One of us is definitely *** crazy

baratron · February 2016

Thorn416 wrote: »

Okay, so this dude I play with, he's DPS, I always knew his damage was less than stellar but I dealt with it because he's my buddy.

The other day, I noticed this *** guy is wearing SEVEN pieces heavy armour! He's a stamina build! DPS! HEAVY ARMOUR! He won't even do 5 heavy 2 medium. We spend all our time debating it now and it sucks lol.

Ha, I have a few friends who are like this. Bad at their chosen role because of skill/armor choices they have made. It's kinda ridiculous when everyone in the group has DPS sharing turned on in FTC, and you can see that the Tank did 9k DPS while tanking, and the Healer did 12k DPS while healing, and the "DPS" did 6k DPS while only DPSing.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do when a friend wilfully decides to play the way they want. You can either play with your friend, or play in a group where you can complete the content. Over time, I've acquired the @names for a couple of "elite" DPSes for those situations where one of my friends who is bad at the game wants to do one of the harder dungeons.

What really helps is when the "bad choices" player runs a group with someone else in the exact same role (e.g. another Magicka Sorcerer DPS of the same level). That way they get to see for themselves someone else obtaining far greater DPS numbers with ease and without affecting their survivability.

RatedChaotic · February 2016

Thorn416 wrote: »

Okay, so this dude I play with, he's DPS, I always knew his damage was less than stellar but I dealt with it because he's my buddy.

The other day, I noticed this *** guy is wearing SEVEN pieces heavy armour! He's a stamina build! DPS! HEAVY ARMOUR! He won't even do 5 heavy 2 medium. We spend all our time debating it now and it sucks lol.

Normally I would say to each his own but in this case we rely on each other most times (especially in the sewers because I don't like big groups down there) so his DPS has to be up there while I handle support in gank situations.

Do any of you know of someone doing the same thing successfully? Is he dumb or am I lol

Why argue about it. If he choses to play that way let him. Thats all I'm saying. Why come here trying to change your friends toon.

dem0n1k · February 2016

I run 7pc heavy armour on my main toon. I thought it was best for tanking? My Physical & Spell resistance are both around 30k & with the Immovable Brute buff that goes up to around 36k. I run Hundings Rage & Night Mother sets to try & bring my DPS up a bit.

In my PVE group I am the tank & try to get all the attacks on me so the ranged DPS guys can burn them down in relative safety. It seems to work well enough. I know my build is sub-optimal because I don't last long in a PVP fight.

Would I get a big advantage to use some Medium armour without sacrificing my tankiness?

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

Lol this OP... i agree with you @RatedChaotic.
let you friend play the game like he wants it lol. if you don't like it group with someone else.
and @Ragnarock1982 7 heavy on a tank is fine, especially at the start of questing you only have more benefits from using the heavy armor (the higher armor rating) although i would advise to put one medium and one light armor on to level those aswell. as you continue to level (i know you are low level because i saw your post about soloing a dolmen gz

) you will get more skillpoint which you can put in the armor tree's. because DPS is main;y scaled of max magicka or stamina depending on the skill, light and medium will increase your dps because these have passives of more stam/magicka and more stam/magicka regen or cost not sure on top of my head thought it was regen :P. i do also see you want to be a tank, as a main dk tank i would advise to spread your attribute points either in health/stam or health magicka depending which skills you prefer. because if you put everything in health you are actually making it harder for yourself, leveling will get alot slower because you will take ALOT longer completing the quests. i did about 50-50 into stamina and health with having all stamina enchants on my armor. if you need armor just get in guildchat and ill craft it for you. we are in the same guild now afterall.
GT:strawyfastart

MikeB · February 2016

I had a friend that was doing this exact same thing. I had to point out to him how much more damage he would do if wearing medium armor instead of heavy to get him to change. The math doesn't lie.

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

you can do it but 5 medium will increase your damage even more. but play how you like it. 5 medium is stronger, 5 heavy gives you some more survivability

redspecter23 · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

Of course you could. Mathematically, it's almost always going to be sub par compared to at least 5 medium but as posters above have said, you can build however you want. If you want to build for max dps and are trying to do it with 5+ heavy you'll have to either give up your dps dreams or give up the heavy. One or the other. If there was a build that used a majority of heavy armor (which has superior defensive benefits) and gives better dps than medium, why would anyone ever use medium armor other than aesthetics or a flavor build?

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

You can, you can even wear 7 light, but why would you want to?
You will do less damage, you will have less crit and all stamina ability costs will be higher. Ever dodge roll will be more expensive.
Extra defence and healing recieved from heavy armor are not worth it. If anything, heavy armor passives are pretty useless anyway compared to light or medium.
P.S. If you want heavy armor for looks, craft heavy cuirass and legs and the rest medium, in any heavy-looking style (xivkyn for example).

EnemyOfDaState · February 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

You can, you can even wear 7 light, but why would you want to?
You will do less damage, you will have less crit and all stamina ability costs will be higher. Ever dodge roll will be more expensive.
Extra defence and healing recieved from heavy armor are not worth it. If anything, heavy armor passives are pretty useless anyway compared to light or medium.
P.S. If you want heavy armor for looks, craft heavy cuirass and legs and the rest medium, in any heavy-looking style (xivkyn for example).

You have a point. I will consider it though I hope they rework the heavy armor passives to make them more viable.

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

you can do it but 5 medium will increase your damage even more. but play how you like it. 5 medium is stronger, 5 heavy gives you some more survivability

As a dd, being stronger means more survivability. Its really hard to survive when you cant kill your enemies fast, and that extra health and defense wont really help.

Tdroid · February 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

P.S. If you want heavy armor for looks, craft heavy cuirass and legs and the rest medium, in any heavy-looking style (xivkyn for example).

Minor thing, but I always find it better to go for cuirass + pauldrons for looks, since the legs often get at least partially obscured anyway. Same defense, but(at least for some) armors it does give more of a "heavy armor" overall look.

As for the OP, I will continue the redundancy: Yes, he is limiting his DPS considerably. Both in actual damage(losing a +12% bonus), sustain(losing cost reduction and regen), crit chance and one of the more significant defences for a stam DD; cost reduction to dodge rolling.

My suggestion would be to ask him to try medium armor so he can feel the difference, or that he should try tanking if he is set on using heavy armor. If he is willing to try netiher, you're gonna have to live with the risk or find another guy to play with.

Lenikus · February 2016

Dreugh King / Way of the Fire ?

Artjuh90 · February 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why 7 heavy isn't a good choice? What passives or champ stats make a 5 heavy 2 medium build better?

You're losing a ton of extra crit, cost reduction, weapon damage and stamina regen. As a stamina dd 5 medium is pretty much must have.

I run a stamina DK DPS now since i play redguard could I get away with 5 heavy 2 medium?

you can do it but 5 medium will increase your damage even more. but play how you like it. 5 medium is stronger, 5 heavy gives you some more survivability

As a dd, being stronger means more survivability. Its really hard to survive when you cant kill your enemies fast, and that extra health and defense wont really help.

i disagree to a certain point. a dps has a beter survival rate then a tank when going on his own becuase the dps can burst down some adds before doing any damage where a tank lacks the damage to burst anything down. but full min/max has highest damage yes but against say certain world bosses or in public its nice to have that bit of extra armor. and because he already is a redguard he already has most of the medium armor traits in his passive so he could be like a stam altmer with more armor for example. and even then he will have more regen and stamina then that altmer ;P

LadyNalcarya · February 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

Dreugh King / Way of the Fire ?

-vr14 max
-traits!
-No weapon dmg/crit bonus from medium armor passive
-Higher stamina costs and less regen

SirDopey · February 2016

Thorn416 wrote: »

Okay, so this dude I play with, he's DPS, I always knew his damage was less than stellar but I dealt with it because he's my buddy.

The other day, I noticed this *** guy is wearing SEVEN pieces heavy armour! He's a stamina build! DPS! HEAVY ARMOUR! He won't even do 5 heavy 2 medium. We spend all our time debating it now and it sucks lol.

Normally I would say to each his own but in this case we rely on each other most times (especially in the sewers because I don't like big groups down there) so his DPS has to be up there while I handle support in gank situations.

Do any of you know of someone doing the same thing successfully? Is he dumb or am I lol

Actually, there's a NB on PC | NA at the moment wearing all Heavy Impenetrable in my guild, I play with most nights. While he doesn't have the insane burst damage my NB does he still hits hard, but more importantly, is extremely hard to kill. He has about 2.9k WD and 30K stamina which is enough to wear most players down once they've used up their resources on him.

You need to know how to play the class to make it work. He does spend a lot of time in the sewers using rapids and aggro'ing banners to wipe small groups

Ragnarock1982 · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Lol this OP... i agree with you @RatedChaotic.
let you friend play the game like he wants it lol. if you don't like it group with someone else.
and @Ragnarock1982 7 heavy on a tank is fine, especially at the start of questing you only have more benefits from using the heavy armor (the higher armor rating) although i would advise to put one medium and one light armor on to level those aswell. as you continue to level (i know you are low level because i saw your post about soloing a dolmen gz ) you will get more skillpoint which you can put in the armor tree's. because DPS is main;y scaled of max magicka or stamina depending on the skill, light and medium will increase your dps because these have passives of more stam/magicka and more stam/magicka regen or cost not sure on top of my head thought it was regen :P. i do also see you want to be a tank, as a main dk tank i would advise to spread your attribute points either in health/stam or health magicka depending which skills you prefer. because if you put everything in health you are actually making it harder for yourself, leveling will get alot slower because you will take ALOT longer completing the quests. i did about 50-50 into stamina and health with having all stamina enchants on my armor. if you need armor just get in guildchat and ill craft it for you. we are in the same guild now afterall.
GT:strawyfastart

As of last night, I was level 19, with 7 heavy, with 12 points in stamina, 4 in magicka and 2 in health. My next few points will be going to health.

I was going to try using 2 medium, 5 heavy, but I find that my stamina pool/regen is quite good at the moment, so use all heavy for the health benefits.

Rylana · February 2016

OP, you would definitely cease being my friend if you trashtalked me in public like you just did him.

Just saying.

Edit to add: Ya also sound awfully elitist tbqh. I bet your DPS sucks too.

Pepper8Jack · February 2016

Ragnarock1982 wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Lol this OP... i agree with you @RatedChaotic.
let you friend play the game like he wants it lol. if you don't like it group with someone else.
and @Ragnarock1982 7 heavy on a tank is fine, especially at the start of questing you only have more benefits from using the heavy armor (the higher armor rating) although i would advise to put one medium and one light armor on to level those aswell. as you continue to level (i know you are low level because i saw your post about soloing a dolmen gz ) you will get more skillpoint which you can put in the armor tree's. because DPS is main;y scaled of max magicka or stamina depending on the skill, light and medium will increase your dps because these have passives of more stam/magicka and more stam/magicka regen or cost not sure on top of my head thought it was regen :P. i do also see you want to be a tank, as a main dk tank i would advise to spread your attribute points either in health/stam or health magicka depending which skills you prefer. because if you put everything in health you are actually making it harder for yourself, leveling will get alot slower because you will take ALOT longer completing the quests. i did about 50-50 into stamina and health with having all stamina enchants on my armor. if you need armor just get in guildchat and ill craft it for you. we are in the same guild now afterall.
GT:strawyfastart

As of last night, I was level 19, with 7 heavy, with 12 points in stamina, 4 in magicka and 2 in health. My next few points will be going to health.

I was going to try using 2 medium, 5 heavy, but I find that my stamina pool/regen is quite good at the moment, so use all heavy for the health benefits.

This argument really doesn't start to come into any sort of relevance until you hit vet ranks. Solo PvE (excluding MSA) content can be done with almost any build/playstyle (My stepdad runs a NB with all his attributes in Magicka, but runs around light attacking with dual blades and spamming killer's blade.... and is getting by just fine....), and battle leveling makes your choices nearly irrelevant in PvP.

babylon · February 2016

Just tell him you'll craft him a set and get him to at least try it. He's your friend, he should listen to you.

bountyspiter · February 2016

Thorn416 wrote: »

The other day, I noticed this *** guy is wearing SEVEN pieces heavy armour! He's a stamina build! DPS! HEAVY ARMOUR! He won't even do 5 heavy 2 medium. We spend all our time debating it now and it sucks lol.

I really dont wanna sound like a prick but... i had similar experiences in the past with "heavy armor dds" and i'm telling you now, i never ever again group up with people who think they can damage stuff in full heavy armor. worst part being they are confident it works...

RazielSR · February 2016

Wouldn't be cool to show this topic to your friend?? haha O_o "Hey dude, I was badtalking about your build in the forums"

NativeJoe · February 2016

Let him learn. inform him of the parameters he should reach. IE 15k dps atleast. show him this website http://esoacademy.com/set-bonus-items/ and let him see what he can find to improve his build.

I'm sure there are niche heavy armor dps builds out there he can find himself a comfortable position in.

niche builds can be really fun, and in pvp can throw people for a serious loop. one of my favorite sets is the brands of imperium. it drops a shield on all nearby allies. if he has sustain issues, introduce him to some undaunted sets...there are lots of things non-optimum characters can do.

BlackEar · February 2016

I would advise not playing with him when doing hard content. That way you won't be bothering each other - he can play his build and you can play to beat hard content. You can still group up for the easier tasks.

The best of both worlds, imo.

Thorn416 · February 2016

Rylana wrote: »

OP, you would definitely cease being my friend if you trashtalked me in public like you just did him.

Just saying.

Edit to add: Ya also sound awfully elitist tbqh. I bet your DPS sucks too.

i'm a healer so yeah my spell damage is only like 2400 lol

I made this thread to ask which one of us was right and you added nothing to the conversation, wasted your own time.

Congratulations, you played yourself

Thorn416 · February 2016

.

Thorn416 · February 2016

RazielSR wrote: »

Wouldn't be cool to show this topic to your friend?? haha O_o "Hey dude, I was badtalking about your build in the forums"

I tell him he's a *** head for his build and he tells me to *** off and we both laugh and continue whatever we're doing.

Why are so many people assuming my boy is some soft dude that get's feeling hurt by a game lol it's nothing

Thorn416 · February 2016

SirDopey wrote: »

Thorn416 wrote: »

Okay, so this dude I play with, he's DPS, I always knew his damage was less than stellar but I dealt with it because he's my buddy.

The other day, I noticed this *** guy is wearing SEVEN pieces heavy armour! He's a stamina build! DPS! HEAVY ARMOUR! He won't even do 5 heavy 2 medium. We spend all our time debating it now and it sucks lol.

Normally I would say to each his own but in this case we rely on each other most times (especially in the sewers because I don't like big groups down there) so his DPS has to be up there while I handle support in gank situations.

Do any of you know of someone doing the same thing successfully? Is he dumb or am I lol

Actually, there's a NB on PC | NA at the moment wearing all Heavy Impenetrable in my guild, I play with most nights. While he doesn't have the insane burst damage my NB does he still hits hard, but more importantly, is extremely hard to kill. He has about 2.9k WD and 30K stamina which is enough to wear most players down once they've used up their resources on him.

You need to know how to play the class to make it work. He does spend a lot of time in the sewers using rapids and aggro'ing banners to wipe small groups

This is the kind of info I was hoping for. That's really interesting man, I wish my friend was a NB that would probably work better with the full heavy thing