I took the plunge! After dying and dying and dying... some advice still needed.

lastango · February 2016

After coming to terms with the fact that my VET LEVEL 16 super BOSS dual wielding/two handed Dark Elf Dragon Knight was HORRIBLE in PVP... and that I couldn't survive more than a few seconds in 1:1 combat with anyone in Cyrodil... I completely scrapped my build.

I switched all 50+ Stamina Points into Magica. Poured 10 into health...

I ditched Dual Wielding -

Now I am a fire mage trying to level up my destruction staff and mages guild abilities.

I can use a completely leveled up bow or two handed sword on my second bar if I wish.

This is the advice I have consistently received on these forums... so I am trying it out for a month or so.

It's expensive! I had legendary prismatic medium armour on all five peices of the Kyne's Kiss set.

...and two prismatic defense legendary heavy armor pieces.

My blades were legendary as well.

Now I am in light + heavy armor.

...a few more questions...

One, should I switch from a werewolf into a vampire? Would this be beneficial?

and

Two, do I ignore restoration staff abilities if I am a fire mage?

and

Three, dudes, I'm lost... I've been playing this game since it came out - I love it... and I have done almost everything there is to do in the game except the PVP stuff... and my former build was deemed a POOR build for PVP by many experts here. That's why I was dying so quickly.

Any advice that would help me survive and make me useful in a party would be appreciated.

-Lt

Lord Xanhorn · February 2016

If you can't win on a Stam DK, you have other problems. They are not horrible at the moment.

1Grumpy_dunmer1 · February 2016

I'd say a stam dk is much better than magicka at the moment but if you insist elf bane is a great 4 peice set for magicka dk.
Maybe 4 elf bane 4 magnus 1 molag Kena. I would try 5 heavy 2 light in that scenario.
5 kagrenacs and 4 magnus could be good as well if you did 5 light 2 heavy sustain would be much better than the other setup.
Willows path I assume would also make a great dk set would need to find a another set to give you some damage though. And I'dk if I'd use an inferno staff atm either I'd probably either dual wield or sword and board for the extra set piece. Magicka dks really struggle for resources the more set pieces the better. I played magicka dk up until imperial city. Just pm me if you need any other info or if your on Psn add me and I'll help.

Therium104 · February 2016

It is not you man. The problem is NB are so grossly overpowered and easy to play pvp has been crippled. Broken. Just read the NB abilities. It is embarassing this even exists in a game. Sorc are close to as broken. Easy to play garbage.

This being said.... Magic DK is worse than Stam. Hard to believe I know.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

It is not you man. The problem is NB are so grossly overpowered and easy to play pvp has been crippled. Broken. Just read the NB abilities. It is embarassing this even exists in a game. Sorc are close to as broken. Easy to play garbage.

This being said.... Magic DK is worse than Stam. Hard to believe I know.

You make it sound like Stam DKs are actually bad, top 1v1 pvp build atm.

DKsUnite · February 2016

Agreed with everyone. DO NOT SWAP to magicka. Unless you have true mastery of the class and know exactly what you are doing and when you are doing it, you can't even begin to 1v1 in pvp with mDK. Stay with stam, watch a couple videos from the top pvpers on how they run 2h and bow. And then go practice.

If you go magicka, you are screwed.

Waffennacht · February 2016

Go WB, It's all you need for stam based characters. Sure a few players and builds wont die to WB spam but a hefty percentage will.

Do that and you're almost pro in pvp.

phillyproduct · February 2016

Best in game combo atm wrecking blow,take flight, executioner. If you can get someone off their feet with the wrecking blow and hit those powers it's over for anyone

It's easily a 30k combo 9k wb 13k take flight they under 50% so ex doing anywhere between 5k-9k

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 · February 2016

First of all, sorry for all the people shitting on you in this thread when you are just asking for help!

As others have said, Magicka DK is tough... but its doable.

If you insist on using a Destruction staff, you CANNOT ignore the restoration staff. You will need the self heal from Blessing of Restoration as well as probably the Healing Ward. If you go this route, you will want to use light armor and rely on the Destruction staff abilities to keep enemies as far away from you as possible. This means basically only using your DK abilities for buffs. Entropy is a must.

The other route is to go Heavy Armor Sword and Board and plan on getting real close to the enemy. I prefer heavy Julianos for this style. Shield, CC, whip em to death.

Its definitely tricky but is damn fun if you can make it work!

lastango · February 2016

Man... this is so insightful... now the support is coming out for the stam dk...

I think I will be going back at some point... because I spent several months mastering it and I enjoy it.

I am quite good at combat in the solo game... but this is my first PVP type of experience.

I know that I die rather quickly because I cruise around Cyrodil by myself...

However, I have been in several situations where it's just me against someone else...

...and even though they are a significantly lower level than me, they just shoot red or blue beams at me and I die almost instantly.

I'll be riding my horse... I get knocked off... then I'm frozen, then I get drained of life really fast.

It is a combination of my inexperience... and my lack of knowledge about how to defend myself against those attacks...

It just frustrates me that I am SO OVERPOWERED.

When I first started asking about it on the forums... I kept hearing that I needed to become a fire mage...

I resisted for months... I leveled up a bow... decked out my armor... farmed those champion points as high as I could... and I went back into Cyrodil only to get annihilated by a VET LEVEL 4 Kajit Sorceress. Maybe I suck, but hey, I really tried and there was no escape. I just feel like After playing morrowind, oblivion, skyrim and ESO since month one, that I should have enough skill to not die in a few seconds by someone that much lower than my level.

NBrookus · February 2016

NPC characters and bosses are stupid. They don't react well to situational changes and have repeatable mechanics that are often well telegraphed. In PvE, you learn those patterns and use it against them.

PvP players think just as fast as you can and react to terrain, opponent skills and situations. It's a completely different game, and you are just starting to learn it. Cut yourself some slack.

That said, being ganked off your horse, or being a magicka DK killed by a sorc is really not unusual or by itself a sign that you suck. That Vet 4 might be min-maxxed with 501 CP, be in top BiS gear, and have been PvPing since beta. Experience pays off.

Pepper8Jack · February 2016

This is the kind of situation when the help you need is just practice and experiencing. The problem is that cyrodiil is rather unforgiving at first, so you don't get the time to really practice. Therefore I suggest you find a buddy that knows what they're doing in PvP, meet up with them in a remote spot in cyro, and duel. Have them give you tips and feedback and eventually you'll see improvement.

If that's not an option... It's going to be a long road, but it's doable. For starters, try to participate in sieges/keep defenses just sui that you can pick up a feel for the battlefield as a whole. Avoid being by yourself as much as possible, don't get too aggressive, and that'll help you stay alive a bit longer.

Get on YouTube, and start looking around for tips/guides for PvP. I don't recommend copy/pasting what the YouTubers do, but if you pay attention you'll be able to pick up some helpful advice.

As for getting dismounted, as soon as you get hit, hold block. It'll immediately dismount you without going through the animation and help defend against the next attack coming in. Also, level up your horses stamina as that'll allow you to take more damage before getting knocked off.

It's definitely easier to be a decent pvper as a stam build rather than a magic build just because stam tends to be simpler on the whole, but I've killed and been killed by magic/stam/class combinations possible. Any build can work in the right hands, just try to find what works for you. I learned how to PvP on my stam templar alt because I was getting my butt handed to me on my sorc. After that I came back to my sorc andf figured out why I couldn't succeed and started blowing people up.

Finally, a poorly built V16 can melt in PvP even if it works fine in PvE. I recommend getting on an alt, get to lvl 15-25ish, get into a non vet campaign and let battle leveling extend your lifespan while you learn the basics.

A buddy of mine had a rough time as a stam DK in PvP for the better part of 4-5 months. One day, me and a buddy took him out dueling, taught him cc rules, weaving, and how to manage resources along with some skill/build changes, and now he's easily taking on 2-3 people at once and winning.

It's tough at first, but you can get there with some knowledge, experience, and investing time.

Edit: also if you're able, craft yourself a 5 pieces of whitesrakes to help keep you from getting bursted down before you learn anything. Wearing all BIS DPS gear won't do you any good if you don't know how to play PvP, or don't get any time to get your skills off.

Good luck!

kokoandshinb14a_ESO · February 2016

lastango wrote: »

Man... this is so insightful... now the support is coming out for the stam dk...

I think I will be going back at some point... because I spent several months mastering it and I enjoy it.

I am quite good at combat in the solo game... but this is my first PVP type of experience.

I know that I die rather quickly because I cruise around Cyrodil by myself...

However, I have been in several situations where it's just me against someone else...

...and even though they are a significantly lower level than me, they just shoot red or blue beams at me and I die almost instantly.

I'll be riding my horse... I get knocked off... then I'm frozen, then I get drained of life really fast.

It is a combination of my inexperience... and my lack of knowledge about how to defend myself against those attacks...

It just frustrates me that I am SO OVERPOWERED.

When I first started asking about it on the forums... I kept hearing that I needed to become a fire mage...

I resisted for months... I leveled up a bow... decked out my armor... farmed those champion points as high as I could... and I went back into Cyrodil only to get annihilated by a VET LEVEL 4 Kajit Sorceress. Maybe I suck, but hey, I really tried and there was no escape. I just feel like After playing morrowind, oblivion, skyrim and ESO since month one, that I should have enough skill to not die in a few seconds by someone that much lower than my level.

in this game pvp importance is

champions points
gear rarity
gear set up

that really make a difference.
the combination of the above is why you can hit for 2k by skill A, yet get hit by the same skill A for 12k.

even if you are as good as the other player, the math is is on the players side that has more champ points and better gear.

KatzMainTank · February 2016

Stamina DK is definitely better than Magicka, for now anyway. Gold gear and build advice will only go so far. What you NEED is experience. Your gonna die in Cyrodiil. A lot. Every fight you engage in you should be taking mental notes on how your opponent is operating. Learn your opponents preferred combinations and/tactics.

The first thing I ask when I see an enemy player is "what class are you..." That alone narrows down both what to expect and how you should play. Experience is the best knowledge to have in PvP. Practice your combos on enemy NPC's with large health pools. Adjust your skill bars to what flows best for you when bar swapping. It just takes a little practice and a lot of dying, lol. Welcome to Cyrodiil!

JaJaLuka · February 2016

lastango wrote: »

After coming to terms with the fact that my VET LEVEL 16 super BOSS dual wielding/two handed Dark Elf Dragon Knight was HORRIBLE in PVP... and that I couldn't survive more than a few seconds in 1:1 combat with anyone in Cyrodil... I completely scrapped my build.

I switched all 50+ Stamina Points into Magica. Poured 10 into health...

I ditched Dual Wielding -

Now I am a fire mage trying to level up my destruction staff and mages guild abilities.

I can use a completely leveled up bow or two handed sword on my second bar if I wish.

This is the advice I have consistently received on these forums... so I am trying it out for a month or so.

It's expensive! I had legendary prismatic medium armour on all five peices of the Kyne's Kiss set.

...and two prismatic defense legendary heavy armor pieces.

My blades were legendary as well.

Now I am in light + heavy armor.

...a few more questions...

One, should I switch from a werewolf into a vampire? Would this be beneficial?

and

Two, do I ignore restoration staff abilities if I am a fire mage?

and

Three, dudes, I'm lost... I've been playing this game since it came out - I love it... and I have done almost everything there is to do in the game except the PVP stuff... and my former build was deemed a POOR build for PVP by many experts here. That's why I was dying so quickly.

Any advice that would help me survive and make me useful in a party would be appreciated.

-Lt

How long have you been playing your super, uber stam dk in PvP? If that's what you want to play for enjoyment sake, stick with it. Generally you'll get better at it and refine it until you do beat the other people. It's also partly about strategy.
I would not recreate someone else's build because it may not suit you.

If you die too quickly/easily, you should ask yourself do I need more healing or more mitigation? How should I set up my damage/mitigation/healing rotations? How can I manage my resources so I can outlast the other guy? Am I using the best potions and food to complement my build? Am I using the landscape and the things around me to my best advantage (ie. line of sight to prevent constant gap closer crap and sniping)?

Remember that a lot more thought needs to go into builds for solo PvP than PvE (with the exception of perhaps vMA) because you are relying on yourself for everything and have no healer or tank to bail you out if things get tough.