I don't think the OP makes sense. Stam/heavy users will also be able to put points into this making them even more resistant than the magic/light users ever will be to physical. Not only that the max you get is %25. Also I would not be putting cp into physical resist on my magic toons since you use cp to multiply strengths so I would still be putting cp (if I were inclined to put into resists) into magic resist to multiply the magic resist the mag/light armour toon gets already. Much rather multiply a higher number than a lower one.
I don't get the fuss.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

From the way things are sounding, all magic/light armored builds (especially magicka sorcerers) are about to become way more powerful than stamina builds. The reason why I say this?

From what I've been reading in the champion system thread, what's most likely going to happen is that there's going to be a resist physical damage passive, and they're going to combine Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert into a single passive. Why do I think this is going to be a horrible idea? Because the way light armor is designed. Currently wearing all light gives you a very strong resistance to magic/elemental damage; if they come out with a physical damage passive, it would be a no-brainer to dump all of your points into the resist physical damage passive. This will give magicka users incredible damage mitigation against all forms of damage on top of their damage shields (why even wear heavy armor at that point?). The only way I could justify a physical damage resistance CP passive is if light armor had the lowest physical AND spell resistance. This way it forces people wearing light armor to decide if they want to be resistant to physical or magic/elemental attacks.

Now the reason why I mentioned "especially sorcerers" earlier is because currently sorcerers have to pick and choice between elemental expert (overload damage) and thaumaturge (crystal frags, curse, mines, etc.). If they combine the two into one then sorcerers get it all with one passive. What about stamina DKs that have to balance between elemental expert and mighty? What about bow users that have to balance between thaumaturge and mighty? Or heck any stamina user that wants to increase the strength of their ultimates? Since the grand majority scale off of thaumaturge. So what class is this really benefiting? Hmm?

Stamina users, get ready to get screwed.

If they do add physical damage mitigation, that means ZoS can actually tweek ward's absorbation without turning magicka sorcerers into free AP.

I'm fine with this if stam builds get a 25% damage 25% spell damage redux cp.

Op right now:

I am full stamina Templar and since IC it hasn't been the same. I am rebuilding to a tank seeing as I use my alt for pvp but this is still sad news for stamina.

Why dont they just nerf sorcs and nbs... thats the only issue atm. ***

Drakilian wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Yay magicka users crying even more just what every body needs... Also want physical resistance ? Pool some points into the armor expert trees in the warrior. They increase your armors physical resistance so you'll have to take some points out of bastion to increase your physical resistance.

How are you this bad at math?

Magicka classes wear light armour. Light armour grants the least physical resistance. Armour increasing stars increase your armour by a percentage. This means that out of everyon, Magicka users investing in that star will get the LEAST amount of mitigation humanly possible. Assume 11k spell resist (which amounts to ~15 percent mitigation), a 25 percent boost to that (at 100 champ points) will turn that into ~18.75 mitigation. A whopping *** 3.75% boost to mitigation, for 100 champ points. This is for SPELL resistance by the way, physical will be even lower. In comparisons stam (medium armour users) who have more natural mitigation will get more from investing in the medium armour star, they get a spell resistance star to invest in taht also specifically increases spell resist, AND they get hardy and elemental defender, which trumps both stars by offering direct magical and elemental damage mitigation that gives exponentially more mitigation than what even an all reinforced legendary heavy armour user would get from their heavy armour passive star.

What you're councelling is that a group of squishy people invest their champ points in the star that gives them the LEAST possible amount of mitigation of any star in the champion system. You're also suggesting they take those champ points out of bastion, which will give them the MOST mitigation.

Stop trying to purposely sabotage other people. I say purposely because I can't believe anyone would be so stupid as to actually believe what you stated.

There is also a way to give a digestible explanation for mentally challenged people.
Spell Shield = Armor focus
Hardy/ Elemental Defender = ????

You should rename this "Stamina users, prepare to be balanced"

This is ridiculous, you're complaining about users to be able to mitigate Physical Damage, have you even considered the amount of mitigation you have again mage's? (Hardy, Elemental Defender, Armor Focus, Spell Shield) and you come here with this type of thread? Do you even understand how bad unmitigated damage will be in the long run... you have 3 areas that can't be mitigated, Precise Strikes, Piercing and Mighty. Do you know what this means when the CP cap is raised, it means you get stronger and stronger without being able to mitigate that while Magic more or so stays the same apart from the max resource pool increasing.

There was a reason Stamina was so strong in 1.5 and how much of an issue it was, to quote myself awhile back;

I don't understand, if we have reduction to Poison, Disease, Magic, Flame, Frost, Shock and Damage over Time effects why was Physical Damage left out of the Champion System and still is. It just doesn't make sense, and Physical Damage builds will continue to get stronger and stronger because you can't mitigate any of the damage output against Mighty (Increase your physical damage by x%), Piercing (Increase the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%) and Precise Strikes (Increases the critical damage of your physical attacks by x%).

Your OP doesn't mean anything towards balance the best thing you can do is to split up your points but dumping them fully into Physical Resist is an obviously bad idea as unmitigated Elemental Damage is just as bad if not worse.

I would be more worried about Steel Tornado and the rest of your cheeseball combat exploits are being fixed. It will be a good day for ZOS once they fix this horrendous storm of broken OP Stamina gameplay mechanics **** if you ask me.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

From the way things are sounding, all magic/light armored builds (especially magicka sorcerers) are about to become way more powerful than stamina builds. The reason why I say this?

From what I've been reading in the champion system thread, what's most likely going to happen is that there's going to be a resist physical damage passive, and they're going to combine Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert into a single passive. Why do I think this is going to be a horrible idea? Because the way light armor is designed. Currently wearing all light gives you a very strong resistance to magic/elemental damage; if they come out with a physical damage passive, it would be a no-brainer to dump all of your points into the resist physical damage passive. This will give magicka users incredible damage mitigation against all forms of damage on top of their damage shields (why even wear heavy armor at that point?). The only way I could justify a physical damage resistance CP passive is if light armor had the lowest physical AND spell resistance. This way it forces people wearing light armor to decide if they want to be resistant to physical or magic/elemental attacks.

I guess high spell resist is a matter of perspective, with 5x LA/1x MA/1x HA I get 15.6k spell resist on my sorc which sounds like a lot for mostly light armor but spell penetration is usually higher than that.

Anyone running with a sharpened Mace will ignore most, if not all, of that spell resist.
This means that light armor builds currently have no ways (other mean than dmg shields and block) to mitigate physical dmg.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Now the reason why I mentioned "especially sorcerers" earlier is because currently sorcerers have to pick and choice between elemental expert (overload damage) and thaumaturge (crystal frags, curse, mines, etc.). If they combine the two into one then sorcerers get it all with one passive. What about stamina DKs that have to balance between elemental expert and mighty? What about bow users that have to balance between thaumaturge and mighty? Or heck any stamina user that wants to increase the strength of their ultimates? Since the grand majority scale off of thaumaturge. So what class is this really benefiting? Hmm?

Stamina users, get ready to get screwed.

This one is a little double, on one side magic builds will probably get easier CP distribution to increase magic based dmg. On the other side stamina builds will get easier CP distribution to reduce magic dmg because elemental and magic resist will be combined, according to the rumors.

This means every magicka build will put 100 CP into increased elemental+magic dmg.
And every stam build will put 100 CP into reduced elemental+magic dmg to counter this.

As far as I can see at this point it pretty much cancels each other out, besides the fact that magicka builds have the benefit when it comes to their ultimates scaling up. Magicka sorcs will probably become stronger because they dont have to spread CPs anymore, for other classes I dont think the difference will be significant.

Personally I dont think this will screw stamina builds that much tbh. If I imagine these changes for my vamp stamina NB I think he will only become more durable because I can max both elemental and magic resist with only 100 CPs.

I do agree with the point that ultimates for stamina build often deal magic dmg and require a different CP tree to increase the dmg. There will need to be a lot more rebalancing if all stamina builds ultimates would deal physical dmg, overall stamina builds deal a lot more dmg. This is partly caused by the limited ways for light armor builds to mitigate physical dmg.

Sharee wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

I doubt ZOS can fudge it too bad. OP mentioning sorcs having high potential to get physical damage resistance with already reasonable spell and shields with the change. Does make me question the OPs understanding of game mechanics. Like shields not having any damage resistance.

I think this harping on how shields do not have damage resistance is silly, considering how strong they are.

Sure, they have no mitigation, on the other hand however, a 10K shield with no mitigation is the same as a 5K shield with 50% mitigation. Being able to spam that shield is virtually equal to a maxed-mitigation tank being able to spam a 5K heal.

Not to mention shields being crit immune is a form of mitigation in itself. If i have a 100% crit chance and my crits do 150% damage, then a shield will provide a flat 33% mitigation against my attacks.

@Sharee
you ever played a magicka sorc it seems unlikely if that is your argument? (you ever had a 10k shield ) ....40k magicka gives around a 9k shield in cyrodil with 100 Cp in bastion, that's all i get. Only top top end specs will get close to 10k by gimping damage, and your analogy is terrible and very flawed

a tank at 50% mitigation will get that constant they dont have to spam any abilities not even heals. if you have 15k health sorc (20k in cyrodil) and probably 10k Physical resistance (15% mitigation at most). vs a tank with 25-30k one getting 50% mitigation. tank takes 60k damage to die sorc 33k. +10k per each shield to die. Thats 3 shields = one tank healing for 1.5k health. And that's assuming you let the shield FULLY drain.

without damage mitigation a snipe/La/poison injection from stealth will stun and strip the shield easily. The follow up attack can kill you. And if you are rocking high magicka likely from green/blue food you are dead after 2 CC breaks at most. you cant play like that in PvP

But all that aside well done for missing the point. No sorc should be putting points into resistances if they are relying on shields. They put it into bastion and damage reduction. OPs point is flawed in many ways because of his lack of understanding about the game mechanics don't compound his mistake by making bad analogies. Especially if you have never tried a sorc yourself (this is an assumption maybe you have)

Sorcs are only strong vs magicka classes. They are the strongest magicka vs magicka class. against anything else you should melt them like butter and if you arent, then you need to CC them more.

more physical resistance will NOT change that. if they did a reduced physical damage CP then YES they would become OP and stamina would be getting a nerf. if anything this is a buff to HA users, to resist the overclock of penetration

Tryxus wrote: »

Actually, there is still hope

There is a Great Class Overhaul coming up (Update 9?) that's (supposed to) balance the classes, so maybe the devs are going to make class changes based on the new Champion Point system.

What the snip? Didn't @lurk say a few months ago ,they intend to let the freaking game settle down for a bit.

No. There is no hope.There hasn't been since October 2014

Sharee wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

if you have 15k health sorc (20k in cyrodil) and probably 10k Physical resistance (15% mitigation at most). vs a tank with 25-30k one getting 50% mitigation. tank takes 60k damage to die sorc 33k. +10k per each shield to die. Thats 3 shields = one tank healing for 1.5k health.

A 50% mitigation tank who keeps spamming himself with a 5K heal every second will be able to negate 10000 DPS in incoming damage just as well as a 0% mitigation sorcerer spamming himself with a 10K shield every second. That is if we assume the attacker never crits.

Example: 10000 damage hits incoming every 1 seccond.
- Tank mitigates 5000 of it, takes the rest 5000, and heals himself for 5000.
- Sorc mitigated 0 of it, takes the rest 10000, ans shields himself for 10000 again.
Result: same. Sorc is just as tough to kill as a full tank.

If we assume that the attacker crits, the sorc will be able to negate even more incoming damage than the tank. If the attacker crits 100% of the time, then the sorcerer will be able to negate 33% more incoming damage than the tank.

(and before you claim sorcs don't have 10K shields in PvP - well, tanks don't have a 50% mitigation in PvP either.)

@Sharee I got your point the first time. i dont know why you decided to repeat the exact same thing. the maths was easy to follow.

if you look at one shot. one attack yes the shield is great. but you ignore the size of health pool, the time to kill, the lack of stamina, the inability to reapply when stunned where armor is always up. The fact the tank can block more to further reduce the damage. You are totally blinkered. ive bolded it. so you can see what hyperbole you are using to make your point! and a really rubbish point it is as you are ignoring every other factor but those that strengthen your point, and looking at one attack not the overall health pool and resistances.

by your logic I could argue templars healing themselves for 10k a time(actual value is likely less). And a heal can crit, sorc shields cant crit. so a templar can self heal for larger values by far than my sorc can shield and thats one button. with two champion trees they can use to buff it. and id be talking nonsense. Because one is proactive and one reactive. Thats what you ignore in your narrow narrow view/example. one hit. one attack doesnt reflect the truth of the comparison.

The ONLY reason I'm not getting into this more is because penetration is OP and high armor can be rendered useless in the current PvP system. This makes shields relatively strong.
If ZOS removed all penetration (outside of de-buffing abilities) the game would be a lot more balanced imo. shields are really not all that.

anyway im just going to agree to disagree if you have been on PC since feb and haven't even tried a sorc you likely never will and will always have this same blinkered view.