Grendel_at_ESO wrote: »

To be honest I think there's too many CP's already, it should be capped at 120 of each. You should have to make choices, cap one tree to gain big bonuses and specialize or spread them out for more lesser bonuses and be more utilitarian. I must admit some of the bonuses are pretty lame though, woooohooo, I can harvest 50% faster! I don't know what with games these days, they seem to let you have everything, there's no give and take anymore. I guess they've given in to the QQ.

Had the CP been capped at 120 per tree (360 total) you would have a lot of people who would have been completely and utterly bored months ago. I personally was at 360+ before they even mentioned implementing a cap. Had they not implemented it, I would probably be 600-700 somewhere. Had they lowered the cap, I would have found very little point in playing anymore, simply because there would have been no semblance of progression left. Outside of getting all gear to legendary and obtaining the best weapons (via crafted or vMA) there really isn't anything else to work towards. At that point it's just a matter of pvping nonstop or running something I've already done 100+ times (and this is not an exaggeration, I've literally run vIP and vWGT 150+ each). And nowadays, I do spend most of my time pvping or farming for mats & gold.

So far, the main reasons people think 51 CP is enough are:

To allow casual players a means to be competitive with those who log many more hours in the game. As a mechanism to allow new players to catchup, presumably to both the above class players

The main reasons for thinking the 51 CP is too low are:

Lack of progression. Stagnation, considering 204 annual CP would mean keeping the same system in place for 15 years and expect it to be interesting. An unrealistic expectation that anyone will care about ESO in 15 years

I don't understand why new and casual players think they should be competitive with more dedicated players. Would someone who swam for a few hours on weekends be as good a swimmer as someone who swims for hours everyday? Are those players who swim everyday going to be as good as an Olympic swimmer who dedicates a substantial portion of every day to not only training, but also nutrition, strength training, etc. Maybe not a great analogy to our game, but the point is those who put more into the game should be better players. Just because you play the game, whether a little or a lot, it doesn't mean we should all be 'competitive', whatever that means.

As I stated in OP, I might be dead in 15 years. I neither want, nor expect, to still be playing ESO in 15 years. Honestly, this is the only MMO I've ever played. I picked it up while I wait for the next Elder Scrolls installment. Without a higher level of CP to chase, there's not much left for me in this game. I expect I can gain 51 CP in the month of initial DLC release. I gained more than that in the first month of Orsinium. If 51 CP/Qtr stands pat, I'll drop my sub and play ESO for a month every quarter. The rest of the year, I have many other games waiting to be played. Who's to say I would even stay interested in ESO in this scenario.

And exactly what build do you think needs all 3600 Cp?

What is your fire mage going to do with all those points in stamina recovery and reduction of coast of stamina skills? He is magicka based so any skills scaling of stamina would not be effective anyway.

What is your tank going to do with 100 Cp in light and medium armor each?

What is your stamina nightblade going to do with 100 points in each of blade/staff/heavy weapon/bow master? Is not like you can use them all anyway?

So the whole 15 years thing is a stupid argument because you cannot use all of them effectively anyway.

hydrocynus wrote: »

And exactly what build do you think needs all 3600 Cp?

What is your fire mage going to do with all those points in stamina recovery and reduction of coast of stamina skills? He is magicka based so any skills scaling of stamina would not be effective anyway.

What is your tank going to do with 100 Cp in light and medium armor each?

What is your stamina nightblade going to do with 100 points in each of blade/staff/heavy weapon/bow master? Is not like you can use them all anyway?

So the whole 15 years thing is a stupid argument because you cannot use all of them effectively anyway.

I certainly agree there is no need for everyone to max out CP in all armor and weapon trees. But for resource trees, I disagree. I have very little stamina for my Sorc. And right now my focus is getting the most out of magicka trees. But because I have so little stamina, I want to max those CP trees to get the most out of what little bit I do have. Now, not only do I have to deal with the CP cap, but can look forward to very low increases in CP.

Acrolas wrote: »

Applied to a five-year plan, 180 per quarter is ideal. Even if you make it twice as long, at 10 years that's 90 per quarter.
This cap implies an 18 year plan. Realist alert: We won't be here in 18 years.

If they want a much lower cap in PVP, fine. But PVE should allow for a broader sense of gain.
Otherwise, more experienced players are going to go spend their money on more rewarding games.

why wouldnt we be here in 18 years? WoW has been around for what is it... 15 years? And this game is better

Edziu wrote: »

for me thisd raising cap is to low....get cap cp after moth from orsinium released, now i have 533 cp (32 after cap need 2x more xp per 1 cp) so until dlc be launchend then i have still capped cp, and always before release next dlc I will have always CP above cap, without using any exp pots, with some breaks in week in the game, just with slow lvling I will have always aboce CP cap..

I'm pve/pvp player and dont have always desire to play ESO without target ( more CP with more efficiency in pve) and then just take break for moths also....because it be boring for me.

pvp almost nonstop identical, zergs and zergs, in pve only daily dung with 1 chance per month to get good monster shouder/helm this my sick luck.

now when I getting next CP above cap...it is more and more borring, getting experience, getting more CP whose i cant use it, such time wasted to getting this exp...2x more per CP and cant use it, in these 4 moths playing with nonstop cap i will get again more than 51 cp, so dlc just be released i will have still cap and some cp to next cap BORING without any efficiency after playing 3 moths here and getting 2x more needed exp than is normally needed

To some extent, you are correct. You have a few more points than I do (currently around 510, don't remember exactly) but we are in the same boat - you and I will pretty much be at the CP cap for the remainder of ESO's lifespan (or for as long as we continue to play).

That being said, If they raise the cap by 100 points, it still really doesn't matter. You're going to hit the cap long before the next quarter mark and they raise the cap again. The only way you won't constantly be at the cap is if the cap is raised by a significant amount: 150, 200, etc. At this point you're going to be grinding out the CP to hit the cap before the next Q, and then you're going to be furthering the gap between you and the newer and more casual players. The point of the cap is to limit this discrepancy so that newer players have some chance to catch up.

For players like us, who are now basically going to be at the cap indefinitely, the focus should be on content.

I'm over the cap and will be for the foreseeable future.

The issue I see with the "argument" being bludgeoned is the concept that 3600 is a cap. Problem being that looking at it like a cap means you believe it's meant to be reached.

Don't look at 3600 as a cap, but as the total of Champion points that can be ever reached.

For the most part, no build will need even close to 3600... no matter how hybridized it is.

I'd rather see higher caps, but I also have higher champion points and I'm not going to look at it strictly from a "I am everything" perspective.

Remove Champion System and bring back soft caps.

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

for me thisd raising cap is to low....get cap cp after moth from orsinium released, now i have 533 cp (32 after cap need 2x more xp per 1 cp) so until dlc be launchend then i have still capped cp, and always before release next dlc I will have always CP above cap, without using any exp pots, with some breaks in week in the game, just with slow lvling I will have always aboce CP cap..

I'm pve/pvp player and dont have always desire to play ESO without target ( more CP with more efficiency in pve) and then just take break for moths also....because it be boring for me.

pvp almost nonstop identical, zergs and zergs, in pve only daily dung with 1 chance per month to get good monster shouder/helm this my sick luck.

now when I getting next CP above cap...it is more and more borring, getting experience, getting more CP whose i cant use it, such time wasted to getting this exp...2x more per CP and cant use it, in these 4 moths playing with nonstop cap i will get again more than 51 cp, so dlc just be released i will have still cap and some cp to next cap BORING without any efficiency after playing 3 moths here and getting 2x more needed exp than is normally needed

To some extent, you are correct. You have a few more points than I do (currently around 510, don't remember exactly) but we are in the same boat - you and I will pretty much be at the CP cap for the remainder of ESO's lifespan (or for as long as we continue to play).

That being said, If they raise the cap by 100 points, it still really doesn't matter. You're going to hit the cap long before the next quarter mark and they raise the cap again. The only way you won't constantly be at the cap is if the cap is raised by a significant amount: 150, 200, etc. At this point you're going to be grinding out the CP to hit the cap before the next Q, and then you're going to be furthering the gap between you and the newer and more casual players. The point of the cap is to limit this discrepancy so that newer players have some chance to catch up.

For players like us, who are now basically going to be at the cap indefinitely, the focus should be on content.

Why should newer players be competitive with established players? It has no impact for questing, and little impact for other content. Dungeons and new DLC scale, and PVP scales. I'm new to PVP. Should I be able to get more AP than someone who has done PVP since game release? There is already a catchup in place for CP. Why should those who put more time into the game be penalized because they play more than casuals? It seems to me that whiners and misconception are ruining this game for those who play more, and for no good reason other than perception of imbalance.

How is giving newer players a chance to make up ground affecting your game play at all? It is just getting more people out in cyrodiil that have a shot at competing or giving raid groups more of a player base to choose from. Unless you dont like fair game play then i guess i could see where you are coming from.

Komma wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

for me thisd raising cap is to low....get cap cp after moth from orsinium released, now i have 533 cp (32 after cap need 2x more xp per 1 cp) so until dlc be launchend then i have still capped cp, and always before release next dlc I will have always CP above cap, without using any exp pots, with some breaks in week in the game, just with slow lvling I will have always aboce CP cap..

I'm pve/pvp player and dont have always desire to play ESO without target ( more CP with more efficiency in pve) and then just take break for moths also....because it be boring for me.

pvp almost nonstop identical, zergs and zergs, in pve only daily dung with 1 chance per month to get good monster shouder/helm this my sick luck.

now when I getting next CP above cap...it is more and more borring, getting experience, getting more CP whose i cant use it, such time wasted to getting this exp...2x more per CP and cant use it, in these 4 moths playing with nonstop cap i will get again more than 51 cp, so dlc just be released i will have still cap and some cp to next cap BORING without any efficiency after playing 3 moths here and getting 2x more needed exp than is normally needed

To some extent, you are correct. You have a few more points than I do (currently around 510, don't remember exactly) but we are in the same boat - you and I will pretty much be at the CP cap for the remainder of ESO's lifespan (or for as long as we continue to play).

That being said, If they raise the cap by 100 points, it still really doesn't matter. You're going to hit the cap long before the next quarter mark and they raise the cap again. The only way you won't constantly be at the cap is if the cap is raised by a significant amount: 150, 200, etc. At this point you're going to be grinding out the CP to hit the cap before the next Q, and then you're going to be furthering the gap between you and the newer and more casual players. The point of the cap is to limit this discrepancy so that newer players have some chance to catch up.

For players like us, who are now basically going to be at the cap indefinitely, the focus should be on content.

Why should newer players be competitive with established players? It has no impact for questing, and little impact for other content. Dungeons and new DLC scale, and PVP scales. I'm new to PVP. Should I be able to get more AP than someone who has done PVP since game release? There is already a catchup in place for CP. Why should those who put more time into the game be penalized because they play more than casuals? It seems to me that whiners and misconception are ruining this game for those who play more, and for no good reason other than perception of imbalance.

How is giving newer players a chance to make up ground affecting your game play at all? It is just getting more people out in cyrodiil that have a shot at competing or giving raid groups more of a player base to choose from. Unless you dont like fair game play then i guess i could see where you are coming from.

By all means, give new players a chance to gain ground. There is already a CP dynamic just for that. Just don't penalize other players by holding them back. As one poster put it, ZOS is telling us not to play so much, we're too strong. And I don't think players who only have time for a few hours a week should be as good as players who log more hours (often called no-lifers, but I find that offensive and judgmental). Nothing stops new players from logging more hours in the game, and they can get very high CP gains.

@Autolycus , how does more CP create imbalance in PVE? Someone new to the game with no CP faces the same content as I do at 450 CP. If this was the same content at game release, I can see how more CP would make a difference. But the content was made so much easier, anyone who learns the game can easily solo almost everything. I leveled a few alts just before CP kicked in, and I could not believe how much easier the game is compared to content at release. Also, since you mentioned bringing in fresh blood, I have to ask what kind of player would you want in your group or guild? Someone who sees the CP mountain as a challenge to climb, or someone so intimidated they give up without trying? Hand everything to someone on a silver platter, and they don't appreciate what they are receiving.

@Ourorboros Anyone with more CP is going to outperform someone with less CP in PvE, regardless of role, and all else constant. I realize that in practice, there is no such thing as "all else constant," but we're speaking hypothetically anyway.

If I'm tanking, and have 500 CP and you compare me to someone with 300 CP wearing the exact same gear, same class, etc. I'm going to be tankier. I have more CP in stam recovery, healing recieved, even increased heavy armor value. The same is true for any dps or heal role. I would have more points in blessed, more points in magicka recovery, or more points in thaumaturge, etc. The imbalance exists between players, the only real difference is that said players are working together against NPCs, not against players.

Without the catch-up feature, players who started playing sooner will always have an advantage. A new player is not necessarily a bad player or a casual. I see no reason to force them to be stuck behind forever. I don't really think it matters if main story / Cadwell's gold & silver / original dungeons / etc. is easier now than it was in the before time. Those players aren't going to be doing Cadwell's forever. At some point they're going to want to do vIP and vWGT, vMA, SO and any other future content.

I fail to see how the catch-up feature is handing it over on a silver platter. I just brought a new tank into my guild <2 weeks ago. He just started playing this game, and he's a good player. Does he have 500 CP? No. Did we hand him all of the ingots he needed to make vr16 gear? No. He's earned everything he's gotten so far. Now, two weeks later, he is tanking SO, vIP, and vWGT. When he does catch up in CP, he will be even better at what he does. Could he continue to do the current content without gaining any additional CP? Well, sure I suppose he could, but then what reason do we, who are already at the cap, have to want more CP?

And since you asked, I want players who have the ability to listen and learn. I don't care if you started 2 years ago or last week. If you have the ability to learn and improve, and you can get along with others, then I see no problem with you being in my group.

Its absurdly to low, I fully expect it to change very soon.