This is why RNG is such a bad system.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2016

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

Surprised op hasn't been back to defend his claim.

I'm sure 1k dungeons ran is more like a couple dozen.

Yeah, I want screenshots of his achievement sections from each of his vet toons. No way he has turned in 1000 pledges. I play this game way more than is healthy and I have 5 vet toons. I am nowhere close to 1000 pledges (and my monster pieces fill an entire alt/mule).

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Coming close to 50 completes of vmsa. Yet to receive any 1h daggers or axes or bows, from either last chest, or weeklys.

It's painful to decon destro staffs, resto staffs, shields and 1h swords. I know people who would like them, but sadly all i can do is decon them and pray for legendary temper

I hate the whole notion of bound gear.

MrGigglypants · February 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Coming close to 50 completes of vmsa. Yet to receive any 1h daggers or axes or bows, from either last chest, or weeklys.

It's painful to decon destro staffs, resto staffs, shields and 1h swords. I know people who would like them, but sadly all i can do is decon them and pray for legendary temper

I'm the polar opposite I get 1h precise axes daily and bows not much else .

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

@Wizzo91 I Ran Spindleclutch last night and got the helm. My second medium divines in about 10 attempts. Rng is rng and way healthier from a player engagement standpoint. I already have a few guild mates that no longer do pledges because they already have the monster helm / set gear in the traits they desire. Would be worse with tokens as everyone would quickly farm what they need/want.

I dunno... facerolling stuff 20-100 times, waiting for a 1% drop does not seem engaging. Seems like a chore. With a growing sense of frustration.

Skullz11c · February 2016

OP hasn't been back to "defend" his claim because I work overseas and only reply at night. No, I have not run 1000 pledges.....That is mathematically impossible with the number of characters I have and how long it's been since I obtained my first VET character. In all I would estimate the total number of dailies that I have ran to somewhere around the 190-210 range.

However, like any player should know, you obtain these items from pledges AND dungeon farming. So the bulk of my number comes primarily from days spent farming dungeons over and over. There have been days me and my guild ran Darkshade 20 - 30 times in ONE day. I ran WGT easily 50 times along last week farming with my guild. I was among only two people farming who did not get a single helm drop.

It is EXTREMELY easy to farm way over 1000 dungeons by now so I am really not sure where all the flaming about lying is coming from, maybe narrow minded thinking?

And no, I was not mistaken when I said I have never received a monster helm or shoulders. I am not saying I have received several with the wrong trait, I am saying i have NEVER got one.

I think another reply talked about lack of looting....No...not the case. I run with auto loot turned on and loot everything that glows.

Anyhow. Appreciate the discussion and relevant comments about RNG. I understand the key word here is random, I am just more than frustrated random has turned into impossible for me. I am 100% sure I am not the only person who has this luck. Also, appreciate the information about lowering the chance to get the item based upon how soon you completed the dungeon. Never heard that before, maybe I will slow down. Can't be worse.

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

Op you know what you need to do? I've said this before on here and no one belives me, Right so by the sounds of it you're trying to farm EG and Kena right? get your group together and go through each dungeon one by one, just once each and I bet you a helm drops, I've said before you need to unlock them in a pattern or something first, once you get one they all start to come, if AD go Banished Cells, it's where my first came from.

Derra · February 2016

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Coming close to 50 completes of vmsa. Yet to receive any 1h daggers or axes or bows, from either last chest, or weeklys.

It's painful to decon destro staffs, resto staffs, shields and 1h swords. I know people who would like them, but sadly all i can do is decon them and pray for legendary temper

I run the weekly on 5 chars since december - two before that.

Completed the arena over a hundred times with abou 40 weekly spots. I´ve started to decon precise and sharpened bows alongside sharpened resto staves.

Can´t get my hands on 2h DW or destro staves. Basically every offensive weapon avoids dropping for me like the devil avoids holy water.

Their reward system is and always has been incredibly frustrating and user unfriendly. I really feel some of the developers should be forced to play their own game with a set plan of what gear they have to aquire with specific traits and not be allowed off until they completed it.
They´d come up with acceptable solutions pretty fast.

Taternater · February 2016

Skullz11c wrote: »

I know there are many threads out there complaining about RNG, but it is ridiculous. I have 3 VET 16 characters and a VET 2. I have run more daily dungeons normal and veteran than I can count. It is easily over 1000 or so as I have played since console released.

Guess how many shoulders or monster helms I have ever got? Zero. I don't know if it's just terrible luck or what, but seeing other people who have basically collected all the sets and have been playing a fraction of the time I have and have ran less than half the dungeons is incredibly frustrating.

I know I am not the only person out there like this, but man, we need something different....

You need to return the skeleton key to Nocturnal. Your luck should turn around then.

But seriously, they should add a token you get every run and when you get maybe 20 you can buy a gear piece. Or something like that.

I didn't read all the posts in case that was already suggested.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · February 2016

Got to say that it sucks for you, I got my own v16 Kena divines helm on my second ever run in vWGT. It'll drop eventually for you

Cherryblossom · February 2016

Although the OPs claim of 1000 dungeons is obvious hyperbole, it doesn't change the fact RNG in this game is awful.

Firstly you have a small chance of getting an item you want, but worse still even if you do get the item you want, you still have RNG on the Trait, so you end up with a Sturdy shoulder.....

Whilst it's fine to call out the OP on hyperbole, we shouldn't forget the real issue here is ZOS not addressing the loot problems in this game.

M_TeK_9 · February 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igxrafm5Kxs

NativeJoe · February 2016

To be fair I've been running pledges 5 days a week for 6 months and havn't seen a single helm drop for myself. My friends on the other hand have almost completed all the sets. I feel the pain and vote for a token system. I don't care if it is 75 runs of a dungeon to get the helm I want. atleast their is a obtainable goal to grind for...

helediron · February 2016

Currently there are multiple problems is ZOS loot system.
- To keep items NOT dropping too easily, ZOS has to keep RNG low. That always leads to wildly varying luck. I have seen my guildmates to get their Valkyn on their first run in vCoA. Talk about easy.... Then, i've been farming with guildies on their hundreth run without their first. It's just unfair.
- There is no way to sell extra stuff. There is not even way to transfer loot inside the group. I've run vWGT over 200 times. Every time i looted an item fifth time knowing my teammate's been waiting it to drop, is every time disheartening. And then i just have to deconstruct it.
- In WGT and ICP there are too many sets in loot table. It's easy to get the first loot, but really, really hard to get the last item to full set. Well, you can try to rearrange left feet of Imperium into different piles...
- Normal modes drop v15 loot. People don't want it and try vet mode. They see it too hard and cry nerfs. Normal modes should drop same v16 items as vet/hard at lower rate, but that's close to impossible with already too low RNG chances.
- The vaults just extended the RNG, not fixing anything. We call them these days "Chests of Disappointment".

Fixes:
- Implement token systems. Move the gear sets to token vendors.
- Drop tokens with RNG average 50% chance of one normal, one (or sometimes two) on vet, two (sometimes one or three) on vet/hard. These have so high RNG percentages that they quickly drop to average rate, and remove most of the unfairness of current system. Drop tokens occasionally from minibosses. To obtain a five piece set would need about 50 runs at vet level.
- Let people puchase the set they want with tokens. Tanks purchase tank sets and so on. TV stone shop is rather good example - already in the game.
- There could still be some interesting single items dropping after completing dungeons. Move the loot to end chest without autoloot. Let people transfer items to others members of the group inside the chest. Master/maelström, hakeijo etc. could drop rarely.

M_TeK_9 · February 2016

Fixes : Buy a new game

Rune_Relic · February 2016

I wonder if half the bell curve is offset below 0% chance....so half the population doesn't even get a sniff...or so close to 0 its pointless.
Perhaps ZOS alots us positions on the bell curve for being bad

...no luck for you my friend

Xellos77 · February 2016

Dungeon Mark system needed.

Also, it's why I still have friends on my PSN list that play Diablo 3 (religiously, I might add) long after it's seat on the throne. Yeah, there are still periodic updates which "push the envelope" in terms of new gear/progression/etc, but in the end it's RNG that keep people pushing that lever like a mouse in a Skinner Box.

Essentially what I'm saying here is it's an artificial way to lengthen the game and keep you hooked. I didn't bite though because instead of this approach ZOS can make ESO so much better than it is right now, and I'm so done with this game because it's boring. They need to implement a tiered system of dungeon progression into low end, then high end, raids, like more successful MMOs out there.

I got a couple monster helms and shoulders (none matching or the right armor types, of course) but never even bothered to use them because crafted gear is (arguably) just as good, if not better.

My two cents.

Sausage · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

Its quaranteed way to keep players playing too. Ive played tons of games, where players get the best gears/stuff in the game too easy and therefore leave immediately.

I think alternative way to obtain stuff should work with RNG, when people start to lose their mind, they can take the alternative path.

Why would you get things too easily without RNG? The only possibility is that devs cant count. You can control item acquisition rate through the number of tokens people earn per run and how much the items costs. Full control. On the other hand you can only control the average rate of item acquisition with RNG (through drop rates). You dont have any control over people getting unlucky streaks (or lucky ones) and you can be sure some will. Some will get such horrible streaks they will smash their computer, take a dump inside and mail it to ZOS. I might be exaggerating with that last part there but you get the picture: people quit the game over this pissed off.

With Token system you lose RNG's excitement when you actually find something nice. Token system means, you know you need 100 token, you know you get one per day, its boring as hell, its like Christmas but like 1000 thousand times worse.

Im going to be disappointed if Monster Set Vendor is gonna be RNG, RNG top on RNG, doesnt mean good for this game, but RNG and alternative way whats totally different sounds better option to me. Player can try their luck with the RNG and if it doesnt work then choose another path.

Would it be fun if one Thief Passive was to increase your RNG chances?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

@Wizzo91 I Ran Spindleclutch last night and got the helm. My second medium divines in about 10 attempts. Rng is rng and way healthier from a player engagement standpoint. I already have a few guild mates that no longer do pledges because they already have the monster helm / set gear in the traits they desire. Would be worse with tokens as everyone would quickly farm what they need/want.

That's why a balance needs to be found. I dont think anyone is suggesting that you should be able to buy a helm with 1 or 2 tokens. The problem with pure RNG is that there is no end in sight. We need a system that allows for a reasonable path to get the gear your want. You shouldnt have to run spindle 100 times to get a helm, and if you actually do run it that much, you should have a few to chose from. For helms, I like the idea of 1 token per run as well as the usual tiny chance to get a helm. Then maybe 20-25 tokens gets you are random helm, and 30-40 gets you one of your choice.

i raise you with different amount of tokens for each dungeon and the boss dropping a piece of the his helmet. 5 of them and x amount of token make that you can make the helmet at a NPC. because we all know wayrest sewers is way easyer then CoA

Lollapalosaa · February 2016

Will contribute to this thread: yes RNG really has some serious problems.
29 runs in vMA and I'd be really happy to get any 2h or bow, but only 1hs weapons and staves so far.
& bloodspawn farm countless of times - no head.

It almost feels like zos has tried to make the RNG to be in favour of the player's build , BUT they have messed it up and it only favours contrary builds.. oh dear.

Derra · February 2016

Lollapalosaa wrote: »

Will contribute to this thread: yes RNG really has some serious problems.
29 runs in vMA and I'd be really happy to get any 2h or bow, but only 1hs weapons and staves so far.
& bloodspawn farm countless of times - no head.

It almost feels like zos has tried to make the RNG to be in favour of the player's build , BUT they have messed it up and it only favours contrary builds.. oh dear.

29 runs - oh sweet summer child

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Sausage wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

Its quaranteed way to keep players playing too. Ive played tons of games, where players get the best gears/stuff in the game too easy and therefore leave immediately.

I think alternative way to obtain stuff should work with RNG, when people start to lose their mind, they can take the alternative path.

Why would you get things too easily without RNG? The only possibility is that devs cant count. You can control item acquisition rate through the number of tokens people earn per run and how much the items costs. Full control. On the other hand you can only control the average rate of item acquisition with RNG (through drop rates). You dont have any control over people getting unlucky streaks (or lucky ones) and you can be sure some will. Some will get such horrible streaks they will smash their computer, take a dump inside and mail it to ZOS. I might be exaggerating with that last part there but you get the picture: people quit the game over this pissed off.

With Token system you lose RNG's excitement when you actually find something nice. Token system means, you know you need 100 token, you know you get one per day, its boring as hell, its like Christmas but like 1000 thousand times worse.

I dont mind RNG in games where the drop rate is 10-20% and the rarity of items stems from encounters being difficult af. Faceroll content with 1% drop chance and a 10% chance that the 1% drop has the traits you need does not float my boat. Getting a drop in a sytem like is not excitement its relief from torture.

But thats beside the point. Noone stops them from having both - RNG and a token system to keep unlucky streaks in check.

Xjcon · February 2016

Honestly Zos should just make most sets BOE, the amount of complaints from people who A. Haven't ever got their targeted piece or B. Can't make gold selling stuff is way higher then it should be.

The only benefit to keeping stuff BOP is preventing gold farmers from over running this game.

Places like WGT and ICP should have had set items that were BOE, aswell as VMA. Top tier players would be rich as F. While the rest should be working on ways to farm gold.

WillhelmBlack · February 2016

Can't believe you've had 0. That's so bad! I've still no Engine Guardian, yet I see console players with the full sets. It's sickening!