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THE PATCH NOTES
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Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I have 2 rings and a neck, plus two swords and even a shield I'm not using. The jewelry seems to always be arcane, but the armor/weapons come in random traits (though I haven't seen a single piece of sturdy/well-fitted).These changes aren't random. Its targeted destruction of group play...........It is ZoS orienting thier game. I don't doubt certain people are going to be very happy about it. I hate it though.
@Satiar I agree - the social aspect of group play (such as doing a shot every time Sarenvog swears) is the most fun that a lot of us have. Since the last major patch, @Lightingale only comes on to play for a few hours during "Drunk Victorem Raid Night" as the rest of the time it's not as much fun. For me, while it is entertaining running 2-6 person groups for a couple hours, it gets old very quickly without the bantering among the groups of 15 odd old timers who have all been friends for years. You can't do that when multiple groups are making different calls and both need battle comms in the same TS channel.
That's what's frustrating to me. There are so many games that cater to small teams, little elite groups of 4-8. There are so few quality games like this where you can have a big team.
This patch, I get the picture. ZoS doesn't want big groups. Message received, not welcome. Ok. It's sickening, though. There are so few games that had the promise this one did, and to me this really feels like the end as far as large group gameplay. I don't doubt I'll stick around for a while, but the moment CU beta drops or hell BDO, I'm done. Time to find a game that actually wants me in it.
As far as I'm concerned, they are so tangled up in amateur coding and lag problems they can't fix they've decided to turn on the player base they advertised to in the first place in a last ditch effort to make thier game halfway playable. And to all the players like me that hung on and convinced their guild and friends to hope for an eventual light at the end of the tunnel...well, there's the door. Goddammit
I sympathize with this line of thinking more than people may think I do. However, I don't necessarily see it the same way. IMO there's nothing in this patch that says don't play as a large group. All I see is them telling us not to pack everyone into super tight balls. The only issue I have is one you've brought up before, and that's assaulting defended keeps. The camp radius is so small it won't reach the outer wall of the keep from a resource. The only people who will be able to use camps are defenders which is a huge advantage to the players that already have the advantage of defending. Disregarding that though, I want to see how it will work. All these new sets work just as well for the people attacking a keep as they do the people defending. I'm sure there's something that can be done about it, but just the camp issue for me is enough to make me not siege any keeps anymore.
Rings only come in blue in the RftW tho, right? I guess its still worth it but its going to look ugly on my char sheet
You can get epic versions if you're lucky. I sincerely hope they add these sets to the elite gear vendor, and update all of the sets that vendor sells to V16 also. Maybe add another vendor that sells legendary jewelry specifically for a higher price. If not, only way to get legendary jewelry would be the end of campaign rewards. If the vendor doesn't sell these pieces I'll be pretty ticked off. At least put it in random bags we can buy rofl.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These changes aren't random. Its targeted destruction of group play...........It is ZoS orienting thier game. I don't doubt certain people are going to be very happy about it. I hate it though.
@Satiar I agree - the social aspect of group play (such as doing a shot every time Sarenvog swears) is the most fun that a lot of us have. Since the last major patch, @Lightingale only comes on to play for a few hours during "Drunk Victorem Raid Night" as the rest of the time it's not as much fun. For me, while it is entertaining running 2-6 person groups for a couple hours, it gets old very quickly without the bantering among the groups of 15 odd old timers who have all been friends for years. You can't do that when multiple groups are making different calls and both need battle comms in the same TS channel.
That's what's frustrating to me. There are so many games that cater to small teams, little elite groups of 4-8. There are so few quality games like this where you can have a big team.
This patch, I get the picture. ZoS doesn't want big groups. Message received, not welcome. Ok. It's sickening, though. There are so few games that had the promise this one did, and to me this really feels like the end as far as large group gameplay. I don't doubt I'll stick around for a while, but the moment CU beta drops or hell BDO, I'm done. Time to find a game that actually wants me in it.
As far as I'm concerned, they are so tangled up in amateur coding and lag problems they can't fix they've decided to turn on the player base they advertised to in the first place in a last ditch effort to make thier game halfway playable. And to all the players like me that hung on and convinced their guild and friends to hope for an eventual light at the end of the tunnel...well, there's the door. Goddammit
Rofl....
You think CU is going to cater to your large group?
.......
First of all..The game is going to end up with around 6-8 people as its group cap
Second of all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI250gU4Ct8
yea...don't get your hopes up on that.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭This patch will be the renaissance of the Night-cap and PvDooring, since the ability to take a keep against resistance will be dramatically reduced.
Not to mention the vulnerability to Fasalle's Guise and a prox/bat bomb once you finally fight your way inside the inner and try to take flags.V Є H Є M Є И C Є
Revenge of the Bear
ØMNI
Solongandthanksforallthef
Revenge of the Hist
Revenge of the Deer
Remember the Great Burn of of the Blackwater War!
#FreeArgonia0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »God those oil cats are going to be stupid OP.
Unpurgable snare with stamina damage...
I think it will still be purgable, unless I missed something.
Overall the changes aren't bad. Back to the magicka meta, thank god.
@WRX They previously said they were making siege unpurgable, but I don't see it in the patch notes so they must've not gone through with that idea.
Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
WRX✭✭✭✭✭RadioheadSh0t wrote: »RadioheadSh0t wrote: »God those oil cats are going to be stupid OP.
Unpurgable snare with stamina damage...
I think it will still be purgable, unless I missed something.
Overall the changes aren't bad. Back to the magicka meta, thank god.
@WRX They previously said they were making siege unpurgable, but I don't see it in the patch notes so they must've not gone through with that idea.
In the patch note sections Gina put it was still purgable.
Crisis averted.Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB1 -
Crown✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
PvP Guides @ DarkElves.com3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
The main nerf to cloak is the incredible buff to the Magelight line.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
In anticipation of the increased value of AP, there has already been a noticeable reduction in siege and repair contributions.
Please consider adding a PVP reward currency with which players can purchase reward items such as armor, weapon and jewelry sets with. This would allow us to use AP exclusively for siege, repair and other utility items and still be rewarded for our efforts in the Alliance War.Edited by zyk on February 5, 2016 8:29AM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
Absorb Magic + healing.
Agreed on slightly reducing meteor dmg if its too op.
Was knock back removed from it? I can't remember.
*edit: had a half-thought up response that I left in my draft Edited by Minno on February 5, 2016 2:55PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
I haven't played the Pts but Minno is and he claims cloak is breaking A LOT. That certainly doesn't indicate it's a buff.0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What bothers me is the fact that anyone in an enemy group could spam mage light and make it completely impossible for me to even use cloak.
Before the change Mage Light user were able to see me, but now it´s them AND everyone else.
I can´t even use it between my rotations to stun people since it´s grayed out.
It´s worse than mark and on top of that available to everyone.
Zenimax want me to switch to the 24/7 shield spam group.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What bothers me is the fact that anyone in an enemy group could spam mage light and make it completely impossible for me to even use cloak.
Before the change Mage Light user were able to see me, but now it´s them AND everyone else.
I can´t even use it between my rotations to stun people since it´s grayed out.
It´s worse than mark and on top of that available to everyone.
Zenimax want me to switch to the 24/7 shield spam group.
Good point. It should reveal you to the caster not to everyone and on top permit use of cloak - does not make sense.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
God_flakes✭✭✭✭✭
✭Right. Making it even easier for pain trains of 20 people to mow down one nightblade. Well done, zos.0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can get epic versions if you're lucky. I sincerely hope they add these sets to the elite gear vendor, and update all of the sets that vendor sells to V16 also. Maybe add another vendor that sells legendary jewelry specifically for a higher price. If not, only way to get legendary jewelry would be the end of campaign rewards. If the vendor doesn't sell these pieces I'll be pretty ticked off. At least put it in random bags we can buy rofl.
I was able to buy an epic version of the amulets from the new vendor. It appears that the vendor changes every day -- yesterday I could purchase the Vicious gloves rather than the amulet.
Haven't seen the rings apear in the vendor yet -- but if you have received them from RftW mails then I'm optimistic that you'll be able to buy them at some point.
Prices were 200k AP, btw.1 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »Of course I understand it's implication in group play.Joy_Division wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Still no help for Templars, more like nerfs. As a long time Templar I honestly prefer the knock back to sweeps rather than a snare. I also liked purifying projectiles too, didn't see the issue with it. And why is blazing shield scaled off health? BOL got nerfed too but who didn't see that coming. The only buff is to flare which didn't need it though I'm pretty sure there will be nerf threads coming for it.
Currently templars are doing the best at doing on the PTS. Mag dk is excellent too, just a lot different than since I played last.
That was said in 1.6. Offensively they are better but purify was huge for their defense and that's gone with nothing to replace it.
The purify change will take a lot of getting used to. At least in 1v1 from my perspective we're able to deal with a lot of incoming damage really well though still. We'll see how it affects group play soon probably. IMO Templar healers are going to change quite a bit this patch, but probably be even more effective. Thanks for all of the complaining everyone
My take so far is that our normal way to deal with dmg will change slightly. DOTs now a deal breaker in fights, but templars can still purge. Removal of NB purge means they must rely on a Templar or use expensive alliance war skill, or use CP to compensate.
I can see a few morphs of skills no one used before will make a comeback or be used.
All things said, I think we may have a viable patch in terms of overall balance. Might need some tweaking prior to Dark Brotherhood, but it seems viable.
Some of the reflect changes might mean a return to builds that incorporate all stats. Could be Zose's way of forcing hybridization and eventually more gear choices once we see which sets are now vr16 to confirm.
This ASSUMES NB's want a Templar up their buttocks constantly. Part of the fun of playing a NB is the solo aspect of it, the creeping and hiding in the shadows. So now Nb's are required to stick close to a Templar to get dat dot purge? Come on. This is stupid beyond belief. This whole patch appears to me to be nothing more than more encouraged large group or medium size group play. Not less. We asked for help making smaller or solo more viable. Not more dependent on zergs and heal balls. I predict a mass exodus from the game after this patch, to add to the already slow bleed of players from the game.
Or you can slot purge or keep dark cloak up until the DoT is gone, and you get a 8% damage mitigation buff for 5 seconds after you become invisible.
I certainly can slot purge. I don't like purge for many reasons, it's noisy (petty I know) and it takes up valuable slots from my preferred game play style. Limited slots, yanno? In all reality I would probably have to swap mass hysteria out for it-which is the best cc for magblades. I think given NB limited defenses they need to leave cloak alone. Allowing it to purge wasn't affecting a darn thing.
But its okay for non nbs to have to slot caltrops or magelight to counter nbs?5 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haha, anyone who thinks fights are going to be like they were in the past is nuts. If you run in a guild group ball, you are going to fall really really fast.
Staying tight and stacking resto heals, is immediate death. 2 Nightblades could easily burst a 20 man group with proxy,bats,sap. Throw in that set for gravy. I think there will be moments where its necessary to get close together, like flags and such, but even then most people will have to be dead and the people on flags will need stuff like rite of passage, novas, veils, mamga, etc.
@Darnathian Dk's are doing a wholeee lot better. First is dots actually affecting shielded and blocking targets, and dots being a lot more difficult to remove. Second is the burning embers heal. Burning embers with igneous and fiery breath is almost a full burst heal if you can get them all chained together. Much like rally.
Just from dots alone, over 10 seconds you do 25k+ damage to a person plus whips and dawnbreaker and proxy. In group play, igneous opens up a bar spot for everyone if they so choose. Banner is cheaper, and inhale hits 6 targets for a really good tanking skill. Overall its nice buffs.
EDIT: Empowering chains is also pretty effective, and a good way to not have to break talons.
Ah i likey. Maybe i need to equip my main mag dk crafter soon. ty for response.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haha, anyone who thinks fights are going to be like they were in the past is nuts. If you run in a guild group ball, you are going to fall really really fast.
Staying tight and stacking resto heals, is immediate death. 2 Nightblades could easily burst a 20 man group with proxy,bats,sap. Throw in that set for gravy. I think there will be moments where its necessary to get close together, like flags and such, but even then most people will have to be dead and the people on flags will need stuff like rite of passage, novas, veils, mamga, etc.
@Darnathian Dk's are doing a wholeee lot better. First is dots actually affecting shielded and blocking targets, and dots being a lot more difficult to remove. Second is the burning embers heal. Burning embers with igneous and fiery breath is almost a full burst heal if you can get them all chained together. Much like rally.
Just from dots alone, over 10 seconds you do 25k+ damage to a person plus whips and dawnbreaker and proxy. In group play, igneous opens up a bar spot for everyone if they so choose. Banner is cheaper, and inhale hits 6 targets for a really good tanking skill. Overall its nice buffs.
EDIT: Empowering chains is also pretty effective, and a good way to not have to break talons.
No argument from me.
These changes aren't random. Its targeted destruction of group play.
1. Remove mitigation: barriers, breath of life nerf.
2. Remove group support: Purge nerf, retreating maneuvers nerf.
3. Buff AOE damage to crazy amounts: insane Prox Det buff, that new 15k AOE on death set.
4. Lower AP requirements for prox det so everyone can use it
5. Buff siege as the cherry on top
It is ZoS orienting thier game. I don't doubt certain people are going to be very happy about it. I hate it though. Group play has been the only thing that kept me going in this game once solo/duo/4man got old.
I can't believe I may be going magica for the first time since 1.2. Prox and all that goes with it going to be insane.
It is fairly obvious where these changes came from. Contrats 1v xers. you win. enjoy your streams with no one to 1vx on. Seriously great job convincing Zos to change thier game from massive rvrvr massive battles.
Ap changes, siege, etc. So funny. Might as well change group size as well. make it 6.1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭God_flakes wrote: »
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
I haven't played the Pts but Minno is and he claims cloak is breaking A LOT. That certainly doesn't indicate it's a buff.
because of:What bothers me is the fact that anyone in an enemy group could spam mage light and make it completely impossible for me to even use cloak.
Before the change Mage Light user were able to see me, but now it´s them AND everyone else.
I can´t even use it between my rotations to stun people since it´s grayed out.
It´s worse than mark and on top of that available to everyone.
Zenimax want me to switch to the 24/7 shield spam group.
NB's still have crazy damage and sustain, but the no cloak thing is gimping them hard from the duels I've had. I've noticed a few moving to shield stack and it making a huge difference like you say. I don't think magelight/inner light should have this bonus. It should just be a radiant thing. I'd rather the active effect from inner light be something that boosts damage or defenses in general.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭God_flakes wrote: »
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
I haven't played the Pts but Minno is and he claims cloak is breaking A LOT. That certainly doesn't indicate it's a buff.
Havent plYed the pts yet? Nice. This is why when zos listens to plaYers and mKe changes and they havent even done testing, we end up with this balancing we have now. Nice. Prime example there. And you keep claiming mag nb dead. Lol. Keep it up bud. Your helping a lot. /sarcasm0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Darnathian wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »God_flakes wrote: »Of course I understand it's implication in group play.Joy_Division wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »Still no help for Templars, more like nerfs. As a long time Templar I honestly prefer the knock back to sweeps rather than a snare. I also liked purifying projectiles too, didn't see the issue with it. And why is blazing shield scaled off health? BOL got nerfed too but who didn't see that coming. The only buff is to flare which didn't need it though I'm pretty sure there will be nerf threads coming for it.
Currently templars are doing the best at doing on the PTS. Mag dk is excellent too, just a lot different than since I played last.
That was said in 1.6. Offensively they are better but purify was huge for their defense and that's gone with nothing to replace it.
The purify change will take a lot of getting used to. At least in 1v1 from my perspective we're able to deal with a lot of incoming damage really well though still. We'll see how it affects group play soon probably. IMO Templar healers are going to change quite a bit this patch, but probably be even more effective. Thanks for all of the complaining everyone
My take so far is that our normal way to deal with dmg will change slightly. DOTs now a deal breaker in fights, but templars can still purge. Removal of NB purge means they must rely on a Templar or use expensive alliance war skill, or use CP to compensate.
I can see a few morphs of skills no one used before will make a comeback or be used.
All things said, I think we may have a viable patch in terms of overall balance. Might need some tweaking prior to Dark Brotherhood, but it seems viable.
Some of the reflect changes might mean a return to builds that incorporate all stats. Could be Zose's way of forcing hybridization and eventually more gear choices once we see which sets are now vr16 to confirm.
This ASSUMES NB's want a Templar up their buttocks constantly. Part of the fun of playing a NB is the solo aspect of it, the creeping and hiding in the shadows. So now Nb's are required to stick close to a Templar to get dat dot purge? Come on. This is stupid beyond belief. This whole patch appears to me to be nothing more than more encouraged large group or medium size group play. Not less. We asked for help making smaller or solo more viable. Not more dependent on zergs and heal balls. I predict a mass exodus from the game after this patch, to add to the already slow bleed of players from the game.
Or you can slot purge or keep dark cloak up until the DoT is gone, and you get a 8% damage mitigation buff for 5 seconds after you become invisible.
I certainly can slot purge. I don't like purge for many reasons, it's noisy (petty I know) and it takes up valuable slots from my preferred game play style. Limited slots, yanno? In all reality I would probably have to swap mass hysteria out for it-which is the best cc for magblades. I think given NB limited defenses they need to leave cloak alone. Allowing it to purge wasn't affecting a darn thing.
But its okay for non nbs to have to slot caltrops or magelight to counter nbs?
I have to slot shield breaker to counter shields.
I have to slot heal debuffs to kill Healers.
I have to slot gap closers to follow sorcs.
You can´t expect to run one build and counter everything with it.
Counters for cloak:
- any AoE
- mage light
- mark
- random breaks
- gap closers much more noticeable since the new patch
- entropy
- burning embers
- detection potion
Cloak is also the only defense which is completely useless in any group fight since the floor is literally caltrops or glowing with red circles.
I mean of course going invisible is strong and hard to balance, but for nightblades who don´t end their fight in less than a split second it´s needed as it´s the only real defense.
Any fight against magicka builds in the upcoming patch are fights without being able to use one of my class defining skills.
How would you feel if shield breaker suddenly removes your shields for all enemies and grays them out on your bar?
While dueling yesterday I fought a stamina build and was suddenly unable to cloak and that simply because someone close to us happened to be a magicka sorc who likes to jump over the whole place casting stuff while doing so.
Not gonna bother with it or cry for a change. Will just jump on the train and use shields like all others. It´s what zos wants me to do anyway.
At least i can lean back and enjoy the upcoming Magicka DK QQ. It´s gonna be hilarious.
R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭God_flakes wrote: »
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
I haven't played the Pts but Minno is and he claims cloak is breaking A LOT. That certainly doesn't indicate it's a buff.
because of:What bothers me is the fact that anyone in an enemy group could spam mage light and make it completely impossible for me to even use cloak.
Before the change Mage Light user were able to see me, but now it´s them AND everyone else.
I can´t even use it between my rotations to stun people since it´s grayed out.
It´s worse than mark and on top of that available to everyone.
Zenimax want me to switch to the 24/7 shield spam group.
NB's still have crazy damage and sustain, but the no cloak thing is gimping them hard from the duels I've had. I've noticed a few moving to shield stack and it making a huge difference like you say. I don't think magelight/inner light should have this bonus. It should just be a radiant thing. I'd rather the active effect from inner light be something that boosts damage or defenses in general.
And I noticed NB use cloak to their advantage moving around DK's. Yea I can see them but the ability to negate DOTs is obviously a nice counter to the DK's increased power. They still have good dmg and sustain. But on the pts I saw maybe 3 NB's, one of whom was a stam I fought and died multiple times to; surprise attack is still a beast and as it should be!
I agree inner magelight should not grant the ability to see NB. I'm not sure how that gets recoded, but it should provide extra magicka and spell boost instead of ability to see Nightblades.
Radiant magelight is fine. Could be the issue NB have now is that the invisible mechanic works in that if one person sees you everyone sees you (pve and pvp). For pvp, they should implement a different shade around the NB so that you can see him if you dont have magelight on your bar while someone in your group is using it but make the NB look hazy (like a predator cloak looking graphic).
I would like to see more NB on PTS testing their class out. And not in dueling situations. PTS battles tonight?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭God_flakes wrote: »
I actually see the changes to cloak as a buff, as shadowy (100% crit morph that I used already) now gets immunity to dots while invis.
I haven't played the Pts but Minno is and he claims cloak is breaking A LOT. That certainly doesn't indicate it's a buff.
because of:What bothers me is the fact that anyone in an enemy group could spam mage light and make it completely impossible for me to even use cloak.
Before the change Mage Light user were able to see me, but now it´s them AND everyone else.
I can´t even use it between my rotations to stun people since it´s grayed out.
It´s worse than mark and on top of that available to everyone.
Zenimax want me to switch to the 24/7 shield spam group.
NB's still have crazy damage and sustain, but the no cloak thing is gimping them hard from the duels I've had. I've noticed a few moving to shield stack and it making a huge difference like you say. I don't think magelight/inner light should have this bonus. It should just be a radiant thing. I'd rather the active effect from inner light be something that boosts damage or defenses in general.
And I noticed NB use cloak to their advantage moving around DK's. Yea I can see them but the ability to negate DOTs is obviously a nice counter to the DK's increased power. They still have good dmg and sustain. But on the pts I saw maybe 3 NB's, one of whom was a stam I fought and died multiple times to; surprise attack is still a beast and as it should be!
I agree inner magelight should not grant the ability to see NB. I'm not sure how that gets recoded, but it should provide extra magicka and spell boost instead of ability to see Nightblades.
Radiant magelight is fine. Could be the issue NB have now is that the invisible mechanic works in that if one person sees you everyone sees you (pve and pvp). For pvp, they should implement a different shade around the NB so that you can see him if you dont have magelight on your bar while someone in your group is using it but make the NB look hazy (like a predator cloak looking graphic).
I would like to see more NB on PTS testing their class out. And not in dueling situations. PTS battles tonight?
I'm thinking of zerging the PTS tonight.2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I must admit it would be fun to mess around on the PTS and see how things work in an open pvp type setting, see if the same things cause lag, etc...just to see how the fights feel in a non-dual.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭oh and testing the new siege might be a good idea too Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
@Derra I agree regarding the lamentable changes to number of reflects, but it still stands that neither reflect is guaranteed, provided you have other ranged abilities on your bar to soak up the opponent's reflect pool. In any case, though, the fact that it isn't reflectable now indicates to me that it needs some other counter, such as the initial hit being dodgeable. Having only block as an option is pretty terrible.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
@Derra I agree regarding the lamentable changes to number of reflects, but it still stands that neither reflect is guaranteed, provided you have other ranged abilities on your bar to soak up the opponent's reflect pool. In any case, though, the fact that it isn't reflectable now indicates to me that it needs some other counter, such as the initial hit being dodgeable. Having only block as an option is pretty terrible.
I´ve only ever blocked meteor on my chars - too much of a risk to reflect it back and get doublereflected for more dmg.
I don´t think an ultimate should be easily counterable when it comes with a cost of 200 ultimate. Maybe they should reduce the initial hit dmg a little bit and increase the dot but dodging a one time use ultimate with that much of a cost investment is pretty much unacceptable.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
@Derra I agree regarding the lamentable changes to number of reflects, but it still stands that neither reflect is guaranteed, provided you have other ranged abilities on your bar to soak up the opponent's reflect pool. In any case, though, the fact that it isn't reflectable now indicates to me that it needs some other counter, such as the initial hit being dodgeable. Having only block as an option is pretty terrible.
I´ve only ever blocked meteor on my chars - too much of a risk to reflect it back and get doublereflected for more dmg.
I don´t think an ultimate should be easily counterable when it comes with a cost of 200 ultimate. Maybe they should reduce the initial hit dmg a little bit and increase the dot but dodging a one time use ultimate with that much of a cost investment is pretty much unacceptable.
I can't think of another ultimate that is completely unavoidable (unless you're a nightblade since you can still cloak meteor apparently).The ones you could make an argument for require placement by the player instead of just fire and forget. Someone really just did not think this through at all.Edited by Manoekin on February 5, 2016 6:11PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
@Derra I agree regarding the lamentable changes to number of reflects, but it still stands that neither reflect is guaranteed, provided you have other ranged abilities on your bar to soak up the opponent's reflect pool. In any case, though, the fact that it isn't reflectable now indicates to me that it needs some other counter, such as the initial hit being dodgeable. Having only block as an option is pretty terrible.
I´ve only ever blocked meteor on my chars - too much of a risk to reflect it back and get doublereflected for more dmg.
I don´t think an ultimate should be easily counterable when it comes with a cost of 200 ultimate. Maybe they should reduce the initial hit dmg a little bit and increase the dot but dodging a one time use ultimate with that much of a cost investment is pretty much unacceptable.
I can't think of another ultimate that is completely unavoidable (unless you're a nightblade since you can still cloak meteor apparently).The ones you could make an argument for require placement by the player instead of just fire and forget. Someone really just did not think this through at all.
The ones requiring placement by the player are not blockable, offer secondary effects and have a larger aoe radius on most of them though.
Also dawnbreaker of smiting is completely unavoidable and dirtcheap while doing the same burstdmg without the option to avoid the damage over time by walking out of it (the only time i´m gonna slot meteor over dawnbreaker in the next patch is when fighting a large organized force -for everything else dawnbreaker is superior simply bc it does not have a giant >>blocknow<< around the enemies feet with some sound effect).Edited by Derra on February 5, 2016 6:26PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lots of great changes, but unreflectable meteor? Barrier only hitting 6? Both terrible ideas. Other ultimates have a way to avoid them, but Meteor is just gonna happen, no matter what? With its buggy CC, high initial damage, DoT component, etc., I'm incredibly skeptical that this is going to be a positive change. And barrier only hitting 6 is a nerf too far, I think. I'm all for it hitting fewer people, but 12 would have been a better balance point, I think.
Meteor did have a counter and viable rotation for it to hit. Unexpected buff tbh.
@Minno
Not sure what you mean by a "viable rotation for it to hit." Meteor is not currently guaranteed to hit specifically because it is reflectable. It might hit the target, it might hit the caster, it really depends on who has a reflect and who has ranged attacks to eat through an enemy's reflect pool so that they still get hit by the meteor. It's way too strong if it's unreflectable.
Tell that sorcs templars and NBs who had no reliable way of countering a DKs meteor. You´ll eventually learn to block it too.
@Derra I already do block it when I'm out of magical, I'm not an idiot. And people used to be able to re-reflect it back, which was cool and kept me on my toes. NB and Sorc can slot shield for the reflect. Not to mentioned if you see them flap you can just get off some other reflectable ranged attacks to seat through the reflect pool.
With the change to pts so projectiles can no longer be re-reflected it´s only logical to make meteor not reflectable. It´s a mandatory change because slotting a shield and reflecting that meteor back where it was intended to go is no longer an option (kind of sad bc with the changes on pts sorcs would finally have been able to run vaible 1h + shield builds).
But lets not make it a build discussion. I´m sure people will adapt eventually. A change they could do is increase dot dmg and reduce initial hit dmg.
@Derra I agree regarding the lamentable changes to number of reflects, but it still stands that neither reflect is guaranteed, provided you have other ranged abilities on your bar to soak up the opponent's reflect pool. In any case, though, the fact that it isn't reflectable now indicates to me that it needs some other counter, such as the initial hit being dodgeable. Having only block as an option is pretty terrible.
I´ve only ever blocked meteor on my chars - too much of a risk to reflect it back and get doublereflected for more dmg.
I don´t think an ultimate should be easily counterable when it comes with a cost of 200 ultimate. Maybe they should reduce the initial hit dmg a little bit and increase the dot but dodging a one time use ultimate with that much of a cost investment is pretty much unacceptable.
I can't think of another ultimate that is completely unavoidable (unless you're a nightblade since you can still cloak meteor apparently).The ones you could make an argument for require placement by the player instead of just fire and forget. Someone really just did not think this through at all.
The ones requiring placement by the player are not blockable, offer secondary effects and have a larger aoe radius on most of them though.
Also dawnbreaker of smiting is completely unavoidable and dirtcheap while doing the same burstdmg without the option to avoid the damage over time by walking out of it.
Its conal at least. Meteor still shouldn't be reflected:
- most spells with an object dropping from sky with AOE are not reflectable (standard, nova,).
- meteor's AOE is easily avoidable.
- 15k average dmg, that can be negated by entirely block (which costs around roughly 4k stam)
- costs 200 ultimate (Templar price is 190ish)
- take flight is not reflectable, and now targets. Does equal if not more dmg.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0
