Negate Magic - The skill that no longer Negates much at all

Waffennacht · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

I don't see why that would make it overpowered when you would have to sacrifice an ultimate which deals damage. Its only utility that I ever see is large group vs large group. Maybe that'd be a little over the top, but negate in and of itself doesn't actually win a battle, it just briefly redistributes a tactical advantage in a fixed area.

Not meaning this offensively but if you look at what you are saying it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone being pounded by multiple ultimates could use their ultimate which does no damage to counter them.

What he is saying, is that in a group setting, if one player has negate then the entire other group's ultimates are stopped. He is saying that is OP. The fact that one player of one group could negate the other group's entire ultimates (or a percentage there of)

What you would get is each group running a negate guy and no one could use ults. Or a group wouldn't have negate and get destroyed easily.

Except you can CC break negate or just walk 6 steps in any direction and you aren't in a negate field anymore. The only thing I see it doing is interfering with stack on crown mass ultibombs - which isn't a bad thing. Its a terrible game design.

Increasing the frequency of negates would mean players would have to engage in more strategic battlefield movement because it would be hazardous to simply mass charge people.

Also running negate in its current state as part of a group can be a serious inconvenience - it puts you at a disadvantage if you are separated for instance by sucking up an ulti slot.

Just explaining what he was saying. I personally do not have an opinion as I've never used it. I can't justify using anything other than overload honestly

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

danno8 wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

I agree, but the duration should be less than what it is/was if they reinstate the condition that you can not drop any AoE inside a negate.

10 seconds was too long to own an area. Negates all ground based AoE's, silences everyone who is in or walks in, and 3-4 seconds of no ground AoE placement is pretty strong. 3-4 seconds in this game is a long time.

10 seconds to defend an area is too long and yet 30 seconds is not too long to damage an area...

Ankael07 · January 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

There should be no break free of Eclipse either, but there is. I'm in agreement with you though. Both skills are being greatly undermined for the same reasons.

except eclipse is spammable but Negate Magic is a high cost ultimate

Cinbri · January 2016

Ankael07 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

There should be no break free of Eclipse either, but there is. I'm in agreement with you though. Both skills are being greatly undermined for the same reasons.

except eclipse is spammable but Negate Magic is a high cost ultimate

And in the end - both are useless.

ToRelax · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

I don't see why that would make it overpowered when you would have to sacrifice an ultimate which deals damage. Its only utility that I ever see is large group vs large group. Maybe that'd be a little over the top, but negate in and of itself doesn't actually win a battle, it just briefly redistributes a tactical advantage in a fixed area.

Not meaning this offensively but if you look at what you are saying it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone being pounded by multiple ultimates could use their ultimate which does no damage to counter them.

What he is saying, is that in a group setting, if one player has negate then the entire other group's ultimates are stopped. He is saying that is OP. The fact that one player of one group could negate the other group's entire ultimates (or a percentage there of)

What you would get is each group running a negate guy and no one could use ults. Or a group wouldn't have negate and get destroyed easily.

Except you can CC break negate or just walk 6 steps in any direction and you aren't in a negate field anymore. The only thing I see it doing is interfering with stack on crown mass ultibombs - which isn't a bad thing. Its a terrible game design.

Increasing the frequency of negates would mean players would have to engage in more strategic battlefield movement because it would be hazardous to simply mass charge people.

Also running negate in its current state as part of a group can be a serious inconvenience - it puts you at a disadvantage if you are separated for instance by sucking up an ulti slot.

Walking a few steps aside doesn't really help if one guy can store up to 6 ultimates - especially if you have several Sorcerers in one group.

Cinbri wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

There should be no break free of Eclipse either, but there is. I'm in agreement with you though. Both skills are being greatly undermined for the same reasons.

except eclipse is spammable but Negate Magic is a high cost ultimate

And in the end - both are useless.

Well Eclipse is supposed to reflect all single target spells - that's pretty devastating to magicka builds since it's spammable, so it needs a counter that is easily accessible.
However, it's 1.) bugged and rarely even reflects anything (absorbing/negating things instead) and 2.) nerfed to one target, without any reason whatsoever.

PS: there are more bugs with it, like the speed bug and not being breakable or having any effect at all unless the full animation appears (wich is the exception).

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

too much to use the official quote I can't find your quotes in that mess.

"Walking a few steps aside doesn't really help if one guy can store up to 6 ultimates - especially if you have several Sorcerers in one group."

if you use any ultimate besides overload it reduces ultimate to zero and it is called tactics people should use them

"Well Eclipse is supposed to reflect all single target spells - that's pretty devastating to magicka builds since it's spammable, so it needs a counter that is easily accessible."

It's not spammable if the target has CC immunity it will not work and it gives CC immunity

Cinbri · January 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

Well Eclipse is supposed to reflect all single target spells - that's pretty devastating to magicka builds since it's spammable, so it needs a counter that is easily accessible.
However, it's 1.) bugged and rarely even reflects anything (absorbing/negating things instead) and 2.) nerfed to one target, without any reason whatsoever.

PS: there are more bugs with it, like the speed bug and not being breakable or having any effect at all unless the full animation appears (wich is the exception).

Sadly it has much more bugs.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

If they want to keep it the way it is, they should at least increase the duration and make it so you can't negate a negate.

Fellenore_Ewalion · January 2016

Nah Suppression field isn't that bad. Overload, Atronach, Suppression... My sorc cant complain.

ToRelax · January 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

too much to use the official quote I can't find your quotes in that mess.

[...]

"Well Eclipse is supposed to reflect all single target spells - that's pretty devastating to magicka builds since it's spammable, so it needs a counter that is easily accessible."

It's not spammable if the target has CC immunity it will not work and it gives CC immunity

That's the counter I was talking about... It being spammable makes purging pretty useless as a counter is what I am saying.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

All the nerfs cause be undone but Stamina ground AoEs immunity should stay Caltrops and Volley being negated with Negate Magic is bs it shouldn't negate stamina or stun.

Lucky28 · January 2016

Negate used to Negate prox det as well, not anymore. it's becoming less and less useful for whatever reason.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

All the nerfs cause be undone but Stamina ground AoEs immunity should stay Caltrops and Volley being negated with Negate Magic is bs it shouldn't negate stamina or stun.

It should stun. there are multiple ults that do damage and stun. Negate doesn't even have any damage to it, Negate is supposed to be an ult that is used to create an opening, it barely does that anymore. the stun only makes sense.

Kova · January 2016

It would definitely put sorcs back into group play and out of the solo focus if negate was restored to it's former glory.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

Lucky28 wrote: »

Negate used to Negate prox det as well, not anymore. it's becoming less and less useful for whatever reason.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

All the nerfs cause be undone but Stamina ground AoEs immunity should stay Caltrops and Volley being negated with Negate Magic is bs it shouldn't negate stamina or stun.

It should stun. there are multiple ults that do damage and stun. Negate doesn't even have any damage to it, Negate is supposed to be an ult that is used to create an opening, it barely does that anymore. the stun only makes sense.

I feel that negate should stop all Ultimate cause they are all magic, besides Dragon Leap it's physical damage. Any power that cost magic should be stopped permanently for the WHOLE time walk in no magic walk out magic walk back in no magic. Magic casted on targets cause do zero damage I think that would be very powerful even without the stun.

Jar_Ek · January 2016

What if negate actually negated all magic, including your own and was restored to its former state? So fighting in it would be dangerous.

Derra · January 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Negate is still useful. However, I agree that it needs a buff. I think a good balance between the super negates we used to have and now would be to add back in the actual "negate" feature for the duration of the ultimate. Only having it dispel upon casting is what's a little underwhelming to me.

It would be in a perfectly fine spot if it would cost half of what it´s now.

ToRelax · January 2016

Derra wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Negate is still useful. However, I agree that it needs a buff. I think a good balance between the super negates we used to have and now would be to add back in the actual "negate" feature for the duration of the ultimate. Only having it dispel upon casting is what's a little underwhelming to me.

It would be in a perfectly fine spot if it would cost half of what it´s now.

I disagree - while in larger groups it's still useful, making it cheaper won't warrant a spot for those fights it's not particularly useful in already. Especially when you have to kick out either an AoE damage ult or a 3rd bar.