Question for the top sorcerers

Roberts3393 · January 2016

Hi I have got 5 piece twice born star and 4 julianos and 3 willpower would you say that is better or the 5 julianos 3 willpower and 2 molag kena?

Flaminir · January 2016

Your first option is 12 items, so presumably dual wield? The second is 10, so presumably using a staff.

That's a little like apples to oranges... there's stuff you can do better with a dual wield setup (PvP... Overload spam etc) and some stuff that's better on a staff setup (Weaving when not using an ultimate, AoE etc).

Personally I'd say option 2 is generally more powerful for a sorc due to the massive spell power increase when overloading.

Option 1 will just be missing way too much spell power for my liking (Both the Kena 1 piece buff, the kena 2 piece buff, the 300 or so from Julianos 5 piece... that's a LOT of spell power down which 1 extra mundus buff won't be able to compensate for.

Roberts3393 · January 2016

Flaminir wrote: »

Your first option is 12 items, so presumably dual wield? The second is 10, so presumably using a staff.

That's a little like apples to oranges... there's stuff you can do better with a dual wield setup (PvP... Overload spam etc) and some stuff that's better on a staff setup (Weaving when not using an ultimate, AoE etc).

Personally I'd say option 2 is generally more powerful for a sorc due to the massive spell power increase when overloading.

Option 1 will just be missing way too much spell power for my liking (Both the Kena 1 piece buff, the kena 2 piece buff, the 300 or so from Julianos 5 piece... that's a LOT of spell power down which 1 extra mundus buff won't be able to compensate for.

Sorry missing 2 torugs pact

Roberts3393 · January 2016

Roberts3393 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Your first option is 12 items, so presumably dual wield? The second is 10, so presumably using a staff.

That's a little like apples to oranges... there's stuff you can do better with a dual wield setup (PvP... Overload spam etc) and some stuff that's better on a staff setup (Weaving when not using an ultimate, AoE etc).

Personally I'd say option 2 is generally more powerful for a sorc due to the massive spell power increase when overloading.

Option 1 will just be missing way too much spell power for my liking (Both the Kena 1 piece buff, the kena 2 piece buff, the 300 or so from Julianos 5 piece... that's a LOT of spell power down which 1 extra mundus buff won't be able to compensate for.

Sorry missing 2 torugs pact

Also that missing spell power surely the 2 mundus stones thief and shadow equal that with my 80% crit?

Derra · January 2016

I personally think kena 2p is too valuable to pass up on.

Flaminir · January 2016

Roberts3393 wrote: »

Roberts3393 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Your first option is 12 items, so presumably dual wield? The second is 10, so presumably using a staff.

That's a little like apples to oranges... there's stuff you can do better with a dual wield setup (PvP... Overload spam etc) and some stuff that's better on a staff setup (Weaving when not using an ultimate, AoE etc).

Personally I'd say option 2 is generally more powerful for a sorc due to the massive spell power increase when overloading.

Option 1 will just be missing way too much spell power for my liking (Both the Kena 1 piece buff, the kena 2 piece buff, the 300 or so from Julianos 5 piece... that's a LOT of spell power down which 1 extra mundus buff won't be able to compensate for.

Sorry missing 2 torugs pact

Also that missing spell power surely the 2 mundus stones thief and shadow equal that with my 80% crit?

80% crit?

Are you running precise weapons or something rather than Nirnhoned?

Personally in PvE I run 5 Julianos, 3 willpower, Switch between Kena & Nerien'eth depending on what I'm doing, a random inferno nirnhoned staff on main bar for weaving, and then 2x dual wield Torugs pact for the back bar.... I have Overload on this bar to take advantage of the extra spell damage.

Roberts3393 · January 2016

Flaminir wrote: »

Roberts3393 wrote: »

Roberts3393 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Your first option is 12 items, so presumably dual wield? The second is 10, so presumably using a staff.

That's a little like apples to oranges... there's stuff you can do better with a dual wield setup (PvP... Overload spam etc) and some stuff that's better on a staff setup (Weaving when not using an ultimate, AoE etc).

Personally I'd say option 2 is generally more powerful for a sorc due to the massive spell power increase when overloading.

Option 1 will just be missing way too much spell power for my liking (Both the Kena 1 piece buff, the kena 2 piece buff, the 300 or so from Julianos 5 piece... that's a LOT of spell power down which 1 extra mundus buff won't be able to compensate for.

Sorry missing 2 torugs pact

Also that missing spell power surely the 2 mundus stones thief and shadow equal that with my 80% crit?

80% crit?

Are you running precise weapons or something rather than Nirnhoned?

Personally in PvE I run 5 Julianos, 3 willpower, Switch between Kena & Nerien'eth depending on what I'm doing, a random inferno nirnhoned staff on main bar for weaving, and then 2x dual wield Torugs pact for the back bar.... I have Overload on this bar to take advantage of the extra spell damage.

Yup I've got precise on them and have you managed vet maelstrom with this build? I've done it with my NB but I can't seem get anywhere with this sorc

AverageJo3Gam3r · January 2016

In the first option, I'm not a huge fan of the 2pc or 4pc bonus for julianos. If not using it for the 5pc bonus, I wouldn't use it. Magnus would be a good replacement.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

5 Julianos, 2 Kena, 3 Willpower, 1-2 torgus pact is the current meta. All Arcane, All Divines for armor, Nirn for weapons if you can. Ideally, you have 2 torugs swords in nirn, and a maelstrom staff. Any normal v16 staff with nirn will work in the meantime. I use a torugs staff and also carry a torgus pact Hat just in case I want to drop one piece kena. Also as average joe said, 4 piece julianos stinks. If only room for 4, Magnus is best bet.

2 piece kena is made for sorcs. It is easy to proc with both a light attack weave and it procs automatically when you use overload.

Edit: For maelstrom, I run the set above and it works great. Your health will be low (16809 on front bar), but your shield and deeps will be big. I switch out my helm for boss rounds. I run 1 piece kena, 2-3 torugs for regular rounds, and 2 piece kena for boss rounds. My goal is to build ultimate during each stage and do a 100-0 overload burn on most of the bosses. A lot of people run 2 piece the whole way through, but i just prefer not to mess with trying to proc it, and it is tougher on resources. Once I get a Maelstrom staff, it will be 2 piece from here on out.

Mcwoods55 · January 2016

I was thinking about running this as my vr 16 current endgame gear

5 armor TB
stones would be the mage and apprentice

other 2 armor and 2 swords and staff would be eye of mara

jewelry willpower set

Id legendary the set and enchant with the following

armor- max magica
weapons - deal magic dmg and absorb magica
jewelry - spell dmg.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I was thinking about running this as my vr 16 current endgame gear

5 armor TB
stones would be the mage and apprentice

other 2 armor and 2 swords and staff would be eye of mara

jewelry willpower set

Id legendary the set and enchant with the following

armor- max magica
weapons - deal magic dmg and absorb magica
jewelry - spell dmg.

Not 100% sure on this, but I think the only way that Twice Born competes with Julianos for DPS is running Theif and Shadow. Mara and Magnus are essentially the same 4 piece set, so dealers choice on that one. You would have really good sustain with that build, but i dont think your spell damage (and DPS) is going to be all that high. If you dont have Kena, 4 piece magnus or eyes of mara is a logical subsitute, but once you get kena, you will want torugs swords.

Mcwoods55 · January 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I was thinking about running this as my vr 16 current endgame gear

5 armor TB
stones would be the mage and apprentice

other 2 armor and 2 swords and staff would be eye of mara

jewelry willpower set

Id legendary the set and enchant with the following

armor- max magica
weapons - deal magic dmg and absorb magica
jewelry - spell dmg.

Not 100% sure on this, but I think the only way that Twice Born competes with Julianos for DPS is running Theif and Shadow. Mara and Magnus are essentially the same 4 piece set, so dealers choice on that one. You would have really good sustain with that build, but i dont think your spell damage (and DPS) is going to be all that high. If you dont have Kena, 4 piece magnus or eyes of mara is a logical subsitute, but once you get kena, you will want torugs swords.

Thanks! Could you clear something up for me though... Why does everyone care about crits? Wouldn't they rather have steady dmg each attack?

Mcwoods55 · January 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I was thinking about running this as my vr 16 current endgame gear

5 armor TB
stones would be the mage and apprentice

other 2 armor and 2 swords and staff would be eye of mara

jewelry willpower set

Id legendary the set and enchant with the following

armor- max magica
weapons - deal magic dmg and absorb magica
jewelry - spell dmg.

Not 100% sure on this, but I think the only way that Twice Born competes with Julianos for DPS is running Theif and Shadow. Mara and Magnus are essentially the same 4 piece set, so dealers choice on that one. You would have really good sustain with that build, but i dont think your spell damage (and DPS) is going to be all that high. If you dont have Kena, 4 piece magnus or eyes of mara is a logical subsitute, but once you get kena, you will want torugs swords.

also why torugs swords? My set actually gets 129 more if set the way I had it because it gets it at 2 and 4 pieces.... Just checking. Thanks!

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I was thinking about running this as my vr 16 current endgame gear

5 armor TB
stones would be the mage and apprentice

other 2 armor and 2 swords and staff would be eye of mara

jewelry willpower set

Id legendary the set and enchant with the following

armor- max magica
weapons - deal magic dmg and absorb magica
jewelry - spell dmg.

Not 100% sure on this, but I think the only way that Twice Born competes with Julianos for DPS is running Theif and Shadow. Mara and Magnus are essentially the same 4 piece set, so dealers choice on that one. You would have really good sustain with that build, but i dont think your spell damage (and DPS) is going to be all that high. If you dont have Kena, 4 piece magnus or eyes of mara is a logical subsitute, but once you get kena, you will want torugs swords.

Thanks! Could you clear something up for me though... Why does everyone care about crits? Wouldn't they rather have steady dmg each attack?

Everything is a balance. In terms of gear, increasing Spell Damage, max magic, and crit will all increase your DPS with everything else being equal. Remember, spells scale of your spell damage AND maximum magic. For DPS, people tend to focus on Spell damage and crit for their traits because its the best way to get it. You can get magic with enchants, attributes, and in the case of a sorc, slotting innerlight and bound armor. I have 44K magic on my sorc with this setup and 65% crit.

Some of the sets are a no brainer. You are going to run Willpower on jewlery, also, this is the only place to enchant with spell damage, so its the right move. You are likely going to want a 5 piece set because the 5th bonus is generally much better. The real options are Julianos and TBS (SPC and Scathing might work as well for some builds, but thats a different topic).

After the 5 piece and the 3 pieces, you are going to have 3-4 pieces left to work with depending on whether or not you use swords or a staff. If you want to use a monster set, then you only have 1-2 left over. The only 1 piece option is a maelstrom staff. The only 2 piece option worth considering is a torgus becasue its a 2 piece spell damage bonus.

4 piece magnus or eyes gives: Magic, Magic Regen (no effect on DPS, only sustain) and spell damage.

Compare to:

2 piece Kena, 2 torugs gives: Spell damage, Spell damage, Proc'able big spell damage buff.

1 piece kena, 3 torugs gives: Spell Damage, Spell Damage, Health (no effect on DPS).

A spell damage buff will trump a magic buff in terms of DPS on normal set bonuses.

You will definitely sustain better better with Eyes or Magnus. I run 4 piece magnus on my healer. For straight DPS, the other options are better. Julianos with thief, seems to trump TBS with thief and shadow once you have a fair amount of CP.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

If you dont have Kena or Nerienth, my advice would be to choose a 5 piece (julianos or TBS, my preference is julianos), and make it your chest, legs, belt, boots and gloves. Then make your weapons torugs pact (in nirn), and also your head and shoulders in torugs. The head and shoulders wont add to DPS, but they will make you more survivable (health and spell resist). Then you can just substitute them out as you get kena pieces. Keep doing dailys and you will get shoulders. My Divines shoulders came from a silver key.

If mats/gold are no issue for you, I would make the head, shoulders, and weapons in Magnus or Eyes, but knowing that once kena drops, you will likely be replacing everything. Magnus is only better if you are have no monster sets. If you have a 1 piece kena, don't bother with magnus. Just go 2-3 torugs. 1 piece kena is great because you get the torugs bonus on both bars (and a health buff on your execute bar, which isnt the worst thing).

The most important part of the build in terms of upgrading is to get your weapons in V16, Gold, Nirnhoned. That isnt cheap, so I would hate for you to make them all twice, which is why i say just make them in torugs. Then focus on getting your big pieces in gold v16 (chest, helm, legs), then worry about small pieces. Divines is your best trait (take what you get on kena), and enchant everything with magic. You will have 16809 health on your front bar if you wear 5/1/1 and have undaunted passives. Running that low is not for everyone and takes practice, but it is best for DPS. If your health is too low, use attribute points to get it up. Its much cheaper to respec attributes than to re-enchant gear. You can also run 1 healthy piece of jewelry.

Ideally, you have undaunted maxed out for the passive, so you want a heavy chest and either a medium helm or legs (doesnt matter) and the rest light. Undaunted passives are not to be ignored. In terms of DPS, it doesnt matter which piece you make heavy or medium, but the way i described will give you the highest armor rating.

Flaminir · January 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

If you dont have Kena or Nerienth, my advice would be to choose a 5 piece (julianos or TBS, my preference is julianos), and make it your chest, legs, belt, boots and gloves. Then make your weapons torugs pact (in nirn), and also your head and shoulders in torugs. The head and shoulders wont add to DPS, but they will make you more survivable (health and spell resist). Then you can just substitute them out as you get kena pieces. Keep doing dailys and you will get shoulders. My Divines shoulders came from a silver key.

If mats/gold are no issue for you, I would make the head, shoulders, and weapons in Magnus or Eyes, but knowing that once kena drops, you will likely be replacing everything. Magnus is only better if you are have no monster sets. If you have a 1 piece kena, don't bother with magnus. Just go 2-3 torugs. 1 piece kena is great because you get the torugs bonus on both bars (and a health buff on your execute bar, which isnt the worst thing).

The most important part of the build in terms of upgrading is to get your weapons in V16, Gold, Nirnhoned. That isnt cheap, so I would hate for you to make them all twice, which is why i say just make them in torugs. Then focus on getting your big pieces in gold v16 (chest, helm, legs), then worry about small pieces. Divines is your best trait (take what you get on kena), and enchant everything with magic. You will have 16809 health on your front bar if you wear 5/1/1 and have undaunted passives. Running that low is not for everyone and takes practice, but it is best for DPS. If your health is too low, use attribute points to get it up. Its much cheaper to respec attributes than to re-enchant gear. You can also run 1 healthy piece of jewelry.

Ideally, you have undaunted maxed out for the passive, so you want a heavy chest and either a medium helm or legs (doesnt matter) and the rest light. Undaunted passives are not to be ignored. In terms of DPS, it doesnt matter which piece you make heavy or medium, but the way i described will give you the highest armor rating.

^^^ This is perfect advice. OP... this is your definitive answer!

PainfulFAFA · January 2016

I would go with the 2 kena pc simply because you can use dualwield and overload light attacks proc the kena bonus.

Steel_Brightblade · January 2016

Interesting read, any thoughts on kraganacs? Figure its slightly less damage but if things goes wrong Surely a krag sorc is best to do the rez as it means the tank can keep tanking and healing is not interrupted.

socomred · January 2016

Best pve set ATM is 5pc spell power cure(divines), 3 willpower, 2pc kena, mealstrom fire staff, dual wield torugs. It's hard to get though.

Jullianos is better then twiceborn and kena is to good not to use if u can.

aLi3nZ · January 2016

I saw someone had posted evidence that twice born star outperformed julianos with crit and spell damage mundus stones. I can't test because i can't craft that set.

Also what about using the overwhelming set?

I am currently using 3pc tourgs pact so I can get spell damage increase on both staff and duel weild bar and my duel weild bar gets an extra 1k health for the 3rd peice. I do want to try the malestrom staff but I won't bother trying vMA until patch where you can save progress and I am trying to get more cp's until they patc comes.

3pc tourgs pact 2x nirn swords, 1x sash
5x julianos
1x Molag kena only because I got helm and no shoulders
3x willpower

3100 spell damage with power surge buff on fire staff bar
3770 spell damage with duel weild bar

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Well with julianos you get crit/spell dmg (more than full divines apprentice) then choice of mundus which could be more dmg or regen or crit.