mattymaats wrote: »

SnuggleMePlease wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

SnuggleMePlease wrote: »

Lazrael wrote: »

So I'm sure this discussion has come up for a while and to most this is old news, but I just tried to get back into the game from a long time away, so there yah go.

Why do I need to see a bloody ad every time I log into the bloody game.

I thought we had been over this already ZOS!

When I want to worship the gods of consumerism guess what? I GO TO THE LOCAL SHOPS!
I know where the crown store is, don't worry.

But when I log into a video game that I have already spent more money than on would consider sane on, I log in to play, not to spend more money.

At this point, I think most adults with a functioning brain and a bank account are well aware of the "ZOS WANT MORE MONEY!" mantra.

So there, I've said my peace in regards to what I suppose should be another unsurprisingly tasteless little choice.

Chime in if you like, or just let this pass into the forums graveyard, but for the love of The Nine please don't give me the, "well you just have hit escape when you log in stop whining OMFG!" Yes I know thank you for stating the obvious, doesn't make the ads, or you, any less annoying, but thank you.

You're right! This is an outrage! If only there were some button you could press to simply exit out of this screen after you login. Oh, wait! There is! All you have to do is press the 'Alt' button to exit the screen. You could have solved your problem with a single keystroke without coming to the forums to complain about inconsequential things using many keystrokes. Think of all the energy you could have saved your fingers!

I barely finished reading the last part of your post, so you'll have to excuse my first paragraph. I really don't understand why you think something has suddenly changed. Of course, ZoS wants money. They are just as much a business as they have always been, a corporate entity that exists solely to make a financial gain by providing you with a service/product that you enjoy.

If you've believed anything different up until now, you're only deluding yourself. Does this mean that they shouldn't provide a quality and comprehensive service that satisfies their customer's desires? Of course not.

The only difference now is that their pay model is shifting towards micro-transactions. Whether or not this is good or bad is an entirely different conversation altogether. For me, personally, I would have never been able to afford to purchase the game, and then pay a consecutive subscription fee. So, in this aspect, I have benefited from this development. However, in the micro-transaction model, you have to advertise your micro-transactions, else less people will buy them. It is simply how things go.

firstdecan wrote: »

We knew this was going to happen when ZoS stopped making this a subscription service and made the game f2p (or whatever bastardization of f2p some pedant is going to flame me about).

It is B2P + Micro-transactions, not F2P. I mean, that isn't even a bastardization of free-to-play, so you're not even anywhere near the mark. In fact, they're polar opposites.

I'll accept the apology, JUST DON'T LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN!!! Kidding obviously.

But is this really something that we should just accept as the status quo? Is consistently misleading your most avid player base really going to help your long term survival? I don't think so and I don't really think it's particularly good business.

Look when I first heard the game was going to be on the subscription model, I thought it was a stupid, near sighted plan, but damned if they didn't stick to their guns and make a fine argument for it, so I got behind them with the expectation that they'd back up their talk. They didn't. That's fine, glad it made the game accessible to a wider audience, like yourself, but I know a pattern of behavior when I see it, and there certainly has been one. That's all. How each person feels is up to them, but lets not muddle the facts.

More to the topic at hand

We have ads in the launcher, I think that and log in screen adds are suitable. Once I get in game, I really don't need to see it, offer me something worth spending money on and if I am so compelled, I'll spend it happily, but I don't log into a game just to be reminded that someone else wants more of my money, quite the opposite actually.

Tell yah what ZOS, you want to add incentive to crown store purchases, stop making me have to open a browser every time I need to purchase crowns. I feel like that would be relatively simple to implement.

I just don't understand why it is such a big deal to you, though. Honestly, it just comes off as wanting to be problematic for no particular reason, or simply due to all of the anti-ZoS sentiment that seems to fester here on the forums. It really isn't that big of an issue, and it probably helps the game much more than it hurts it, and I doubt it hurts it at all. I mean, anything that increases the amount of crowns sold can only help further the game's development. I don't understand why you feel that something as simple and inconsequential as ads has to be indicative of some larger trend. A normal player would simply exit out of the screen and start questing.

A smart player would recognize that--even if it comes off as mildly annoying to him or her personally--it is good to see those ads. After all, it means that there are at least some individuals who are going to purchase an item or two that they wouldn't have, thus perpetuating the game's longevity. This leads me to my next point, since you seem to think that doing this will have the opposite affect. How is ZoS misleading their player base by showing them ads that they can easily exit out of when they log in?

Game developers do not run on artistic vision and integrity, despite what some may think. They work to earn a paycheck, like many here I am sure. You want to really threaten the game's survival? Keep going.

By the way, I agree that an in-game method to purchase crowns would be really nice.

firstdecan wrote: »

SnuggleMePlease wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

We knew this was going to happen when ZoS stopped making this a subscription service and made the game f2p (or whatever bastardization of f2p some pedant is going to flame me about).

It is B2P + Micro-transactions, not F2P. I mean, that isn't even a bastardization of free-to-play, so you're not even anywhere near the mark. In fact, they're polar opposites.

Hook, line and sinker. So predictable.

In your rush to be pedantic you have missed the point. The advertising is not wanted. Even as small of an inconvenience as it may be, it is not wanted. Especially by those of use who have played this game for 2+ years and payed large sums of money to support it. You may not have this perspective seeing as how you've been on these forums for a week (registered January 8th in your profile).

We don't need the advertising in game, it already exists in the launcher. It's simply a sign of the slow and gradual decline ZoS is taking this game in a journey towards making it just another faceless MMO with no artistic vision or integrity. Again, your lack of perspective may prohibit you from seeing the bigger picture. Things as simple as changing all the armors so they are less visually appealing and then offering "sexier" costumes in the cash shop (crown store) is a perfect example of this decline, and then forcing it into our faces with this tasteless unnecessary advertising just adds insult to injury.

And just to be clear, if the game is not a subscription service, it's free to play. It is monetized through the selling of junk that will ultimately become more of a focus than actual game development or improvement. The whole "b2p" misnomer simply serves the purpose of weeding out people who would not have money to spend.

If ZoS doesn't want to sell subscriptions, then they should focus on DLC for monetization. Improve the game in such a way that people want to spend money. These "microtransactions" and the associated advertising are a predatory technique that predominantly targets people with social and emotional issues who use the game as an escape. The whole argument of "the business needs to make money" is a tired, overused trope that puts the cart before the horse (see what I did there). The business needs to create a product that people want and adds value to their lives (entertainment value in this case). If they do that the money will follow. Instead ZoS is using a fundamentally amoral business model that is known to target people with social and emotional issues. This will lead to ZoS focusing on microtransactions and "the junk store" instead of fulfilling the promises they have made to the fan base of making an Elder Scrolls game that is second to none.

The advertising is not a problem, it's a symptom of a problem. It's what we all was going to happen when ZoS stopped making this a subscription service and made the game f2p (or whatever bastardization of f2p some pedant is going to flame me about).

If you had bothered to read my entire post before writing your response, you would have seen that I shared my thoughts about the OP, or "the point" as you have put it here, before I quickly pointed out your flagrantly incorrect surmise.

First of all, lets just get one thing out of the way. I have nothing to prove to you. Yes, I am fairly new to ESO itself, however, I am not new to the ESO community. In fact, I followed the release of ESO months before its release. I joined TESO-RP in December of 2013, joined numerous guilds like The Noore, was a beta tester, kept an eye out for all of the latest news, and became one of the founding members of this community who helped shape the game before its initial release.

When ESO released its plans of a subscription-based pay model, I was shattered. This community that I had poured so much of my time, effort, and talent into was one that I was not going to be able to be apart of due to the fact that I was financially incapable of paying a subscription fee. So, despite your obvious attempt to discredit me without actually addressing the real issue, I'm not a spring chicken. You have no right to talk so condescendingly towards me for simply pointing out an obvious mistake on your part.

With all of that being said, let's say I was some average Joe Schmoe who simply had seen the Christmas discount of ESO and decided to give it a try. New players are the lifeblood of any gaming company. While maintaining a secure player base of long-term is good, new players are what makes sure that the community does not become stagnant. Attitudes like the one you exhibited in your response are the ones that drive them away.

Just to be clear, B2P is not a misnomer. F2P is the misnomer when discussing ESO. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't have had to purchase the game using legal tender before being able to log-in and play. At this point, I don't know how to get across to you that F2P ≠ B2P. Again, they are pretty much complete opposites. However, it appears that you're determined to remain ignorant at this point. Ah, the wonders of the cave.

Why do you purport to speak for the entirety of players who have played the game for 2+ years? Have you done any sort of polling or survey, or is your evidence anecdotal? (If the latter, then it can hardly be considered evidence.) What you're experiencing is the False-consenus effect. The truth of the matter is that you personally feel that ads are indicative of some larger trend that ends in the game's demise, so you assume that other players must have opinions and feelings similar to yours. Don't worry. It is quite common amongst us internet types, as we tend to be more narcissistic than others.

As far as I know, there are two separate teams in ZoS: one responsible for the game maintenance, development, and stability, and the other responsible for releasing new content like DLCs and crown store items. So, I would say it is a bit hasty to say that ZoS is simply going to focus solely on releasing crown store fluff when there is an entire team dedicated to working on the game's bugs and flaws. Besides, having DLCs as your sole source of income is completely unrealistic and I do not know of a single game that does it. Again, if you do know of one, please let me know. It simply wouldn't work because a company would get large amounts of money upon DLC release and for a short time afterwards, but there would be no income for the employees during the interim between that DLC and the next.

There is no evidence to support your claim that micro-transactions prey on those with emotional and social issues. If there is some sort of evidence,--relevant study, survey, poll, etc.--please provide us with a link. Otherwise, I'm not going to address that since it seems to be something that you pulled out of your ass in order to vilify micro-transaction pay models, which isn't very effective as there are legitimate issues with micro-transaction pay models that you could be drawing attention to.

Obviously, ZoS has created a product that people enjoy, else I assume you wouldn't be here having this conversation with me right now. Now, the company must focus on promoting and financially supporting this product to ensure its survival. You would think that with the "large sums of money" you've invested into the game that you would support this so you can continue investing "large sums of money".

In your rush to redeem yourself from your logic's obvious inadequacies, not only did you exhibit an attitude that hurts the game's future far more than the topic of the OP, but you did so through presenting an incredibly poor argument riddled with fallacious reasoning.

This guy! The post deserved an awesome

Also are people seriously so butthurt about a popup for the crown store? Like damn you guys have never played an actual F2P game then which throws ads all over your screen constantly, even with loading new zones... ZO$ need to keep in business and letting people know there's a few cool things they can get in the crown store is fine by me. It seems like the people who are the real life Ebenezers really come out on the forums sometimes to complain about whatever they can.

If you don't like the ads just close your eyes for the first 4 seconds while spamming escape, and yes I read the OP. It doesn't change the fact that this is such a petty thing to moan about if you expect the game to actually keep going and release new content.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Let's use a basic analogy. Say you are a boss and an employee, whom you pay, asks to come in late on rare occassions because something special is happening. Trying to understand that special events can happen you say yes. At first this happens no more than once every few weeks. You appreciate that the employee keeps you informed. Over time however, the employee starts coming in late more regularly. These special events aren't really special any more and now they are late at least one day a week. Now while you are still paying them, they work hourly so it doesn't really cost you anything, but it is still an annoyance none-the-less.

Eventually, the employee just starts showing up late even when they don't have special events that would require it. Every Monday/Tuesday you pretty much expect the employee to be late now, and usualy they come in late every Thursday/Friday too. What was first explained as something that would only happen during special occassions is now happening twice a week. Do you let this behavior continue and risk it becoming even worse, or do you say something to try and dissuade it from becoming even more common?

Divinius wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Let's use a basic analogy. Say you are a boss and an employee, whom you pay, asks to come in late on rare occassions because something special is happening. Trying to understand that special events can happen you say yes. At first this happens no more than once every few weeks. You appreciate that the employee keeps you informed. Over time however, the employee starts coming in late more regularly. These special events aren't really special any more and now they are late at least one day a week. Now while you are still paying them, they work hourly so it doesn't really cost you anything, but it is still an annoyance none-the-less.

Eventually, the employee just starts showing up late even when they don't have special events that would require it. Every Monday/Tuesday you pretty much expect the employee to be late now, and usualy they come in late every Thursday/Friday too. What was first explained as something that would only happen during special occassions is now happening twice a week. Do you let this behavior continue and risk it becoming even worse, or do you say something to try and dissuade it from becoming even more common?

Ok, I like your analogy. Let's run with it...

You're right, in that case, I'd be very unhappy with that employee. And I would want to "say something to try and dissuade it from becoming even more common."

But your analogy is missing a key element to make it more similar to this situation. In the case of the Crown Store ads, they aren't completely frivolous. Ads are needed to help drive revenue from the crown store, and revenue from the crown store is what is supporting this game. If you enjoy playing this game, then you need it to stay running, which means it needs to have a good revenue stream. The ads that you hate seeing are helping to support the game you like playing.

So to extend your analogy, while it annoys you that your employee keeps coming in late, when you finally say something to him about it, you learn that the reason he has been coming in late is that he's been working on the side designing website to help sell more of your company's products. Sure, his actions are eating into the time you are paying him for, but ultimately his actions are helping the company that you enjoy being a part of. Once you find this out, you can't really blame him for being late all the time.

Tryxus wrote: »

Don't you know? Every ZOS employee has 14 hungry kids to feed

Buy a goat so they can eat a steak