Negate Magic - The skill that no longer Negates much at all

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2016

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2016

It's a AOE what you expect ? Look at Dragon Knight standers or Gravity Orb. All though morph to shifting standers and atleast replace it once and gravity orbs synergy can knock down players but DK:SOM power bonus and no one uses synergy that much.

Yea ultimates that aren't so ultimate.

Darkonflare15 · January 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

Still use the stun and damage mitigation one in pve. So still does have uses but I would for it to negate more place aoes. It does not seem to work on any new content.

olsborg · January 2016

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

Waseem · January 2016

its a negate magic that doesnt negate magic

Witar · January 2016

Like you slot negate over overload

heystreethawk · January 2016

Negate still has the potential to determine the outcome of a fight in PvP. I agree that it should be more powerful, although perhaps not to the extent that it was in 1.5. In particular, I would love to see it have more utility in dungeons; you can already ignore so many mechanics by having high enough DPS, utilizing negate would feel a lot more clever and interactive.

Kuratius · January 2016

I'd expect it to be changed when they next overhaul the sorc class ultimates; currently it's rarely really needed, has a confusing description and only provides minor buffs. And in addition it actually drains your ultimate without doing anything if your ping is above 200+ ms!
Storm atro is a powerful ultimate, but not applicable to most trial fights because it blocks targeting, and the synergy is too finicky to be really useful.

Overload is the only really "good" ultimate sorcs have atm, and it being a dps crutch isn't really a nice place.

Draxys · January 2016

Negate is still useful. However, I agree that it needs a buff. I think a good balance between the super negates we used to have and now would be to add back in the actual "negate" feature for the duration of the ultimate. Only having it dispel upon casting is what's a little underwhelming to me.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

The worst part is that players can apparently "break free" to negate the negate effect seriously WTF! are people seriously so stupid that they can't figure how to walk out of it!

BigTone · January 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

BigTone · January 2016

Also, I agree that negate should have some more usefulness in PvE

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Negate Magic is pretty much a useless Ultimate in both PVE and PVP now. Its been nerfed into uselessness.

Lets look at the nerfs so far:

1. Casting Ground based AOES inside the bubble are no longer Negated.
2. Dispelled effects no longer heal.
3. It no longer stuns players inside it.
4. It no longer dispels Ground based effects like Molag Kena Lighting Pillars EVEN THOUGH ITS SUPPOSED TO AS THATS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SKILL

So whats next ZOS, better make sure you can't Negate Bogdan's the Nightflames fire effects any longer in Elden Hollow, I mean Negate Magic isn;t supposed to Negate anything at all obviously since you continually nerf the very things the skill is supposed to Negate to begin with.

The should change the name of the spell. I have a hard time finding uses for it anymore outside of PvP. They should at least increase the duration.

Cathexis · January 2016

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

jhharvest · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

That sounds nice. Maybe make it a pbaoe toggle that drains your ultimate counter by some amount every time it negates something?

Draxys · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

Jar_Ek · January 2016

Personally I would be happy if it provided the caster with a decent defence, either a major protection (mitigation buff) or the equivalent of a powerful magicka absorption on top of the current one shot aoe effect - at least then it might help me stay alive against a boss.

Brrrofski · January 2016

I used it on my stam Sorc for a while in the sewers. Slotted dawnbreaker then.

Can be pretty useful in the sewers to be fair. Drop that on a group along with someone dropping one or two other ults. Synergies nicely. Also works well with steel tornado as the passives from dual weild apply more damage to silenced enemies.

TwoFingersInCider · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

It's a AOE what you expect ? Look at Dragon Knight standers or Gravity Orb. All though morph to shifting standers and atleast replace it once and gravity orbs synergy can knock down players but DK:SOM power bonus and no one uses synergy that much.

Yea ultimates that aren't so ultimate.

Wrong most of my "sorc" dps guild buddies use the synergy with my SOM.. You know why.. It's not for the damage(well almost with the damage) but for synergy undaunted passive.. Gives them back those magicka health and stamina + it gives them another passive bonus every time they activate a synergy

Edit: quick question... Should I use SOM or solar prison.. I know that 20% increase damage you deal and reduced damage you take is awesome.. + that 30% reduce healing is insane..while solar prison(Nova) gives only 30% reduced damage taken but insanely high synergy damage. 5 base magick damage for 17s + synergy 11 magic damage vs base 8 magic damage for 8 sec with 26 base magick damage.. What do you guyz think? I know you'll SOM no matter what because of that healing reduction but not a lot of dungeon have adds that heal.. Well I guess I'll just use solar prison of there's no adds that heal and SOM other way around.. But I'm thinking I'll use SOM 100% because most of the dungeon is easy even you don't need a tank or need a tank who just taunt them and deal dmage at the same time, SOM helps.. And most of new dungeon has a lot of healer-adds while dishing amount of dmage specially WGT.

Let me know what you guyz think. Thx

EgoRush · January 2016

Negate was nerfed too far, I agree. One morph does give an exclusive buff though that can't be obtained anywhere else; I forget the name but it increases the spell penetration of people inside the field.

Considering the old style Negate is still used by certain mobs/bosses in PvE (Battlemages and Stage 7 boss in vDSA) it's clear the changes to Negate were made due to people QQing in PvP where it did seem OP (what raid group didn't have a strict Negate rotation?). I'm trying to think how it can be improved. Perhaps only negate a certain number of effects after it is placed - like DK wings reflect 4 projectiles, maybe Negate could clear the field then absorb X more effects. Or just have a shorter duration overall.

But yes, they need to make this ultimate more useful much like other ultimates (Crescent/Empowered Sweep from Templar for one...).

eliisra · January 2016

They definitely need to do something with Negate Magic. Right now it's mostly countering stuff no one is using.

Negate itself or the idea of the skill is good. But Negate doesn't affect even half the skills in the current meta, that's the problem.

You cant Negate a 24-man raid spamming Bombard&Steel Tornado. Only one affected by the Negate will be their healers, that still only needs to cc break and than continue to pop Barrier, Purge and heal.

As far as ultimate goes, people have moved from using long duration ones to instant like Dawnbreaker, Meteor or Take Flight( because all DK's these days are stamina). Instant burst ultimates only get soaked by Negate if the player is stupid enough to drop them ones the purple bubble is already up.

I rarely see duration based ultimates like Nova, Standard, Veil of Blades or Storm Atronach in PvP, that would be removed by Negate.

Joy_Division · January 2016

Every RPG I ever played had a dispel magic effect that stripped enemies of their buffs. It was feared and a huge incentive not to stack together and lose every single buff in your group.

Except this one. This one that has a notoriously stale and uninspired main strategy of "stack on crown."

Cinbri · January 2016

Its called "sorcs got templar treatment"

Kuratius · January 2016

I'd try to make the devs comment on it during the next dev stream, if you want it to receive any attention in the short term.

Minno · January 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Every RPG I ever played had a dispel magic effect that stripped enemies of their buffs. It was feared and a huge incentive not to stack together and lose every single buff in your group.

Except this one. This one that has a notoriously stale and uninspired main strategy of "stack on crown."

I always imagined ESO to eventually be an opera of buff and debuff fights where only the dedicated healer class could dispeal all effects.

The current standard for both pvp and pve favors pure dmg and its stale mostly because that's how other mmo's work.

Cathexis · January 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

I don't see why that would make it overpowered when you would have to sacrifice an ultimate which deals damage. Its only utility that I ever see is large group vs large group. Maybe that'd be a little over the top, but negate in and of itself doesn't actually win a battle, it just briefly redistributes a tactical advantage in a fixed area.

Not meaning this offensively but if you look at what you are saying it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone being pounded by multiple ultimates could use their ultimate which does no damage to counter them.

Waffennacht · January 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

I don't see why that would make it overpowered when you would have to sacrifice an ultimate which deals damage. Its only utility that I ever see is large group vs large group. Maybe that'd be a little over the top, but negate in and of itself doesn't actually win a battle, it just briefly redistributes a tactical advantage in a fixed area.

Not meaning this offensively but if you look at what you are saying it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone being pounded by multiple ultimates could use their ultimate which does no damage to counter them.

What he is saying, is that in a group setting, if one player has negate then the entire other group's ultimates are stopped. He is saying that is OP. The fact that one player of one group could negate the other group's entire ultimates (or a percentage there of)

What you would get is each group running a negate guy and no one could use ults. Or a group wouldn't have negate and get destroyed easily.

Cathexis · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Should make it like overload where you can cast it multiple times from your pool of 1000 and then make it cost like 150~ per cast. Considering you can cc break it, and it does no damage. And it should be negating things it should be able to negate that it currently doesn't like boss effects or ground aoes etc.

On the topic of sorc ults they gotta double the initial damage on atro for it to be really worth using. Meteor is miles better. Esp when you compare the passive and active secondary benefits of using/slotting them. The only time I ever slot atro now is for the regen passive to free a fifth skill at the expense of an ult slot.

No, that would make it by far the most powerful ability in the game, as it still dispels upon cast. You would be able to negate multiple enemy ultimates from just one person's negate. The change it needs is to have it negate any ground effect inside it for the duration of the cast, or until the negate is negated.

I don't see why that would make it overpowered when you would have to sacrifice an ultimate which deals damage. Its only utility that I ever see is large group vs large group. Maybe that'd be a little over the top, but negate in and of itself doesn't actually win a battle, it just briefly redistributes a tactical advantage in a fixed area.

Not meaning this offensively but if you look at what you are saying it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone being pounded by multiple ultimates could use their ultimate which does no damage to counter them.

What he is saying, is that in a group setting, if one player has negate then the entire other group's ultimates are stopped. He is saying that is OP. The fact that one player of one group could negate the other group's entire ultimates (or a percentage there of)

What you would get is each group running a negate guy and no one could use ults. Or a group wouldn't have negate and get destroyed easily.

Except you can CC break negate or just walk 6 steps in any direction and you aren't in a negate field anymore. The only thing I see it doing is interfering with stack on crown mass ultibombs - which isn't a bad thing. Its a terrible game design.

Increasing the frequency of negates would mean players would have to engage in more strategic battlefield movement because it would be hazardous to simply mass charge people.

Also running negate in its current state as part of a group can be a serious inconvenience - it puts you at a disadvantage if you are separated for instance by sucking up an ulti slot.

danno8 · January 2016

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

I agree, but the duration should be less than what it is/was if they reinstate the condition that you can not drop any AoE inside a negate.

10 seconds was too long to own an area. Negates all ground based AoE's, silences everyone who is in or walks in, and 3-4 seconds of no ground AoE placement is pretty strong. 3-4 seconds in this game is a long time.

Witar · January 2016

C'mon really? Sorcs ask for more buffs?

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

BigTone wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Its one of the most useless ults in the game.

This is completely false.Despite the countless nerfs, a well placed negate is often the difference between a win and loss in large group PvP.

That being said, the skill has been nerfed to the ground and needs a buff. You should not be able to cast magicka abilities inside a negate. The should be no "break free" of negate. You should not be able to drop a nova inside of a negate.

There should be no break free of Eclipse either, but there is. I'm in agreement with you though. Both skills are being greatly undermined for the same reasons.