(Video)RÁGE PoV - GvG Event(NA) 1/15

Manoekin · January 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ok so my reactions:

Way more negates than I thought. Really didn't see that coming at all. I think my expectations are colored there cuz most of my fights against Rage or Haxus I tend to see very few negates, and I really thought people would lean more towards tanky with DPS ult burst. Interesting

You can tell Dynamic doesn't run vamp, very tanky. Favoring standard over leap is intriguing, the heal debuff vs hard burst is fun to see play out. Like negates DKS is ground control which I thought would be less important here but it seemed to work out fine for all involved.

Bat bombs didn't seem to work well, they were well kited which is odd considering how effective ground control was.

A few other things but overall very enjoyable and went against many of my expectations

Negates are great... They aren't 1.5 and below amazing, but they serve as a great way to disrupt tempo and protect ground based ulti's.

Leap is still a great burst ulti, but that heal debuff brings so much added utility in combination with other ults that it makes it truly invaluable, especially when you have to stay mobile and can't have someone hanging in the back with a meatbag.

Bat bombs are really deadly, they work great in open world, even in gvg, the problem is mainly when other groups exercise nice denial of mobility, or kiting as you mentioned.

Well that's the funny part, people kited the bat bombs but stood in the DKS and Negate. Was intriguing but it worked!

Haha where there is a standard, you can bet there will be a plethora of talons, and associated CC/burst dmg to capitalize.

Negate with immobilizes was probably the most deadly part of the event. I think the GvG is all about area control. If you control where the enemy can't be then you control where they will be. Let's you know where to keep the pressure up, or also gives you time to regroup. Leap isn't as effective at the start imo because everyone guaranteed has full stam or immovable up. It's a cheap ulti, better to get a standard first and leap in a protracted fight where the enemy won't have as much stam to block or roll.

I think bat bombs could be more deadly than they were, but in that environment they could be used better maybe.

FMonk · January 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ok so my reactions:

Way more negates than I thought. Really didn't see that coming at all. I think my expectations are colored there cuz most of my fights against Rage or Haxus I tend to see very few negates, and I really thought people would lean more towards tanky with DPS ult burst. Interesting

You can tell Dynamic doesn't run vamp, very tanky. Favoring standard over leap is intriguing, the heal debuff vs hard burst is fun to see play out. Like negates DKS is ground control which I thought would be less important here but it seemed to work out fine for all involved.

Bat bombs didn't seem to work well, they were well kited which is odd considering how effective ground control was.

A few other things but overall very enjoyable and went against many of my expectations

Negates are great... They aren't 1.5 and below amazing, but they serve as a great way to disrupt tempo and protect ground based ulti's.

Leap is still a great burst ulti, but that heal debuff brings so much added utility in combination with other ults that it makes it truly invaluable, especially when you have to stay mobile and can't have someone hanging in the back with a meatbag.

Bat bombs are really deadly, they work great in open world, even in gvg, the problem is mainly when other groups exercise nice denial of mobility, or kiting as you mentioned.

Well that's the funny part, people kited the bat bombs but stood in the DKS and Negate. Was intriguing but it worked!

Haha where there is a standard, you can bet there will be a plethora of talons, and associated CC/burst dmg to capitalize.

Negate with immobilizes was probably the most deadly part of the event. I think the GvG is all about area control. If you control where the enemy can't be then you control where they will be. Let's you know where to keep the pressure up, or also gives you time to regroup. Leap isn't as effective at the start imo because everyone guaranteed has full stam or immovable up. It's a cheap ulti, better to get a standard first and leap in a protracted fight where the enemy won't have as much stam to block or roll.

I think bat bombs could be more deadly than they were, but in that environment they could be used better maybe.

One of the fights you "forgot" to record had a really effective bat bomb from Haxus, IIRC. Would be interesting to see that to see what went so differently in that fight compared to the others.

caeliusstarbreaker · January 2016

Area control in all it's facets (terrain/CC/etc) is, in my opinion the superior tactic in general.

Satiar · January 2016

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Area control in all it's facets (terrain/CC/etc) is, in my opinion the superior tactic in general.

I'd disagree. In a keep yes, with LoS and confined spaces, but right now with Rapids and purge it's hard to effectively area control versus mobile groups. If they're on it they're usually trying to counter it, but kiting is almost always possible. Especially if you've got someone in there like me who hits Retreating every other cast lol

FMonk · January 2016

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Area control in all it's facets (terrain/CC/etc) is, in my opinion the superior tactic in general.

I'd disagree. In a keep yes, with LoS and confined spaces, but right now with Rapids and purge it's hard to effectively area control versus mobile groups. If they're on it they're usually trying to counter it, but kiting is almost always possible. Especially if you've got someone in there like me who hits Retreating every other cast lol

These fights were 12v12, you can't really have someone hitting rapids that much like you could in a 24 man group. IMO the GvG was about timing concentrated burst with area control abilities/cc to get the initial few kills, and then for the most part the fights snowballed in favor of whoever got the first few kills.

Satiar · January 2016

FMonk wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Area control in all it's facets (terrain/CC/etc) is, in my opinion the superior tactic in general.

I'd disagree. In a keep yes, with LoS and confined spaces, but right now with Rapids and purge it's hard to effectively area control versus mobile groups. If they're on it they're usually trying to counter it, but kiting is almost always possible. Especially if you've got someone in there like me who hits Retreating every other cast lol

These fights were 12v12, you can't really have someone hitting rapids that much like you could in a 24 man group. IMO the GvG was about timing concentrated burst with area control abilities/cc to get the initial few kills, and then for the most part the fights snowballed in favor of whoever got the first few kills.

That's why I'd figure burst would be better, get those first kills off if you can. Personally I run Rapids even on my 1vX builds, have done it all the way since we used to pick at DiE back lines when we were EP gankers. For a Stam NB with siphoning it's extremely easy to do.

Anyways, I can't really protest too much since I wasn't in those fights, but it still is odd for me to see people standing in the red. Can't argue too much with success tho lol. I love ground control, groups just so mobile these days.

caeliusstarbreaker · January 2016

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Area control in all it's facets (terrain/CC/etc) is, in my opinion the superior tactic in general.

I'd disagree. In a keep yes, with LoS and confined spaces, but right now with Rapids and purge it's hard to effectively area control versus mobile groups. If they're on it they're usually trying to counter it, but kiting is almost always possible. Especially if you've got someone in there like me who hits Retreating every other cast lol

Point taken, and coordinated burst is always in fashion. However in my opinion/experience, the totality of area control (los/terrain/CC) are force multipliers beyond just really good dmg.

Manoekin · January 2016

FMonk wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ok so my reactions:

Way more negates than I thought. Really didn't see that coming at all. I think my expectations are colored there cuz most of my fights against Rage or Haxus I tend to see very few negates, and I really thought people would lean more towards tanky with DPS ult burst. Interesting

You can tell Dynamic doesn't run vamp, very tanky. Favoring standard over leap is intriguing, the heal debuff vs hard burst is fun to see play out. Like negates DKS is ground control which I thought would be less important here but it seemed to work out fine for all involved.

Bat bombs didn't seem to work well, they were well kited which is odd considering how effective ground control was.

A few other things but overall very enjoyable and went against many of my expectations

Negates are great... They aren't 1.5 and below amazing, but they serve as a great way to disrupt tempo and protect ground based ulti's.

Leap is still a great burst ulti, but that heal debuff brings so much added utility in combination with other ults that it makes it truly invaluable, especially when you have to stay mobile and can't have someone hanging in the back with a meatbag.

Bat bombs are really deadly, they work great in open world, even in gvg, the problem is mainly when other groups exercise nice denial of mobility, or kiting as you mentioned.

Well that's the funny part, people kited the bat bombs but stood in the DKS and Negate. Was intriguing but it worked!

Haha where there is a standard, you can bet there will be a plethora of talons, and associated CC/burst dmg to capitalize.

Negate with immobilizes was probably the most deadly part of the event. I think the GvG is all about area control. If you control where the enemy can't be then you control where they will be. Let's you know where to keep the pressure up, or also gives you time to regroup. Leap isn't as effective at the start imo because everyone guaranteed has full stam or immovable up. It's a cheap ulti, better to get a standard first and leap in a protracted fight where the enemy won't have as much stam to block or roll.

I think bat bombs could be more deadly than they were, but in that environment they could be used better maybe.

One of the fights you "forgot" to record had a really effective bat bomb from Haxus, IIRC. Would be interesting to see that to see what went so differently in that fight compared to the others.

I don't doubt that. I don't remember much of the fights except for what I could rewatch. It could have been the first fight where we were a little less mobile and trying to play more defensive. Had to switch up things after that. All of those fights were real close TBH.

WRX · January 2016

Yeah, and the whole GvG spent most its time around that hill. If you tried to keep kiting any of the groups without putting pressure on them, you are going to lose at least one.

And yeah, Vasha pretty much summed it up, thats why I blew my negates early just to get one or two magicka builds down hopefully. Worked on some, but when I was talking with him later he felt it didn't do much against khole. Either way it still gave a pause and allowed us to dictate where some of the fights went.

But CC was the biggest part IMO. I spent the entire event just streaking people to spread them and drop their stam. Worked really good I feel, and when khole was doing it to, it caused problems.

Sanct16 · January 2016

Very interesting to watch. Would have loved to see the losses too but maybe someone will upload another POV at times or smth.

Personally I am surprised to not see more group movement. After the initial impact both groups seem to be mostly standing in/around each other without proper repositioning. I personally feel like there is not much point in stayin inside the enemy group after the detos went of. Disengaging, repositioning and reengaging adds a lot of control to the outcome of the fight as you decide where and when to fight and can time your burst without opening yourself to a coordinated detopush from the other group.

But of course there are different ways to play which is great and I'm glad that you had success with the way you went.

Regarding bats, we had everyone in Banana Squad cure vamp for the last EU GvG event. Don't see why anyone would come to a GvG as vamp, batswarm is mediocre against organised groups at most and you open up yourself insane burst from enemy dawnbreakers. You can maybe have 2-3 nightblades as vamp for the damage but definetly not more imo.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · January 2016

best round of the whole event IMO was in the Rage vs Haxus video at 1:35 .....almost wish I was in the stands just to see what it looked lik , but leaping through the air was alot more fun

Satiar · January 2016

Only nice thing about Vamp is mobility of Bats. If your NBs aren't running bats and you're going ground control, hell id roll a veil.

Sanct16 · January 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Only nice thing about Vamp is mobility of Bats. If your NBs aren't running bats and you're going ground control, hell id roll a veil.

Open world bats is nice but in GvG i feel the risk of getting oneshot by dawnbreaker isn't really worth it. There is lot of alternatives that also provide good damage with even more burst such as meteor, dawnbreaker, soul tether, etc.
Personally I don't like Veil for a GvG too much which might be related to how we play. But when would you use a veil? When the enemy group is pushing, you probably don't want to stack in a veil so you are better of with barrier. When your group is pushing veil doesn't really do much so you would achieve more by using a burst ultimate and time it with your detos.

Satiar · January 2016

Sanct16 wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Only nice thing about Vamp is mobility of Bats. If your NBs aren't running bats and you're going ground control, hell id roll a veil.

Open world bats is nice but in GvG i feel the risk of getting oneshot by dawnbreaker isn't really worth it. There is lot of alternatives that also provide good damage with even more burst such as meteor, dawnbreaker, soul tether, etc.
Personally I don't like Veil for a GvG too much which might be related to how we play. But when would you use a veil? When the enemy group is pushing, you probably don't want to stack in a veil so you are better of with barrier. When your group is pushing veil doesn't really do much so you would achieve more by using a burst ultimate and time it with your detos.

I prefer veil to most other ultis a NB had. Soul Tether isn't a game changer, and hits for nothing as an AOE compared to a well specced DK leap. I know some people like it for burst but I just never find myself using it well and no one ever does it to me or my group in a way that makes me afraid of it.

Meteor is cool except a reflect can ruin you and your team, too easy for this to go wrong with soft targeting, and if it's blocked it does little (and it will be blocked, long windup, or just removed via cloak or purify)

Bats is nice but makes you squishy, only works if you're coordinating bats and have Heavy Healing.

My ultis of choice would be Soul Harvest and Veil. Soul Harvest is deadly if you're going single target, nuff said.

Veil is, to me, basically a better version of Nova for GvG. It's not particularly threatening (so it's often not instantly negated like DKS or Nova) but the snare is big and the Damage Recuction is huggggge. Its a great way to mitigate burst bombs or to just give your healers a temporary place to stand. I actually love using veil for getting pushed, I can stand in it and fear/snare as much as I want and not really take a ton of damage.

I still use veil in keep fights and open world a ton. People rarely "waste" a negate in it but 30% mitigation to everyone standing in it is amazing. I see plenty of Novas in those fights but I don't see the synergy murdering anyone, so its basically down to damage reduction and snares, no?

EDIT: I just find in 12v12 burst is less intense, so 30% mitigation means more

igyyroub17_ESO · January 2016

I'm a retired player but I still love to see this content, keep up the great work!

WRX · January 2016

IMO the reason veil is so useful, is most people don't realize its going down in non-gvg situations. The snare is nice, but honestly I dont think I would run it in this environment.

There isnt enough chaos, and most would notice the veil right away and negate you or just let you waste the ulti.

PhatGrimReaper · January 2016

That tri-faction free-for-all needs to be a weekly event..... sooo much fun.... so little lag! Most enjoyment I have had in this game in a long time.

Manoekin · January 2016

@Sanct16 I don't like veil much either. Would rather bats or tether. I think NA may have developed differently from EU. There's a lot more spreading out and recondensing, more chaotic. From experience people that stay in a tight group for too long get punished.

Satiar · January 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

@Sanct16 I don't like veil much either. Would rather bats or tether. I think NA may have developed differently from EU. There's a lot more spreading out and recondensing, more chaotic. From experience people that stay in a tight group for too long get punished.

Eh, to each their own. I really don't see the difference between veil and nova for ground control (nova synergy is nice but ultimately not a gamechanger against good players, you drop it for mitigation first and damage second). If you're willing to drop DKS, Nova or Negate, veil goes right along with.

The thing I really really do like about is what WRX said, it's not often negated. I think this is mostly because it doesn't have offensive properties. People like to use Negates to attack but there's also the importance of saving one to save your team in the OSH!T moment. Veil doesn't necessarily pose a direct offensive threat (it's about providing safe ground) so it's not an instant reaction.

I don't think it has anything to do with spreading either, anymore than negate or nova or DKS. It's just mitigation that can help you either tank a bomb, counter a bomb with your own + added mitigation or just give safe ground for certain members while the chaos goes round. I think the easiest agreement here is that NBs do not really have great ultis, it's best of a poor lot or extra-class ultis

IxSTALKERxI · January 2016

Reguarding the ulti discussion it is different depending on the situation.

12 man GvG inside a restricted area uses different ultimates then a fight in open world, keep, 24v24 or against 50 pugs etc. Different ultimates are better in some of those scenarios than others.

Glarin · January 2016

This was amazing. I would love it if Relentless Order/Fantasia could join in the next GvG event. We've been working hard on our group comp and we are almost set.

MountainHound · January 2016

Nice videos but was just curious as to whether the barriers on LUI raid are bugged? I heard them being called for and there were no orange over health and you seemed to all take no damage for periods of time.

Would be cool to see videos from the others perspectives of same fight.

Looked like fun!

themdogesbite · January 2016

,

Manoekin wrote: »

@Sanct16 I don't like veil much either. Would rather bats or tether. I think NA may have developed differently from EU. There's a lot more spreading out and recondensing, more chaotic. From experience people that stay in a tight group for too long get punished.

Maybe we have to start our EU vs NA GvG PTS discussions again! It's intresting to see the diffrence in playstyle along the servers.

To be fair though, the only other guild i can see that have a similar playstyle to us in Banana Squad on EU is the newly formed Astrum.

TBois · January 2016

These were great to watch! They made me log a few times this week. Much appreciated, Haxus for hosting and all the other guilds who participated.

Manoekin · January 2016

themdogesbite wrote: »

,

Manoekin wrote: »

@Sanct16 I don't like veil much either. Would rather bats or tether. I think NA may have developed differently from EU. There's a lot more spreading out and recondensing, more chaotic. From experience people that stay in a tight group for too long get punished.

Maybe we have to start our EU vs NA GvG PTS discussions again! It's intresting to see the diffrence in playstyle along the servers.

To be fair though, the only other guild i can see that have a similar playstyle to us in Banana Squad on EU is the newly formed Astrum.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler wtb both regions on the PTS for at least one week

igyyroub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm a retired player but I still love to see this content, keep up the great work!

sixuponthelot wrote: »

These were great to watch! They made me log a few times this week. Much appreciated, Haxus for hosting and all the other guilds who participated.

Awesome!

MountainHound wrote: »

Nice videos but was just curious as to whether the barriers on LUI raid are bugged? I heard them being called for and there were no orange over health and you seemed to all take no damage for periods of time.

Would be cool to see videos from the others perspectives of same fight.

Looked like fun!

I think my group likes to *** with me and not use barrier when I ask for it, and other times I'm just calling for barriers, negates, any ulti when we're all spent haha. As for not taking damage, we had quite a bit of healing and tried to stay out of obvious situations where we could get hit by a lot of damage. I think being the aggressor was important in these fights at least for us and helped a bit with that.

Leovolao · January 2016

Looks pretty fun! Awesome job Mano!

WTB DC or AD group for the next GvG!!

TBois · January 2016

Leovolao wrote: »

Looks pretty fun! Awesome job Mano!

WTB DC or AD group for the next GvG!!

Count me in your grp tea :P the event would give me incentive to lvl my DC alt

WRX · January 2016

ORR ORRR

AD!

EDIT: Either way im in.