Buff DKs to hard-counter gap-closers

MisterBigglesworth · January 2016

Make the DK's Reflective Scales ability also reflect gap-closers such as Ambush/Lotus, Crit Rush, etc.

There could also be a number of secondary effects, such as:

Knocking the enemy player back, or knockdown, or stun, or...
Applying the snare/mini-stun (the one inherent to all gap-closers, the one that ignores CC immunity) to the person spamming it, or...
Have a separate count for gap-closers. Example: reflect 4 projectile and 4 gap-closers for 8 total reflects, or...
Cause the enemy player to continue moving uncontrollably in the direction (and same distance) their gap-closer was taking them (imagine positioning DKs on the frontlines of your group and essentially "pulling" inattentive enemy players up to 44 meters toward you by using their own gap-closers against them! )

MaxwellC · January 2016

They could just make reflect go back to the way it use to be "Reflect all projectiles for 4 seconds". People QQ'd so hard even though they QQ'd almost all of our abilities that ZOS was just like "K you guys just get DoTs #DealWithIt".

MisterBigglesworth · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

They could just make reflect go back to the way it use to be "Reflect all projectiles for 4 seconds". People QQ'd so hard even though they QQ'd almost all of our abilities that ZOS was just like "K you guys just get DoTs #DealWithIt".

I'm fine with that too. I was trying to make this "kill two bird with one stone" by also providing a hard counter to recent gap-closer (Ambush in particular) epidemic.

AriBoh · January 2016

No.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2016

Just remove that stupid root on all gap closers. The game was fine before it was secretly implemented, it will be fine after it is removed.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Make the DK's Reflective Scales ability also reflect gap-closers such as Ambush/Lotus, Crit Rush, etc.

There could also be a number of secondary effects, such as:
Knocking the enemy player back, or knockdown, or stun, or...

Applying the snare/mini-stun (the one inherent to all gap-closers, the one that ignores CC immunity) to the person spamming it, or...

Have a separate count for gap-closers. Example: reflect 4 projectile and 4 gap-closers for 8 total reflects, or...

Cause the enemy player to continue moving uncontrollably in the direction (and same distance) their gap-closer was taking them (imagine positioning DKs on the frontlines of your group and essentially "pulling" inattentive enemy players up to 44 meters toward you by using their own gap-closers against them! )

Doesn't sound like a balanced idea. Sorry mate. Reflect is already a very powerful skill.

The damage and dots are what need adressed.

Drakilian · January 2016

Really, technically, if you think about it, a player hurtling towards you is a kind of projectile, so you should totally be able to reflect a streaking sorc or a crit-rushing dk, or even a focused-charge templar.

Nightblades are still good though. They teleport you see.

Man, *** teleport strike.

NordJitsu · January 2016

That would be insanely over powered.

It's meant to counter range. If it also countered Mele, it would be the ultimate defense ability.

Frankly, it's still too powerful against range. There need to be more non-projectile abilities which do serious damage so they can't be reflected.

acw37162 · January 2016

So one class can combat gap closers, I'm going to guess your chosen class.

I'm going to vote no.

Now, fix spambush and lotus fanbush, stampedebush (in particular those two that impart the oh so broken snare mechanic from the last patch), toppling chargebush (although yo be fair to magica Templars they loose control of their characters about every fifth cast so it is a cheap shoot for them to use it, I'm all for it.

If your giving one clas (outside of nightblades of course) it's cheese back (reflective scales) I want blinding flashes back for my Templar.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

NordJitsu wrote: »

That would be insanely over powered.

It's meant to counter range. If it also countered Mele, it would be the ultimate defense ability.

Frankly, it's still too powerful against range. There need to be more non-projectile abilities which do serious damage so they can't be reflected.

Disagree with this too. RS is fine as is. Don't make it more powerful; don't nerf it either.

Drakilian · January 2016

Okay come on guys, it was clearly a joke post (and would have been a funny one if anyone could take tone into account over the internet).

But for anyone saying reflect is hard to counter, it isn't. Use a destro staff first off (I don't care if you don't like destro staffs and you get more weapon damage from duel wield, you get to weave *** with destro and you get more sustain from said weaving that lets you focus more on damage anyway). Use crushing shock and immediately wipe 3/4 of the allowable reflected projectiles, use it again for the next and then hammer them. If they keep on spamming scales, then let them. Out-sustain them using your shields. Your stamina will outlast their magicka, I promise you, even running stam/mag drinks (which no one does anymore since the orsinium food came out) they'll run out in about 5 scale uses (assuming max length each time), so all you have to do is survive 20 seconds or take 16 of your own projectiles (splitting those projectiles between entropy and crushing shock attacks).

And if you're fighting a magicka dragonknight who can just spam scales forever (instead of a stamknight), hahahaha, it's a magicka dragonkight! What the *** are you worried about?

Personally I like that the stamknight is basically the definitive counter to the ranged magicka attacker though. Like, you actually can't beat a good stamknight as a magicka sorc. They'll just fossilize you to drain all your stam, crit rush or stampede any gap you create, wb to burn through your shields and annihilate your health, and take flight for some added (but entirely unnecessary) burst for some quick kills or another CC. Add some DoTs like Unstable flame or poison injection or whatever, and you'll be ruining the lives of every ranged magicka user you encounter.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Make the DK's Reflective Scales ability also reflect gap-closers such as Ambush/Lotus, Crit Rush, etc.

There could also be a number of secondary effects, such as:
Knocking the enemy player back, or knockdown, or stun, or...

Applying the snare/mini-stun (the one inherent to all gap-closers, the one that ignores CC immunity) to the person spamming it, or...

Have a separate count for gap-closers. Example: reflect 4 projectile and 4 gap-closers for 8 total reflects, or...

Cause the enemy player to continue moving uncontrollably in the direction (and same distance) their gap-closer was taking them (imagine positioning DKs on the frontlines of your group and essentially "pulling" inattentive enemy players up to 44 meters toward you by using their own gap-closers against them! )

Troll Post of the Day

MisterBigglesworth · January 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just remove that stupid root on all gap closers. The game was fine before it was secretly implemented, it will be fine after it is removed.

This would of course be the ideal fix. Since the devs seem opposed to this, I'm seeking alternatives.

NordJitsu wrote: »

That would be insanely over powered.

It's meant to counter range. If it also countered Mele, it would be the ultimate defense ability.

But it wouldn't counter Melee. It would only counter gap-closers. They could also make it so it only reflected 1 gap closer. The DK would have to spam it in order to completely counter Ambush spam.

acw37162 wrote: »

So one class can combat gap closers, I'm going to guess your chosen class.

I'm exclusively Nightblade in PvP. I use Ambush. I recognize it's a problem.
ZOS was already asked to remove the mini-stun but they refused. Okay... so where do we go from here...

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

The damage and dots are what need adressed.

Agreed. Not the point of the thread though.

acw37162 wrote: »

If your giving one clas (outside of nightblades of course) it's cheese back (reflective scales) I want blinding flashes back for my Templar.

Sure, why not? CHEEEEEEEEESE FOR EVERYONE!

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2016

It would probably look hillarious if you could reflect a player jumping you with take flight, but I don't think it would be a good mechanic to add to the game. Explosive charge allready bugs out way to often. If it was also reflectable and glitched like reflected meteors, you could just simply stop using it.

MrGigglypants · January 2016

No lol people are obsessed with being able to escape but the fact of the matter is its pvp kill or be killed. Sorcs can hardly escape anymore themselves and Nbs are too easy to counter with aoes and pots. Try focusing on killing ur opponents because if your dieing to ambush you're a scrub it hits like crap compared to any other major dmg ability WB frag surprise whip etc.

Drakilian · January 2016

MrGigglypants wrote: »

No lol people are obsessed with being able to escape but the fact of the matter is its pvp kill or be killed. Sorcs can hardly escape anymore themselves and Nbs are too easy to counter with aoes and pots. Try focusing on killing ur opponents because if your dieing to ambush you're a scrub it hits like crap compared to any other major dmg ability WB frag surprise whip etc.

People wouldn't be so obsessed with escape if it weren't for the uber-long loading screens and the hours logged into the equestrian simulator

NordJitsu · January 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

That would be insanely over powered.

It's meant to counter range. If it also countered Mele, it would be the ultimate defense ability.

Frankly, it's still too powerful against range. There need to be more non-projectile abilities which do serious damage so they can't be reflected.

Disagree with this too. RS is fine as is. Don't make it more powerful; don't nerf it either.

I may have chosen my words poorly. I actually think Reflective Scales should be buffed back to where it was. In other words, it should be a timer only, not a limited number of projectiles.

I really dislike their balance strategy. When they think something is too powerful, they nerf it, instead of buffing the underperforming skills to give us more counter options.

So what I would do is buff RS back to where it was previously, but strengthen the non-projectile ranged attacks so that you can build a reasonable counter build. For example, add back the Resto Staff passive that gives you more damage with resto when you have more health (because Resto heavy can't be reflected) and buff Curse.