Is 51 cp really an appropriate raise for 3 months...

coolermh · January 2016

I mean if you just use your enlightenment you get over 90

Wollust · January 2016

No it isn't. It's an incredibly casual number they are picking there, not at all regarding any player who plays more than an hour a day.

Sausage · January 2016

Maybe it was typo it should be 501 instead of 51? Or then just most people havent even reached 501 yet, if thats the case, I told them before that they should start selling 400-800% boosters via shop, only purchasable if you're below 501.

Sypher · January 2016

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

James-Wayne · January 2016

If they are raising the cap every 3 months with new content then sounds fine to me, being more of a casual player now days with work commitments grinding CP isn't my idea of fun but if that CP raise is achievable by completing the new content I'd be happy.

Remember nothing is confirmed as of yet, Rich only mentioned that's what they are looking at doing.

Fat_Cat45 · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

I agree with this.

There needs to be an overlying cap of CP at no greater than 1,800 or else everyone is comparably the exact same when observed from different points. If everyone has 0 CP then the player strength relative to one another is exactly the same if everyone had 3,600 CP.

If players are allowed to get every single CP then it takes away meaningful choices in the system. The values in CP stars need to be reduced and have a cap a little over 1,000.

olsborg · January 2016

Im basicly just above the cap, I dont mind if they increase it by 99, that means each color goes from 167 spent cp to 200, wich is a reasonable number if you ask me. Gives me a goal

Sausage · January 2016

We need Gear Armory, so loyal/vet players can grind multiple gear/sets while casuals still grind CPs, after you reach max CP, you can start working on your other gear/build slots, or then if Achievements gave better reward do those. Raise of 51 CPs can only mean average player isnt even near CP 501.

azoriangaming · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

do you think 15 years to reach the cap is reasonable though? I understand where you're coming from with the difference of low cp and high cp and I agree the cp system needs reworking but 15 years to reach cap is too much.

coolermh · January 2016

I mean if everyone can get the cap so easily what is the point in having any progression at all. Why not just give everyone max cp? 51 points an expansion is basically that

Kammakazi · January 2016

Sypher confirmed.

51 is BEST.

hydrocynus · January 2016

At 450,000 xp per Cp (i know it will be more but trying to simplify the maths so haven't got into figuring out the average), 51 CP is 13.5 times more xp than grinding 2 VR levels like was needed after Imperial city DLC. If you were already VR14 then after 1xp you became V15 and only had to level 1 VR level and in that case the 51 CP is 27 times more xp required. If you consider they didn't level it again for 2 DLCs it is 54 times more grind to get to level cap now in the same time !!!!

There was mass hysteria then about the huge grind that people had to do on all their characters. Now unless you have 54 or more characters this will actually be longer to get to level cap than it did to get from V14 to V16. Let's not even get into what it will take to upgrade your gear (cos I guess we don't know yet).

In essence what I am saying is that ZOS can't win. You lot will whine about it being too much and then when they make it much more, you lot will whine about it being too little. The poor dudes must be banging their keyboards on their heads in frustration.

Sypher · January 2016

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

do you think 15 years to reach the cap is reasonable though? I understand where you're coming from with the difference of low cp and high cp and I agree the cp system needs reworking but 15 years to reach cap is too much.

You're going about it the wrong way. The cap doesn't need to be reached, you can have all your passives at 1080 CP. So everything after that is just more power. At 1080 CP though players will have the option to unlock all the passives if they want to. Decisions become minimal and everyone will have very similar layouts depending on build.

Sypher · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if everyone can get the cap so easily what is the point in having any progression at all. Why not just give everyone max cp? 51 points an expansion is basically that

So what did we have before the CP system? No progression at max vr rank?

The CP system is just one form of progression, it is not the only form.

azoriangaming · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

do you think 15 years to reach the cap is reasonable though? I understand where you're coming from with the difference of low cp and high cp and I agree the cp system needs reworking but 15 years to reach cap is too much.

You're going about it the wrong way. The cap doesn't need to be reached, you can have all your passives at 1080 CP. So everything after that is just more power. At 1080 CP though players will have the option to unlock all the passives if they want to. Decisions become minimal and everyone will have very similar layouts depending on build.

Though I agree with you the cap doesn't need to be reached but it gives players something to do within a game that has minimal content and replayability, it just concerns me that it may damage the community with only allowing 51 cp per dlc from q2.

I'll give you an example, I'm above the cp cap at the moment I log into pvp I realise that it's to laggy to do anything and log off the game as I've done all I need to do in pve and I don't need to increase my cp for the next 3 dlcs and I'm a pvp player so at least the next 2 dlc as we know have nothing for pvp players to do, they've also cancelled part 2 of the justice system and Arenas/Duelling systems have no ETA and no sign of the lag issue being sorted anytime soon.

A higher cp increase would give players like myself something to actually do, I just feel 102-204 cp would've been a better number.

Hexys · January 2016

Remove the 3600 cap, make it 1200 and raise it by 51 every DLC.

Leandor · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

Then the effect of each CP needs to be adjusted instead of limiting severely the ability to progress.

coolermh · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if everyone can get the cap so easily what is the point in having any progression at all. Why not just give everyone max cp? 51 points an expansion is basically that

So what did we have before the CP system? No progression at max vr rank?

The CP system is just one form of progression, it is not the only form.

What is the other form of progression now that I have maxed gear/cp/skill lines etc... on nearly 2 chars... I guess I could reroll another char and do all the same stuff over for a third time.

xellink · January 2016

Its better than inflation rate.

Stonesthrow · January 2016

Was thinking 75 (25x3) would be better, cleaner sounding, more, more… well it would still take 10 years to max out.

But 51 is fine as long as the content keeps coming quarterly.

It's just that 51(17x3) really seems like a weird number to me.

BippNasty · January 2016

I think a lot of you guys need to realize they don't optimize this game based on the hardcore players. They optimized it for everyone and the fact is that the majority of people in game aren't hardcore players. They play maybe an hour a day maybe 3 to 5 days a week. So 50 cp is a great number for the majority of players. Enough to be reachable for casuals but still give hardcore players something to do. Everyone on these forums are going to think it's too low because most of your are probably the more consistent players in game. Casual players don't spend time in game forums.

Autolycus · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if you just use your enlightenment you get over 90

But that's on the low end. If you are at 501 already, it takes something like 900k to get another CP (which I might add is almost like leveling an entire vet rank, back when it took 1MM to rank up). I ran some numbers, granted they are just rough estimates and are biased towards my own play time, which is significantly more than most of the community, but less than the real hardcore elitists. What I determined is that I will earn less than 30 points in a single month at the post-cap rate. Which means that any points I don't earn prior to the cap being raised will be earned at the normal rate, and would be achieved in roughly a month's time anyway, putting me back at the cap.

Is it enough? It's fine for me, I truthfully don't care if it's 51 points or 101 points, because either way I'll end up hitting the cap again before it's raised. I'm going to be at or near the CP cap for the foreseeable future. That doesn't bother me either, because at this point I'm just getting .01% increases to my stats per point anyway. More CP for me = build diversity, off-specs and hybrid builds, not perfecting my main specs.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if everyone can get the cap so easily what is the point in having any progression at all. Why not just give everyone max cp? 51 points an expansion is basically that

So what did we have before the CP system? No progression at max vr rank?

The CP system is just one form of progression, it is not the only form.

What is the other form of progression now that I have maxed gear/cp/skill lines etc... on nearly 2 chars... I guess I could reroll another char and do all the same stuff over for a third time.

you did play at max level before CP was intoduced right? what level progression did you have then. none. sheezs stop the obsesion with level progression there is nothing wrong with being max level for a while and enjoy the content. it's not like they won't bring new content every 4 months (if ZoS can keep it up).
maybe start to rethink why you play a game, to gain progress or to sit back and enjoy yourself

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Sypher wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

do you think 15 years to reach the cap is reasonable though? I understand where you're coming from with the difference of low cp and high cp and I agree the cp system needs reworking but 15 years to reach cap is too much.

You're going about it the wrong way. The cap doesn't need to be reached, you can have all your passives at 1080 CP. So everything after that is just more power. At 1080 CP though players will have the option to unlock all the passives if they want to. Decisions become minimal and everyone will have very similar layouts depending on build.

@Sypher with all due respect, that is a very narrow view. ZOS can make CP investment meaningful even at 1080 CP or 3600 CP, its just that the current content does not require anywhere near that level of CP investment making it moot or as you put it just "for more power".

Your not wrong with your assumption of what will happen if everyone can unlock the passives in all champion trees, but limiting progression is not a valid method of "balance" as you have implied.

Let me be frank, I do not have a good alternative. But implying that limiting character progression is ok because "you don't need it" is garbage reasoning. Some people enjoy stats, let them have their game.

How practical would it be to scale content based on CP instead of vet level? Honestly I have no idea, just a thought. There needs to be complete look at character progression and balance, not just for classes or for champion points independently, but an evaluation and discussion of how they also fit together and how future content can be designed with that in mind.

Seido_Tensei_ · January 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if everyone can get the cap so easily what is the point in having any progression at all. Why not just give everyone max cp? 51 points an expansion is basically that

So what did we have before the CP system? No progression at max vr rank?

The CP system is just one form of progression, it is not the only form.

What is the other form of progression now that I have maxed gear/cp/skill lines etc... on nearly 2 chars... I guess I could reroll another char and do all the same stuff over for a third time.

you did play at max level before CP was intoduced right? what level progression did you have then. none. sheezs stop the obsesion with level progression there is nothing wrong with being max level for a while and enjoy the content. it's not like they won't bring new content every 4 months (if ZoS can keep it up).
maybe start to rethink why you play a game, to gain progress or to sit back and enjoy yourself

I picked up this game on PS4 100% because they had a system for progression in end game. I was a beta tester for PC and left shortly after launch because I quickly realized I would have nothing to do after I leveled up. Yes, some people like progression.

Danksta · January 2016

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Yes it is.

The longer it takes for players to get thousands of CP the better. I've tested how combat runs at 1K,2K,3K, and 3.6k.

I can assure you as the average CP goes higher, the less important resource management and overall player decision becomes.

It's already a joke at 501cp. The whole CP system needs a complete overhaul. Give players choices that need to be made which will result in more unique CP load outs and also take out the excessive resource crutches.

Point is, the system needs to be done better.

do you think 15 years to reach the cap is reasonable though? I understand where you're coming from with the difference of low cp and high cp and I agree the cp system needs reworking but 15 years to reach cap is too much.

Do you actually want to play with 3.6k CPs?? That leaves all imagination out and kills build diversity. That sounds really boring to me. I don't think it should even get to half of that.

BalticBlues · January 2016

51 sounds good to me.
It allows some progression for veterans and catchup for new players.

Playing each day only for one hour,
in 3 months (90 days) new players can get at least 90 CPs.
Playing a little longer each day, least 180 CPs are possible.

This way the veteran/newbie gap can close instead of getting bigger and bigger.

Didgerion · January 2016

coolermh wrote: »

I mean if you just use your enlightenment you get over 90

It is appropriate for some players and not for others...it depends on how much you play the game.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

@Sypher y u got no avatar? I agree 51 is good.

Kammakazi · January 2016

Why people jumping to conclusions?

I'm pretty sure they will

Increase CP cap by 51
Get feedback from players
Consider increasing the next cap by a high number instead of 51
???
Happy

Autolycus · January 2016

hydrocynus wrote: »

At 450,000 xp per Cp (i know it will be more but trying to simplify the maths so haven't got into figuring out the average), 51 CP is 13.5 times more xp than grinding 2 VR levels like was needed after Imperial city DLC. If you were already VR14 then after 1xp you became V15 and only had to level 1 VR level and in that case the 51 CP is 27 times more xp required. If you consider they didn't level it again for 2 DLCs it is 54 times more grind to get to level cap now in the same time !!!!

I don't think these numbers are accurate... You can't use the rate for your current CP rank to calculate what the 51-point increase beyond the cap is. Although I do agree that a good number of us in the community could afford to be a bit more patient and open-minded when it comes to the cap increase. Here's what I think:

1 veteran rank is 800,000 exp. One CP at the current cap is just over 900,000 exp. It's like earning just over a veteran rank each time you get a CP at the capped rate, in terms of experience gain. Except when you achieve a new vet rank, your character becomes substantially better statistically, both in base increases to attributes and the ability to wear gear at that rank. This far outweighs the benefits of one additional CP, which is a fractional increase to one stat. Also keep in mind that in some cases, like with Elfborn, one additional point grants nothing for increased spell crit damage if you're between the "step-up" points.

The key point I'm trying to make here is that, once you reach a certain point in Champion rank, it's no longer progression. Yes, there is a significant difference between a player at 300 CP and 500 CP. But once you get to that point, progression is earned through gear. And I think that when they remove vet ranks, this'll be even more true.