Sorcerers have the new Breath of Life?

UrQuan · February 2016

Some interesting testing by @Tankqull on the PTS shows that Sorcerers now have a stronger version of Breath of Life:

Tankqull wrote: »

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running

conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Technically Twilight Matriarch heals more targets than Breath of Life, but as one of those targets is itself, really it's the same number of targets. Except it's cheaper, and heals the primary target for somewhat more, and the secondary target for way more. The down sides are that you need it on both bars if you plan on weapon swapping, and if the Twilight is killed you have to resummon it before you can use it again. Thoughts?

Drakilian · February 2016

You don't need it on two bars, it's no longer a toggle in Thieves guild is it? (All toggles being removed, I thought)

Spottswoode · February 2016

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it. good heal, barring the fact it's attached to a pet.

Purifying Ritual + BoL still heals more hps. Especially when you throw in the new synergy sets.

UrQuan · February 2016

Drakilian wrote: »

You don't need it on two bars, it's no longer a toggle in Thieves guild is it? (All toggles being removed, I thought)

It's not exactly a toggle anymore, but it kind of still is because if you don't have it on both bars the Twilight still gets desummoned when you weapon swap.

Drakilian · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Drakilian wrote: »

You don't need it on two bars, it's no longer a toggle in Thieves guild is it? (All toggles being removed, I thought)

It's not exactly a toggle anymore, but it kind of still is because if you don't have it on both bars the Twilight still gets desummoned when you weapon swap.

Ohhh that sucks

Spottswoode · February 2016

I can tell you it's definitely NOT an effective self heal in PvP like BoL.

babylon · February 2016

Plus pet isn't going to necessarily be alive at time you need it or be standing in exact right spot when you want to cast the heal.

As well as all the above.

UrQuan · February 2016

Spottswoode wrote: »

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it.

There doesn't appear to be a cooldown to me...

BalticBlues · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Sorcerers now have a stronger version of Breath of Life

I am fine with that, as soon as Templars get a free class change to become Sorcerers.
Templars are a thing of the past - no mobility, low dps, bad shields, expensive healing
Sorcerers now have all the game requires - high mobility, high dps, strong shields, healing

Emma_Overload · February 2016

Before people get too excited, let me tell you that the Twilight dies FAST, and that 1.5 second re-summon is a huge pain.

Firerock2 · February 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Before people get too excited, let me tell you that the Twilight dies FAST, and that 1.5 second re-summon is a huge pain.

You're kidding right? Don't get too excited? So what if there is a summon time, Sorcerers specialize at keeping distance. They will be able to summon a pet in combat with no trouble at all. Now people will have to focus the pet first if they want to stop the sorc from healing on top of getting through a sorc's massive shields. This sorc buff is just a spit in the face to every Templar who hoped there would be some good buffs for them in this upcoming patch.

bikerangelo · February 2016

I understand Templar job security is important, but no, the twilight matriarch heal is not as good as the nerfed BoL heal.

Spottswoode · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it.

There doesn't appear to be a cooldown to me...

It's there. I spent the better part of 3 minutes trying to spam it. Whether it's a global cool down or a cool down on pet special abilities, I'm not sure. I won't be able to test it until I get home.

UrQuan · February 2016

bikerangelo wrote: »

I understand Templar job security is important, but no, the twilight matriarch heal is not as good as the nerfed BoL heal.

The heal itself is better than the BoL heal. There are a couple of downsides to the skill (most importantly the 2 that I mentioned), but the heal itself is better.

UrQuan · February 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Before people get too excited, let me tell you that the Twilight dies FAST, and that 1.5 second re-summon is a huge pain.

You're kidding right? Don't get too excited? So what if there is a summon time, Sorcerers specialize at keeping distance. They will be able to summon a pet in combat with no trouble at all. Now people will have to focus the pet first if they want to stop the sorc from healing on top of getting through a sorc's massive shields. This sorc buff is just a spit in the face to every Templar who hoped there would be some good buffs for them in this upcoming patch.

@Emma_Eunjung is right, though. I imagine in PVP the Twilight would get targeted and slaughtered really fast, and in PVE it's going to die easily to certain boss mechanics, or to mobs if you're not careful. That's the big down side. The big up side is that it actually is now a better heal than BoL.

UrQuan · February 2016

Spottswoode wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it.

There doesn't appear to be a cooldown to me...

It's there. I spent the better part of 3 minutes trying to spam it. Whether it's a global cool down or a cool down on pet special abilities, I'm not sure. I won't be able to test it until I get home.

That's odd, because I was just testing it and I was able to spam it just as quickly as I can spam BoL. I was testing without weaving, mind you. Just casting it over and over, with one cast coming immediately after the previous.

found1779 · February 2016

All I can simply say to this is suck it zos this type of move does nothing for stamina sorcerers why the hell did you all only make magicka changes to this class you all are horrible to the stamina sorcerer class

Firerock2 · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Before people get too excited, let me tell you that the Twilight dies FAST, and that 1.5 second re-summon is a huge pain.

You're kidding right? Don't get too excited? So what if there is a summon time, Sorcerers specialize at keeping distance. They will be able to summon a pet in combat with no trouble at all. Now people will have to focus the pet first if they want to stop the sorc from healing on top of getting through a sorc's massive shields. This sorc buff is just a spit in the face to every Templar who hoped there would be some good buffs for them in this upcoming patch.

@Emma_Eunjung is right, though. I imagine in PVP the Twilight would get targeted and slaughtered really fast, and in PVE it's going to die easily to certain boss mechanics, or to mobs if you're not careful. That's the big down side. The big up side is that it actually is now a better heal than BoL.

Yes and it's one more line of defense now for Sorcerers who already have insane shields. Even if it dies fast people will still have to focus on it rather than the Sorc and in that time the Sorcerer could streak to a distance where they could just re summon it.

Spottswoode · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it.

There doesn't appear to be a cooldown to me...

It's there. I spent the better part of 3 minutes trying to spam it. Whether it's a global cool down or a cool down on pet special abilities, I'm not sure. I won't be able to test it until I get home.

That's odd, because I was just testing it and I was able to spam it just as quickly as I can spam BoL. I was testing without weaving, mind you. Just casting it over and over, with one cast coming immediately after the previous.

Hmm....I'll get back to you on this. I was in the middle of PvP, so the pet attacking my prevent repeated casting.

Bromburak · February 2016

A 4 second cast time is not acceptable for an active healer role.
Until the heal kicks in, it could be to late and being dependent of something
like a pet is a bad advice for wasting slots in raiding or PvP.

UrQuan · February 2016

Spottswoode wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

It's nowhere near as spammable as it has a cool down attached to it.

There doesn't appear to be a cooldown to me...

It's there. I spent the better part of 3 minutes trying to spam it. Whether it's a global cool down or a cool down on pet special abilities, I'm not sure. I won't be able to test it until I get home.

That's odd, because I was just testing it and I was able to spam it just as quickly as I can spam BoL. I was testing without weaving, mind you. Just casting it over and over, with one cast coming immediately after the previous.

Hmm....I'll get back to you on this. I was in the middle of PvP, so the pet attacking my prevent repeated casting.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. Yes, that's definitely a possibility. If the Twilight attacking prevents the heal from always being instantly cast, then that's a significant downside to it.

UrQuan · February 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

A 4 second cast time is not acceptable for an active healer role.
Until the heal kicks in, it could be to late and being dependent of something
like a pet is a bad advice for wasting slots in raiding or PvP.

It's not a 4 second cast time - the heal is instant. There's a cast time to summon the Twilight and a cast time to desummon it.

Bromburak · February 2016

As I said, then you need to waste 1 slot on each bar = 2

You want to stay flexible especially when raiding or in PvP and if you switch weapons you would have to recast and that means 4 seconds. Imo a bad advice for healing a group.

However some "Sorc Tanks" used it a while for some self heals because passive Synergies are not to bad for a tanky Sorc. But as long Expert Summoner and Daedric Protection don't get some love for groups, I would never waste 2 slots as a healer in groups.

Imo its very important to look at slot setups and passives between classes and not just one single skill.

UrQuan · February 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

As I said, then you need to waste 1 slot on each bar = 2

You want to stay flexible especially when raiding or in PvP and if you switch weapons you would have to recast and that means 4 seconds. Imo a bad advice for healing a group.

However some "Sorc Tanks" used it for some extra heal because passive Synergies are not to bad for full tank builds a while.
But as long Expert Summoner and Daedric Protection don't get some love for groups, I would never waste 2 slots as a healer.

Your logic is twisted. It's still essentially a toggle, and like all toggles it requires 2 slots - nobody ever takes a toggle without putting it on each bar (because that would be stupid). You either put it on both bars or you don't take it at all. That doesn't equate to a 4 second cast time on the heal.

found1779 · February 2016

Who cares this doesn't help stamina sorcerers as far as I'm concerned magicka sorcerers were already fine the way they was stamina sorcerers have no were as Near as many options as magicka ones do with there own abilities anyways

Islyn · February 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Some interesting testing by @Tankqull on the PTS shows that Sorcerers now have a stronger version of Breath of Life:

Tankqull wrote: »

small test on the PTS:
highelf sorc and templar, 64points into magica, 100points into blessing
equip: molagkena light armor helm + vicous death + willpower + mealstorm resto staff for both (1 slot unequiped)
skills: all class passivs nothing else, on the QB nothing but the two tested abilities no buffs running

conclusion:
matriarch heals much more do to lacking the 50% reduction on the secondary healed person, is cheaper, and (regarding the craptastic equipment) is still stronger on the primary healed target...

Technically Twilight Matriarch heals more targets than Breath of Life, but as one of those targets is itself, really it's the same number of targets. Except it's cheaper, and heals the primary target for somewhat more, and the secondary target for way more. The down sides are that you need it on both bars if you plan on weapon swapping, and if the Twilight is killed you have to resummon it before you can use it again. Thoughts?

Seems Legit (are you fkn KIDDING ME??)

Bromburak · February 2016

Your logic is twisted. It's still essentially a toggle, and like all toggles it requires 2 slots - nobody ever takes a toggle without putting it on each bar (because that would be stupid). You either put it on both bars or you don't take it at all.

Not true, a good example would be magelight for stealth detection.
A Stealth hunter for example just wants to find his targets now and quickly , to use gtaoe, single opening or mark the target. In this case one slot is fine.

Toggle always depends on situation and use case and not whats more comfy for a casual ...

UrQuan wrote: »

That doesn't equate to a 4 second cast time on the heal.

So you agree that you need to waste 2 slots for using twilight properly. Great, then we can continue with the healing discussion.

Talking about a "new breath of life" is not the case.

You need to waste 2 slots for a heal setup while your passives for groups are highly questionable as a sorc.
You might want to have a look at Daedric Protection and Summon Expert and then compare this to Mending and Focused Healing, then we talk about efficient heal roles instead silly work arounds.

Tankqull · February 2016

babylon wrote: »

Plus pet isn't going to necessarily be alive at time you need it or be standing in exact right spot when you want to cast the heal.

As well as all the above.

the pet position is not determing the spell center its the sorc itsself.

Tankqull · February 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

Your logic is twisted. It's still essentially a toggle, and like all toggles it requires 2 slots - nobody ever takes a toggle without putting it on each bar (because that would be stupid). You either put it on both bars or you don't take it at all.

Not true, a good example would be magelight for stealth detection.
A Stealth hunter for example just wants to find his targets now and quickly , to use gtaoe, single opening or mark the target. In this case one slot is fine.

Toggle always depends on situation and use case and not whats more comfy for a casual ...

UrQuan wrote: »

That doesn't equate to a 4 second cast time on the heal.

So you agree that you need to waste 2 slots for using twilight properly. Great, then we can continue with the healing discussion.

Talking about a "new breath of life" is not the case.

You need to waste 2 slots for a heal setup while your passives for groups are highly questionable as a sorc.
You might want to have a look at Daedric Protection and Summon Expert and then compare this to Mending and Focused Healing, then we talk about efficient heal roles instead silly work arounds.

one of the downsides of being a healer is to have your main heal on both bars as having to switch back to the other bar will or better does kill your groupmembers.

Husan · February 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

Your logic is twisted. It's still essentially a toggle, and like all toggles it requires 2 slots - nobody ever takes a toggle without putting it on each bar (because that would be stupid). You either put it on both bars or you don't take it at all.

Not true, a good example would be magelight for stealth detection.
A Stealth hunter for example just wants to find his targets now and quickly , to use gtaoe, single opening or mark the target. In this case one slot is fine.

Toggle always depends on situation and use case and not whats more comfy for a casual ...

UrQuan wrote: »

That doesn't equate to a 4 second cast time on the heal.

So you agree that you need to waste 2 slots for using twilight properly. Great, then we can continue with the healing discussion.

Talking about a "new breath of life" is not the case.

You need to waste 2 slots for a heal setup while your passives for groups are highly questionable as a sorc.
You might want to have a look at Daedric Protection and Summon Expert and then compare this to Mending and Focused Healing, then we talk about efficient heal roles instead silly work arounds.

one of the downsides of being a healer is to have your main heal on both bars as having to switch back to the other bar will or better does kill your groupmembers.

This. I usually double slotted breath of life when I was healing dungeons.

Robo_Hobo · February 2016

Me and my suicidal healing Clannfear were getting so close, too...although I'm not sure if I'll drop him for this yet, I love using him as my tank for everything.