NO skill line with dark brotherhood nor thieves guild [confirmed on eso live]

catalyst10e · January 2016

I mean... technically when you join the Thieves Guild, or the Dark Brotherhood in other TES games, they never taught you anything extra. You were accepted because of your merit and skill, the skills you already possessed prior to joining. Sure, in like say, Oblivion, they had a vendor who sold some "unique" spells but I mean as a whole the DB never taught you to be a better assassin, they just gave you contracts and said "go kill".

From a gameplay standpoint, adding skills would mean they'd be skills for everyone, so if you added more stealth, and CC abilities, (things a Thief might use to complete his task and get away) you're also handing those skills off to EVERYONE, do you want Sorcs or DKs to be more stealthy? Do you want NB to get another skill to make them invisible? It could cause a power creep. Better they work on rebalancing existing skills/classes instead of piling on more and creating new problems. What might be good for once class could cause another to become OP.

AfkNinja · January 2016

I would be more okay with the choice to not add new skills if the reasoning wasn't "We don't know how to balance our game.". That just sounds lazy to me...

silky_soft · January 2016

Haha, "we want more build variation but you get no new skill lines". hahaha.
ha

Mashille · January 2016

Thieves Guild skills could just be for fun or utility purposes, maybe a Decoy of yourself. Just have SOMETHING... please.

Arshiya · January 2016

What Catalyst said. Plus even if you had DB skill line, it would be just adding nightblade skills to world skill set, which is not really balancing you know. Then Thieves skill line is already there. Its called Ledgermain.

Smokescales · January 2016

A stamina version of mage light where a nightingale circles the player and it adds weapon crit and stamina instead. A poison version of molten weapons for DB, some evasion type skills, heck, even a high evasion chance ultimate or something. The skills don't have to be stealth related to fit in with the guilds, surely the devs can come up with something to fit the themes.

Even crafting poisons in alchemy would be a nice addition to fit in with DB.

catalyst10e · January 2016

Smokescales wrote: »

A stamina version of mage light where a nightingale circles the player and it adds weapon crit and stamina instead. A poison version of molten weapons for DB, some evasion type skills, heck, even a high evasion chance ultimate or something. The skills don't have to be stealth related to fit in with the guilds, surely the devs can come up with something to fit the themes.

Even crafting poisons in alchemy would be a nice addition to fit in with DB.

Well the problem then would be, 1) focusing too heavily on Stam builds leaving magicka builds out of the loop on the new skill line they would have had to pay for 2) if someone is paying for a skill line they'd expect it to be fairly new skills, a stamina morph of magelight is different but not new (would be easier to change the morph on magelight rather than a stamlight) 3) adding moves like a poison version of molten weapons diminishes the class skill given to DKs, it'd be like giving everyone a cloaking move, if you can cloak in any class NB becomes less unique. and finally 4) theres a star in the CP system that raises poison damage, to open up an ability like molten weapons to all classes would mean magicka based classes's putting points in Thaumaturge would just wreck face, and give them a boost above stam builds.

I know your point is the devs should have found SOME way, but my point is just theres a lot that goes into adding a skill, especially one that all classes would have access too, and even more especially if people have to pay for the skill line, which means it'd have to be accessible to all build types.

BabeestorGor · January 2016

Not keen on new skill lines locked behind paid content so this doesn't make me unhappy.
I can just imagine the cries of PTW if they had announced new skill lines with dlc.

I would like to see crafting poisons added to the base game at some point although it might open up a can of balancing worms.

Smokescales · January 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

Smokescales wrote: »

A stamina version of mage light where a nightingale circles the player and it adds weapon crit and stamina instead. A poison version of molten weapons for DB, some evasion type skills, heck, even a high evasion chance ultimate or something. The skills don't have to be stealth related to fit in with the guilds, surely the devs can come up with something to fit the themes.

Even crafting poisons in alchemy would be a nice addition to fit in with DB.

Well the problem then would be, 1) focusing too heavily on Stam builds leaving magicka builds out of the loop on the new skill line they would have had to pay for 2) if someone is paying for a skill line they'd expect it to be fairly new skills, a stamina morph of magelight is different but not new (would be easier to change the morph on magelight rather than a stamlight) 3) adding moves like a poison version of molten weapons diminishes the class skill given to DKs, it'd be like giving everyone a cloaking move, if you can cloak in any class NB becomes less unique. and finally 4) theres a star in the CP system that raises poison damage, to open up an ability like molten weapons to all classes would mean magicka based classes's putting points in Thaumaturge would just wreck face, and give them a boost above stam builds.

I know your point is the devs should have found SOME way, but my point is just theres a lot that goes into adding a skill, especially one that all classes would have access too, and even more especially if people have to pay for the skill line, which means it'd have to be accessible to all build types.

Yeah, the ideas were just something that came from top of my head atm, i still think there is some skills they could fit in that don't clash with classes and fit the themes though.

Thevampirenight · January 2016

They better have skill lines for both dlcs, because we need more skill lines.

Dermestes · January 2016

I think the skills should be slightly less efficient versions of class skills for the thief dlc. Maybe a cloak that is less useful than a nb cloak. Poison skills for db dlc. I know most of these would be nb skills but would open new gameplay to other classes.

ajwest927 · January 2016

So the thieves guild and dark brotherhood not getting a skill line, would zos ever planning on adding new skill line in game?

HooisierBoy · January 2016

Lol this is ridiculous, I honestly love this game but cmon now, it will be 2 years plus without any new class skills added in the game if u add in the release of Thieves Guild DLC . I understand the balancing part of it I really do. I can't see myself playing through dlc after dlc with the same skills(boring) they need a dlc called bug fixes and skill fixes lol but for real I was expecting some type of skills and passives to help add a little spice to the game, o well I guess my hopes was to high

starkerealm · January 2016

HooisierBoy wrote: »

Lol this is ridiculous, I honestly love this game but cmon now, it will be 2 years plus without any new class skills added in the game if u add in the release of Thieves Guild DLC . I understand the balancing part of it I really do. I can't see myself playing through dlc after dlc with the same skills(boring) they need a dlc called bug fixes and skill fixes lol but for real I was expecting some type of skills and passives to help add a little spice to the game, o well I guess my hopes was to high

Well, if you want to pin your hopes on something, maybe the new character slots being added means that, maybe, someday, we'll get new classes.

HooisierBoy · January 2016

Lol thats just a cash grab but hey I went from optimistic to pessimistic from now on lol but I do love the game, I just want it to succeed and be great

Gamerscape2007 · January 2016

reften wrote: »

really what other skills can you have in the game.

CC
Single target
AoE
execute
purge
buff
heal
Kinda run out of things after that

I challenge you to come up with a new skill that isn't OP, isn't worthless, and isn't already in the game.

Blinds. Didn't templar had that before it got change with jesus beam?

Asherons_Call · January 2016

reften wrote: »

really what other skills can you have in the game.

CC
Single target
AoE
execute
purge
buff
heal
Kinda run out of things after that

I challenge you to come up with a new skill that isn't OP, isn't worthless, and isn't already in the game.

This sounds right. There are only so many different types of skills and they are all pretty much already covered. I'm failing to understand the negativity. I agree with their current goal of improving the existing framework before getting trigger happy with too many new additions

HooisierBoy · January 2016

I predict this is whats gonna happen for 2016, mark my words!! They are gonna change and rehash some of the skills we have then it will take another 6 to 8 months to try to re balance them again

HooisierBoy · January 2016

I can think of a whole bunch of skills that need to b added in this game or skills people want in this game, and one thing u have to remember is that people play games to have fun first and foremost, and when people get bored they tend not to play plain and simple! This game has alot of potential and I support it 100% but im kinda of mad at Zos they need to hire me to plan the road ahead lbvvs

starkerealm · January 2016

reften wrote: »

really what other skills can you have in the game.

CC
Single target
AoE
execute
purge
buff
heal
Kinda run out of things after that

I challenge you to come up with a new skill that isn't OP, isn't worthless, and isn't already in the game.

Debuff.
Taunt.
Movement.
Utility.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2016

Good. If the skills are overpowered, there would be cries of "Pay 2 Win!" because TG/DB is DLC. If the skills are not overpowered, there would be cries of, "Why did I pay for these skills when they are no better than my existing Nightblade/Sorceror skills!" Adding more skills to the game is a lose-lose proposition for ZOS at this time. They are better off spending time on making existing Dragonknights and Templar skills more viable than adding yet more moving parts to a game where half the classes are already at a serious disadvantage in both PvP and VMSA.

CaptainObvious · January 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

I mean... technically when you join the Thieves Guild, or the Dark Brotherhood in other TES games, they never taught you anything extra. You were accepted because of your merit and skill, the skills you already possessed prior to joining. Sure, in like say, Oblivion, they had a vendor who sold some "unique" spells but I mean as a whole the DB never taught you to be a better assassin, they just gave you contracts and said "go kill".

From a gameplay standpoint, adding skills would mean they'd be skills for everyone, so if you added more stealth, and CC abilities, (things a Thief might use to complete his task and get away) you're also handing those skills off to EVERYONE, do you want Sorcs or DKs to be more stealthy? Do you want NB to get another skill to make them invisible? It could cause a power creep. Better they work on rebalancing existing skills/classes instead of piling on more and creating new problems. What might be good for once class could cause another to become OP.

In previous TES games, as you advanced in a guild, that opened up more services and capability. However, also in previous games, your effectiveness with a skill line was based on your skill in that skill line. The higher your long blade skill, the more damage you deal with long blades. You can wear daedric armor as long as you can manage the weight, but if you have a lousy heavy armor skill then you don't get much protection from it.

TESO threw that baby out with the bath water. The trade being skill lines as opposed to effectiveness and tiering. There are no attainable ranks in the Fighters or Mages guild. So stating that since it wasn't that way in the past is not a valid argument for this game. You can have a 50 blacksmithing skill and not be able to craft anything beyond iron.

Additionally, as for rebalancing existing things. They have been doing that for 2 years now. There is as much complaining now as there was back then. Noone will be happy one way or the other, but the system is "working" as they have not shuttered the game. The thing about a new skill line is that it can be used to supplement the existing class skills and be available across the entire class-base.

There was a post showing class skill gaps. Instead of modifying the existing skills to fill those categories of gaps, why not do so via another skill line?

This supplemental skill idea is why people have been looking for spell crafting.

As for do you want DKs and Sorcs to be more stealthy? Maybe this is an in roads to "play how you want..."

CaptainObvious · January 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Good. If the skills are overpowered, there would be cries of "Pay 2 Win!" because TG/DB is DLC. If the skills are not overpowered, there would be cries of, "Why did I pay for these skills when they are no better than my existing Nightblade/Sorceror skills!" Adding more skills to the game is a lose-lose proposition for ZOS at this time. They are better off spending time on making existing Dragonknights and Templar skills more viable than adding yet more moving parts to a game where half the classes are already at a serious disadvantage in both PvP and VMSA.

So what I hear is retread the same stuff that has been constantly retread for the past 2 years. I'm sure it will be different this time.

HooisierBoy · January 2016

Lol I dont get the"making skills more viable" part at all, they been changing the skills and updating them since the beginning, if they haven't fix them or made them viable by now then most likely they wont ever be, and every time they change a skill they unbalance the game even more to the point they have to patch in another change 3-6 weeks down the line, they need to fix the skills they have so they work accordingly so they can add some skills to the game instead of changing the same skills over and over cause people complain about nerf this and nerf that, how can you balance a game if u constantly changing skills thats in the game

JoshenReborn · January 2016

This coupled with the knowledge that spell crafting isn't planned for this year is really disappointing. Learning new and effective combos, and having more choices might help move us away from the 1 skill spamming we currently have.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Well I have mixed feelings about that it would have been nice to have a new skill line but locking it behind a paywall is not good. simple solution put a representative that gives the SKILL LINE and ways to advance it in outlaws refuges put the rest of the content behind the DLC.

Count_Dracula · January 2016

Doesn't Legerdermain cover the THIEVES guild anyways?

Detector · January 2016

No new active abilities in new DLC? Again? TESO begins to die...

kongkim · January 2016

Posion crafting.... where is it

Holycannoli · January 2016

No skill lines, so what will be the point of the guilds?

I'm struggling more and more trying to figure out the point of these upcoming DLCs. I can see a DLC like Orsinium having no new skills, but Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood? Even Undaunted has a skill line.

Will they merely exist for us to obtain new "whatever will be the equivalent of v16 gear"? Simple assassination quests for DB, or theft quests for TG, will be boring and IMO not worth spending money on.

reften wrote: »

really what other skills can you have in the game.

CC
Single target
AoE
execute
purge
buff
heal
Kinda run out of things after that

I challenge you to come up with a new skill that isn't OP, isn't worthless, and isn't already in the game.

Charm person/animal/monster/undead, bard musical skills, necromantic life leech and pets, elemental atronach pets, bound weapons, illusions, shape shifting. I can probably think of more.

There are a ton of skills they can add to this game, but they won't.