Nightblades are the most balanced class

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Srsly tho', if a class can hit like a truck, but is rendered useless by one caltrops/flare/random aoe splash they are legit balanced.

LOL stupid pve hero. I use caltrops in all my builds and believe me it only counters bad nigtblades (90% of them) Come on one roll dodge and nb is out of it.

LOL stupid entitled non-reader 1337 wannabe pvp'r
But also, if one skill effectively counters 90% of players from one class, i'd say that class really needs a Buff then.

Or those 90% players need to get better.

But that was sarcasm , he's got a point caltraps is too expensive to spam.

Alucardo · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes and in its place NB should get a magic based damage shield or any damage shield really.

Cloak shouldn't exist for any one, in combat at least. Let's give the class with the highest burst and arsenal of utilities the ability to cloak at will. What could go wrong?
Give them nothing but boundless storm/thundering presence and see what a stam sorc has to deal with. Though a lot of those are now nightblade converts anyway for obvious reasons.

willymchilybily · January 2016

depends if stamina or magicka.

I forsee the following arguments:

Why balanced:

the game is rock scissors paper. classes arent balanced arouind x=y=z but X>Y, Y>Z and Z>X
invisibility comes in potion form too.
The main defencive skill of the NB has direct counters open to ALL where most others have none or limited counters.
debuffing comes from other skills available through weapon skills or world skills all can access.
you must use nightsilence or be a vampire to maximise movement speed when invisible or stealth, reducing combat effectiveness by opening up weaknesses.
movement speed is available to other classes

Why not balanced:

If its balanced than why is it the most popular choice of character in PvP balance would imply an equal distribution of class choice among the player base
no other class can get movement speed and 20% dodge chance at the same time.
no other class can teleport in a non horizontal/ non trackable direction
no other class has a non-ultimate gap closer that teleports to the target avoiding all routing issues
no other class gets critical chance passives to the same extent as a NB
no other class has two damage skills that grant empowering.
no other class can become un-targetable using skills.
no other class gets a Multi target hard CC that (i believe) is not AOE capped?

Lightninvash · January 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They're* not.

/Close thread.

Why though. You have to prove it m8

Sigh:

Most bursty class in the game, stam blades do so much dmg and with vigor + dodgeroll + cloak they have a pretty solid defence.

Stam/Mag class gap closer, doesn't have a min range, mag morph gives 70% snare and snares are strong in this patch, other morth gives empower and a 1s imbolisation on top of the .5s stun all gap closers have.

Concealed/lotus high dmg easiily spammed class skill.

Cloak - dot's are useless vs nb's, your attacks lose target, can reset a fight, best (only) escape skill in game, magblades can inf cloak, stam blades build right can cloak enough with a dodge roll to make it hard to kill them.

15% hp/stam/mag regen

max hp passive

Max magicka passive

crit passive

Also have access to a really good healing skill tree... decent ranged dps/heal, great aoe dmg/heal....

They generate ult stupidly quickly, all their ult's are amazing. Soul harvest is such a cheap good ult, 50, for instant high dmg, 20% more dmg to target and major defile, and regen 10 ult when you kill an enemy...

Permanently have 5200 extra armour from a passive...

that's what the night blades were made for burst dps. I mean they are geared towards stealth killing which means bursting down your enemy before you are noticed. hence all the stealth passives and bonuses while in stealth. that's like complaining that Templars are imbalanced because they heal too good >.>

As a matter of fact, templars do heal too good in pvp, breath of life is probably getting nerfed.

people who think something does too much or not enough can simply switch a class or change abilities its like unheard of ik to actually change the style of play to combat everything instead scream nerf.

Tryxus · January 2016

NB are balanced cuz:

- We can run both viable Stam and Mag builds for stealth gameplay
- We aregood at doing our job -> assassination/ganking

ColtPython · January 2016

Nightblade

I think sorc is the only one lacking balance.
I think of all 4 classes they make the worst stamina dps (pve), healer, and tank.
Sorc obviously excel at magic dps.

SemiD4rkness · January 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Srsly tho', if a class can hit like a truck, but is rendered useless by one caltrops/flare/random aoe splash they are legit balanced.

LOL stupid pve hero. I use caltrops in all my builds and believe me it only counters bad nigtblades (90% of them) Come on one roll dodge and nb is out of it.

LOL stupid entitled non-reader 1337 wannabe pvp'r
But also, if one skill effectively counters 90% of players from one class, i'd say that class really needs a Buff then.

No, they shouldn't buff classes with braindead people like you in mind. I bet you're the typical nb who tries to gank me then fight under my caltrops

myrrrorb14_ESO · January 2016

Nightblade

The obvious choice was bacon. Sadly, not an option.

I don't think they are OP. Maybe a little tweak on the ability to spam abilities, such as cloak and ambush. But then again that's not limited to just NBs.

Almost forgot. #nerfsorcs

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Said it before, and Ill say it again. NBs are the class best-suited to a popular play-style, being an assassin. They were broken for a LONG time because cloak didnt work. Now that it does, people are jumping on the bandwagon because its fun. They are not OP, they just have good synergy among their skills and passives. It is balanced in the sense that everything works well together. That being said, cloak is so easy to counter if you know what you are doing.

Templars are an amazing class, they just are suited for healing which a lot of people have no interest in doing. DKs are incredibly tanky, but tanking has limited uses in PvP. Once I realize I am trying to burst down a tank, I move on. Sorcs have lots of utility, which is why they can be so good in 1vX. They are mobile, have great self heals, burst on command, and a big shield.

I will certainly concede that the other classes could use some tweaks, but NBs should be left alone. The class works as it should.

Stamden · January 2016

As someone who has played 3 classes extensively in PvP, I can honestly say that NB is pretty overpowered and extremely easy.

It's just the amount of work to kill someone is so much less on a NB. You Ambush and spam Surprise Attack. Just doing that kills 90% of people within a few seconds. Worst case-scenario you have to use your unblockable fear or your invis.

In comparison, the amount of work it takes to kill someone on a Magika DK is much greater. You have to adapt to what the enemy does and outplay them. It's definitely playing on hard mode.

RizaHawkeye · January 2016

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They're* not.

/Close thread.

Why though. You have to prove it m8

Actually, he doesn't really have to prove anything as you did nothing more than toss out an assertion and challenge responses. Your post is almost an argumentum ad ignorantiam.

But to answer your post, yes, I do find nightblades to be balanced to my personal satisfaction. That's not to say everyone is satisfied with the balance. That's why we have eighteen gazillion nerf threads on this forum.

BalticBlues · January 2016

Neighbor wrote: »

As someone who has played 3 classes extensively in PvP, I can honestly say that NB is pretty overpowered and extremely easy. [...] You Ambush and spam Surprise Attack. Just doing that kills 90% of people within a few seconds. Worst case-scenario you have to use your unblockable fear or your invis.

This is why NB is god class in PvP.
NBs have the most powerful skill PLUS the most powerful attack.
This is why almost all people play a NB in PvP.

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

PosternHouse · January 2016

Nightblades are, in my mind, the golden standard of class balancing at the moment.

Nightblades have strong magicka and stamina specs which both do a lot of damage, but can also compromise outright damage for sustainability. They have a class-defining skill (cloak) which is very strong, but has several direct counters which are available to all players. There are multiple effective builds for both magicka and stamina for both solo and group contexts.

If I were a skills and abilities designers (*cough* @Wrobel *cough*), I would determine exactly how nightblade is such a strong, balanced class and use that as a philosophical guide to balancing other classes.

Resipsa131 · January 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes and in its place NB should get a magic based damage shield or any damage shield really.

Cloak shouldn't exist for any one, in combat at least. Let's give the class with the highest burst and arsenal of utilities the ability to cloak at will. What could go wrong?
Give them nothing but boundless storm/thundering presence and see what a stam sorc has to deal with. Though a lot of those are now nightblade converts anyway for obvious reasons.

OR we could give Stam Sorcs Cloak and see what happens with the meta

RatedChaotic · January 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They're* not.

/Close thread.

Why though. You have to prove it m8

Sigh:

Most bursty class in the game, stam blades do so much dmg and with vigor + dodgeroll + cloak they have a pretty solid defence.

Stam/Mag class gap closer, doesn't have a min range, mag morph gives 70% snare and snares are strong in this patch, other morth gives empower and a 1s imbolisation on top of the .5s stun all gap closers have.

Concealed/lotus high dmg easiily spammed class skill.

Cloak - dot's are useless vs nb's, your attacks lose target, can reset a fight, best (only) escape skill in game, magblades can inf cloak, stam blades build right can cloak enough with a dodge roll to make it hard to kill them.

15% hp/stam/mag regen

max hp passive

Max magicka passive

crit passive

Also have access to a really good healing skill tree... decent ranged dps/heal, great aoe dmg/heal....

They generate ult stupidly quickly, all their ult's are amazing. Soul harvest is such a cheap good ult, 50, for instant high dmg, 20% more dmg to target and major defile, and regen 10 ult when you kill an enemy...

Permanently have 5200 extra armour from a passive...

idk dude that sounds pretty balanced if you ask me.

Oh yeah it see it now, how could i of missed it, it's so balanced.

But sorc having 20% more hp regen when a pet is on their bar is op .

magicka sorc have no reason to complain. they are the top class in both PvE and PvP while stam NB in PvE is more like the what the magicka dk is in PvP

I agree with that. I hate playing my nb in pve. But that could be because of my pvp build.

Resipsa131 · January 2016

"BalticBlues wrote: »

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

There are counters to cloak, this isn't the thread to detail them but they are available to all classes and play types. More to the point if everyone had access to cloak radiant mage light would almost become standard due to its damage reduction and detection radius. You'd also see players universally slotting things like Caltrops, Ash Cloud, Piercing Mark etc.

RatedChaotic · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

"BalticBlues wrote: »

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

There are counters to cloak, this isn't the thread to detail them but they are available to all classes and play types. More to the point if everyone had access to cloak radiant mage light would almost become standard due to its damage reduction and detection radius. You'd also see players universally slotting things like Caltrops, Ash Cloud, Piercing Mark etc.

A guildie came up with this build and gear setup. Perma cloak will not work on our group. We easily see stealthed targets at 20m plus. So funny when they realize they cant hide anymore.

Tryxus · January 2016

BalticBlues wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

As someone who has played 3 classes extensively in PvP, I can honestly say that NB is pretty overpowered and extremely easy. [...] You Ambush and spam Surprise Attack. Just doing that kills 90% of people within a few seconds. Worst case-scenario you have to use your unblockable fear or your invis.

This is why NB is god class in PvP.
NBs have the most powerful skill PLUS the most powerful attack.
This is why almost all people play a NB in PvP.

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

NB cannot "Perma Cloak", not even MagBlades

And no class is "god" in Cyro. Git gud boi

Resipsa131 · January 2016

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

"BalticBlues wrote: »

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

There are counters to cloak, this isn't the thread to detail them but they are available to all classes and play types. More to the point if everyone had access to cloak radiant mage light would almost become standard due to its damage reduction and detection radius. You'd also see players universally slotting things like Caltrops, Ash Cloud, Piercing Mark etc.

A guildie came up with this build and gear setup. Perma cloak will not work on our group. We easily see stealthed targets at 20m plus.

That's precisely the point,every group would do it if everyone had access to cloak.

Alucardo · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

OR we could give Stam Sorcs Cloak and see what happens with the meta

I think I'd rather surprise attack so I don't get so much hate whispers about me running around spamming wrecking blow. Plus it's just an awesome ability.

RatedChaotic · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

"BalticBlues wrote: »

Interesting suggestion.
However, perma cloak is god mode in PvP.
IMHO perma cloak should not be available at all.

- DKs cannot perma block
- Sorcs cannot perma streak
- Templars cannot perma heal
- NBs can perma cloak

This is why NB currently is the most unbalanced class.

There are counters to cloak, this isn't the thread to detail them but they are available to all classes and play types. More to the point if everyone had access to cloak radiant mage light would almost become standard due to its damage reduction and detection radius. You'd also see players universally slotting things like Caltrops, Ash Cloud, Piercing Mark etc.

A guildie came up with this build and gear setup. Perma cloak will not work on our group. We easily see stealthed targets at 20m plus.

That's precisely the point,every group would do it if everyone had access to cloak.

Ya I was agreeing with you. Its counterable. Hes a magicka nb hunter killer with that setup and from what I have seen it works really good. Being able to see a nb in his stealth before he can see you in stealth is a big plus. Since cyro has tons of nbs we have so much fun using that setup.

Anzriel · January 2016

Nightblade

I would say a more accurate statement would be that nightblade is the most well-rounded class with the least useless crap. Most other classes have glaring weakness and skills/passives that either make little use, or have poor synergy. Compared to the other classes nightblade has more going for it than any other in pvp, and is pretty useful in pve as well. The only class that has as much going for it as nightblade is sorcerer.

srfrogg23 · January 2016

Hehe, this is funny that there are people saying NB is OP. I remember the days when everyone cried "NB are too underpowered, buff them!"

It's funny how times change. I actually remember being kicked from a dungeon group as soon as I was invited because the group leader saw I was a NB dps when I accepted the invite, lol.

So weird how this whole dynamic has changed since release.

Shunravi · January 2016

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Hehe, this is funny that there are people saying NB is OP. I remember the days when everyone cried "NB are too underpowered, buff them!"

It's funny how times change. I actually remember being kicked from a dungeon group as soon as I was invited because the group leader saw I was a NB dps when I accepted the invite, lol.

So weird how this whole dynamic has changed since release.

My favorite was when I heard of some endgame guilds both pvp and pve were encouraging people to either reroll nb or get someone they know who was nb to run with them because the survival rate of nightblades actually getting to endgame was so poor. Course, even then it was to fill a specific capacity....

SnuggleMePlease · January 2016

Nightblade

This basically exemplifies the playstyle of every Khajiit NB... ever.

https://youtu.be/1XaHwmYeIUI

Cheers,
Snuggle

BigTone · January 2016

Nightblade

Artjuh90 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They're* not.

/Close thread.

Why though. You have to prove it m8

Sigh:

Most bursty class in the game, stam blades do so much dmg and with vigor + dodgeroll + cloak they have a pretty solid defence.

Stam/Mag class gap closer, doesn't have a min range, mag morph gives 70% snare and snares are strong in this patch, other morth gives empower and a 1s imbolisation on top of the .5s stun all gap closers have.

Concealed/lotus high dmg easiily spammed class skill.

Cloak - dot's are useless vs nb's, your attacks lose target, can reset a fight, best (only) escape skill in game, magblades can inf cloak, stam blades build right can cloak enough with a dodge roll to make it hard to kill them.

15% hp/stam/mag regen

max hp passive

Max magicka passive

crit passive

Also have access to a really good healing skill tree... decent ranged dps/heal, great aoe dmg/heal....

They generate ult stupidly quickly, all their ult's are amazing. Soul harvest is such a cheap good ult, 50, for instant high dmg, 20% more dmg to target and major defile, and regen 10 ult when you kill an enemy...

Permanently have 5200 extra armour from a passive...

idk dude that sounds pretty balanced if you ask me.

Oh yeah it see it now, how could i of missed it, it's so balanced.

But sorc having 20% more hp regen when a pet is on their bar is op .

magicka sorc have no reason to complain. they are the top class in both PvE and PvP while stam NB in PvE is more like the what the magicka dk is in PvP

You have no idea what your talking about. Stamblade is very strong in PVE and sorcs rely on force pulse as their main dps move. It is not even close.

Magicka NBs are king of 1v1 duels right now, and very strong in group play as well. They are also the only class with an effective escape skill in pvp. I have to say I agree with @PosternHouse in that NBs are the epitome of balance right now and should not be nerfed, but other classes should be more balanced.

Tryxus · January 2016

BigTone wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shelgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

They're* not.

/Close thread.

Why though. You have to prove it m8

Sigh:

Most bursty class in the game, stam blades do so much dmg and with vigor + dodgeroll + cloak they have a pretty solid defence.

Stam/Mag class gap closer, doesn't have a min range, mag morph gives 70% snare and snares are strong in this patch, other morth gives empower and a 1s imbolisation on top of the .5s stun all gap closers have.

Concealed/lotus high dmg easiily spammed class skill.

Cloak - dot's are useless vs nb's, your attacks lose target, can reset a fight, best (only) escape skill in game, magblades can inf cloak, stam blades build right can cloak enough with a dodge roll to make it hard to kill them.

15% hp/stam/mag regen

max hp passive

Max magicka passive

crit passive

Also have access to a really good healing skill tree... decent ranged dps/heal, great aoe dmg/heal....

They generate ult stupidly quickly, all their ult's are amazing. Soul harvest is such a cheap good ult, 50, for instant high dmg, 20% more dmg to target and major defile, and regen 10 ult when you kill an enemy...

Permanently have 5200 extra armour from a passive...

idk dude that sounds pretty balanced if you ask me.

Oh yeah it see it now, how could i of missed it, it's so balanced.

But sorc having 20% more hp regen when a pet is on their bar is op .

magicka sorc have no reason to complain. they are the top class in both PvE and PvP while stam NB in PvE is more like the what the magicka dk is in PvP

You have no idea what your talking about. Stamblade is very strong in PVE and sorcs rely on force pulse as their main dps move. It is not even close.

Magicka NBs are king of 1v1 duels right now, and very strong in group play as well. They are also the only class with an effective escape skill in pvp. I have to say I agree with @PosternHouse in that NBs are the epitome of balance right now and should not be nerfed, but other classes should be more balanced.

Actually he's right: I had a much easier time doing PvE with my Sorc than with my DK or NB. I managed to solo many Craglorn bosses (Lost One, Tarish-Zi, Exalted Viper, Orc with Titus' Sword,...) with my Sorc that I couldn't do with my NB, both Stam and Mag.

IMO, easiest for PvE:
1. Mag Sorc
2. Stam DK
3. MagBlade
4. StamBlade

As for 1v1, I think Stam DK has a definite advantage over the NB, especially since many NB go Vamp for the Sneak Bonus. NB are good at getting a headstart with Sneak Attacks etc, but in a regular 1 on 1 a DK has better resource management against both types of NB.

All in all, I still think the only reason the NB is "balanced" is cuz we can run both viable Magicka and Stamina builds while we do our job: assassination.

And I agree with you on the other classes getting buffed to that same balance as the NB: DK and Temp need urgent buffing and muchos love from ZOS

Oliumzen · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes and in its place NB should get a magic based damage shield or any damage shield really.

annulment.

MrGigglypants · January 2016

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Cloak should be an Assault Skill available to all classes and in its place NB should get a magic based damage shield or any damage shield really.

Terrible idea. Might as well handout bolt hardened ward gdb bol and anything else worth a damn.

MrGigglypants · January 2016

TiberX wrote: »

Too bad u cannot get a ban for such a topic

You can see how balanced NBs are when u see that 50% in PVP are NBs.
Stun-Damage-Fear-Damage-If gets tough disappear and Repeat. and BTW, best class passives

Wtf are you talking about lol. Slot mage light no stun fear break free heal up fight cloak aoe fight more slot a counter and stop whining. Best class passives? Never played sorc huh? 15% reduction in ult cost % weapon dmg per sorc skill slotted? Dragon knight ult for 30% of all resources return templars have a mesh of all 3? Get out of here with that nonsense