ZOS marks themselves as non competitive

Nifty2g · January 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Pretty much addressing Group Damage my main question is, why? Why are ZOS doing this, why are you making it okay to spoon-feed players non stop instead of making them progress as a player? This is a fantastic addon, people fake their DPS all the time. Sure it gives players the opportunity to be rude and so called "elitist"but every game that involves DPS is going to do such thing.

Poor decision to do so, not only that but I believe this addon handles things in a very unique way to show percentages rather than your damage per second. Quit babying players and creating a barrier.

ESO is so gear intensive if you have the wrong gear you're going to be doing poor damage at least this gives the opportunity to know who is lacking in your group and offer them advice at least that's something I have done several times

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Honestly this addon actually took away from the elitest and abrasive attitude that some people tell stories about being kicked for not pulling high DPS. Before the only way to truly see someone's DPS was to have them post from an addon like FTC, Combat Analytics, or something else. These were many times doctored or flat out ignored by players, which usually ended up on them being black listed for lying or refusing to share their damage. Many guilds had to make the choice because in end game content you need to have a bench mark in order to actually complete content, and there was no way to see if a player was pulling their weight unless they complied. Refusing to comply meant they could either let them stay and forever not know, or to take the safe route and just not have them come again.

Now with GroupDamage I've actually been helping even more players learn more about their specs because I can see actual data in front of me to find out where they could be lacking. Before I wasn't able to send people tells saying things like, "Hey, noticed your damage is a little bit on the low end, are you interested in boosting your performance?" or something of the letter. Being the guild leader of NA's top PvE guild I often run with players who are trying to join our ranks, and GroupDamage was a massive boon that helped me determine if a player was qualified, or close to qualifying if they made some adjustments. I was able to walk by them step by step and notice flaws in where they'd spike and dip in damage based on rotation, mechanical issue, or just plain low damage output from shoddy gear choices. Not only this but this addon actually has brought a lot of friendly competition and drive back into players in our raids to put more effort forth. They know we all see the damage done and want to impress or improve, so they put in more work. Removing this puts us back to everyone just hiding their data and a lack of forward progress to be made.

Right when I think ZoS can't make any worse decisions than they already do, they just continue to impress me by how incompetent they are. If you want players to enjoy your game, you need to have a system in place that allows growth to occur. GroupDamage was finally a step in the right direction that was starting to allow the "elitests" to start realizing what other players struggle with, and help them. Yes, some underprivileged children or egotistical brats abused this system in the wrong way that made some other players feel excluded, but that is in the MASSIVE minority. This is like you removing crouch from game because a few players decide to t-bag others with crouching over and over. Stop letting the loudest and worst voices dictate your decision making.

Takllin · January 2016

Go away you elitist scum! /s

Yeah it's a poor change, but ZOS always caters to the common denominator.

Thelon · January 2016

Forum QQ is OP

Nifty2g · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

Go away you elitist scum! /s

Yeah it's a poor change, but ZOS always caters to the common denominator.

It's meant to be an MMO, addons like this are here to help the top players compete and improve themselves when comparing against high numbered percentage players.

But ZOS ban it to protect the sorcerer sitting at the back of the group throwing hardcast crystal fragments at a boss.

Ridiculous decisions lately, but if you really want to proceed to take this game down the slippery slope of non competitive content why not remove leaderboards too?

Recremen · January 2016

Aww, my group loved that addon.

Aeladiir · January 2016

Dang it. Loved that Add-On. Learned so much from it as far as my build is concerned. Well ... it was short and sweet, I guess.

Preyfar · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yeah it's a poor change, but ZOS always caters to the common denominator.

It's meant to be an MMO, addons like this are here to help the top players compete and improve themselves when comparing against high numbered percentage players.[/quote]
Add-ons already exist which can auto-broadcast how much DPS you did in a fight and share said information. Encourage others in your group to do the same and share information, communicate, etc? All this add-on does is let you look at what other players are doing and essentially snoop.

Competitive is good, but competitive players and min-maxers can work together to help identify build issues and improve.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Hey at least you can see your own DPS/HPS we console players can't even see that!

TheBonesXXX · January 2016

This is not a good decision on ZOS part, this will hinder people who want to configure their own character.

Nifty2g · January 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yeah it's a poor change, but ZOS always caters to the common denominator.

It's meant to be an MMO, addons like this are here to help the top players compete and improve themselves when comparing against high numbered percentage players.
Add-ons already exist which can auto-broadcast how much DPS you did in a fight and share said information. Encourage others in your group to do the same and share information, communicate, etc? All this add-on does is let you look at what other players are doing and essentially snoop.

Competitive is good, but competitive players and min-maxers can work together to help identify build issues and improve.

It's quite easy to fake FTC, you could easily just write your report up before the final boss even happens. Some players probably do that too

Gilliamtherogue · January 2016

Honestly this addon actually took away from the elitest and abrasive attitude that some people tell stories about being kicked for not pulling high DPS. Before the only way to truly see someone's DPS was to have them post from an addon like FTC, Combat Analytics, or something else. These were many times doctored or flat out ignored by players, which usually ended up on them being black listed for lying or refusing to share their damage. Many guilds had to make the choice because in end game content you need to have a bench mark in order to actually complete content, and there was no way to see if a player was pulling their weight unless they complied. Refusing to comply meant they could either let them stay and forever not know, or to take the safe route and just not have them come again.

Now with GroupDamage I've actually been helping even more players learn more about their specs because I can see actual data in front of me to find out where they could be lacking. Before I wasn't able to send people tells saying things like, "Hey, noticed your damage is a little bit on the low end, are you interested in boosting your performance?" or something of the letter. Being the guild leader of NA's top PvE guild I often run with players who are trying to join our ranks, and GroupDamage was a massive boon that helped me determine if a player was qualified, or close to qualifying if they made some adjustments. I was able to walk by them step by step and notice flaws in where they'd spike and dip in damage based on rotation, mechanical issue, or just plain low damage output from shoddy gear choices. Not only this but this addon actually has brought a lot of friendly competition and drive back into players in our raids to put more effort forth. They know we all see the damage done and want to impress or improve, so they put in more work. Removing this puts us back to everyone just hiding their data and a lack of forward progress to be made.

Right when I think ZoS can't make any worse decisions than they already do, they just continue to impress me by how incompetent they are. If you want players to enjoy your game, you need to have a system in place that allows growth to occur. GroupDamage was finally a step in the right direction that was starting to allow the "elitests" to start realizing what other players struggle with, and help them. Yes, some underprivileged children or egotistical brats abused this system in the wrong way that made some other players feel excluded, but that is in the MASSIVE minority. This is like you removing crouch from game because a few players decide to t-bag others with crouching over and over. Stop letting the loudest and worst voices dictate your decision making.

Heindrich · January 2016

This is a terrible decision.

Elitist jerks will be jerks whether a public dps meter exists or not.

With a public dps meter available, they will quickly identify the weak link and kick him quickly with minimal fuss and easy justification. Without a dps meter they will get frustrated and rage at the noobie after discovering the weak link later in the dungeon run, and then kick him.

Most elite players already use personal dps meters and can easily tell if somebody in the team is not pulling their weight. With a public dps meter aspirational players will be able to see how their performance compares with others and seek to improve. And nice elite players who don't kick/abuse noobies now will also not kick/abuse noobies once they can see their dps numbers. They already know.

Shader_Shibes · January 2016

Was only a matter of time before the QQ carebear society got their way with this addon.

Nifty2g · January 2016

Heindrich wrote: »

This is a terrible decision.

With a public dps meter available, they will quickly identify the weak link and kick him quickly with minimal fuss and easy justification. Without a dps meter they will get frustrated and rage at the noobie after discovering the weak link later in the dungeon run, and then kick him.

Here's truth, I don't need a DPS meter if I was going to kick you from group for doing poor damage.

I look at your skills and your rotation and already know what your average DPS will be.
But you know I play with the top players of NA, and every single one of those guys in this guild offer help to players. The addon just helps

Addihul · January 2016

I am extremely disheartened by this. I help lead a highly competitive trials guild on the NA side. Ever since this addon came out, we have been using it like crack to help improve and tighten up anomalies we have seen in our group make-up. It helps us enormously. I can see overall damage (don't care so much about DPS) from all of our players over the course of an entire raid. We are in the business of getting better, and our officers and I can see right off the bat where we need to improve.

I imagine this addon was not written with epeen stroking or DPS bullying in mind. Whoever actually comments in groups that PUG players are under performing need to keep their drama to themselves. Use the add-on for what it was intended for. We sure are. Seeing this go by the way side makes me cry inside.

Gilvoth · January 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

one of the BEST decisions zeniamx has made in a long long time.

Ghost-Shot · January 2016

Decisions like this really make me question why I didn't just move on to FF14 with Da Funk when they left. Taking away one of the most useful add-ons thats ever been made and was going to be a very useful tool for progression guilds right before the games first progression cycle in a year and a half, brilliant ZOS, GG.

sirrmattus · January 2016

@Nifty2g

I personally use Groupdamage, and think it is amazing. Helps me better myself, and I have yet to rage on a crappy dps'r

Frawr · January 2016

Deleted.

pointless.

sirrmattus · January 2016

Addihul wrote: »

I am extremely disheartened by this. I help lead a highly competitive trials guild on the NA side. Ever since this addon came out, we have been using it like crack to help improve and tighten up anomalies we have seen in our group make-up. It helps us enormously. I can see overall damage (don't care so much about DPS) from all of our players over the course of an entire raid. We are in the business of getting better, and our officers and I can see right off the bat where we need to improve.

I imagine this addon was not written with epeen stroking or DPS bullying in mind. Whoever actually comments in groups that PUG players are under performing need to keep their drama to themselves. Use the add-on for what it was intended for. We sure are. Seeing this go by the way side makes me cry inside.

THIS!!

@zos

Artjuh90 · January 2016

to the OP, stop being elitist

Nifty2g · January 2016

Frawr wrote: »

it really is sad just how much this company panders to the lowest and weakest people.

Why? why is your target audience the crappiest of players? Surely you can make more cash out of competitive players paying monthly? Why focus on B2P for casuals?

Short termist 'cash cow' business model on a product that could quite easily be a Star.

./facepalm (again)

I don't think I've actually heard of someone being kicked from group because of the addon and destroying this community

It's mostly those with a fear of under performing and having their damage known and develop some sort of insecurity because ZOS has been spoonfeeding them from the beginning so now they are too scared to even progress. It's a video game meant for fun and competition.

The other day I played with some people who have never really done PvE before and we did White Gold Tower, they were fighting each other about who did the most damage and it was really fun to tell the their results for the hilarious reactions and it made them both try harder to do the most damage and get a little competitive while joking at the same time, they didn't care if it was low or not

ZOS_AlanG · January 2016

There's current an active thread discussing this UI information here. To keep the topic focused, we're locking this and ask that it move over to the other thread.