Being hit by Wrecking Blow after Cloaking.

Alucardo · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Cloak is invisibility not invulnerability.

Two random entries from previous patch notes:

Shadow Cloak:
You can no longer be hit by single target attacks while this ability is active. You also can no longer avoid infamy from lockpicking by using this ability.

Shadow Cloak: This ability and its morphs will now correctly cancel an attacker's channel for the following abilities:
Drain Essence and its morphs
Flurry and its morphs
Lightning Staff heavy attacks
Restoration Staff heavy attacks
The summoned Storm Atronach's Zap

This was ZOS fixing bugs with cloak. Looking at these it should be fairly obvious what the intended functionality of this skill is.

Sure, and that sounds fair. But it doesn't say anything about cancelling single target abilities, which is what the OP is implying. What this is mainly to stop is people shooting staves around the place to uncover Nightblades.

LegacyDM · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak has several uses; repositioning yourself in a fight to gain the advantage, or maybe gain a 100% chance critical hit, or a stun, extra damage.. why does it also need to cover you from flaming meteors and basic attacks too? Like I said, Nightblades rely on this skill as a crutch

If Nightblades rely on Cloak as a crutch, then every WB spammer relies on WB as a crutch too.

What? We're talking about avoiding attacks here, not DPS. Pretty sure using WB to avoid a meteor or another WB is a really bad idea

Your missing his point. His point is every class gets a crutch skill. Why is NB singled out and held to a different standard? NB cloak has never worked well and is extremely easy for other classes to counter rendering the skill utterly useless. If you don't know how to counter it thats a L2P issue on your part.

All NBs want is a skill that works most of the time similarly to other class skills. Not something that is countered 95% of the time. NBs have no shield or armor stacking skills/spells like other classes. Is it too much to ask that we get some sort of avoidance skill in place of shield stacking? When sorcs get both shield stacking and an escape that works 100% of the time. People like you have been QQing about avoidance since launch and come next patch this skill has been nerfed into the ground rendering it useless.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

Cloak is invisibility not invulnerability.

Two random entries from previous patch notes:

Shadow Cloak:
You can no longer be hit by single target attacks while this ability is active. You also can no longer avoid infamy from lockpicking by using this ability.

Shadow Cloak: This ability and its morphs will now correctly cancel an attacker's channel for the following abilities:
Drain Essence and its morphs
Flurry and its morphs
Lightning Staff heavy attacks
Restoration Staff heavy attacks
The summoned Storm Atronach's Zap

This was ZOS fixing bugs with cloak. Looking at these it should be fairly obvious what the intended functionality of this skill is.

Sure, and that sounds fair. But it doesn't say anything about cancelling single target abilities, which is what the OP is implying. What this is mainly to stop is people shooting staves around the place to uncover Nightblades.

You might not have noticed that it INTERRUPTS channeled attacks. It's intended to stop attacks against your character that are already in progress like flurry. Also... this is not a skill description that enumerates everything about the skill. These are patch notes with information about aspects of the skill that were fixed.

Mashille · February 2016

"Can no longer be hit by single target attacks" - Patch Notes

Wrecking Blow is single Target, end of discussion.

LegacyDM · February 2016

Digerati wrote: »

If I'm swinging a hammer at a position and you are at that position... does it matter if you used your fairy dust to disappear from my vision? NO. you get hit just the same. Unfortunately, cloak only crutches about 90% of your noskill. 10% will have to come from somewhere... have you tried spamming ambush?

Sure mix Physics with an online magic fantasy game. That argument always holds up well on the forums. *Sarcasm on*

rfennell_ESO · February 2016

Digerati wrote: »

If I'm swinging a hammer at a position and you are at that position... does it matter if you used your fairy dust to disappear from my vision? NO. you get hit just the same. Unfortunately, cloak only crutches about 90% of your noskill. 10% will have to come from somewhere... have you tried spamming ambush?

Yes because spamming wrecking blow is skillful.

Right?

Moonshadow66 · February 2016

It's not just Cloak, it's all kinds of being invisible.

I don't know how often I was seen by enemies (NPCs) after I popped an invisibility pot, also how often I got a bounty while remaining hidden (NOT detected).

They'll never get that one fixed, I bet, it's been sooo long already and reported so often..

AddictionX · February 2016

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak has several uses; repositioning yourself in a fight to gain the advantage, or maybe gain a 100% chance critical hit, or a stun, extra damage.. why does it also need to cover you from flaming meteors and basic attacks too? Like I said, Nightblades rely on this skill as a crutch

If Nightblades rely on Cloak as a crutch, then every WB spammer relies on WB as a crutch too.

As a stamina DK what viable choices do we really have.. we've been hanging on by a thread in viability ....now it might have made that thread thinner.

AddictionX · February 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Cloak has several uses; repositioning yourself in a fight to gain the advantage, or maybe gain a 100% chance critical hit, or a stun, extra damage.. why does it also need to cover you from flaming meteors and basic attacks too? Like I said, Nightblades rely on this skill as a crutch

Have you played a NB? Try using it to re-positioning when everyone rocks AOE on their bar or quaffs detect invis pots. When the next patch goes live this skill will become utterly useless as a resposition due to magelight and major movement decrease changes.

Why does it also need to cover you from meteros and attacks? Um cause the NB class gets no class shields. and apparently with all the anti-cloak changes no escape either.

What is the point of this skill if it can't negate attacks, or be used as an escape? Your argument that it can still be used for 100% crit is weak since crits can be blocked by shields and or mitigated with impenetrable or CPs. Its a wasted slot at that point when I could just slot another attack skill for extra damage.

I find it ironic that your complaint of cloak is coming from someone who primarily plays/played a sorc. You ranged, shield stacking, damaging dealing, mine laying OP class. Sorcs are the only class that the term glass canon doesn't apply too.

And we get no reflect, just stand there block and wait to eat it.... do you see the irony in this NB? How many have you killed while they just stand there and try to block all of your burst dps...

But your right about one thing... This will be the year of the Sorcs... and i wont be able to do much if they want to cast a meteor that follows me everywhere... just stand there hold block wait for the streak or cc and eat it.

Mashille · February 2016

@AddictionX

"Hanging on by a Thread"

I play my Stam DK all the time in Cyrodiil and it plays pretty damn well.

Low Slash is good, Puncture is good, in conjunction with Searing Strike Dps can get pretty high.

There are other options to spamming wrecking blow.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

@Alucardo i know you hate steal and you might be a bit biased to it.
the changes to cloak and buff to magelight i hate no problem with them. heck even i think it was a bit strange you cloak cloak even when you were 3cm from someone in his face. this change means the we probably have to dogderoll away before we can cloak effectively which is a good thing. but if you cloak away from a charged attack you should be able to dodge it though. to bad the OP didn't make a video on it so we can have both a less biased opinion on this fact. Let's be fair because cloak is the core of the NB and the only defensive manouver they have. do i think it's stange it has a passive in the tree which also gives the user defensive bonus. that's also a bit strange. Cloak was doing to mutch but it should be able to dodge a crutch situation, that's why it's there otherwise you remove the core of the NB.

Digerati · February 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

If I'm swinging a hammer at a position and you are at that position... does it matter if you used your fairy dust to disappear from my vision? NO. you get hit just the same. Unfortunately, cloak only crutches about 90% of your noskill. 10% will have to come from somewhere... have you tried spamming ambush?

Yes because spamming wrecking blow is skillful.

Right?

I wouldn't say that... But I will say that cloak is the crutchiest crutch in the game.

rfennell_ESO · February 2016

The real problem with Wrecking blow is how it hits when it shouldn't hit.

Right through a well timed cloak? Yep.

When you are dodging? Yep.

When you have outplayed your opponent moved behind them and they are facing the other direction? Yep.

Through walls, stairs and things it shouldn't connect through? Yep.

When you moved 20 meters away from the WB spammer? Still hits you.

It's broken or being exploited somehow.

I've been hit with when the WB spammer is on the catwalk at a keep and I jumped off and am on ground and WB spammer is still on the catwalk.

LegacyDM · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

@Alucardo i know you hate steal and you might be a bit biased to it.
the changes to cloak and buff to magelight i hate no problem with them. heck even i think it was a bit strange you cloak cloak even when you were 3cm from someone in his face. this change means the we probably have to dogderoll away before we can cloak effectively which is a good thing. but if you cloak away from a charged attack you should be able to dodge it though. to bad the OP didn't make a video on it so we can have both a less biased opinion on this fact. Let's be fair because cloak is the core of the NB and the only defensive manouver they have. do i think it's stange it has a passive in the tree which also gives the user defensive bonus. that's also a bit strange. Cloak was doing to mutch but it should be able to dodge a crutch situation, that's why it's there otherwise you remove the core of the NB.

There have been multiple videos on this since launch. Nothing new. OP is bringing up something has been discussed before but never really fixed.

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@AddictionX

"Hanging on by a Thread"

I play my Stam DK all the time in Cyrodiil and it plays pretty damn well.

Low Slash is good, Puncture is good, in conjunction with Searing Strike Dps can get pretty high.

There are other options to spamming wrecking blow.

you mentioned one other weapon than the 2h, besides you wont be able to reverb bash your way out of things anymore...

major mending gets hit by 5 percent,
there is a cp for physical damage mitigation but we never stacked damage and had high survivability at the same time.

I use the DoTs but really only 1 is viable....

just because you looked at some people play it and used the same skills doesnt mean you understand why they fare the way they do... cause you would agree with me if you did... or propose a better argument.

LegacyDM · February 2016

Digerati wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

If I'm swinging a hammer at a position and you are at that position... does it matter if you used your fairy dust to disappear from my vision? NO. you get hit just the same. Unfortunately, cloak only crutches about 90% of your noskill. 10% will have to come from somewhere... have you tried spamming ambush?

Yes because spamming wrecking blow is skillful.

Right?

I wouldn't say that... But I will say that cloak is the crutchiest crutch in the game.

Whatever. I think Streak is crutch. I think WB is crutch. I think BOL is crutch. I think reflective scales is crutch. I think Magic Harness is crutch. Crystal Frags is crutch. I could go on and on. And your complaining about a skill that is countered 95% of the time?!

Mashille · February 2016

@AddictionX

"You mentioned 1 other weapon than the 2H"

Yeah because there are 100's of Melee Stamina Weapons.

"You wont be able to reverb bash your way out of things anymore"

What does that even mean and how is it relevant to the topic of how you stated "what viable choices do we really have" so I suggested some. Yet you seem to disregard them because you use Wrecking Blow.

"just because you looked at some people play it and used the same skills means you understand why they fare the way they do... cause you would agree with me if you did..."

Wait.. What? Play what? Fare how what?

LegacyDM · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@AddictionX

"Hanging on by a Thread"

I play my Stam DK all the time in Cyrodiil and it plays pretty damn well.

Low Slash is good, Puncture is good, in conjunction with Searing Strike Dps can get pretty high.

There are other options to spamming wrecking blow.

Your right. Because most people play WB because its an instant I-win button with no skill as opposed to your method which requires work and skill.

LegacyDM · February 2016

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

The real problem with Wrecking blow is how it hits when it shouldn't hit.

Right through a well timed cloak? Yep.

When you are dodging? Yep.

When you have outplayed your opponent moved behind them and they are facing the other direction? Yep.

Through walls, stairs and things it shouldn't connect through? Yep.

When you moved 20 meters away from the WB spammer? Still hits you.

It's broken or being exploited somehow.

I've been hit with when the WB spammer is on the catwalk at a keep and I jumped off and am on ground and WB spammer is still on the catwalk.

^^^^^ This.

The WB crowd always says L2P! Just dodge roll! or walk through it. Lol, the damn skill has a hard lock when cast. If your a magicka NB you don't have the stamina sustain to dodge roll so guess what. NB use cloak! surprise! But if cloak doesn't work. What is the counter? walk through it? Lol its a hard target lock people.

Mashille · February 2016

@joshdm2001_ESO

Thanks man, I dislike wrecking blow as it feels so sluggish. I like moving, rolling etc.

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@AddictionX

"You mentioned 1 other weapon than the 2H"

Yeah because there are 100's of Melee Stamina Weapons.

"You wont be able to reverb bash your way out of things anymore"

What does that even mean and how is it relevant to the topic of how you stated "what viable choices do we really have" so I suggested some. Yet you seem to disregard them because you use Wrecking Blow.

"just because you looked at some people play it and used the same skills means you understand why they fare the way they do... cause you would agree with me if you did..."

Wait.. What? Play what? Fare how what?

Ok let me take the time to spell it out for you, there is the dual wield, Sword and board, 2 handed, bow.... sorry that isnt 100 and currently how do you use the bow with out using a secondary weapon? or Dual wield in the same boat. The only two are 2h and SnB ... 2h cause of rally, wb, gap closer, and execute. SnB cause of ransack cancel into what you said before and>

Reverb bash did this... the fact that you did not know I was speaking of this means you played on your DK but didn't try everything which leads me to believe you have not really tried the other weapons and see them for what they can do. Its relevant because I said we're just barely viable. A few skills keeping us afloat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9BdN30KOLQ

Assuming i disregard them cause i use WB is an ignorant statement.

We use and cycled almost every non class ability to make us viable... and each one has a valuable use on a stamina DK we run very tight bars. Part of which helps us get through the sorc shields is the reflect, part of what helps us kill a NB is the burst heal and anti snare ability of shuffle, to include the petrify hard cc to stop the bursting and drain the stamina.

We run vigor even though it was probably intended for group heals, found it to synergize with igneous and rally to give us some survivability but if we want to dps we're stuck going 2h... due to WB. Not everyone wants to play with a SnB and be a tank you know.

What i am saying is having played stamina DK you would know our strengths and weaknesses you would know we supplement those with all of the skills and potions made available. SnB to me is so unsatisfying... Also let me know if you ever won a fight against a good NB, Sorc with out using your ultimate while they can end us with out even touching theirs due to their own burst damage capabilities. We cannot keep wings up forever on a sorc... we had to sit there and use detect pots for a NB or an AoE to counter the cloak and even then a good NB will reset the battle 10 times.

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO

Thanks man, I dislike wrecking blow as it feels so sluggish. I like moving, rolling etc.

Also I like how as soon as I proved AddictionX wrong he stopped replying XD

Oh i didnt stop replying my friend im only getting started. You have to give me some time to explain things to you as you have a hard time understanding.

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO

Thanks man, I dislike wrecking blow as it feels so sluggish. I like moving, rolling etc.

if you want to duel me i can show you i can roll and move alot better than a sword and board user. Hope you're not EP. I have 2 meters on your SnB skills except for the one that matters which is reverb bash... I'm pretty hard to hit and reach.

Also im starting to think that your part of the "hipster" crowd ... too good for some weapons ... when they're only ... weapons lol

Mashille · February 2016

@AddictionX

Why do you use the word "we" as if you are talking on behalf of all Stamina DK's. I don't even have Vigor on my Stam DK yet as I haven't got the Alliance Rank on that toon yet.

I do use reverberating Bash yet have not seen that roll dodge bug happen before and have tried all Stamina weapons to find effective combinations. So I'm afraid you 'Believe' wrong, I have used all the weapons and skills on all classes, I have over 1200 Hours in the game and have played it since closed Beta.

At the Moment I use S&B and 2H. I however do not use 2H offensively, it holds my execute and my buffs. You are arguing towards using Wrecking Blow, which shows you enjoy using it and like it being able to be exploited so you come up with a variety of excuses and reasons justifying your use of the skill. I do not hate the skill, people use it and some don't. The way you word your statements about how you must use WB makes it out as if Stamina DK's are useless and it takes forever to find something viable for them unless you use WB.

Anyway, you are deviating from the point of the post, which is showing how Wrecking Blow has an issue that needs fixing.

Mashille · February 2016

@AddictionX

Also please explain what this sentence means: "just because you looked at some people play it and used the same skills doesnt mean you understand why they fare the way they do... cause you would agree with me if you did... or propose a better argument."

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@AddictionX

Why do you use the word "we" as if you are talking on behalf of all Stamina DK's. I don't even have Vigor on my Stam DK yet as I haven't got the Alliance Rank on that toon yet.

I do use reverberating Bash yet have not seen that roll dodge bug happen before and have tried all Stamina weapons to find effective combinations. So I'm afraid you 'Believe' wrong, I have used all the weapons and skills on all classes, I have over 1200 Hours in the game and have played it since closed Beta.

At the Moment I use S&B and 2H. I however do not use 2H offensively, it holds my execute and my buffs. You are arguing towards using Wrecking Blow, which shows you enjoy using it and like it being able to be exploited so you come up with a variety of excuses and reasons justifying your use of the skill. I do not hate the skill, people use it and some don't. The way you word your statements about how you must use WB makes it out as if Stamina DK's are useless and it takes forever to find something viable for them unless you use WB.

Anyway, you are deviating from the point of the post, which is showing how Wrecking Blow has an issue that needs fixing.

Cool I never understood why people pull out the closed beta card like if it had something to do ... with something... other than you played it ... great good for you..

You understand alot of us have played mmo's for 15 plus years... so if you want to bring out that card... I have played more mmo's than i can count, more hours than i dare count, yet it has no purpose of it being mentioned... other than a way to justify yourself some how... I also played for a while during beta, but back to the post like you said.

You never experienced it? Its a well known bug, included on the pts i can quote it for you if you want.

LegacyDM · February 2016

AddictionX wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO

Thanks man, I dislike wrecking blow as it feels so sluggish. I like moving, rolling etc.

if you want to duel me i can show you i can roll and move alot better than a sword and board user. Hope you're not EP. I have 2 meters on your SnB skills except for the one that matters which is reverb bash... I'm pretty hard to hit and reach.

Also im starting to think that your part of the "hipster" crowd ... too good for some weapons ... when they're only ... weapons lol

In all fairness. The really really good players in the dueling areas rock sword and board. I've seen the best of the best WB spammers get wrecked by sword and board builds. Now this doesn't carry over into group play. In group play WB spammers just charge and WB spam until their target is dead because many people don't play sword and board tank. WB is much faster game play and more responsive. Which is why way more people use it and it has become much more popular as opposed to sword and board. I stand by my statement that most players rock WB because its an instant I-win button in group play. And it certainly is an instant I-win button with no skill against a magicka NB when cloak doesn't work properly. Which is the point of this thread.

Mashille · February 2016

@AddictionX

No I said how I had played for a long time and have experience to show you that just because you 'Believe' someone has not played or tried many of the weapons because they didn't know about a bug does not mean you are right.

Also what does playing other MMO's have to do with anything.

AddictionX · February 2016

keybaud wrote: »

@AddictionX

Also please explain what this sentence means: "just because you looked at some people play it and used the same skills doesnt mean you understand why they fare the way they do... cause you would agree with me if you did... or propose a better argument."

because everything starts some where, people see some one use it and decide to adopt it on their own skill bars with out really knowing and understanding why they work together other than they work.

AddictionX · February 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

keybaud wrote: »

@joshdm2001_ESO

Thanks man, I dislike wrecking blow as it feels so sluggish. I like moving, rolling etc.

if you want to duel me i can show you i can roll and move alot better than a sword and board user. Hope you're not EP. I have 2 meters on your SnB skills except for the one that matters which is reverb bash... I'm pretty hard to hit and reach.

Also im starting to think that your part of the "hipster" crowd ... too good for some weapons ... when they're only ... weapons lol

In all fairness. The really really good players in the dueling areas rock sword and board. I've seen the best of the best WB spammers get wrecked by sword and board builds. Now this doesn't carry over into group play. In group play WB spammers just charge and WB spam until their target is dead because many people don't play sword and board tank. WB is much faster game play and more responsive. Which is why way more people use it. I stand by my statement that most players rock WB because its an instant I-win button in group play. And it certainly is an instant I-win button with no skill against a magicka NB when cloak doesn't work properly. Which is the point of this thread.

Ofcourse they do because of this that is being fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9BdN30KOLQ