Hardened Ward is a Crutch

Kammakazi · January 2016

— coming from a Sorc main

phillyproduct · January 2016

No its not sorc hardenward is op or shields in general because bastion in the cp tree. Their is no counter to that in the cp tree.

Healing or harden ward wouldn't be that bad if people werernt dumping 100points into bastion along with 40k mag and 3k spell damage giving you 15k pve 7k PvP shield stacking on top harness magic 16k pve 8k PvP and 7.5k pve 4times that amount if in excute range 4k pvp shield

Makkir · January 2016

phillyproduct wrote: »

No its not sorc hardenward is op or shields in general because bastion in the cp tree. Their is no counter to that in the cp tree.

You're right, that counter is found in an item set instead. Called Shield Breaker.

phillyproduct · January 2016

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

Volkodav · January 2016

Every single skill any of us rely on is a crutch.That's what they are made for.To hold us up and keep us going.

MrGigglypants · January 2016

Volkodav wrote: »

Every single skill any of us rely on is a crutch.That's what they are made for.To hold us up and keep us going.

Right... wings op bol op cloak op ward op yet people using them all still die in duels to a variety of people using a variety of abilities.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

also,

Cloak is a crutch! and BoL for Templars.

.... almost forgot that Wings are a crutch for DKs.

Volkodav · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

also,

Cloak is a crutch! and BoL for Templars.

.... almost forgot that Wings are a crutch for DKs.

Your point? I just said that all the skills the devs gave us to learn,..and learn to the best of our abilities,..are crutches.Personally,I read a lot about this cloak bit.I dont use it at all,but I use other skills to replace it.I cant think of their names at the moment though.Mostly bow skills and a few stabby ones for up close action.I NEVER hide from my opponents.I hate that.I had it happen to me in Cyrodiil with my first char,which was a DK.I swore to never do that to someone else.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

My point is that each class has quirks that look like crutches through certain goggles.

Many complain about Cloak, yet it is easily countered. Many complain about Wings, yet it is easily countered. A few complain about Breath of Life, yet it is easily countered....... see the pattern.

I have played all the classes in PVP and while Sorc is powerful in the right hands, what other class has an Armor set specifically designed to counter them?

FriedEggSandwich · January 2016

Nope. Healing ward is a crutch. Hardened ward on it's own is no sweat for an experienced opponent/stamina build. It might perpetuate the burst meta but then so will the use of any ward, or indeed any effective mitigation.

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2016

phillyproduct wrote: »

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

No one ever notice's me when i use shield breaker........ :'(

i switch between Shield Breaker and Sentry set (for my RML build). Once camo hunter is fixed i may go with shield breaker more often though.

i cant wait to see what's in store for thief's guild (class change's).

I have played all the classes in PVP and while Sorc is powerful in the right hands, what other class has an Armor set specifically designed to counter them?

What other class has a potion that directly counter's them? (Detection Potion)

Shield breaker was a crutch set to ""deal"" with sorc's because they don't know how to balance them properly. Sorc's keep telling me they got nerfed via battle spirit... yet damage was also nerfed. The only real change Sorc's have gotten since 1.6 was the Bolt Escape Nerf.

Just because Sorc's now have literally one hard counter now they all cry. You don't see ALL stamina user's complaining about no more PERMA blocking and rolling.....

It's so easy for a Sorc to just throw down mine's and use inevitable det/curse/cfrag combo's and bomb anyone.

I don't care that Sorc's are strong this way though. I don't give two cent's about the dueling scene. Sorc's who stand in their mine's are just players i forget about and move on. No sense fighting in their advantage.

OGLezard · January 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

No one ever notice's me when i use shield breaker........ :'(

i switch between Shield Breaker and Sentry set (for my RML build). Once camo hunter is fixed i may go with shield breaker more often though.

i cant wait to see what's in store for thief's guild (class change's).

I have played all the classes in PVP and while Sorc is powerful in the right hands, what other class has an Armor set specifically designed to counter them?

What other class has a potion that directly counter's them? (Detection Potion)

Shield breaker was a crutch set to ""deal"" with sorc's because they don't know how to balance them properly. Sorc's keep telling me they got nerfed via battle spirit... yet damage was also nerfed. The only real change Sorc's have gotten since 1.6 was the Bolt Escape Nerf.

Just because Sorc's now have literally one hard counter now they all cry. You don't see ALL stamina user's complaining about no more PERMA blocking and rolling.....

It's so easy for a Sorc to just throw down mine's and use inevitable det/curse/cfrag combo's and bomb anyone.

I don't care that Sorc's are strong this way though. I don't give two cent's about the dueling scene. Sorc's who stand in their mine's are just players i forget about and move on. No sense fighting in their advantage.

actually........you kind of do lulz they all want to permaderp behind shields.....which you still can, and most would LOVE to be able to vigordodgeheal from no life to full in a split second...... so yea you kind of do see a vast majority of stam users wanting these back in full force

phillyproduct · January 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

My point is that each class has quirks that look like crutches through certain goggles.

Many complain about Cloak, yet it is easily countered. Many complain about Wings, yet it is easily countered. A few complain about Breath of Life, yet it is easily countered....... see the pattern.

I have played all the classes in PVP and while Sorc is powerful in the right hands, what other class has an Armor set specifically designed to counter them?

False sorc don't have a set to counter them any and every class can shield stack harness magic with healingward stacks and I've run into plenty of magic user nb dk and temp that stack both shields so don't turn a set into a something u perceive it to be

NativeJoe · January 2016

phillyproduct wrote: »

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

My point is that each class has quirks that look like crutches through certain goggles.

Many complain about Cloak, yet it is easily countered. Many complain about Wings, yet it is easily countered. A few complain about Breath of Life, yet it is easily countered....... see the pattern.

I have played all the classes in PVP and while Sorc is powerful in the right hands, what other class has an Armor set specifically designed to counter them?

False sorc don't have a set to counter them any and every class can shield stack harness magic with healingward stacks and I've run into plenty of magic user nb dk and temp that stack both shields so don't turn a set into a something u perceive it to be

I second this. and for the record.. with 100 bastion and 42k magic my shields are only in the 12k range. Thats one wrecking blow or two ambushes. If you CC me after wards, knock me down, or wear shield breaker im dead...or simply just keep casting wrecking blow. I could Stack harness magicka, Ward, necropotence for 53k mana, reviving barrier, and healing ward for over 50k shields in pvp...but I wouldn't kill anything. Templars on the other hand can instant cast heal themselves right through a barrage of overload, nightblades can cloak +dodge roll forever, and DK's can reflect and mitigate damage like no other. Each class has it's defenses... but Sorcs have direct counters with unresistable damage enchantments and shield breaker. And it's not like we're anywhere near unkillable even with wards at max. Good magicka nightblades and Good templars are FAR harder to kill.

Lava_Croft · January 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Nope. Healing ward is a crutch. Hardened ward on it's own is no sweat for an experienced opponent/stamina build. It might perpetuate the burst meta but then so will the use of any ward, or indeed any effective mitigation.

Healing Ward and Harness Magicka are indeed the culprits here.

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

A damage shield that can last multiple CC's is OP. For any other class, once you run out of stamina you're dead. Sorcs just sit there with that up and they just get up and re cast it. Don't have to wait for the last one to expire, no cool down. It's the most OP ability in the game imo.

It's a shame really because the rest of the class skills are balanced. Don't even know why they put a streak penalty in, who cares if they run away?

willymchilybily · January 2016

Based on what i see on the forums seems like overload is the crutch.

Lava_Croft · January 2016

All a Sorcerer needs is for Stamina regeneration to be high enough to break free before the shield(s) are broken. Easiest class building ever.

tennant94 · January 2016

It is definitely a crutch but so is cloak to nb's and breath of life to Templars. Dks however don't have one because there terrible. Bad resource management to damage output ratio and what used to be there crutch(dragon blood), is horrificly bad.

Destruent · January 2016

tennant94 wrote: »

It is definitely a crutch but so is cloak to nb's and breath of life to Templars. Dks however don't have one because there terrible. Bad resource management to damage output ratio and what used to be there crutch(dragon blood), is horrificly bad.

BoL is nothing compared to shields in general. Shields can be applied before getting damage, BoL is only useful when already damaged. See the difference?

eventide03b14a_ESO · January 2016

willymchilybily wrote: »

Based on what i see on the forums seems like overload is the crutch.

I know I"m going to regret asking this, but In what way? Also, do you guys even know what a crutch means? What alternative do magicka sorcs have available for class spells in terms of defense? We have one ability that heals us if we crit and dark exchange, which I would hardly consider a heal. We have to prevent the damage or we die. This whole thread is ludicrous.

danno8 · January 2016

Destruent wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

It is definitely a crutch but so is cloak to nb's and breath of life to Templars. Dks however don't have one because there terrible. Bad resource management to damage output ratio and what used to be there crutch(dragon blood), is horrificly bad.

BoL is nothing compared to shields in general. Shields can be applied before getting damage, BoL is only useful when already damaged. See the difference?

In PvP my regular BoL hits for 6000, and will crit for 9840. That's with around 37k magicka and 2315 spell power. If I really pushed for spell power and magicka I might be able to get that up to 7000 and 11500 crit (41k magicka and 2800 spell power).

So a crit heal would be roughly the same as a good Hardened Ward, both leaving no room for even a slightly padded health bar.

The big difference of course is that you always get the same use from a shield no matter your health, since it is just as effective at full health as it is low health, which is a big deal. You also become crit immune for that amount, which is also a pretty big deal. You also don't have to worry about getting a crit in order to get that 11k shield.

People really need to start realizing that a shield is essentially a heal, only with greater benefits.

tennant94 · January 2016

Destruent wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

It is definitely a crutch but so is cloak to nb's and breath of life to Templars. Dks however don't have one because there terrible. Bad resource management to damage output ratio and what used to be there crutch(dragon blood), is horrificly bad.

BoL is nothing compared to shields in general. Shields can be applied before getting damage, BoL is only useful when already damaged. See the difference?

Lol I wasn't comparing the two in terms of which is more effective, just stating that all classes have crutches. Hardened ward only applies to your character anyway BOL applies to everyone around you, see the difference?

Autolycus · January 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

— coming from a Sorc main

Yeah, but it's a necessity. Every class has a crutch, which sounds a lot like good balance to me.

coolermh · January 2016

phillyproduct wrote: »

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

I use sheild breaker...all gold too...2100 dmg per hit with a incrase attack speed on my bow...its funny seeing sorcs not know what to do when they take 4000 dmg per sec through their sheilds.

Lava_Croft · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

I use sheild breaker...all gold too...2100 dmg per hit with a incrase attack speed on my bow...its funny seeing sorcs not know what to do when they take 4000 dmg per sec through their sheilds.

Much the same for Shield Breaker trash once they see an enemy within a 20 meter radius. Good thing you are all so squishy and Lotus Fan don't care for your dodgerolling.

Autolycus · January 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Shield breaker on ps4 is almost non existent i never see anyone who rocks that set in PvP at all seriously no one i PvP all the time im not saying i know the sets everyone where but its extremely rare

But that's a medium armor set and what is the counter for magic users or the counter for heavy armored users

Also the Dev,s said that every cp passive should have a counter

I use sheild breaker...all gold too...2100 dmg per hit with a incrase attack speed on my bow...its funny seeing sorcs not know what to do when they take 4000 dmg per sec through their sheilds.

Much the same for Shield Breaker trash once they see an enemy within a 20 meter radius. Good thing you are all so squishy and Lotus Fan don't care for your dodgerolling.

I had to read this comment 4 times just to figure out what you were actually saying.... so I apologize if I've misunderstood.

I fail to see how this relevant to what he said? He made a comment about how effective shield breaker is..... and you called him trash?? In what world, and by what logic, is that a mature and reasonable remark to make?

I've worn those IC sets before, namely shield breaker and relentless assault. These sets are far from trash. They have a very important place in this game's pvp, and I'm very happy to see that people are actually running them. If every group had a shield breaker, it would make a lot of people's lives easier.

How squishy or tanky someone is, is a completely different topic.