Give me reasons, why you want veteran ranks gone...

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm sure someone's said this reason already (haven't read the whole thing), but the main reason I want them gone is so that you don't feel forced into doing Cadwell's before you can do Craglorn, PvP or Trials. If they had introduced Craglorn as VR5 and Trials as VR10, rather than Craglorn as VR11 and Trials as VR12, the problem people have with VRs would not have existed.

Again that's unlock the areas and scale to lvl. Not remove VR ranks.

That's true, but removal of VRs was on the cards long before scaling zones started becoming common. Flip that on its head for a minute: if everything was unlocked and scaled to lvl once you hit 50, what's the point of keeping the VRs? You don't need them for progression, since progression still exists with CPs, and nothing is locked to CPs like it is VRs. CPs have an added bonus of being invisible, reducing the elitist segregation mentality that was one of the major problems with VRs.

Tannakaobi wrote: »

But this is the point. When people say they don't want VR ranks they are not talking about the name of levels, they are talking about not wanting to play three individual storylines on one character. They still want progression and new content.

This is why I started with it's not the VR's that are the problem. It is the concept of going back in time and doing everything again through the eyes of your enemy. Why would anyone want to do that? It's treacherous.

When people say they want VR removed they are not talking about the name of levels, they are talking about regurgitating quests not designed for them, I.E other factions stories, that's all.

I disagree completely on that stance. There are many people who enjoy the Cadwell content and don't want it removed. There are also many people who don't want to do it because they don't want to betray their faction. VR removal has always been about removing the level separation and content restrictions, not removing (or changing) the content itself. The problem is feeling like you are being forced through Cadwell's in order to get to VR11, which is when the "next tier" of endgame opens up. If the ranks didn't exist, you wouldn't feel forced to do the content, as you would be able to do what is currently VR11 content as soon as you hit 50 (50 is the official start of endgame content). That's the problem here - the separation of players caused by the existence of VRs. If VRs didn't exist, players would be separated by the endgame content they want to do, not the level they have to be to do it.

Uber_Lord wrote: »

Im VR16 and I honestly see no difference. VR16 or level 100 whats the difference? Those 2 words Veteran Rank are quite gimmicky and meaningless. I suposse to look cool for the kids? Same goes with HP and damage increase in tenths of thousands? What's the purpose? To look silly and "cool" for the kids? What's next 400,000 Health and 100k DPS?
I much more prefered the smaller stat numbers back then. Keep it simple, stupid!
Why do somethings for no functional reason?

There is a major technical difference between Veteran Ranks and Levels. Technically, all Veteran Ranks are layers on top of Level 50, not new levels above 50. This affects how XP is given, how quest rewards are treated, how mobs are balanced, and how gear is handled. Gameplay-wise, the difference is that Veteran content is all officially considered endgame content rather than levelling content, which is an obscure situation when you consider that Veteran ranks are then effectively "levelling through endgame", which would be a contradiction.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ok...I've read more than a couple of comments saying don't remove VR levels and make them character levels 50-66.

That's actually removing VR levels because the VR levels are in no way character levels so all of those comments are suggesting to remove vet levels. Further reduce the exp required beyond 49 which.....is removing vet levels in a different way.

But that would be removing VRs and replacing them with something else that works in a similar way, which would not be a true removal, just a reorganization. VRs aren't supposed to be replaced by anything when they are removed, because their replacement already exists (CPs). And it's a replacement that should dissolve all level-binding, as nothing is locked out by how many CPs you have. Reorganizing them into character levels may remove them by name, and change some of their function, but it would retain the level-binding and level-based separation of content, which were the original issues with VRs in the first place.

I'm not sure why you cut out the rest as it seems the part you cut left off context which is why you comprehend my comment incorrectly.

That's not removing VR and replacing them with something else.
Characters are level 50 instead of VR whatever. Gear keeps the stats
NPCs are 50-66 instead of VR whatever to keep the contextual difficulty.

The skill and stat points either are granted at 50 to all, just gone, worked into gear or earned by the first 16 CP's.

That's literally removing all of the VR stuff. CP's stay as they are and there is nothing that replaces VR's
We just hit 50 and choose our next adventures and as a bonus we earn CP's that we can choose to use to make us stronger by character or we use some or none. There is still gear progression so that's in tact. It offers ppl TES difficult sliders so to speak.

Or just read my thread the other day of why removing VRs is a good thing.
....nothing is or needs to replace VR's....the comments are to remove them entirely but not throw off the game

Defilted · October 2015

I've got it!

Reasons!!

F7sus4 · October 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm sure someone's said this reason already (haven't read the whole thing), but the main reason I want them gone is so that you don't feel forced into doing Cadwell's before you can do Craglorn, PvP or Trials. If they had introduced Craglorn as VR5 and Trials as VR10, rather than Craglorn as VR11 and Trials as VR12, the problem people have with VRs would not have existed.

The argument about game being "too long" probably is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in game criticism ever.

No idea why every complainer expects the game to be 20-hours short and have their job done just after finishing their alliance area. Then they complain on lack of content, where there's actually plenty. You don't need to grind at all. Just enjoy your time doing Cadwell's Silver and Gold (also there are Skyshards waiting and Skill-Point rewards during the quests plus Lorebooks).

If you're a newcomer, you have a really smooth learning curve through all VR-zones just in front of you. And no, 50 levels are not enough for you to master the game to actually even start understanding the basics. And here's proof:

Doflamingo wrote: »

I completed all of the quests in Aldmeri Dominion areas and also the Coldharbour quests and (...) i was level 46. When i was going to continue with the Ebonheart Pact quests right when i started the first quests the mobs were all veteran level and i couldnt finish thembecause everything was killing me, the difficuly is extremely hard. Can't you just let us choose to pick normal difficulty for the other alliance quests?

If you're a pro-player, you really don't need to have 8/8 VR16 characters with all legendary gear in perfect traits and immediately right after creating them. If you choose to, however, you know the cost. Whether you "have a life or not" is only up to you.

Volkodav · November 2015

Ya know,I just remembered something.When I talked to Cadwell,he asked me if I wanted to see how it was for a different faction.I remember being given another choice.I didnt HAVE to pick yes.I plan to see what happens to my newest Character when faced with this decision.I am not going to take his offer.I know I can still play the game,but just how will it go.Hmm,..now I cant wait to hit L50,whereas until now,I was dreading it.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

F7sus4 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm sure someone's said this reason already (haven't read the whole thing), but the main reason I want them gone is so that you don't feel forced into doing Cadwell's before you can do Craglorn, PvP or Trials. If they had introduced Craglorn as VR5 and Trials as VR10, rather than Craglorn as VR11 and Trials as VR12, the problem people have with VRs would not have existed.

The argument about game being "too long" probably is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in game criticism ever.

No idea why every complainer expects the game to be 20-hours short and have their job done just after finishing their alliance area. Then they complain on lack of content, where there's actually plenty. You don't need to grind at all. Just enjoy your time doing Cadwell's Silver and Gold (also there are Skyshards waiting and Skill-Point rewards during the quests plus Lorebooks).

If you're a newcomer, you have a really smooth learning curve through all VR-zones just in front of you. And no, 50 levels are not enough for you to master the game to actually even start understanding the basics.

If you're a pro-player, you really don't need to have 8/8 VR16 with all legendary gear in perfect traits and immediately right after creating them. If you choose to, however, you know the cost. Whether you "have a life or not" is only up to you.

Because thats how its done in every other MMO. You complete your Factions Storyline and thats it. Youre not expected to start all over essentially and rise through 16 arbitrary levels that are essentially another 100 levels worth of content condensed.

With VRs removed you hit level 50, begin your work on CPs that you can either grind away at like you are in a rush OR take your time. They wont make or break your character at endgame. If they had just said, you know what youre going to have to level to level 66 in this game to participate in Endgame that would be a different story. But once you hit VR youre held to a new standard of gaining XP. So most turn to AoE grinding mobs to cut corners. Only returning to Cadwells Silver and Gold at their leisure and when they wish for more Skill Points.

Volkodav · November 2015

Wouldnt it be nice if there was NO endgame? People might not be so quick to rush through for the end prize,which isnt really that great to begin with. And perhaps they wouldnt be so angsty about it all. Just let people go on about their happy way,leveling up as they wish.Just no thoughts of it ending. I never think about it ending.I just carry on. The thing about Cadwell's Silver and Gold is that they're the same quests we have played before.Just beefed up to your level is all.Rather boring,that bit.

threefarms · November 2015

Because ZOS hates us

Tectonaut · November 2015

I have no desire to max out 8 characters, I have/use/take pride in 1 character that can be improved upon. Take that away and well, there are other games to play. Don't get me wrong I love TES series, but that would take away the reason I play this specific elder scroll game.

Ampnode · November 2015

I made a post that can somewhat tie into why Veteran Rank removal is going to be a good idea.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/227941/veteran-ranks-champion-points

F7sus4 · November 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

With VRs removed you hit level 50, begin your work on CPs that you can either grind away at like you are in a rush OR take your time. They wont make or break your character at endgame. If they had just said, you know what youre going to have to level to level 66 in this game to participate in Endgame that would be a different story. But once you hit VR youre held to a new standard of gaining XP. So most turn to AoE grinding mobs to cut corners.

You should not be in a rush - you still have 66% of the game content in front of you. You just falsely assumed once you've done your alliance zones, the game is completed. It is not.
Beginners need VR zones to improve their playing skills. Having finished the game with 50 level and nothing more, basically means you'll be failing miserably even at slightly demanding content. (Here's good example.)
VR doesn't change the way you "level up", as many assume. VR1-VR16 is just a "name" for actually virtual 51st-66th level. You still get the Skill Points, Attribute Points and XP the way you always had.
Lastly, it's too late to remove VR without screwing everything up again, starting from basic in-game balance and ending with itemization, gear level, crafting system and nodes.

deleted008293 · January 2016

Hmmm edited.

The good thing:
- you're finally max level. You can finally craft your gears all to yellow and be at peace.

The bad things:
- bugs
- balance issues (game may become too easy or too hard because you're missing them CP's)
- delayed progress
- itemization
- no more farming for raw materials.

Clearly the idea was good to start with but the problem arises when you have to implement it few months later. If it was a day 1 idea then everyone would be content. At this moment probably the best solution is to just replace vr1-16 with classic levels, then just "raise" the level cap a bit higher to a more suitable number like 60 (50+5+5 and ditch the rest), 80 or 100.

Ditching 16 levels mean they have to re-consider crafting quite a lot. Doing so means you might all of a sudden skip some crafting styles if you're still leveling the char at the time. Linking crafting to CP will also be a step back if you want to lets say start over. And once you re lvl 50 you already skipped few crafting styles.

Tomato · January 2016

ZOS never intended for them to be permanent and has said this many times @Runaan

LoreRiley · January 2016

No more Alt grind

kevlarto_ESO · January 2016

When you hit 50 your toon is no where near being complete, there are still many sky shards and skill points to be gained, along with achievements, the game is not going to end at 50, there will be silver and gold to do, but I guess it will be an option if you do not want to advance your toon ay further.

petraeus1 · January 2016

F7sus4 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

With VRs removed you hit level 50, begin your work on CPs that you can either grind away at like you are in a rush OR take your time. They wont make or break your character at endgame. If they had just said, you know what youre going to have to level to level 66 in this game to participate in Endgame that would be a different story. But once you hit VR youre held to a new standard of gaining XP. So most turn to AoE grinding mobs to cut corners.

You should not be in a rush - you still have 66% of the game content in front of you. You just falsely assumed once you've done your alliance zones, the game is completed. It is not.

Beginners need VR zones to improve their playing skills. Having finished the game with 50 level and nothing more, basically means you'll be failing miserably even at slightly demanding content. (Here's good example.)

VR doesn't change the way you "level up", as many assume. VR1-VR16 is just a "name" for actually virtual 51st-66th level. You still get the Skill Points, Attribute Points and XP the way you always had.

Lastly, it's too late to remove VR without screwing everything up again, starting from basic in-game balance and ending with itemization, gear level, crafting system and nodes.

This all only applies to people who don't make alts. I have 3 characters. Leveling them all up to V16 won't only take an incredible amount of time (of which I don't always have many most of the weeks, only being able to play during weekends), it would also have me play the game 3 times over, entirely! If I don't, I have to rely on battle-leveling to do new content, be at a severe disadvantage in PvP and will not even be considered by some to do dungeons/trials with them.

The removal of VR has no downsides, except for the risks involved that you mentioned. Cadwell's Silver and Gold will still be there, there will still be progression, end-game gear, end-game content. There will still be better players and players who aren't as good. It will in the long run bridge the gap between new players and veterans and benefit alts, which is necessary. The longer a game goes with raising levels/VR, releasing DLC etc., the harder it becomes to level alts and for new players to ever get to a point where they can be competitive in PvP/PvE endgame. Especially when they're casual like me. That will turn people off, and battle-leveling is only a hotfix.

Enodoc · January 2016

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

When you hit 50 your toon is no where near being complete, there are still many sky shards and skill points to be gained, along with achievements, the game is not going to end at 50, there will be silver and gold to do, but I guess it will be an option if you do not want to advance your toon ay further.

And even if you do want to advance your toon, you should be able to do that through means other than Silver and Gold. You'll still need to do them for the specific quest skill points, but there's other sources of skill points too.