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DPS - Good, Better, Best - What is good DPS at different veteran ranks for different classes?
spoqster
✭✭✭✭✭
Hi, I am a returning player and am looking to get back into the game. I have a few questions regarding good DPS and what to aim for - now after the updates in the past year.
I am also interested in what players have been able to achieve at lower veteran ranks as my DD toons are not at max level yet. I would like to know how far I am off the curve while leveling, so that I can make adjustments early.
So here goes, I hope you can answer these questions. (In the following, DPS always refers to sustained single-target damage.)
Thanks a lot for helping me out!
Edited by spoqster on February 2, 2016 4:08PM I am also interested in what players have been able to achieve at lower veteran ranks as my DD toons are not at max level yet. I would like to know how far I am off the curve while leveling, so that I can make adjustments early.
So here goes, I hope you can answer these questions. (In the following, DPS always refers to sustained single-target damage.)
- What is the best possible DPS for the eight character archetypes at max-level? (stam dk, mag dk, etc...)
- What are the minimum DPS requirements for the various content classes? (Trials, ICP, WGT, vDSA, vMaelstrom, vCoA, vDungeons)
- What are the best DPS values you can achieve with a toon at ranks v1, v5 and v10?
Thanks a lot for helping me out!
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Best Answer
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.6
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Resipsa131✭✭✭From a PvE Perspective;
Magicka Sorc LA Weaving/Force Pulse and Proccing Crystal Frags use Overload when out of Magicka I even throw up the twilight matriarch to regen magicka
Magicka DK DoT and Burn everything its an interesting playstyle once I max out my Stamina DK I'm going to build one
The Stamina Classes DK is probably top followed by NB, Sorc, and Templar
Magicka Templar Good self heals but has to channel the spells which leave you open to getting CC'd
Magicka NB great utility and group heals but the DPS is pretty far behind Sorcs.
PvP
Stamina NB
Stamina DK
Magicka Sorc
Then the rest the top 3 are clearly top three classes.
People will refer to spellpower as opposed to DPS as checks on whether you can do certain things for Trials probably 2500 unbuffed is minimum for running Trials or Group Dungeons and that's an easily achievable number. That leaves a ton of room for playstyle.Edited by Resipsa131 on February 2, 2016 4:51PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Resipsa131 wrote: »
People will refer to spellpower as opposed to DPS as checks on whether you can do certain things for Trials probably 2500 unbuffed is minimum for running Trials or Group Dungeons and that's an easily achievable number. That leaves a ton of room for playstyle.
I have honestly never heard of people using spell power as a measure of whether content is manageable. For a magic based character, there are really 3 main stats that determine DPS. Spell Power, Max Magic, Spell Crit (4 if you throw in your crit modifier). Anyone can focus on maxing spell power with the right gear. It doesn't necessarily mean your DPS will be any good.
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.
did VWGT/ICP with two 8k DPS(actually 3 tanks where two where dpsing) without any problem. all vet dungeons can be done easily with sub 10k DPS DDs the only exception is CoA hardmode.spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.
did VWGT/ICP with two 8k DPS(actually 3 tanks where two where dpsing) without any problem. all vet dungeons can be done easily with sub 10k DPS DDs the only exception is CoA hardmode.
Not saying it cant be done, but most groups pulling that low are going to struggle. To say people "easily" clear VICP with 8k DPS seems a little far fetched to me. It is pretty rare in my experience to find a DPS that can only pull 8k, but still has a firm grasp of mechanics. That being said, if you pay attention to every mechanic and don't mess up, you can drag most of these fights out for a LONG time with very low DPS.1 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭
It's a baseline number to which you can probably do trials and group dungeons. I've never seen a guild run for SO, AA, or Helra say 2500 spell power, 50% crit, 40k magicka minimum but I have seen several that want 2500 unbuffed spell power for DPSOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Resipsa131 wrote: »
People will refer to spellpower as opposed to DPS as checks on whether you can do certain things for Trials probably 2500 unbuffed is minimum for running Trials or Group Dungeons and that's an easily achievable number. That leaves a ton of room for playstyle.
I have honestly never heard of people using spell power as a measure of whether content is manageable. For a magic based character, there are really 3 main stats that determine DPS. Spell Power, Max Magic, Spell Crit (4 if you throw in your crit modifier). Anyone can focus on maxing spell power with the right gear. It doesn't necessarily mean your DPS will be any good.
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.
did VWGT/ICP with two 8k DPS(actually 3 tanks where two where dpsing) without any problem. all vet dungeons can be done easily with sub 10k DPS DDs the only exception is CoA hardmode.
Not saying it cant be done, but most groups pulling that low are going to struggle. To say people "easily" clear VICP with 8k DPS seems a little far fetched to me. It is pretty rare in my experience to find a DPS that can only pull 8k, but still has a firm grasp of mechanics. That being said, if you pay attention to every mechanic and don't mess up, you can drag most of these fights out for a LONG time with very low DPS.
Edit: Also, sounds like you are running a very unorthodox group. Not exactly sure what you meant by 3 tanks, 2 were DPSing. Does that mean they were in tank gear? Were they usually tanks but just trying to DPS? There is a world of difference between a really tanky character that knows all the fights only pulling 8k, and your average DPS pulling 8k.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭did VWGT/ICP with two 8k DPS(actually 3 tanks where two where dpsing) without any problem. all vet dungeons can be done easily with sub 10k DPS DDs the only exception is CoA hardmode.
Umm... Not everyone has 3-5 hours to spend on daily dungeons. Just sayin.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.
Thanks, @Oreyn_Bearclaw that's pretty much the answer I was looking for. Too bad you don't have any numbers on sub max-level.
My best dps toon at the moment is a stamina DK at v5. I'm currently pulling 6k-8k depending on the boss. I know this is really, really low, but I'm only wearing v1 gear at the moment.
The precise questions I want to answer are the following:- How bad is 7k dps at v5? I am I good, alright or terrible?
- What is the max I can get at v5?
- And what numbers should I get when my toon is scaled up to v16? As in, how much effect does the scaling have on the dps numbers?
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So how does one calculate Single target dps?
I mean it's usually 1 sec per attack, theoretically that would mean damage per second would be based on one attack, or at most one attack plus a DoT of some kind?
For example, an overload light attack takes 1 sec, stand alone (based on Tooltip data) my dps is roughly 12k.
Now do I just base my dps off of this? What if my Curse goes off on the same sec as my overload light attack, while Liquid Lightning is proccing? Is this dps 22k? (12K LA + 8k Curse + Liquid Lightning 2.5k tick)
Just been wonderin for a while.0 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »So how does one calculate Single target dps?
I mean it's usually 1 sec per attack, theoretically that would mean damage per second would be based on one attack, or at most one attack plus a DoT of some kind?
For example, an overload light attack takes 1 sec, stand alone (based on Tooltip data) my dps is roughly 12k.
Now do I just base my dps off of this? What if my Curse goes off on the same sec as my overload light attack, while Liquid Lightning is proccing? Is this dps 22k? (12K LA + 8k Curse + Liquid Lightning 2.5k tick)
Just been wonderin for a while.
You install an addon, such as AUI and then do a fight against an enemy with a lot of hit points. You'll want to check your stats while you run dungeons, or you can test it in the wild against a giant or a mammoth, or you go into one of the easier vet dungeons by yourself and test your dps there on one of the bosses such as Blood Spawn at Spindleclutch.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »So how does one calculate Single target dps?
I mean it's usually 1 sec per attack, theoretically that would mean damage per second would be based on one attack, or at most one attack plus a DoT of some kind?
For example, an overload light attack takes 1 sec, stand alone (based on Tooltip data) my dps is roughly 12k.
Now do I just base my dps off of this? What if my Curse goes off on the same sec as my overload light attack, while Liquid Lightning is proccing? Is this dps 22k? (12K LA + 8k Curse + Liquid Lightning 2.5k tick)
Just been wonderin for a while.
You install an addon, such as AUI and then do a fight against an enemy with a lot of hit points. You'll want to check your stats while you run dungeons, or you can test it in the wild against a giant or a mammoth, or you go into one of the easier vet dungeons by yourself and test your dps there on one of the bosses such as Blood Spawn at Spindleclutch.
Oh it's an average! That actually makes a ton of sense! Im on xbox so I can't do that so easily, however I can definitely figure it out.
Just need to find out how much HP a mammoth has, then I can do the math myself.
Thank you!0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you are looking for numbers for single target DPS:
-Less than 10k means your build is broken or you need to L2P.
-10-15k is probably the average range. This is what you see most "pugs" pulling that arent brand new to group content. Only places you might struggle are SO and VWGT/ICP.
-15-20K is pretty solid for most encounters. You can certainly clear all content and trials at this level.
-20-25k puts you in the "very good" category I would say. Most people are not pulling this on true single target fights. With two 20k+ DPS in the group, you can stack and burn pretty much all 4-man content.
-25-35k is the "elite" category. You are either an overload sorc, or exceptional at your build to pull these kind of numbers single target.
In terms of rankings, top 3 for single target are probably: Sorc with full overload, Magic DK, Stam, DK. People are also starting to get really good numbers on both magic and stam NB, especially with Maelstrom bow.
It's really hard to get good numbers below vet 16. DPS is highly gear dependent. Most people arent running around in min/maxed gold sets at lower levels.
Thanks, @Oreyn_Bearclaw that's pretty much the answer I was looking for. Too bad you don't have any numbers on sub max-level.
My best dps toon at the moment is a stamina DK at v5. I'm currently pulling 6k-8k depending on the boss. I know this is really, really low, but I'm only wearing v1 gear at the moment.
The precise questions I want to answer are the following:- How bad is 7k dps at v5? I am I good, alright or terrible?
- What is the max I can get at v5?
- And what numbers should I get when my toon is scaled up to v16? As in, how much effect does the scaling have on the dps numbers?
I really wouldnt stress about DPS until you get your gear maxed. 8k at Vet 5 actually sounds pretty darn good. I can't stress enough how important gear is in terms of the DPS that you pull.Waffennacht wrote: »So how does one calculate Single target dps?
I mean it's usually 1 sec per attack, theoretically that would mean damage per second would be based on one attack, or at most one attack plus a DoT of some kind?
For example, an overload light attack takes 1 sec, stand alone (based on Tooltip data) my dps is roughly 12k.
Now do I just base my dps off of this? What if my Curse goes off on the same sec as my overload light attack, while Liquid Lightning is proccing? Is this dps 22k? (12K LA + 8k Curse + Liquid Lightning 2.5k tick)
Just been wonderin for a while.
On Console, you need to do math. Its tough to get accurate numbers. On PC, most people use Foundry Tactical Combat for an addon. Its not perfect, but it works.
What you are describing for DPS is really just a small part of a rotation, in other words, its your spam skill. Take a Magic DK. their main spam is a weave with molten whip. That means every second you are getting a medium attack and a whip if weaved properly. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. On my magic DK, I am generally keeping up 7 DoTs as much as possible (burning embers, engulfing flames, sea of flames, elemental ring, wall of elements, eruption, and Banner when its up). That is where the real DPS comes in. Other builds dont necessarily keep up that many DoTs, but they are likely keeping up at least one DoT and several Buffs/Debuffs. The better you are at managing your DoTs/Buffs, the better your DPS will be.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on February 2, 2016 6:41PM1 -
spoqster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »So how does one calculate Single target dps?
I mean it's usually 1 sec per attack, theoretically that would mean damage per second would be based on one attack, or at most one attack plus a DoT of some kind?
For example, an overload light attack takes 1 sec, stand alone (based on Tooltip data) my dps is roughly 12k.
Now do I just base my dps off of this? What if my Curse goes off on the same sec as my overload light attack, while Liquid Lightning is proccing? Is this dps 22k? (12K LA + 8k Curse + Liquid Lightning 2.5k tick)
Just been wonderin for a while.
You install an addon, such as AUI and then do a fight against an enemy with a lot of hit points. You'll want to check your stats while you run dungeons, or you can test it in the wild against a giant or a mammoth, or you go into one of the easier vet dungeons by yourself and test your dps there on one of the bosses such as Blood Spawn at Spindleclutch.
Oh it's an average! That actually makes a ton of sense! Im on xbox so I can't do that so easily, however I can definitely figure it out.
Just need to find out how much HP a mammoth has, then I can do the math myself.
Thank you!
I'm not sure how easily it will be for you to find out how much HP a mammoth has, as it depends on which Alliance you belong to (as most mammoths are in Eastmarch). This guy here seems to be an Aldmeri character: http://i.imgur.com/ArykKW1.jpg
Let me know if you are DC, then I can look it up for you when I log in later.0 -
elium85✭✭✭@Waffennacht I'm on Xbox too so I know all about the combat text struggles. The best thing to do is time yourself killing the Bloodspawn in Spindleclutch. Get a tank to hold aggro and a healer to healing springs and just burn. He has right under 1.56M HP but I divide by 1.54M to account for taunts.1 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pretty much all what @Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote. It also depends on your CP. A low-vet Char (especially overload-sorc) with high CP can easily compete in V16-dungeons or even trials. Your down dps also depends on your group and so on, but your 6k...8k DPS sounds fine for someone with low CP and maybe no perfect group support (i think you don't have that much, isn't it?)
Noobplar0
