This is why RNG is such a bad system.

Skullz11c · February 2016

I know there are many threads out there complaining about RNG, but it is ridiculous. I have 3 VET 16 characters and a VET 2. I have run more daily dungeons normal and veteran than I can count. It is easily over 1000 or so as I have played since console released.

Guess how many shoulders or monster helms I have ever got? Zero. I don't know if it's just terrible luck or what, but seeing other people who have basically collected all the sets and have been playing a fraction of the time I have and have ran less than half the dungeons is incredibly frustrating.

I know I am not the only person out there like this, but man, we need something different....

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

willymchilybily · February 2016

seems...unlikely to be as many normal and veteran pledge/dungeon runs as you say (thousands) and you to have absolutely none (not one) monster shoulder from the effort.

Do you mean you have actually ran 1000 dungeons since June 2015? approximately 245 days, 2 pledges a day across all characters? (not that you could do 2 a day until you hit VR1 and you had to level the alts too...) Or do you mean since you joined: October 2015

and when you say no shoulders you mean none that you want or literately never had any not even a cruddy well fitted malabeth the scourger from a silver/gold chest?

The problem with hyperbole, it undermines a relevant point that the RNG is pretty unfair. admittedly equally unfair to all, but still unfair 50% of the time.

i have myself only recently got some of the group dungeon achievments like slayer of daedra or slayer of dwarven constructs. which means I'm probably still a way off from 1000 dungeons runs. i guess maybe between all the characters i have i might be a quarter to half way there. and i have all shoulders.

Sounds like there is something very wrong for you. have you tried submitting a ticket.

Mettaricana · February 2016

I've gotten every odd helm to should possible and never once the one I want

Shader_Shibes · February 2016

Coming close to 50 completes of vmsa. Yet to receive any 1h daggers or axes or bows, from either last chest, or weeklys.

It's painful to decon destro staffs, resto staffs, shields and 1h swords. I know people who would like them, but sadly all i can do is decon them and pray for legendary temper

wayfarerx · February 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

seems...unlikely to be as many normal and veteran pledge/dungeon runs as you say (thousands) and you to have absolutely none (not one) monster shoulder from the effort.
Do you mean you have actually ran 1000 dungeons since June 2015? approximately 245 days, 2 pledges a day across all characters? (not that you could do 2 a day until you hit VR1 and you had to level the alts too...) Or do you mean since you joined: October 2015

and when you say no shoulders you mean none that you want or literately never had any not even a cruddy well fitted malabeth the scourger from a silver/gold chest?

The problem with hyperbole, it undermines a relevant point that the RNG is pretty unfair. admittedly equally unfair to all, but still unfair 50% of the time.
i have myself only recently got some of the group dungeon achievments like slayer of daedra or slayer of dwarven constructs. which means I'm probably still a way off from 1000 dungeons runs. i guess maybe between all the characters i have i might be a quarter to half way there. and i have all shoulders.

Sounds like there is something very wrong for you. have you tried submitting a ticket.

I agree with this. I run dungeons occasionally, certainly not anywhere near 1000 times, and I have most of the shoulders and quite a few helms. If you have literally had not a single monster set drop after months of continuous farming then I suspect something may be bugged.

Kammakazi · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

Yeah.

Khaos_Bane · February 2016

Nearly EVERYONE in the community agrees RNG BOP is bad for the game. Why won't ZoS listen? Who knows....

Lirkin · February 2016

Sounds like the RNG needs to be looked at. No programs are truly random but some are better than others.

sekou_trayvond · February 2016

RNG is fine. People simply need to recall their math lessons.

Smh.

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

I call BS no one run that many runs and NEVER had a helm or shoulder. More like it's been going for 1000 days and you've done a few and gotten the helms in bad traits. Not everyone can land the perfect traits first time. Everyone on xbox has a Kena set now. Fact if you're V16 you're wearing a Kena set whoop they aren't that cool anymore as they are so common. Don't get me wrong I still don't have V16 EG shoulders but I've picked them up at V1 and V4 on my NB last week alone but my Sorc never since June 15. But I doubt you've actually never had any.

Either than or you loot the boss see nothing and rage out.....forgetting to scroll down the loot pile to see if you've gotten anything lol.

Too many cry babies on here but everyone has gotten something. Let alone the real people who have actually run 1000 pledges.

Sausage · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

Its quaranteed way to keep players playing too. Ive played tons of games, where players get the best gears/stuff in the game too easy and therefore leave immediately.

I think alternative way to obtain stuff should work with RNG, when people start to lose their mind, they can take the alternative path.

Julianos · February 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

For example me i play 7/24 i get only crap 1 day i will go rampage and delete this game im sure. We need token system like in wow.

reften · February 2016

One of the variables that decreases your chance at getting something is # of times tried in some period of time. The more you try, the less likely each try will yield that good item.

Try once a week, and your chance increase vs. trying 7 times in a week.

heyewe · February 2016

I try your system reften, and like the OP have never gotten a monster helm or shoulder. Zero. Not once on console-xbox1.

I did love seeing the level 45 I kept alive and resurrected more than 10 times in the normal dungeon pledge the other day say "cool!...Molag Kena shoulder" after a run the other day tho...I had to bite my lip to keep from having one of my girl-fits!

GlassHalfFull · February 2016

Skullz11c wrote: »

I know there are many threads out there complaining about RNG, but it is ridiculous. I have 3 VET 16 characters and a VET 2. I have run more daily dungeons normal and veteran than I can count. It is easily over 1000 or so as I have played since console released.

Guess how many shoulders or monster helms I have ever got? Zero. I don't know if it's just terrible luck or what, but seeing other people who have basically collected all the sets and have been playing a fraction of the time I have and have ran less than half the dungeons is incredibly frustrating.

I know I am not the only person out there like this, but man, we need something different....

I thought my 20 DSA and zero master anything was really bad RNG, but yours is worse. I feel you pain, the current RNG does seem really lame.

Lately I have notices less Perfect Roe, Malachite Shards, Psjiic fragments, Glass fragments, its like every thing is reduced.

Shunravi · February 2016

remember when Apple changed their iTunes rng system because the 'true randomness' it had was indeed random so entire albums would play together? Zos needs to change their system like that.

Rune_Relic · February 2016

GlassHalfFull wrote: »

Skullz11c wrote: »

I know there are many threads out there complaining about RNG, but it is ridiculous. I have 3 VET 16 characters and a VET 2. I have run more daily dungeons normal and veteran than I can count. It is easily over 1000 or so as I have played since console released.

Guess how many shoulders or monster helms I have ever got? Zero. I don't know if it's just terrible luck or what, but seeing other people who have basically collected all the sets and have been playing a fraction of the time I have and have ran less than half the dungeons is incredibly frustrating.

I know I am not the only person out there like this, but man, we need something different....

I thought my 20 DSA and zero master anything was really bad RNG, but yours is worse. I feel you pain, the current RNG does seem really lame.

Lately I have notices less Perfect Roe, Malachite Shards, Psjiic fragments, Glass fragments, its like every thing is reduced....and in the crown store

Fixed

AverageJo3Gam3r · February 2016

Aaaaand that's why they're adding a monster set vender so peeps can stop complaining about RNG and complain about the grind on the forums.

AOECAPS · February 2016

Hate rng but running a 1000 dungeons and not getting one shoulder piece or helm is a little outlandish and hard to truly believe. Take a break from running them and then start back up I did that after not getting a helm running vet dailies almost everyday and getting 1 v4 ancient guardian and I've started to collect helms that are good and some that are trash(maw if the infernal) I agree it needs to be revamped but don't worry and fret over it and it will come

Autolycus · February 2016

Yeah, who would have RNG guide drop rates... that's virtually unheard of in video games.

Jura23 · February 2016

Sometimes even lots of effort doesn't pay off. That's life.

Slonekb05 · February 2016

I'm calling the op a liar. By numbers if you had done thousands of dailys, which you haven't you would have shoulders. I've done maybe 50 dailys and have a plethora of shoulders... Now getting the shoulders you want with the helm you want is a different story.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Sausage wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

RNG like this guarantees one thing - there will always be people who get NOTHING despite massive time investment. Do you really want your game to have a loot system that is guaranteed to f*ck some people over?

Its quaranteed way to keep players playing too. Ive played tons of games, where players get the best gears/stuff in the game too easy and therefore leave immediately.

I think alternative way to obtain stuff should work with RNG, when people start to lose their mind, they can take the alternative path.

Why would you get things too easily without RNG? The only possibility is that devs cant count. You can control item acquisition rate through the number of tokens people earn per run and how much the items costs. Full control. On the other hand you can only control the average rate of item acquisition with RNG (through drop rates). You dont have any control over people getting unlucky streaks (or lucky ones) and you can be sure some will. Some will get such horrible streaks they will smash their computer, take a dump inside and mail it to ZOS. I might be exaggerating with that last part there but you get the picture: people quit the game over this pissed off.

Jura23 wrote: »

Sometimes even lots of effort doesn't pay off. That's life.

Which is why people play games. To be entertained. A game can (should) be challenging, require a time investment and/or skill but it should not screw you over. People get enough of that IRL.

Fruitmass · February 2016

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Aaaaand that's why they're adding a monster set vender so peeps can stop complaining about RNG and complain about the grind on the forums.

Which only serves to bypass the problem not fix it.

Until they reevaluate drop rates and loot rights we're just going to be stuck with the same issue that's eventually going to turn into a never ending cycle of adding any and all rare loot from dungeons, trials, leaderboard, dolmens , ect. to the vendor because the odds of finding the piece of gear your looking for with the stats that you want is so abysmally low. Thus killing any sense of fun (not to mention purpose) in finding it yourself the way it was originally intended.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2016

I frankly dont believe you have turned in 1000 keys and got zero shoulders. RNG is a freaking nightmare, and IMO, it is this games fatal flaw, but I dont think inflammatory posts like this help. I certainly believe you might not have the pieces you want, but I dont believe you dont have any shoulders if you have in fact run 1000 dailys.

Edit: If you have in fact run that many pledges, it would be reflected in your achievements. It would also be worthy of a ticket/bug report because something is wrong with your game.

Wizzo91 · February 2016

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

Seido_Tensei_ · February 2016

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

@Wizzo91 I Ran Spindleclutch last night and got the helm. My second medium divines in about 10 attempts. Rng is rng and way healthier from a player engagement standpoint. I already have a few guild mates that no longer do pledges because they already have the monster helm / set gear in the traits they desire. Would be worse with tokens as everyone would quickly farm what they need/want.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2016

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

@Wizzo91 I Ran Spindleclutch last night and got the helm. My second medium divines in about 10 attempts. Rng is rng and way healthier from a player engagement standpoint. I already have a few guild mates that no longer do pledges because they already have the monster helm / set gear in the traits they desire. Would be worse with tokens as everyone would quickly farm what they need/want.

That's why a balance needs to be found. I dont think anyone is suggesting that you should be able to buy a helm with 1 or 2 tokens. The problem with pure RNG is that there is no end in sight. We need a system that allows for a reasonable path to get the gear your want. You shouldnt have to run spindle 100 times to get a helm, and if you actually do run it that much, you should have a few to chose from. For helms, I like the idea of 1 token per run as well as the usual tiny chance to get a helm. Then maybe 20-25 tokens gets you are random helm, and 30-40 gets you one of your choice.

Wizzo91 · February 2016

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Every once in a while if spindle is daily I do 5-10 runs on that day (because of the ease finding groups).

Since v16 I've prob. ran Spindle 100+ times and the helmet never dropped.

Just today I ran it 6 times. Not one member of those groups had it drop.

The RNG System in this game is terrible. Guess why nobody runs with the dungeon Sets from IC? It would take literally hundreds of runs to get your set with at least decent traits.

Token System is the way to go in a modern MMO imo.

@Wizzo91 I Ran Spindleclutch last night and got the helm. My second medium divines in about 10 attempts. Rng is rng and way healthier from a player engagement standpoint. I already have a few guild mates that no longer do pledges because they already have the monster helm / set gear in the traits they desire. Would be worse with tokens as everyone would quickly farm what they need/want. It adds nothing to player engangement

@Seido_Tensei_
I guess we have to agree to disagree. RNG is a terrible game design IMO. BoP is a different topic due to Guild Traders and market manipulations.

The Vet dungeons are so laughable easy that you can finish most of them in 10-15min without a tank or take a bit longer with 2-3 people. It's a mindless grind, nothing more.

Making assumptions here... but I think most people would prefer Tokens or at least a "Bind-On-Group" kind of System.

Unsent.Soul · February 2016

Surprised op hasn't been back to defend his claim.

I'm sure 1k dungeons ran is more like a couple dozen.