Do you think ZOS should eliminate animation cancelling?

Farorin · January 2016

No let it stay

I don't think they should, and they have already stated that they won't.

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

Why do people who vote yes even play this game? It cant be for the pvp.

Kas · January 2016

No let it stay

for now i want it to stay.

i would trade it for something else that needs practice and has even bigger impact any day (I'd still love powerful skills with cast time that can be interrupted by very quick hands and good play but gotten through by good positioning)

i want fights that are decided during the fight and not before soley through build/equip/cp/current class balance

PS: it's really funyn to see how many players think of animation cancelling as something that magically allows tons of skills during an instant and leads to one-shots on its own, completely ignoring stuff like projectile travel times, delayed damage, the difference bewteen LA/skill/bash, etc. people that don't even know how the game works, seem to be those that shout for changes the loudest

Jaronking · January 2016

No let it stay

jeevin wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Well the only way to remove it would force the devs to close the game down in my opinion they should just keep it.Keep the game going plus its not hard to learn just practice and you will get it done pack.

Why would the devs be forced to close the game? Devs generally implement changes to the game via a patch. My hopes are for a system where total damage of an attack/spell is calculated over the time of the animation. Therefore if an animation plays out in full the full damage is calculated, if the animation is cancelled half way through then half the damage is calculated and so on. You can still cancel the animation and have fluid combat but a damage penalty applies.

Edit for speeling

Well the devs mentioned if they were to removed animation canceling they would have to closed down the game and completely rework the game combat.IF they could fix it with a patch they would but I doubt they can.Its a novel idea just one Zos can't accomplish at this time.

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

Kas wrote: »

for now i want it to stay.

PS: it's really funyn to see how many players think of animation cancelling as something that magically allows tons of skills during an instant and leads to one-shots on its own, completely ignoring stuff like projectile travel times, delayed damage, the difference bewteen LA/skill/bash, etc. people that don't even know how the game works, seem to be those that shout for changes the loudest

Which are the majority of people who play this game. In the nicest way possible l2p plz.

ScooberSteve · January 2016

No let it stay

People need to stop complaining and learn to do it. Yes it does take skill. Pvp is not for everyone if you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

People need to stop assuming only those that cant do it want it removed

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

Rune_Relic wrote: »

People need to stop assuming only those that cant do it want it removed

Think of it as something thats part of the game because it is. Even if its breaking your immersion. Is that why you want it removed?

FlicksZ · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Get rid of it or incorporate it into future balancing. It bypasses a lot.

When I look at pvp in its current state, I want nothing to do with it. Obviously this is not solely due to AC but it undeniably contributes to what we have atm.

Make pvp inclusive not exclusive. Make it thrive. You think Arenas/bgs will thrive like this? It will but not in a positive way.

CP5 · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

krim wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

People need to stop assuming only those that cant do it want it removed

Think of it as something thats part of the game because it is. Even if its breaking your immersion. Is that why you want it removed?

If ZOS doesn't either remove it or fully accept it then it's garbage. You cannot balance a game when some skills are so effective in AC and others aren't without reworking each skill based off of its usefulness. ZOS clearly doesn't want people to be instantly killed off (hence the battle spirit resist buff) but AC allows people to work past that and that's either intended or not and by doing nothing ZOS has just let the game go to where it is now.

Few skills that are easily applied to the current meta (a meta including AC but not balanced with it in mind) and the rest kind of just, you know, never used. And the longer this indecisiveness last more and more content will be balanced either around AC (and if you don't do it you will have a bad time) or without (and anyone that AC's will have an easy time). They need to pick one way or another, not just wait until *soon finally arrives.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

I'm just going to repost how I feel about it...

AC though in pvp totally screws up the TTK.. its makes everything about burst.... in the end AC lowers the skill's needed to win as instead of using skills tactfully to counter and attack its forces players to false flag there attacks to burst people down so they cant responded....

I personally thought that the animation for attacks and skills should have to play through and the damage is based on the end of the animation so if you try to evade roll or block it breaks the animation you were doing but also stops the damage it would of applied.... to me this seems a more realistic view of how combat animation should be done.

Slows the TTK and do that maybe bring some of these burst spamming AC damage builds under control. It also may help diversify builds.

Alucardo · January 2016

No let it stay

old_mufasa wrote: »

I'm just going to repost how I feel about it...

AC though in pvp totally screws up the TTK.. its makes everything about burst.... in the end AC lowers the skill's needed to win as instead of using skills tactfully to counter and attack its forces players to false flag there attacks to burst people down so they cant responded....

I personally thought that the animation for attacks and skills should have to play through and the damage is based on the end of the animation so if you try to evade roll or block it breaks the animation you were doing but also stops the damage it would of applied.... to me this seems a more realistic view of how combat animation should be done.

Slows the TTK and do that maybe bring some of these burst spamming AC damage builds under control. It also may help diversify builds.

It's not just about TTK and DPS with animation cancelling, though. You're getting chased by a zerg and need to cast Rally - son, I ain't got time to put my arms up in the air, so you start rally and immediately block.
Now you got time to do other things. Once again, you're getting chased by a zerg. Sure, I can use Vigor, but they just gonna DPS me down, so I pop vigor and roll dodge immediately, giving me a little immunity. This is a defence form of animation cancelling.
AC is not only a tool for DPS, but for escaping trouble.

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

CP5 wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

People need to stop assuming only those that cant do it want it removed

Think of it as something thats part of the game because it is. Even if its breaking your immersion. Is that why you want it removed?

If ZOS doesn't either remove it or fully accept it then it's garbage. You cannot balance a game when some skills are so effective in AC and others aren't without reworking each skill based off of its usefulness. ZOS clearly doesn't want people to be instantly killed off (hence the battle spirit resist buff) but AC allows people to work past that and that's either intended or not and by doing nothing ZOS has just let the game go to where it is now.

Few skills that are easily applied to the current meta (a meta including AC but not balanced with it in mind) and the rest kind of just, you know, never used. And the longer this indecisiveness last more and more content will be balanced either around AC (and if you don't do it you will have a bad time) or without (and anyone that AC's will have an easy time). They need to pick one way or another, not just wait until *soon finally arrives.

Zos doesnt know what they are doing first off. Animation canceling has been around since forever and still in the game after 1.5. Bads will always be killed instantly so where does it end.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Alucardo wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I'm just going to repost how I feel about it...

AC though in pvp totally screws up the TTK.. its makes everything about burst.... in the end AC lowers the skill's needed to win as instead of using skills tactfully to counter and attack its forces players to false flag there attacks to burst people down so they cant responded....

I personally thought that the animation for attacks and skills should have to play through and the damage is based on the end of the animation so if you try to evade roll or block it breaks the animation you were doing but also stops the damage it would of applied.... to me this seems a more realistic view of how combat animation should be done.

Slows the TTK and do that maybe bring some of these burst spamming AC damage builds under control. It also may help diversify builds.

It's not just about TTK and DPS with animation cancelling, though. You're getting chased by a zerg and need to cast Rally - son, I ain't got time to put my arms up in the air, so you start rally and immediately block.
Now you got time to do other things. Once again, you're getting chased by a zerg. Sure, I can use Vigor, but they just gonna DPS me down, so I pop vigor and roll dodge immediately, giving me a little immunity. This is a defence form of animation cancelling.
AC is not only a tool for DPS, but for escaping trouble.

what? it wont change anything.. as the if you have to finish the cast to heal to get the heal, just as you have to finish the cast to do damage.. and you break and roll it would stop the heal.. no different then for damage..there for no AC would make it balanced and don't give me this its not for DPS bs as you are running away from a zerg then you are out numbered heavly and shouldn't just be able to run off do to AC.. that's just stupid...

The issue with AC is 100% related to burst dps to kill you before you can react and heal or defend... ironicly it would be able to heal and fight if you didn't have to worry about AC of the other player.. ALL ac does is takes any tactics out of the game for twitch game play... there should be checks and balances and AC removes that by cloaking the true extent of an attack from another player.. its bad mechanic.

Knootewoot · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

I understand people wanting to keep AC, because they already use it and want as much DPS as possible. Some of them cry about the 1-2 shot kills in Cyrodill, which is mostly because of AC, but want to keep it.

But i think AC is a stupid, and unintended, mechanism that ruins combat. A heavy attack cancelled should not do the damage.. you did cancel the attack and the sword did not land in someones face. Why should he receive damage?

But alas, this problem exist with combat mechanisms this game has. Even a newer mmo, BDO has it. And if Zos has to fix it, they have to rewrite all the code from scratch and they cannot do that.

The original coders are long gone and the current team has no clue what the code does and how to fix things (just look at the lag man). All they can do is rely on the existing code and use the world editor to create new zones using this old code.

AC is here to stay. I may not like it but i have to deal with it. When i was Stamblade i also used it (not from cloak but from stealth for thise who will start whining about cloak) because it was eat or get eaten. But AC tires me out and i don't want to work for the game but have fun. With my current setup i don't animation cancel intentionally. It still happens when i cast a healing ward and switch to my DPS bar so the animation is cancelled. You cannot do anything about that.

For what zos announced about the prioritizing, we can only guess what that means. We will see this soon on PTS and i will ready my tongue for those who cry so i can taste their sweet QQ tears because, once again, combat will be changed.

And if someone calls it again a NGE.. i witnessed the NGE (and CU) and there has been nothing in this game that even came close to the NGE.

Malmai · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NO. This has been discussed to death OVER AND OVER since launch.... when are you guys going to get the message?

Animation canceling is a necessary evil in a game where animation eye candy has to coexist with abilities, attacks and other actions that have either no cooldown or a very short cooldown.

GET OVER IT and stop trying to add more cooldowns to this game!

This is sucha trded post and i have to say a game flaw that you guys adopted because it makes you exploit like a boss.

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

Malmai wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

NO. This has been discussed to death OVER AND OVER since launch.... when are you guys going to get the message?

Animation canceling is a necessary evil in a game where animation eye candy has to coexist with abilities, attacks and other actions that have either no cooldown or a very short cooldown.

GET OVER IT and stop trying to add more cooldowns to this game!

This is sucha trded post and i have to say a game flaw that you guys adopted because it makes you exploit like a boss.

Just like the 1.6 patch that changed everything. You will still get owned some how some way by people who know how. Animation Canceling is not going to save any of you from anything. The majority of ESO players will be back trying to get something else changed because they simply dont like it.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

krim wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

People need to stop assuming only those that cant do it want it removed

Think of it as something thats part of the game because it is. Even if its breaking your immersion. Is that why you want it removed?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2621484/#Comment_2621484

IcyDeadPeople · January 2016

No let it stay

It's been part of this game engine since at least around 6 months before launch. We reported it on the PTS and most players seemed to use it even way back then.

I'm no programmer, but I imagine removing this would require a hell of a lot of work, and it might make combat a lot less fun as a result.
.

Rune_Relic · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Alucardo wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I'm just going to repost how I feel about it...

AC though in pvp totally screws up the TTK.. its makes everything about burst.... in the end AC lowers the skill's needed to win as instead of using skills tactfully to counter and attack its forces players to false flag there attacks to burst people down so they cant responded....

I personally thought that the animation for attacks and skills should have to play through and the damage is based on the end of the animation so if you try to evade roll or block it breaks the animation you were doing but also stops the damage it would of applied.... to me this seems a more realistic view of how combat animation should be done.

Slows the TTK and do that maybe bring some of these burst spamming AC damage builds under control. It also may help diversify builds.

It's not just about TTK and DPS with animation cancelling, though. You're getting chased by a zerg and need to cast Rally - son, I ain't got time to put my arms up in the air, so you start rally and immediately block.
Now you got time to do other things. Once again, you're getting chased by a zerg. Sure, I can use Vigor, but they just gonna DPS me down, so I pop vigor and roll dodge immediately, giving me a little immunity. This is a defence form of animation cancelling.
AC is not only a tool for DPS, but for escaping trouble.

So what is it you are trying to do ... DPS ? block ? Heal ? or all at the same time.
This is the whole point about making choices for better or worse.
Make the wrong choice you die. Make the right choice you live.
Isnt that what seperates the experienced and skilled players from the lesser skilled ?
Does this negative you disagree with really only apply to you and not everyone else ?
Do you think that they themselves don't have to consider the implications ?

Nay, the only need for animation cancelling is increasing dps hps or mitigation.
Slow/Long term skills should have greater benefit but more risk.
Fast/Short term skills should have less benefit and less risk.
AC completely turns that on its head.

JackDaniell · January 2016

No let it stay

Animations are the physical representation of the input you provide to your toon. Animation canceling is simply casting your skills in the right order so they hit your target as quickly as possible per skill cool down tick.

Light/heavy > skill of choice > block/bash

Roll and weapon swap can be added anywhere to a cancel. You cannot do a cancel in the wrong order, but you can skip steps.

Animation canceling is easy to learn, but can be hard to master at high levels of play. (Especially PvP)

ZOS is making many animation changes with the upcoming TG patch, my hunch is that they will actually be tightening up the animations around this input control system so that when you make a proper animation cancel, EACH animation plays out very quickly. This would look like a very controlled and organic combo as opposed to a predetermined animation from clicking one skill.

If only if only..
Hope this helps clear up some misconceptions people have on this thread about how canceling works.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

JackDaniell wrote: »

Animations are the physical representation of the input you provide to your toon. Animation canceling is simply casting your skills in the right order so they hit your target as quickly as possible per skill cool down tick.

Light/heavy > skill of choice > block/bash

Roll and weapon swap can be added anywhere to a cancel. You cannot do a cancel in the wrong order, but you can skip steps.

Animation canceling is easy to learn, but can be hard to master at high levels of play. (Especially PvP)

ZOS is making many animation changes with the upcoming TG patch, my hunch is that they will actually be tightening up the animations around this input control system so that when you make a proper animation cancel, EACH animation plays out very quickly. This would look like a very controlled and organic combo as opposed to a predetermined animation from clicking one skill.

If only if only..
Hope this helps clear up some misconceptions people have on this thread about how canceling works.

Its not about if its hard to do its about being a bad mechanic.... its like this..

On live a player ques heavy attack, wreaking blow, they both hit at the same time but you get no warning of the wreaking blow as all that the player sees is the heavy attack... now the person of the reseaving end now has to block or roll out of way everytime they see a heavy attack animation because they have no idea if wreaking blow is following through... this is a bad game design.

How it should be is the player attacking use's the heavy attack, then wreaking blow.. do to being able to see each and every attack animation the player being attacked now has the option to take the heavy attack hit and save there stamina to block the wreaking blow so they can counter attack.... this to me is how it should be playing.

As far as animation changing.. if the person can still have the heavy attack and wreaking blow land at the same time.. the animation wont matter.. as its still landing at the same time... so with out them cutting AC out of combat mechanic your still going to run into the first scenario

LoreRiley · January 2016

Yes get rid of it

Those who vote "No" are obvious animation cancel players

LBxFinalDeath · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

Only animation cancel thats game breaking is the bows animation cancels.

Game struggle to catch up from how fast you died to getting hit by 5 10K focused aims in one hit.

You run around all of a sudden with no resources except health....then you just drop a second or two later.

Keep the rest get rid of the game breaking one.

Solariken · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

lordrichter wrote: »

They should replace animation canceling with action canceling. You decide to do something else, whatever you are doing at the time does not happen. Starting to do something and then immediately canceling it should not result in the action continuing to do damage.

Kova · January 2016

No let it stay

I only voted no because I know the only cure to it is to instigate more cooldowns.

If this game becomes a cooldown combat mmo, I will quit. There is no hard feelings, no hate, just an integral part of the game that has been removed and no longer interests me. The environments, quests, and rewards are not enough to make terrible combat ok.

Destruent · January 2016

No let it stay

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

Only animation cancel thats game breaking is the bows animation cancels.

Game struggle to catch up from how fast you died to getting hit by 5 10K focused aims in one hit.

You run around all of a sudden with no resources except health....then you just drop a second or two later.

Keep the rest get rid of the game breaking one.

This has nothing to do with animation cancelling. It's just the traveling time of the arrow which makes this possible...

Violynne · January 2016

Other (Please explain)

I voted other and the poll asked me to explain, so I will.

First, I don't even know what the hell animation canceling is. Perhaps I'm doing it and don't realize it, but regardless, whatever it is, it's not affecting how I play my game.

Second, this crap seems more inherent in PvP play than PvE, so I couldn't care less if ZoS leaves it or removes it because I don't play PvP (because it's rarely the game's fault PvP sucks).

krim · January 2016

No let it stay

Violynne wrote: »

I voted other and the poll asked me to explain, so I will.

First, I don't even know what the hell animation canceling is. Perhaps I'm doing it and don't realize it, but regardless, whatever it is, it's not affecting how I play my game.

Second, this crap seems more inherent in PvP play than PvE, so I couldn't care less if ZoS leaves it or removes it because I don't play PvP (because it's rarely the game's fault PvP sucks).

Awesome!

FriedEggSandwich · January 2016

No let it stay

I have to agree with the people who say it isn't as big an issue as some like to make out. It's not hard to learn, the advantages are small and it doesn't break any mechanics of the game. All players are able to do it, and probably do it to some extent without realising. To fix it all animations would have to be the same length as the listed cast time. Instant cast abilities don't have instant animations. Even skills with cast times, such as a hard-cast crystal frags, have a longer animation than the listed cast time. There is no legit way to override the gcd or listed cast time of a skill. I see AC as emergent gameplay, like bunnyhopping in counterstrike, which was originally possible due to a querk in the game engine, was 'fixed' in source, but has now been embraced by the devs and community as an "advanced movement technique". Just develop some muscle memory.