Why do Vampires have a double negitive?

MornaBaine · January 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

Then take in to account vampire stages and feeding.. this one I find just more annoying then anything... Why cant we drain animals? why cant we stealth feed on non-enemy NPC's in towns... <--- this is a huge gripe to me. As long as you are not spotted by another npc you should be able to stealth feed on NPC's. Also stage one vampirism is way to short.. its should be backwards to the way it is.. hour for 1, 2 and 3 and 30 mins to get to 4.

Been begging them for this forever. They refuse to answer. It's incredibly frustrating. Pretty much any time vampires are mentioned, the post is ignored by the Devs and this has been true since day one.

Yeah, and that is a discussion worth having.
Oh, and also... why no feeding on willing PC friends?
Why no "gourging" to extend stage 1 per another 30 minutes per additional feed??
Or why no magical ways to preserve blood somehow to have bottles woth of feedings for better stage control???

All things I'd love to see...

Definitely! And can we get that "Back to Mortal" skin in the Crown Shop PLEASE??? The timers on the Stages is all effed up and always has been. All they REALLY need to do is swap out the times on 1 and 3 and I'd be happy. It makes little sense that freshly fed vampire "degrades" so quickly to begin with and yet each successive stage is LONGER than the one that preceded it? No. Just, no. FIX IT ALREADY ZOS! Or AT LEAST have the courtesy to explain to us why you won't.

Alucardo · January 2016

So you want 10% physical reduction alongside Undeath, and god forbid your Vampire is a Nord. gtfo

Alucardo · January 2016

For those that complain Werewolves have no downsides to being a Werewolf in human form, you need to get real. To obtain the stam bonus they have to have the ultimate slotted on each bar. They also don't get any benefits from the Werewolf tree without changing - they are just a plain human. A vampire is a vampire - you always get access to your skills and passives, so you need to stop crying.
If you hate being a Vampire so much, then just don't.

Lokryn · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

A vampire is a vampire - you always get access to your skills and passives, so you need to stop crying.
If you hate being a Vampire so much, then just don't.

Not arguing with your point but this is not entirely true. Vampires have to slot one of their abilities to get the stam/magicka regen.

danno8 · January 2016

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

This change was the killing blow to my vamp existence.

The only thing that requires a skill to be slotted was the passive regeneration (supernatural recovery). You get all the other passives all the time. Source: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/p1

The only thing that needs to be changed for Vampire is the extra 60% damage you receive from Fighter Guild abilities. This is way too strong a passive to allow in PvP. Whatever for PvE but it should change to only 25% bonus if target is another player.

TBONE_OG · January 2016

tennant94 wrote: »

You should get the magicka and stamina recovery regardless of having a vamp skill slotted, you're always in vampire form technically. It would balance out the negatives .

This is how it used to be until IC DLC/patch came out. A very ignorant change made that needs to be reversed.

ShadowDisciple · January 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Give up dude. This community is toxic towards vamps. I've already had this fight and was beat down by the community. Doesn't matter what you say or how glaringly obvious that vamps are underpowered and unbalanced compared to ww, the community will always say they are op or balanced. Just because they hate vamps. ZOS thinks that balance = batswarm, speed, lackluster decreased damage passive, and magicka/stamina regen vs increased fire damage, fighters guild skills, usable slot, slow health regen, and 2 useless skills. Mist doesn't work right due to stacking cc and drain is pointless in pvp. It's a losing battle.

lol .. ww's are bad... vamps are op and great... thats why im vamp...deal with it

TheShadowScout · January 2016

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Give up dude. This community is toxic towards vamps. I've already had this fight and was beat down by the community. Doesn't matter what you say or how glaringly obvious that vamps are underpowered and unbalanced compared to ww, the community will always say they are op or balanced. Just because they hate vamps. ZOS thinks that balance = batswarm, speed, lackluster decreased damage passive, and magicka/stamina regen vs increased fire damage, fighters guild skills, usable slot, slow health regen, and 2 useless skills. Mist doesn't work right due to stacking cc and drain is pointless in pvp. It's a losing battle.

lol .. ww's are bad... vamps are op and great... thats why im vamp...deal with it

Whenever I follow such discussions, I imagine the rest of the community as the villagers that show up at the vampire players homes with torches and pitchforks...

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^ agreed. WW should be a full time thing.

I could live without werewolf being a full time thing. I think some of the WW skills should be usable in human guise.
I think if they were able to do that it would solve everything. Hircines bounty for instance could very easily be a
choice to use OTHER than slotting transformation. My main problem with WW in its current iteration is that in order
to get the benefit it has to be on BOTH bars. I have no problem with slotting WW on one bar, but frankly its a liability if I have to slot it on both. WW is situational. There are times where using WW can be extremely powerful, and other times where it can get you killed almost on sight. Personally I'd like to see the Fear effect and Hircines bounty be skills a player can slot. I think perhaps to make being WW more of a liability in this instance, they could also give it a 20% chance to force you into WW form if you have enough ultimate to do so. This would make it so you have to be a little more tactical about using your WW abilities.

With regard to vampire I'm finding mist form just doesn't cut it anymore. The Drain is still a pretty horrible skill and has always been so, but the two Bat Swarm ultimates are still quite nice. I don't mind if WW and Vampire gets more skills, but I want to see more Fighters Guild skills as well (and not necessarily just monster hunter skills). My main reason for using vampire lately is for thieving as a nightblade, but I've been doing that a long time. I have to agree that I'm not too fond of the health regeneration negatives, and I personally feel that disadvantages certain races more than others (Orc, Nord, Khajiit for example).

Autolycus · January 2016

Your issues as a vampire stem primarily from the knowledge of how to beat them. Vampires used to be incredibly difficult to beat in pvp, and very little has changed to the vampire skill line since then. In fact, the fire damage debuff on vampires is actually less significant than it has been historically.

There is another factor that is not being considered here as well. Vampires take reduced damage at low health, which when used properly, can be very clutch. As a werewolf, the only benefit you retain outside of werewolf form is stamina recovery (provided it's on your bar) which is nice, but not a game changer in most cases. Keep in mind also that more and more people are learning to deal with werewolves now too. I've seen more than a handful of wolves go down as soon as they transformed. Both vamps and WWs have one key inherent flaw, and that's giving away your own weakness. A lot of people run poison enchants on their weapons in cyrodiil too, so not everyone is out to get just vamps.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

So you want 10% physical reduction alongside Undeath, and god forbid your Vampire is a Nord. gtfo

undeath doesn't work... move along..

old_mufasa · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Your issues as a vampire stem primarily from the knowledge of how to beat them. Vampires used to be incredibly difficult to beat in pvp, and very little has changed to the vampire skill line since then. In fact, the fire damage debuff on vampires is actually less significant than it has been historically.

There is another factor that is not being considered here as well. Vampires take reduced damage at low health, which when used properly, can be very clutch. As a werewolf, the only benefit you retain outside of werewolf form is stamina recovery (provided it's on your bar) which is nice, but not a game changer in most cases. Keep in mind also that more and more people are learning to deal with werewolves now too. I've seen more than a handful of wolves go down as soon as they transformed. Both vamps and WWs have one key inherent flaw, and that's giving away your own weakness. A lot of people run poison enchants on their weapons in cyrodiil too, so not everyone is out to get just vamps.

No no no.. we are talking about a 100% uptime on a vampire that means 100% uptime on all the negatives and the negatives far out way the positives.. now if WW still took the 50% more damage even in human from like they did at release then you have a point.. but they don't so they get to pick when they become vulnerable to there weakness.

Vamps have sucked pretty much since the mist form no healing nerf and have declined in pvp a lot.. so now there is no real point to be a vamp in pve or pvp..

To all the people that keep bring up PvP.. that's not the whole game in fact its pretty much the smallest part of the game when it come to content.. and vamps in pve are more a liability then a asset.

As another pointed out vamps have been the same other then a few tweaks.. where WW got a large over hual and I think its time that they get it...

Alucardo · January 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

undeath doesn't work... move along..

So ask them to fix it instead of adding more crap that could potentially break. Move along.

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2016

Some one wasn't here when vampires ruled PvP.

AshTal · January 2016

I hope vampires die off, I remember when in PvP every other player was a vamp. Ever battle was just a mass of batswarms. Then to add to it the vamp players moaned that they were not powerful enough and didn't feel like vampires.

The big thing I would say is vampire is a choice and if you are doing it to power play then if you don't like the fire damage increase don't do it, if your doing it for roleplay reasons then it wont matter to you if vampires are taking more fire damage. Don't expect to become a vampire and then be 200% more powerful than a regular mortal player.

old_mufasa · January 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

old_mufasa · January 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Give up dude. This community is toxic towards vamps. I've already had this fight and was beat down by the community. Doesn't matter what you say or how glaringly obvious that vamps are underpowered and unbalanced compared to ww, the community will always say they are op or balanced. Just because they hate vamps. ZOS thinks that balance = batswarm, speed, lackluster decreased damage passive, and magicka/stamina regen vs increased fire damage, fighters guild skills, usable slot, slow health regen, and 2 useless skills. Mist doesn't work right due to stacking cc and drain is pointless in pvp. It's a losing battle.

ya doesn't mean you stop trying though... as they say only the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Lenikus · January 2016

Trust me when i say this, I'm a vamp.

Vampire players were so freaking OP back then that it was pitiful looking at non-vamps in PvP. People had no idea what 'Fighter's guild' skill line even was. It was mostly a Vampire Dunmer DK FireMage fest on Cyrodiil. and it was okay. then 1.6 hit and vamps were struck over and over again. with a nerf after another, coming from as early as some 1.something patches.
That put aside, players who roll vampires in their builds are divided in 2, the ones who simply do it because they look cooler, i'm in this group, and the ones who still believe in the 1.5 meta builds.
Those in the latter are so much of horrible players that they needed those perks the OP vampire gave to them to be even barely effective. Those players are the same ones that went asking to remove Camo Hunter entirely even when it was not that skill that was broken, but in reality a mechanics Vampires had an advantage as. Those are toxic players, the kind that would roll a redguard Magicka DK if Deltia told them it was OP.

As far as Vampires go, tho', to get back in track, they HAVE very decent passives for damage mitigation there, and magicka and stam regen with a skill slotted (bat swarm win), and "Health regeneration" is not really a priority when a stamina build can proc Rally and be done with this, and a magicka build has either Mutagen or a frekin' healing ward ready.
Werewolves have it easy due to their weaknesses being only active when they are transformed, But then gain, an WW in human form is just that, human. Not the case with Vampires.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

Trust me when i say this, I'm a vamp.

Vampire players were so freaking OP back then that it was pitiful looking at non-vamps in PvP. People had no idea what 'Fighter's guild' skill line even was. It was mostly a Vampire Dunmer DK FireMage fest on Cyrodiil. and it was okay. then 1.6 hit and vamps were struck over and over again. with a nerf after another, coming from as early as some 1.something patches.
That put aside, players who roll vampires in their builds are divided in 2, the ones who simply do it because they look cooler, i'm in this group, and the ones who still believe in the 1.5 meta builds.
Those in the latter are so much of horrible players that they needed those perks the OP vampire gave to them to be even barely effective. Those players are the same ones that went asking to remove Camo Hunter entirely even when it was not that skill that was broken, but in reality a mechanics Vampires had an advantage as. Those are toxic players, the kind that would roll a redguard Magicka DK if Deltia told them it was OP.

As far as Vampires go, tho', to get back in track, they HAVE very decent passives for damage mitigation there, and magicka and stam regen with a skill slotted (bat swarm win), and "Health regeneration" is not really a priority when a stamina build can proc Rally and be done with this, and a magicka build has either Mutagen or a frekin' healing ward ready.
Werewolves have it easy due to their weaknesses being only active when they are transformed, But then gain, an WW in human form is just that, human. Not the case with Vampires.

They have 2 passives that work stam/magika regen and stealth speed movement.. undeath doesn't work.. I have tested this out and let a mob kill me just stood there and waited.. the last 5 hits were 2146.. no reduction at all what so ever.. so with that being broken you left with 1 good passive and one very situational passive. Most of what I suggested was QOL changes and scaling on the negatives to co inside with the stags of Vampirism.

I agree a lot of this backlash is because of peoples early first impressions and have no grounding in facts on what's in game now.

Lenikus · January 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

undeath doesn't work.. I have tested this out and let a mob kill me just stood there and waited.. the last 5 hits were 2146.. no reduction at all what so ever.. so with that being broken you left with 1 good passive and one very situational passive. Most of what I suggested was QOL changes and scaling on the negatives to co inside with the stags of Vampirism.

Really? i always get hit less in the last hits o.o".. Like, some strikes that hit me for 4~5k hit for 3 or even less the lower they are in teh recap... I guess it's situational ? ._.
...Either way, Vamps still look cool, and people will roll them regardlesss. lel.

Asmodean · January 2016

While I personally love being able to be a werewolf, or a vampire. I also don't think that either of them can be "too strong".

They should be a unique playstyle change, with pros, and cons. Not flat out buffs.

Simply because, if everyone in the game was either a vampire, or a werewolf it would be completely ridiculous.

TheShadowScout · January 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

They get no positive effects either. Which was the "point"
And if they want to have their positive effects, they have to give up their untimate for it for the transformation (which can be wonky, or can be great, but still...)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

I was talking about the backgrounds where "normal weapons" cannot hurt a vampire, through any of the injuries I mentioned, which would hamper or disable undead deaspite them being, well, undead. In pretty much all those backgrounds the extra power of vampires is "balanced" by insta-death in sunlight. Since that would really suck for players, TES games never went for the full effect, but with minor damage instead.
The line of argument was about that balance there. As in "let's not draw on strengths of backgrounds where the drawbacks are equally dire, since balance requires both" and with a notion to not recall that not being MMOs, a lot of those backgrounds are not supposed to be balanced, and thus can do what they want.

And yeah, in many background werewolves are mindless beasts under the full moon. Even in ESO many who haven't yet learned control can go that way... (a certain duke comes to mind). But in just as many, they aren't, one way or another. No valid argument to be had there either way.

old_mufasa wrote: »

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

Broken passives are a valid point.
Strenghts beyond other players capabilities without accompaning weaknesses, not.
The negative "pays" for the positive.

old_mufasa wrote: »

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Yes. One to balance the "package", another to balance the extra lifesteals and to make it better mesh with "undead" lore. The positives -are- worth the negatives in most parts. (especially since you can migrate the fire thing through c-points...)

old_mufasa wrote: »

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

You started bringing in other classes when mentioning they don't get drawbacks for their lifesteals, neither nightblades nor mage-guildies. I was just continuing the thought.

old_mufasa wrote: »

So much fail in your post...

States the one who had to go "bold" to make a point. And for your information, ad hominem attacks is the resort of those whose arguments prove insufficient...

old_mufasa · January 2016

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

They get no positive effects either. Which was the "point"
And if they want to have their positive effects, they have to give up their untimate for it for the transformation (which can be wonky, or can be great, but still...)

Dur.. and vamps give up skills slots or a ultimate to get there passives... hence the 24/7 fire vulnerability.. but even so its still worse for a vamp as they get no passives but still hit with the fire vulnerability even if they don't slot any skills. Oh but wait.. vamps get even more negatives with a 25% to 75% health regen debuff that they have to manage on top of the fact there is more fire damage in the game then disease

old_mufasa wrote: »

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

I was talking about the backgrounds where "normal weapons" cannot hurt a vampire, through any of the injuries I mentioned, which would hamper or disable undead deaspite them being, well, undead. In pretty much all those backgrounds the extra power of vampires is "balanced" by insta-death in sunlight. Since that would really suck for players, TES games never went for the full effect, but with minor damage instead.
The line of argument was about that balance there. As in "let's not draw on strengths of backgrounds where the drawbacks are equally dire, since balance requires both" and with a notion to not recall that not being MMOs, a lot of those backgrounds are not supposed to be balanced, and thus can do what they want.

And yeah, in many background werewolves are mindless beasts under the full moon. Even in ESO many who haven't yet learned control can go that way... (a certain duke comes to mind). But in just as many, they aren't, one way or another. No valid argument to be had there either way.

Not going to get into lore side of it again.. as ESO has already broke lore for gameplay.. yep I know.. so throwing out lore as a reason to have reduced health regen you got nothing....

old_mufasa wrote: »

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

Broken passives are a valid point.
Strenghts beyond other players capabilities without accompaning weaknesses, not.
The negative "pays" for the positive.

They already have one.. its called 100% uptime being vulnerable 25% fire damage one of the most if not the common damage type out side of physical damage.... but as per norm you totally spin and try to avoid the fact that WW only have one disadvantage while in WW form....

the only difference between Vamp and WW disadvantages should be that because the vampire always is stuck with 25% fire vulnerability its has access to its skills 100% of the time.. and WW have 25% disease vulnerability only in WW form and so they only get access to there WW skills and while they are in WW and vulnerable to disease.

You adding as I already said some miss guided notion that vampires have to pay extra for it being up 100% of the time.. they already did that with the 25% fire vulnerability...

old_mufasa wrote: »

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Yes. One to balance the "package", another to balance the extra lifesteals and to make it better mesh with "undead" lore. The positives -are- worth the negatives in most parts. (especially since you can migrate the fire thing through c-points...)

Again its a skill they have already paid for.. they didn't get "extra" life steal... Again with your twisted logic you would need to add a ton of more negatives to WW as they have heals, dps and CC all wrapped into one + passives.. so they should have massive amounts of added negatives in WW form other then just 25% disease vulnerability. Oh and before you try to say its not always active.. well there 25 disease is also not always active.. so logic says that...

Werewolfs: positives: while active gets 5 active skills with health/Stam and Magika boosts, damage reduction, CC, heals, gap closers, regen passives, damage passives.

Werewolf: negatives must slot in ultimate, while active take 25% more disease damage.

vs

Vampire: postives: always active, has 3 active skills with health drain, stam and magic regen and aoe ultimate movement passive and damage reduction passsives (currently not working correctly for everyone)

Negatives: negatives always active no matter if vampire skills are slotted or not, must have vampire skill slotted to gain any passives, 100% up time having 25% more damage from fire and health regen reduced between 25% to 75%

Those are not balanced.. a balanced vampire that would compare to what WW have should read...

Vampire balanced negatives: Must have a vampire skill slotted to gain passives, 25% extra fire damage while vampire skill is slotted.

or alternate balance negatives: Vampire passives active all the time with or with out skills slotted and vampire takes 25% more fire damage all the time.

those are balanced vs what WW have.

The better life steal... talk about making crap up.. For one then WW need a lot more negatives as they get 5 active skill including CC and healing and extra damage and regen and damage, regen passives while active.. so already you are way way way behind the balance curve. As all WW have is one negative for 5 active skills and damage and regen passives.

old_mufasa wrote: »

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

You started bringing in other classes when mentioning they don't get drawbacks for their lifesteals, neither nightblades nor mage-guildies. I was just continuing the thought.

AS game skills as in other skills heal and have no negative effects a negative that vamps already paid for with fire vulnerability.. not some stupid random Templar burning out stuff.... talk about panic in a argument..

old_mufasa wrote: »

So much fail in your post...

States the one who had to go "bold" to make a point. And for your information, ad hominem attacks is the resort of those whose arguments prove insufficient...

Are you really that childish.. I was responding in your quotes in bold to make it easier to read... that's proper educate when editing your own comment inside another's quote... grow up....

Troneon · January 2016

What about throwing 25% into less damage from fire in champion points and throwing CP into increased spell resists and magic damage resists?

Would that make any difference or would NB still wreck you in 2 secs?

Thing that pisses me off is mist form is crap, it actually slows you down compared to other speed buffs, doesn't make you immune to CC, you can't use any skills while in mist form so you shoot yourself in the foot and the damage reduction doesn't even work.....

Useless piece of crap skill.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Troneon wrote: »

What about throwing 25% into less damage from fire in champion points and throwing CP into increased spell resists and magic damage resists?

Would that make any difference or would NB still wreck you in 2 secs?

Baseline you still take 25% more fire damage.. just like base line you would still be effected by 25% to 75% negative regen.. the fire and disease vulnerability isn't really what's at issue here.. its the disparity between WW and Vampire balance, vampires being stuck with two different 24/7 negatives even if you are not using a vampire skill in you skill bar.

Also if you spending CP points on trying to counters you negatives then your not spending them some where else for a positive there for as for as using CP points it balances out.. other then the health regen debuff as I don't thing any amount of cp points currently spent can counter the added 75% reduction in health regen at stage 4

Most of what I was posting if people actually read the main thread and not just the title was mainly quality of life changes.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · January 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

So much fail in your thread. Vampires are perfectly fine as they are, as are WW's. If you have trouble performing with a vampire character it is strictly a L2P issue. So many vampires performing exceedingly well in both PVE and PVP.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

old_mufasa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

So much fail in your thread. Vampires are perfectly fine as they are, as are WW's. If you have trouble performing with a vampire character it is strictly a L2P issue. So many vampires performing exceedingly well in both PVE and PVP.

Ya there just fine.. that's why they kept nerfing and buffing them because they were just fine... /yawn.. move along

Ps: learn to read.. the post was about QOL changes and disparity between the two groups.

ShadowHvo · January 2016

I'll just point out that vampires and werewolves in ESO is -nothing- in comparison to all past Elder Scrolls counterparts.

Thank you MMO balancing.

I'm still dreaming that we one day will get a new vampire bloodlines and lycanthropy strain that is a proper version, with both the massive strengths, and massive drawbacks. LET ME BURN IN THE SUN GODDAMNIT!

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · January 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

old_mufasa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

old_mufasa wrote: »

I have both werewolf and vampire and they are not balanced...

So do I, and I have to agree.
My vampy alt does way better with her bloodsucking then my wolfy alt does with her part-time furryness.

The point is, vamps get both the good and the bad all the time.
Wolves only when they transform. (unless the extra staimian regen is still up in human form... I thought they changed that, have I misremembered that?)

old_mufasa wrote: »

Mist form is a out right joke.. when you could heal while in mist form it was .. well in pvp almost op but that was before 1 shot wonder bolts of the fighter guild skills.. So mist from is near pointless...

It has its point, but... yeah, not the greatest thing. If it was at least a toggle and could take you a bit farther that way...

old_mufasa wrote: »

Wolf ultimate vs Vampire.. both have them so they cancel out... even though Wolf form last a hell of a lot longer.. and it should imo.

WRONG.
Since the "wolf untimate" is a -prerequesite- for them to do ANY wolfy stuff. They can either have their wolfy stuff, or a proper ultimate, never both. While vampis can mix and match their vampy abilities as they please... that is a huge advantage.

Totally missing the point... as you don't TAKE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS WHEN NOT IN WW... <--- read again

old_mufasa wrote: »

Ya there undead so why Vamps not given a physical damage reduction passive that has 100% uptime.. I mean after all your undead cuts and bruises should not really effect you unless you get your limb or head chopped off :-)

Or some tendons severed. Or a muscle. Bones broken. Eye split. Nerves cut. Joints damaged.
Heck, even mere "flesh wounds" could plausibly affect vampires since it'd make all their "stolen blood" seep out...

Of course, it could be argued that in many backgrounds, vampires are practically immune to mere mortal weapons. But then, it could also be argued that in pretty much all those backgrounds they burn to ash within instants under the sun...still want to continue that line of argument?
Yeah, thought so.

Not in ESO lore they took damage not instant death... and werewolfs were mindless beats under a full moon in other lore... still want to continue that line of argument? Yeah, thought not

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also WW should be getting obliterated by silver and effected by the moon or vampires vulnerability to the sun is also not in game... so the whole undead and health regen argument is kinda moot...

Vampires has sunlight vulvnerability in other TES games, but they removed that because MMO. Not a choice I think was a good idea, but...
The fighters guild line is also a bit non-traditional.
Traditionally silver should automatically affect werewolves, but not vampires, because "moon metal". And traditionally -blessed- weapons should affect vampires but not werewolves because "holy". And traditionally vampire abilities should not be useable during the day. And traditionally werewolves should be affected by the moon(s), and have to hunt and devour pray during the full moon, possibly becoming bestial and even attacking their own allies/family/loved ones. And traditionally starved vampires should also be prone to uncontrolled attacks whenever they get overwhelmed by all the bloodbags running around.
I can see that fighters guild might be into anti-daedra/undead blessings because of their big "fight Molag Bal" contract. I can see how they might expand that with using anti-werewolf magic, maybe.
Ther est... hey, -I- for one would like to see it in ESO, make vamps or werewolves feel more like borderline monsters then just people with an extra skill line. But that is a different discussion...

That's kinda the whole point.. and as a skill line having a 100% negative uptime with not so great passives is what's at issue or out right broken passives.... undeath does not work.

old_mufasa wrote: »

Also you bring up health stealing.. but that's only a counter to massive health regen reduction.. its not a boon... its just a counter to our negative...

That's -just- what I was saying.

Whatever gave you the idea vampires ought to have some advantage without corresponding disadvantage???
This is a MMO, people playing it are supposed to be -equal- in general power. Which means, unlike in a solo-game where it matters not, any "special" like vampire most have an drawback for every boon they get to maintain the balance.

/facepalm 25% fire damage is the negative... 25%-75% health regen reduction that's a double negative... not hard to comprehend.. so vamps have 2 negatives all the time

Thus the extra lifestealing abilities are balanced by lack of normel "living" healing.
Which isn't much to depend on anyways in our ESO fights.

And yeah, nightblades get to lifesteal through magic without helath regen debuff. (they get no other heals though)
And dragonknights still get to use DGB when vamped.
And Sorcerors still get health through blood magic or dark deals when vampy.
And templars don't self-incinerate when they use heals as vampires.

What the hell.. what do other class have to do with anything... you starting to panic?

So? I see no imbalance there.

The extra lifesteals a vamp gets are balanced by the pretty much nonexistent nominal health regen. In any battle, I am pretty sure you'll lifesteal way more HP through your vampy bloodsucking then you don't regenerate through normal healing. So... its only a disadvantage when the battle is over??? I can live (well, in the case of my vampy alt, be undead?) with that.

Xiana wrote: »

For me, there is even a third downside to be a vamp. Without having a vamp ability slotted, you gain no advantages from passives like faster stealth movement or magica/stamina reg. But you still suffer from the disadvantages like fire weakness or life reg.

Now THAT is a how a valid point looks like!
And one I agree with. If you suffer the drawbacks all the time, which vampires ought to, you also should have the passive benefits all the time, skill slotted or not.

So much fail in your post...

So much fail in your thread. Vampires are perfectly fine as they are, as are WW's. If you have trouble performing with a vampire character it is strictly a L2P issue. So many vampires performing exceedingly well in both PVE and PVP.

Ya there just fine.. that's why they kept nerfing and buffing them because they were just fine... /yawn.. move along

Ps: learn to read.. the post was about QOL changes and disparity between the two groups.

/rolls eyes....They were nerfed because they were atrociously overpowered at launch. Where you not there ? Probably not....many in the beginning of this thread replies with well written responses that completely make sense and that I agree with you choose to ignore them or reply with a one liner.....*grabs popcorn*

P.S learn to play. Quality of life is fine with both groups just as I said in my previous post.

old_mufasa · January 2016

ShadowHvo wrote: »

I'll just point out that vampires and werewolves in ESO is -nothing- in comparison to all past Elder Scrolls counterparts.

Thank you MMO balancing.

I'm still dreaming that we one day will get a new vampire bloodlines and lycanthropy strain that is a proper version, with both the massive strengths, and massive drawbacks. LET ME BURN IN THE SUN GODDAMNIT!

Ya lol.. well better have ground meld skill for vamps...

Funny part is you can run right through town as a WW or a stag 4 vamp and the guards and townsfolks are still all chummy with you.... maybe justice system 2.0 will address that... though if they do.. they need to make it so vamps can stealth feed on non enemy npcs with out getting a bounty if never seen by another npc while feeding as well as feeding off of animals.