RIP BREATH OF LIFE

BullNetch · February 2016

tennant94 wrote: »

@SirDopey piece of cake. @KingYogi415 trying to accomplish anything with a pug is sometimes challenging but the Bol changes won't make it much worse. I would bet my engine guardian set on it(good traits too). @BullNetch it sounds like you're annoyed you will have to press more than 1 button now xd.

healing often involves spamming one heal when the party is taking a ton of damage, that's just how games work.

Lots of healing guides advise spamming illustrious healing and healing springs. In PVP, spamming IH or HS is considered the best way to accrue points.

tennant94 · February 2016

@Bossdonut haha that cut deep. Not as deep as my concealed weapon though

SirDopey · February 2016

Bossdonut wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Don't spam it as much then you won't burn through your resources fast. You should only be using Bol in near death situations so if your team requires Bol spam they need to up there game.

Righto mate, good luck completing vWGT in the next patch xD

We will see how many people upped "there" game on 3-23

Trolls will troll, its kinda funny though, of all the classes that overly rely on their healers its the NBs =P

Kwivur · February 2016

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

Toxic_Hemlock · February 2016

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

If by L2P you mean another class, then I agree with you 100%.

Fuzzybrick · February 2016

O well, I prefer to dps on my temper and heal on my dk. So I won't lose any sleep. I can heal a dungeon on my dps temper with repentance and purifying light anyway.

Alucardo · February 2016

Damn shame, I guess now you'll have to take more than 1 Templar autorunning through a dungeon spamming BoL while he makes a sandwich.

Baconfat79 · February 2016

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

Ashtaris · February 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

So instead of having a class that people choose because of it's benefits for a healer such as Restoring Light, you want us brought DOWN to your level so that a Stamina DK Tank wearing Heavy Armor can heal a dungeon? Wait, maybe they can now!

Islyn · February 2016

For PVPers Purge 32% more expensive and barrier nerfed to 6 people.

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

and Fks Templars who wanna be in same DPS league.

*Why thanks!!*

Islyn · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Damn shame, I guess now you'll have to take more than 1 Templar autorunning through a dungeon spamming BoL while he makes a sandwich.

Errr, some of us don't roll that way at all :P (Any actual hard ones you could never do that anyway) this was a nerf for the sake of PVP.

Which, whatever. *shrugs*

BDO.

Vanady · February 2016

WTF. Nerf templars, why??? Thanks who ever decided this.

RIP BREATH OF LIFE.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

Which is fine with me, actually I think its great. I just hope they give us a little more utility to match what others have. They could start by giving us an aoe cc back among other things.

Alorier · February 2016

Who at Zos hates Templars why not just delete the class you nerf it so much

Whatzituyah · February 2016

I think this is great makes Siphoner Nightblades just a little more viable now.

Fruitmass · February 2016

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?

Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.

Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.

a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.

b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.

c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.

d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.

Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.

Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.

Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Fruitmass wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?

Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.

Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.

a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.

b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.

c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.

d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.

Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.

Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.

Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.

Mos-De-Atmo · February 2016

It's a big change but not the end of the world. Templars are still great healers. They still have an instant cast emergency heal, it just heals 2 instead of 3. They still have good healing passives, not to mention other healing skills and one of only two skills which can purge effects.

It's sort of like the Dark Cloak change or the block change a while ago - it will take getting used to but it can be done and it's probably for the best not to have builds so centred on just a single ability.

Islyn · February 2016

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

Stupid. When any other class has a whole tree/skill line for healing then you can say other classes should be as good.

When ONE CLASS has a WHOLE TREE for ONLY HEALS - why on earth should other classes be as good?

That whole notion is blatantly stupid.

Islyn · February 2016

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

O well, I prefer to dps on my temper and heal on my dk. So I won't lose any sleep. I can heal a dungeon on my dps temper with repentance and purifying light anyway.

Deleted because I was mocking you for being stupid and I don't want to get banned.

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Mos-De-Atmo wrote: »

It's a big change but not the end of the world. Templars are still great healers. They still have an instant cast emergency heal, it just heals 2 instead of 3. They still have good healing passives, not to mention other healing skills and one of only two skills which can purge effects.

It's sort of like the Dark Cloak change or the block change a while ago - it will take getting used to but it can be done and it's probably for the best not to have builds so centred on just a single ability.

Exactly...

But unfortunately it's the end of their world (those going crazy about it.)

Fruitmass · February 2016

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?

Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.

Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.

a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.

b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.

c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.

d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.

Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.

Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.

Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.

The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.

Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or two actually fire off.

I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely spending more time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Fruitmass wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?

Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.

Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.

a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.

b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.

c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.

d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.

Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.

Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.

Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.

The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.

Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.

I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.

True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.

Spottswoode · February 2016

Fruitmass wrote: »

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

One of the reasons I wanted the skill changed (and the change I wanted was much more minor) was to get PUGs off of the BoL only mindset and to even out healing across classes. Again, I didn't want it to be reduced quite this severely, as it would make the game a lot more difficult for PUGs.

Magdalina · February 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Don't spam it as much then you won't burn through your resources fast. You should only be using Bol in near death situations so if your team requires Bol spam they need to up there game.

Righto mate, good luck completing vWGT in the next patch xD

Please, I've run vICP and WGT with DK and NB healers and with no dedicated healer at all. It's a nerf alright, but it is definitely not the end of the world.

EDIT: I'm not saying that nerf is their greatest idea ever but it definitely won't make the game unplayable and content uncompleteable like a lot of people seem to think. Actually the sole amount of complaining makes me wonder if it was the right thing to do - now templar healers might have to do something else rather than conveniently spam BoL for heals.

Fruitmass · February 2016

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

See that's the mind set that makes it so we can't have nice things. That punish everybody because some people are idiots outlook. I know when to use BoL and when not to, in fact I rarely use it at all. I know my job is to buff and provide resources for my party members. Guess what though, I'm still going to be affected by this all the same and I really can't see any good reason for it. How is reducing my efficiency as a healer in anyway a good thing? Who would benefit from such a change and how?

Maybe instead of just blaming Temp healers for over use of BoL you should also take into account the number of people who run bad builds with no health, no armor, never dodge or block, stand in the red, don't use or any form of self healing (not even potions!) and make sloppy pulls.

Do some Templars over use BoL? Yes. But let's consider why.

a.) they're inexperienced and don't know that being a healer is more than just throwing your strongest heal out there as often as possible.

b.) they've been brow beaten into thinking that way because they're constantly told they suck if they don't.

c.) They have to in order to compensate for the short comings of others.

d.) Let's face it, some people are just bad players.

Reasons a. and b. can be fixed by explaining what a healer's role entails like how to maximize your ability to support the rest of your party and what skills are best used for what situations.

Reason c. can be fixed by people realizing that yes you can play how you want when your going solo but when your doing group content other people are relying on you. Your no longer playing by yourself and what you do now affects other people. You need to contribute your fair share.

Reason d. is something that can't be fixed no matter how hard you try because bad players don't L2P.

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

I understand you, but... what big difference will it even make? casting BoL twice to fully heal a dungeon group isn't that bad, and even in PUGs, the entire group isn't always taking synchronized damage, so BoL will mostly heal those in need.

The big difference is that it will now cost me twice the magica to heal my entire party in an emergency.

Plus let's say three out of the four of us get knocked to 10% health. Normally, 1 cast of BoL could get my party back on it's feet. If this change goes through, I'll only be able to heal 2 of them and number three will die if I can't get a second cast off in time. Now despite BoL being an instant cast it still does take a split second or to actually fire off.

I can tell you from experience a split second is all it takes for things to go sour. So I'm likely speending more time spending time rezing people when I could be using repentance so the tank can taunt and block, mystic orb so the sorc can dps and another heal to keep us from repeating the situation all over again.

True, BUT now, in that situation you described, we'll have to keep the group topped up (Pre Rapid Regen, Healing Ritual, Purifying Ritual etc.) so that by the time you even contemplate casting a second BoL, the player who is low health, will/should quickly use their own defensive abilities/heals IF they feel that they're in trouble while your heal over time's working its magic on them.

I think your putting way too much faith in that bolded part. Assuming they thought to do that, sometimes bad things happen, like lag and player response time. Hell even on a good day the server can be several seconds behind the client. So even if everything is good on the players end bad luck happens. Being able to heal everybody in one go helps to compensate for that.

And yes, the general idea is always to prevent that situation from happening. HoTs should always be applied profusely for that exact purpose but let's be realistic. With PuGs a near wipe is always a possibility. Being able to recover quickly from that can make all the difference and what they plan to do with BoL compromises my ability to do just that.

There is no clear positive and quite a bit of negative to this change. I really have to call it into question. And the attitude that some people are displaying regarding it makes me question it even more.

Spottswoode wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

Changing BoL is unnecessary with each of those reasons. So why, aside from just a deep resentment of the skill and those who use it is this even being considered? What practical, long term enhancement would it have on gameplay?

One of the reasons I wanted the skill changed (and the change I wanted was much more minor) was to get PUGs off of the BoL only mindset and to even out healing across classes. Again, I didn't want it to be reduced quite this severely, as it would make the game a lot more difficult for PUGs.

See that's just it. I can understand wanting to cut the umbilical so to speak when it comes to BoL. I agree that it's gotten more than a little out of hand. I'll tell anyone who'll listen that BoL should not be the only heal on your bar as a healer. I'm also all for more non Temp healers, by all means make healing more functional and intuitive for other classes. This isn't the way to do it though. All this does is spoil the major highlight of the Templar Class and that just feels like a cheap shot.

Ultimately will the change stop me from playing as a healer? No. I genuinely enjoy my role, just as I genuinely enjoy helping others. I will find some way to manage when the time comes. I'm just disappointed. Mostly because this only serves to reinforce the opinion that ZoS really can't manage meaningful balance. I'm also rather disappointed and not a little hurt that so many people seem to be of the opinion that any Templar that's ever had BoL slotted, let alone used it more than once in a thirty second time period (even when justified) must automatically be a scrub. Thus nerf warranted.

Actually, when I think about it I guess that is exactly what has me so upset and got me riled up in the first place

me_ming · February 2016

Fruitmass wrote: »

Kevmeister wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

Templars are wanted in dungeons for Repentance, Shards and Nova. Not BoL.

You only said that because BoL was a staple skill used by, oh I don't know, every Templar healers?

Let's see how effective they are now that you have taken that skill for granted, as it heals 1 less player in the group.

That's the thing, many Templars didn't take it for granted. People we were partied with took it for granted. Good Templars understood it was for emergencies, not for spamming. Good healing Templars used a variety of skills from the Resto Staves, Undaunted, Alliance War, Aedric Spear and Dawn's Wrath trees.

Bad players expected, insisted and often demanded that Templar healers use BoL and only BoL. Bad player insisted that non Templar healers were trash. Bad players run with no health and armor forcing Templar healers to spam BoL to cover for them. Bad players rant about how all other heal abilities other than BoL are useless.

And now ZOS made a bad decision that may very well drive the final nail into the coffin when it comes to playing a Templar.

Yeah, that is so true. Many would say that they don't care about the nerf, but BoL, is the one spell that keeps you alive when you're health is down to 10% and you're about to take another hit from a boss/mob. I'm not sure if people notice this, but as a healer, I constantly look at everyone's health bars, and there are a number of instances that it will say you're dead, but as I press that button, you are miraculously alive and more than half of your health is restored. As I have said before, I hope this nerf will make everyone be more conscious of keeping themselves alive, because unless you can 1 or 2 shot a boss with 1 Million health, you have to learn how to avoid damage or have a minute or two not DPSing because you have to heal yourself.

GlaceonGuy · February 2016

I'm not even that mad that BoL was nerfed, I'm mad because they nerfed Templar and buffed NB and sorc.

me_ming · February 2016

Kwivur wrote: »

You ever wonder where that "Blame it on the healer" quote came from? It's from players that have that cure all spam.. But they forget (or never knew better than) to manage their resources and the next thing you know; people are dying, including themselves. BoL wasn't meant to be spammed!! It was to save the ones on the brink of death! Personally, I'm glad this happened to BoL, because now, even the healer has to L2P!!

Let's just hope that when in a 4- or 12- man content where everyone is taking damage more than 60% of their health, you are the one getting the extra BoL, because if not, I'm pretty sure you're dead, because this time you don't get to blame your healer for not healing you in time.

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Islyn wrote: »

For PVPers Purge 32% more expensive and barrier nerfed to 6 people.

Baconfat79 wrote: »

This change is not about nerfing Templars, it's about killing the widespread notion that only Templars can be great healers. It puts all classes on a more even playing ground when it comes to healing. I approve. Good job, ZOS!

and Fks Templars who wanna be in same DPS league.

*Why thanks!!*

well at least jesusbeam wont be able to be dodged by rolling. well at least they give them that in return xD