Wrecking Blow?!?

ShadowDisciple · January 2016

so i tried to figure why ppl say its broken and op..

and only thing that pops to mind is bassically the CC aspect of it is too strong..

i mean dmg + self-empower is ok i guess..but maybe that CC is a bit overkill?

Preyfar · January 2016

It's definitely part of the problem. It's spammable, gets a burst, has a hardcore knock down which can ravage Magicka users and other weapon-based skills lack the same level of CC or knock down to compete, hence why Wrecking Blow is so good. That said, Wrecking Blow is somewhat avoidable and you can get around it somewhat if you know what to do. But there's a reason most people run around with 2H.

Some Magicka users I know go 2H just for the knockdown.

sirrmattus · January 2016

SO MANY DISCUSSIONS ON THIS...

i think most people are mad about the broken cc and the 100yard distance it can hit you at

Shelgon · January 2016

Besides the CC screwing up, I legitimately think the skills base power is too high. My tooltip says 17k, that's more than some DK's leaps.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

It's definitely part of the problem. It's spammable, gets a burst, has a hardcore knock down which can ravage Magicka users and other weapon-based skills lack the same level of CC or knock down to compete, hence why Wrecking Blow is so good. That said, Wrecking Blow is somewhat avoidable and you can get around it somewhat if you know what to do. But there's a reason most people run around with 2H.

Some Magicka users I know go 2H just for the knockdown.

Plus the cc is buggy as well as the range, for a melee skill the buggy 15m range shouldn't be a thing.

So very high dmg
+ empower
+ good cc
+ good range
+ buggy cc
+ buggy range

Not sure why a skill has high dmg, empower and cc.

Most other skills usually have 1.

ShadowDisciple · January 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

It's definitely part of the problem. It's spammable, gets a burst, has a hardcore knock down which can ravage Magicka users and other weapon-based skills lack the same level of CC or knock down to compete, hence why Wrecking Blow is so good. That said, Wrecking Blow is somewhat avoidable and you can get around it somewhat if you know what to do. But there's a reason most people run around with 2H.

Some Magicka users I know go 2H just for the knockdown.

i didnt have much problem with it....but i have been using it for the last 3-4 days to see what its all about and it really is EASY mode..

i mean if i open from stealth its gg...the thing i see around forums is "l2p and aoid it"...and thats what ive been doing and its fine... but when a player is good and is using it its harder...ive been wrecking ppl 1v3-4 with it past few days with no problem

sirrmattus · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

It's definitely part of the problem. It's spammable, gets a burst, has a hardcore knock down which can ravage Magicka users and other weapon-based skills lack the same level of CC or knock down to compete, hence why Wrecking Blow is so good. That said, Wrecking Blow is somewhat avoidable and you can get around it somewhat if you know what to do. But there's a reason most people run around with 2H.

Some Magicka users I know go 2H just for the knockdown.

i didnt have much problem with it....but i have been using it for the last 3-4 days to see what its all about and it really is EASY mode..

i mean if i open from stealth its gg...the thing i see around forums is "l2p and aoid it"...and thats what ive been doing and its fine... but when a player is good and is using it its harder...ive been wrecking ppl 1v3-4 with it past few days with no problem

ive not been beat by many wb spammers, but there are some really good players who use the skill effectively @FENGRUSH
he streams too if you want to watch

i hate when someone hits you through a wall or around the corner of a wall. or behind them. or 20 yards away.

Preyfar · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

i didnt have much problem with it....but i have been using it for the last 3-4 days to see what its all about and it really is EASY mode..

i mean if i open from stealth its gg...the thing i see around forums is "l2p and aoid it"...and thats what ive been doing and its fine... but when a player is good and is using it its harder...ive been wrecking ppl 1v3-4 with it past few days with no problem

For PVP, there's little reason to go DW unless you want to spam Steel Tornado. By comparison, 2H PVP damage is superior to DW in almost every possible way. 2H's WB gets paired with Rally, and Rally is really what makes WB what it is. A 20% Weapon Damage buff + a 20% damage buff plus a ridiculously good heal.

DW can't compare to that, and S&B can't quite compare to that combo.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

sirrmattus wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

It's definitely part of the problem. It's spammable, gets a burst, has a hardcore knock down which can ravage Magicka users and other weapon-based skills lack the same level of CC or knock down to compete, hence why Wrecking Blow is so good. That said, Wrecking Blow is somewhat avoidable and you can get around it somewhat if you know what to do. But there's a reason most people run around with 2H.

Some Magicka users I know go 2H just for the knockdown.

i didnt have much problem with it....but i have been using it for the last 3-4 days to see what its all about and it really is EASY mode..

i mean if i open from stealth its gg...the thing i see around forums is "l2p and aoid it"...and thats what ive been doing and its fine... but when a player is good and is using it its harder...ive been wrecking ppl 1v3-4 with it past few days with no problem

ive not been beat by many wb spammers, but there are some really good ones @FENGRUSH
he streams too if you want to watch

i hate when someone hits you through a wall or around the corner of a wall. or behind them. or 20 yards away.

It's ok I've been hit through a rock before.

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2016

CC and immunity is broken and the skill itself needs a actual cast time and not this "1 second" cast time it says it has.

Ghost-Shot · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

so i tried to figure why ppl say its broken and op..

and only thing that pops to mind is bassically the CC aspect of it is too strong..

i mean dmg + self-empower is ok i guess..but maybe that CC is a bit overkill?

Block it and you don't get cc'd.

Didgerion · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

so i tried to figure why ppl say its broken and op..

and only thing that pops to mind is bassically the CC aspect of it is too strong..

i mean dmg + self-empower is ok i guess..but maybe that CC is a bit overkill?

Nah, it is just because the soft caps removal makes it hit too strong. And there is this combo 1-2 combo witch can insta-kill you
1.WB from stealth - if it crits + with stealph bonus + with camo hunter proc + CC ......ooooouch
2.WB empowered from the first one + low health bonus executioner passive - and you are dead...or if not yet
3.Executioner

If you remove CC part then the cast time should be removed as well....and the damage lowered a bit.....already looks like a bad copy of surprise attack.

The only way to balance it is to greatly buff the health pool ...but then there are so many other abilities that has to be adjusted.
Too much work - No ETA on that

ShadowDisciple · January 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

i didnt have much problem with it....but i have been using it for the last 3-4 days to see what its all about and it really is EASY mode..

i mean if i open from stealth its gg...the thing i see around forums is "l2p and aoid it"...and thats what ive been doing and its fine... but when a player is good and is using it its harder...ive been wrecking ppl 1v3-4 with it past few days with no problem

For PVP, there's little reason to go DW unless you want to spam Steel Tornado. By comparison, DW PVP damage is superior to DW in almost every possible way, but 2H's WB gets paired with Rally, and Rally is really what makes WB what it is. A 20% Weapon Damage buff + a 20% damage buff plus a ridiculously good heal.

DW can't compare to that, and S&B can't quite compare to that combo.

yea i use DW + 2H on back bar for buffs...ive been using that since 1.2 bassically cuz NB's back then did not have any good Stamina morphs so i used weapon skills...like blood craze and spam flurry xD alog with some NB skills.

but yea i can see how WB can be broken in the hands of someone who is not a bad player

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Didgerion wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

so i tried to figure why ppl say its broken and op..

and only thing that pops to mind is bassically the CC aspect of it is too strong..

i mean dmg + self-empower is ok i guess..but maybe that CC is a bit overkill?

Nah, it is just because the soft caps removal makes it to hit too strong. And there is this combo 1-2 combo witch can insta-kill you
1.WB from stealth - if it crits + with stealph bonus + with camo hunter proc + CC
ooooouch
2.WB empowered from the first one + low health bonus executioner passive
and you are dead...or if not yet...
3.Executioner

If you remove CC part then the cast time should be removed as well....and the damage lowered a bit.....already looks like a bad copy of surprise attack.

The only way to balance it is to greatly buff the health pool ...but then there are so many other abilities that has to be adjusted.
Too much work - No ETA on that

Remove the cc, if people want to use ti for dmg then fine, remove the empower, such a high hitting skill shouldn't be empowering itself.

Stop it being cancelled, i can't animation cancel my jabs. I can't just stop the animation then hit them with a heavy attack at the same time.

CyrusArya · January 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

Besides the CC screwing up, I legitimately think the skills base power is too high. My tooltip says 17k, that's more than some DK's leaps.

Easy for a stamina templar to say. Fact of the matter is, wrecking blows tooltip is completely justified given how hard it is to land against competent players. The only concern with the skill's damage is that it's arguably too strong against certain magicka builds, even though good magicka builds in any class can still dance circles around WB. With the introduction of a physical damage reduction cp that problem should be addressed.

Fix the buggy CC and add a range check. Possibly tweak the empower/CC. That's all that needs to be done. And until stamina DK and sorc have another option to reliably burst people down, it's completely irrelevant what a stamina templar or NB has to say on the matter.

Molag_Crow · January 2016

Yet I wonder if ZOS even know about this or care

Spacemonkey · January 2016

My only issue with WB is the range. Without the insane range it would be rather easy to dodge / avoid - you see someone 2H, you stay out of WB range from them.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

Besides the CC screwing up, I legitimately think the skills base power is too high. My tooltip says 17k, that's more than some DK's leaps.

Easy for a stamina templar to say. Fact of the matter is, wrecking blows tooltip is completely justified given how hard it is to land against competent players. The only concern with the skill's damage is that it's arguably too strong against certain magicka builds, even though good magicka builds in any class can still dance circles around WB. With the introduction of a physical damage reduction cp that problem should be addressed.

Fix the buggy CC and add a range check. Possibly tweak the empower/CC. That's all that needs to be done. And until stamina DK and sorc have another option to reliably burst people down, it's completely irrelevant what a stamina templar or NB has to say on the matter.

You can't go anywhere when a competent wb user finds you, using some basic snare and people are easy kills.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

CF does almost the same and has a 30 or 35% chance of being istant after casting a spell. only thing it doesn't have is empower..... and not to forget it's ranged

Preyfar · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can't go anywhere when a competent wb user finds you, using some basic snare and people are easy kills.

Yep, and in PVP, that basic snare is usually caltrops.

WB doesn't really bother me, but I think, at most, Empower should be changed (perhaps changing it with something like Minor Force which increases crit damage by 15% rather than a flat out 20% damage bonus).

Anhedonie · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

so i tried to figure why ppl say its broken and op..

and only thing that pops to mind is bassically the CC aspect of it is too strong..

i mean dmg + self-empower is ok i guess..but maybe that CC is a bit overkill?

The problem is broken CC. There is a bug that allows you to ignore CC immunity and just stunlock people untill they die.

Most of ZO$ abilities are considered OP because they are broken, not because they are unbalanced.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You can't go anywhere when a competent wb user finds you, using some basic snare and people are easy kills.

Yep, and in PVP, that basic snare is usually caltrops.

WB doesn't really bother me, but I think, at most, Empower should be changed (perhaps changing it with something like Minor Force which increases crit damage by 15% rather than a flat out 20% damage bonus).

They don't even need caltraps, just a simple stampede, just as effective and doesn't require assault 6 or a lot of stamina.

Gilvoth · January 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

Besides the CC screwing up, I legitimately think the skills base power is too high. My tooltip says 17k, that's more than some DK's leaps.

thats correct, the damage is too high and the crowd controll throwing people and people unable to break out of it is the whole problem.
just make it cost 18000 stamina per hit and the whole problem is solved. they wont be able to spam hit people after that.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

How are people animation canceling it is my only question.

sirrmattus · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

Besides the CC screwing up, I legitimately think the skills base power is too high. My tooltip says 17k, that's more than some DK's leaps.

thats correct, the damage is too high and the crowd controll throwing people and people unable to break out of it is the whole problem.
just make it cost 18000 stamina per hit and the whole problem is solved. they wont be able to spam hit people after that.

quit trolling.. 18k per hit? cmon dude

Gilvoth · January 2016

that wasnt a troll, i am being serious, make it cost 18000 stamina per hit will solve the problem. it will make people stop spaming it and abusing it.

sirrmattus · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

that wasnt a troll, i am being serious, make it cost 18000 stamina per hit will solve the problem. it will make people stop spaming it and abusing it.

if thats the case make amnbush 50k per use..

Nifty2g · January 2016

an ability shouldn't empower itself and stun

Gilvoth · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

an ability shouldn't empower itself and stun

thats exactly why i hate the sorcerer skill called bolt escape.
it doesnt belong in eso pvp.
it doesnt have the empower but that stunn i hate

Didgerion · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

that wasnt a troll, i am being serious, make it cost 18000 stamina per hit will solve the problem. it will make people stop spaming it and abusing it.

You don't need to spam it...you just need to cast it twice.
So your solution solves nothing.

Gilvoth · January 2016

Didgerion wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

that wasnt a troll, i am being serious, make it cost 18000 stamina per hit will solve the problem. it will make people stop spaming it and abusing it.

You don't need to spam it...you just need to cast it twice.

exactly, as long as its not being spammed is my point.