PVP sorc survivability

Asherons_Call · January 2016

Need some advice to get my sorc to feel less squishy. Glass cannon works fine in PVE but the complete opposite in PVP. When I get attacked if I don't spam my shields I die. I have no room to throw out any offensive abilities. The only time I can throw down some offense is if my guildies are taking the focus of enemy attacks. Only then can I stay back and nuke.

I'm considering crafting a gold heavy set stacked with shields and I know I'll lose a ton of damage.. But my train of thought is that less damage output is better than lying dead on the battlefield!

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. I'm still very new to PVP but am having a blast so far

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Heavy armour is useless because shields always have 0 reistance.

Do you pump bastion full of cp? whats your max magicka at?

I like to have my ward on the same bar as frags so even if i'm re casting shields i can sstill proc and frag and get some high dmg cc in.

Posts you stats/gear and build.

Asherons_Call · January 2016

Thanks, going off of memory:

I'm right at 300 CP and currently have 85/100 put into bastion

Other cp trees have points into thaumaterge, elemental, spell shield, Magic regen, reduced spell cost,

Max magicka around 35k

5piece divines gold julianos - 3 pieces enchanted w/magicka - 2 w/health

3 piece divines Magnus (2 purple, gold nirnhoned staff)

3 piece arcane willpower jewelry - spell damage enchants

Mundus stone varies.. I've tried shadow, thief, atronach

About 3k spell damage and 1400 regen

ku5h · January 2016

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there

Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

Asherons_Call · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Heavy armour is useless because shields always have 0 reistance.

Do you pump bastion full of cp? whats your max magicka at?

I like to have my ward on the same bar as frags so even if i'm re casting shields i can sstill proc and frag and get some high dmg cc in.

Posts you stats/gear and build.

good idea about moving shield to my attack bar. Thank you

Stats from memory posted above

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Thanks, going off of memory:

I'm right at 300 CP and currently have 85/100 put into bastion

Other cp trees have points into thaumaterge, elemental, spell shield, Magic regen, reduced spell cost,

Max magicka around 35k

5piece divines gold julianos - 3 pieces enchanted w/magicka - 2 w/health

3 piece divines Magnus (2 purple, gold nirnhoned staff)

3 piece arcane willpower jewelry - spell damage enchants

Mundus stone varies.. I've tried shadow, thief, atronach

About 3k spell damage and 1400 regen

Hmm i'd stick with atro for regen.

What hp you at? Sorc can get away with around 18k.

Just cast shields more i guess, if your vs a stamina don't bother with harness just use hardened ward.

Using Ward on your attack bar really is useful. An 8k+ frag to the face when they think your on the defensive really changes a fight.

Asherons_Call · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Thanks, going off of memory:

I'm right at 300 CP and currently have 85/100 put into bastion

Other cp trees have points into thaumaterge, elemental, spell shield, Magic regen, reduced spell cost,

Max magicka around 35k

5piece divines gold julianos - 3 pieces enchanted w/magicka - 2 w/health

3 piece divines Magnus (2 purple, gold nirnhoned staff)

3 piece arcane willpower jewelry - spell damage enchants

Mundus stone varies.. I've tried shadow, thief, atronach

About 3k spell damage and 1400 regen

Hmm i'd stick with atro for regen.

What hp you at? Sorc can get away with around 18k.

Just cast shields more i guess, if your vs a stamina don't bother with harness just use hardened ward.

Using Ward on your attack bar really is useful. An 8k+ frag to the face when they think your on the defensive really changes a fight.

Thanks Lee, yea I really like atronach for the unlimited magicka. The more I think about it I believe the small change of simply moving my shield to the first bar could make all of the difference I need

ral · January 2016

Lol that's a normal feeling when your not used to pvp. With time you will understand the power of the sorc.

but yeah. Watch some sorcs video online or go duel so you can learn what you need to do during a fight against specific classes.

Asherons_Call · January 2016

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

Will do, thanks! I know most of my issue is L2P, I have no delusions about that

ku5h · January 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

Will do, thanks! I know most of my issue is L2P, I have no delusions about that

That is nice, even kinda refreshing to see on this forum. So, you already passed first obstacle, understanding where the problem lies. PvP in this game really needs to get use to. First learning your class, then what are other classes capable of and how to counter them. It takes time, but im sure you will become one of those OP sorc i hate so much

DRXHarbinger · January 2016

Change the magnus. Nerenith makes melee attacks run away and an overloading Kena set changes the pace. Swords are for buffing only works much better for an all out attack bar for your staff. Frost staves work really well with the small shield you get from heavies and impulse slows them down a little too. Destructive clench stops everyone in thier tracks and wrecks thier stamina pool breaking out of it. But elemental ring or frost ring and nerenith makes a lush combo imo.

DRXHarbinger · January 2016

But keep ward and surge on your attack bar. Use frags, ring or impulse for your attacks. Are you a high crit build? Skoria could come to mind if you're around 60% crit.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Change the magnus. Nerenith makes melee attacks run away and an overloading Kena set changes the pace. Swords are for buffing only works much better for an all out attack bar for your staff. Frost staves work really well with the small shield you get from heavies and impulse slows them down a little too. Destructive clench stops everyone in thier tracks and wrecks thier stamina pool breaking out of it. But elemental ring or frost ring and nerenith makes a lush combo imo.

You know he's talking about pvp right?

Lexxypwns · January 2016

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

you're drunk, even if a stam DK isn't exploiting the axe bleed/reverb bash CC bug they're still by far more tanky than a sorc. no sorc, regardless of skill, has a hardened ward big enough to tank even 2 competent players, much less more

Edit: in general, a lot of this info is bad.

Are you using weapon swaps to animation cancel?

For example, if I'm taking heavy pressure I'll cast hardened ward, weapon swap, activate curse, weapon swap, cast a second shield depending on situation, weapon swap for a frag proc if I have it or to streak for CC. The key to this method is, once you know the ability is activated, weapon swap immediately. I do this as opposed to having hardened ward on my offensive bar because I want to use all 5 of those slots for skills that actually deal damage, while running hardened ward on your front bar is definitely an option, I feel that once you get used to using weapon swapping to animation cancel you'll find it unnecessary and that it reduces your overall damage potential in pvp

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

you're drunk, even if a stam DK isn't exploiting the axe bleed/reverb bash CC bug they're still by far more tanky than a sorc. no sorc, regardless of skill, has a hardened ward big enough to tank even 2 competent players, much less more

But a sorc can be really tanky and still kill those two players?

A dk tank can just hold block and wait too die.

My sorc has a 12k ward, can't remember my magicka shields strength but it's more than sufficient to tank 2 people. It's not like i'm going to just stand there, i'd stun with BE/ root with mines/ frag to knock down and eventually just quicklu burst one down.

Unsent.Soul · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Thanks, going off of memory:

I'm right at 300 CP and currently have 85/100 put into bastion

Other cp trees have points into thaumaterge, elemental, spell shield, Magic regen, reduced spell cost,

Max magicka around 35k

5piece divines gold julianos - 3 pieces enchanted w/magicka - 2 w/health

3 piece divines Magnus (2 purple, gold nirnhoned staff)

3 piece arcane willpower jewelry - spell damage enchants

Mundus stone varies.. I've tried shadow, thief, atronach

About 3k spell damage and 1400 regen

Hmm i'd stick with atro for regen.

What hp you at? Sorc can get away with around 18k.

Just cast shields more i guess, if your vs a stamina don't bother with harness just use hardened ward.

Using Ward on your attack bar really is useful. An 8k+ frag to the face when they think your on the defensive really changes a fight.

Pretty much this. One thing I've gotten used too from PvE is using a diff. Mundus than atro. I put 100 points into magicka recovery(cp) switch stone to mage/apprentice/ thief and run overload on dual wield bar.

Overload bar has magelight, execute, hardened, conversion, and my last skill is situational.

My magicka recovery is right at 1k which isn't great but I can pop overload, spam conversion for magicka, turn off overload, and I'm good to go.

Lexxypwns · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

you're drunk, even if a stam DK isn't exploiting the axe bleed/reverb bash CC bug they're still by far more tanky than a sorc. no sorc, regardless of skill, has a hardened ward big enough to tank even 2 competent players, much less more

But a sorc can be really tanky and still kill those two players?

A dk tank can just hold block and wait too die.

My sorc has a 12k ward, can't remember my magicka shields strength but it's more than sufficient to tank 2 people. It's not like i'm going to just stand there, i'd stun with BE/ root with mines/ frag to knock down and eventually just quicklu burst one down.

Nah, stam DK just needs you at like 75% health to WB - leap - execute kill you and their burst is much more difficult to deal with than a sorcs burst. IE, can't be purged, is much more difficult to LOS because of WB having broken hit detection, doesn't require any particularly great timing.

Harness is totally useless against stamina builds, so its too situational to count on for true tankiness imo, defensive rune is a better ability for a sorc in the current meta imo, unless you're usually fighting organized proxy det groups

Makkir · January 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

Will do, thanks! I know most of my issue is L2P, I have no delusions about that

You can also run defensive rune as you adjust to Cyrodiil.

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

Asherons_Call wrote: »

When I get attacked if I don't spam my shields I die.

That's the key bro.

Lexxypwns · January 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Asherons_Call wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

Will do, thanks! I know most of my issue is L2P, I have no delusions about that

You can also run defensive rune as you adjust to Cyrodiil.

Defensive rune is love

Makkir · January 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

For example, if I'm taking heavy pressure I'll cast hardened ward, weapon swap, activate curse, weapon swap, cast a second shield depending on situation, weapon swap for a frag proc if I have it or to streak for CC. The key to this method is, once you know the ability is activated, weapon swap immediately. I do this as opposed to having hardened ward on my offensive bar because I want to use all 5 of those slots for skills that actually deal damage, while running hardened ward on your front bar is definitely an option, I feel that once you get used to using weapon swapping to animation cancel you'll find it unnecessary and that it reduces your overall damage potential in pvp

When wep swap works correctly

Lexxypwns · January 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

For example, if I'm taking heavy pressure I'll cast hardened ward, weapon swap, activate curse, weapon swap, cast a second shield depending on situation, weapon swap for a frag proc if I have it or to streak for CC. The key to this method is, once you know the ability is activated, weapon swap immediately. I do this as opposed to having hardened ward on my offensive bar because I want to use all 5 of those slots for skills that actually deal damage, while running hardened ward on your front bar is definitely an option, I feel that once you get used to using weapon swapping to animation cancel you'll find it unnecessary and that it reduces your overall damage potential in pvp

When wep swap works correctly

I usually don't have issues with that on console, its a problem I had pretty often on PC though and something I'm quite familiar with and you're correct, it totally ruins this setup, but you just have to adapt and hope that lag is affecting your opponent equally.

EDIT: off topic, but did something happen to Ezareth to prompt that #freeezareth in you sig?

Asherons_Call · January 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

For example, if I'm taking heavy pressure I'll cast hardened ward, weapon swap, activate curse, weapon swap, cast a second shield depending on situation, weapon swap for a frag proc if I have it or to streak for CC. The key to this method is, once you know the ability is activated, weapon swap immediately. I do this as opposed to having hardened ward on my offensive bar because I want to use all 5 of those slots for skills that actually deal damage, while running hardened ward on your front bar is definitely an option, I feel that once you get used to using weapon swapping to animation cancel you'll find it unnecessary and that it reduces your overall damage potential in pvp

When wep swap works correctly

Yea that's a problem that I have. When in the heat of battle weapon swap is unreliable at best. If there is any kind of lag then it will either not swap at all or it will register twice and swap back to my first bar.

Tankqull · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Yea sorcs are having a hard time in Cyro this days. Ward is meh, streak is useless, daedric mines do less dmg then a point blank fart in the face... so yea no survivability there
Just kidding there!
Sorc is hardest to kill in PVP period(.) Just check some vids on youtube and try to incorporate those rotations to your style.

you're drunk, even if a stam DK isn't exploiting the axe bleed/reverb bash CC bug they're still by far more tanky than a sorc. no sorc, regardless of skill, has a hardened ward big enough to tank even 2 competent players, much less more

But a sorc can be really tanky and still kill those two players?

A dk tank can just hold block and wait too die.

My sorc has a 12k ward, can't remember my magicka shields strength but it's more than sufficient to tank 2 people. It's not like i'm going to just stand there, i'd stun with BE/ root with mines/ frag to knock down and eventually just quicklu burst one down.

only if they are crap but then can any class...

Leandor · January 2016

It's been said in a manner above, but I'll summarize for clarity:

Sorc is not tanky. You use your shields to give you the time to outmaneuvre your opponents. BE alone isn't overpowered. Hardened ward alone isn't overpowered. CF alone is neither. The combination is.

Put these on your primary bar: streak, hardened ward, force pulse, frags, inner light, meteor.
Use these on your secondary: healing ward, mines, defensive rune, proximity det, inner light, greater atronach.

Use food over drinks and use blue magicka/stamina food. Build for max magicka rather than max spelldamage. Ward yourself, use pulse to proc frags, streak when targeted, always through opponents never away from them. Prox + pulse + frag for burst.

Make sure defensive rune is active while travelling, that gives you time to react on ganks. If attacked in general, block, ward, mines, prox. Greater atronach if nightblades to unstealth. Keep defensive rune up until you have established upper hand.

Weakness is reflect spammers, change out pulse for wrath and mines for curse to counter dks.

Train. 90% of sorc play is training.

Oh yeah, I found tumbling (CP to reduce dodge and break free cost) to be massively useful on my sorc. I have 30 in there. No points in regen, all in cost reduction. Also cost reduction over spelldamage on jewellery. Elemental expert only helps with force pulse, and since it's my filler I haven't bothered with any points in there. Spell shield is useless since it doesn't help your ward. Same for resistant. Put all into elemental defender and hardy, evenly distributed. First 50 red points go into bastion of course.

Asherons_Call · January 2016

Leandor wrote: »

It's been said in a manner above, but I'll summarize for clarity:

Sorc is not tanky. You use your shields to give you the time to outmaneuvre your opponents. BE alone isn't overpowered. Hardened ward alone isn't overpowered. CF alone is neither. The combination is.

Put these on your primary bar: streak, hardened ward, force pulse, frags, inner light, meteor.
Use these on your secondary: healing ward, mines, defensive rune, proximity det, inner light, greater atronach.

Use food over drinks and use blue magicka/stamina food. Build for max magicka rather than max spelldamage. Ward yourself, use pulse to proc frags, streak when targeted, always through opponents never away from them. Prox + pulse + frag for burst.

Make sure defensive rune is active while travelling, that gives you time to react on ganks. If attacked in general, block, ward, mines, prox. Greater atronach if nightblades to unstealth. Keep defensive rune up until you have established upper hand.

Weakness is reflect spammers, change out pulse for wrath and mines for curse to counter dks.

Train. 90% of sorc play is training.

Oh yeah, I found tumbling (CP to reduce dodge and break free cost) to be massively useful on my sorc. I have 30 in there. No points in regen, all in cost reduction. Also cost reduction over spelldamage on jewellery. Elemental expert only helps with force pulse, and since it's my filler I haven't bothered with any points in there. Spell shield is useless since it doesn't help your ward. Same for resistant. Put all into elemental defender and hardy, evenly distributed. First 50 red points go into bastion of course.

Wow thank you for the time you took here. Great info to soak in. And yes I am very aware of the reflect spammers.. I have taken a proccd critical c frag to the face several times

DannyLV702 · January 2016

I haven't read it, but it seems you've got a lot of help already. Let me just mention that tri food is your best friend!!

leepalmer95 · January 2016

You run a sorc without harness or curse? I always preferred dawnbreaker of smiting Cheaper and has higher dmg if you go dual wield (because all in Thaum) on my Dmg bar and either overload or meteor on my second bar.

Also btw OP if you run dual wield swap out pulse with webs, though dual wield is only really effective with Magicka det in my opinion.

But yeah sorc are very customisable.

Thelon · January 2016

There's lots of approaches to a successful sorc. To illustrate this, I'll juxtapose my approach against that of @Leandor above:

Leandor wrote: »

Sorc is not tanky.

lol. Team up with some nightbraids, get people to chase you, and play defensive until you're ready to go on the attack. You can see this approach in all of my PvP vids.

Leandor wrote: »

Put these on your primary bar: streak, hardened ward, force pulse, frags, inner light, meteor.
Use these on your secondary: healing ward, mines, defensive rune, proximity det, inner light, greater atronach.

Try loading your primary bar with your offensive skills, and your off bar with your defensive skills. This will let you go from a defensive, tanky, dirty dirty blink mage to a high-burst DPS build with a single weapon swap. Always use Energy Overload as one of your ultimates. Even if you don't like overload, access to a third skill bar is a no-brainer.

Leandor wrote: »

Use food over drinks and use blue magicka/stamina food.

Purple food will allow you to have enough stamina to break free / dodge roll often while running with an acceptable amount of health. Your choice of food would, of course, depend on your chosen gear sets and enchants. Use food to offset the greatest weakness in your build once you're done gearing. For most sorcs, stamina will be one of the issues to be addressed.

Leandor wrote: »

Oh yeah, I found tumbling (CP to reduce dodge and break free cost) to be massively useful on my sorc. I have 30 in there. No points in regen, all in cost reduction. Also cost reduction over spelldamage on jewellery.

Here is where running purple food would help considerably. This would allow you to use CP for resource management (Arcanist + Magician) as opposed to stamina management (Tumbling). This would let you switch those jewelry enchants back to spell power and allow you to run a damage-based mundus stone (i.e The Thief) as opposed to a resource-based mundus stone (i.e Atronach.)

Leandor wrote: »

Elemental expert only helps with force pulse

I agree, if you're focusing on magic-based damage (curse + freg + proxy det. + dawnbreaker) focus on Thaumaturge. However, if you're focusing on Overload, max out Elemental Expert.

Leovolao · January 2016

I'll go over to some of what you said because I don't agree with it:

Depends on the players you are facing if a sorc is tanky or not, against a couple decent players you can certaintly tank their damage if you go full turtle mode.

As a new player you are gonna struggle with stam, go with purple food and shoot for 35k magicka, 20k hp and 13k stam minimum.
Build for spell damage actually, if you with regen and cost reduction plus the set of skills this guy is telling you to run, prox+pulse+frag is not a burst. It's a wet noodle being thrown at your enemy's face.

Also, elemental passives are kinda meh imo, overload has always felt wonky for me so i've never used it. I replaced force pulse for tangling webs on the undaunted skill line, does more damage, has a nasty snare and it's magic damage so you don't have to split your cps into different trees.

Here's the part where I shamelessly promote myself and link a thread to a video of mine doing my sorc thing:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243067/tea-pots-vid-numero-4-i-think

Leandor wrote: »

It's been said in a manner above, but I'll summarize for clarity:

Sorc is not tanky. You use your shields to give you the time to outmaneuvre your opponents. BE alone isn't overpowered. Hardened ward alone isn't overpowered. CF alone is neither. The combination is.

Put these on your primary bar: streak, hardened ward, force pulse, frags, inner light, meteor.
Use these on your secondary: healing ward, mines, defensive rune, proximity det, inner light, greater atronach.

Use food over drinks and use blue magicka/stamina food. Build for max magicka rather than max spelldamage. Ward yourself, use pulse to proc frags, streak when targeted, always through opponents never away from them. Prox + pulse + frag for burst.

Make sure defensive rune is active while travelling, that gives you time to react on ganks. If attacked in general, block, ward, mines, prox. Greater atronach if nightblades to unstealth. Keep defensive rune up until you have established upper hand.

Weakness is reflect spammers, change out pulse for wrath and mines for curse to counter dks.

Train. 90% of sorc play is training.

Oh yeah, I found tumbling (CP to reduce dodge and break free cost) to be massively useful on my sorc. I have 30 in there. No points in regen, all in cost reduction. Also cost reduction over spelldamage on jewellery. Elemental expert only helps with force pulse, and since it's my filler I haven't bothered with any points in there. Spell shield is useless since it doesn't help your ward. Same for resistant. Put all into elemental defender and hardy, evenly distributed. First 50 red points go into bastion of course.

Lol my phone went full derp mode and everything went to *** with the quotes.

PrinceBoru · January 2016

thank you for this thread @Asherons_Call.
i've been thinking the same thing.