Vigor is Cheap- Bolt escape vs other gap closers.- Anti Cheat Tactics.

Master_Kas · January 2016

spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

I stopped when I read this. Good luck! xD

laksikus · January 2016

lol, use vigpr yourself if you get full heal after 1 use^^

and no im not playing stam nb, or even use vigor in pvp
shieldstacking is the most OP thing ingame, if you are a sorc and complain about nb then youa re a real noob^^

Essiaga · January 2016

Bolt Escape is not a gap closer. its an escape. Its used to move you from a place of potential danger to a place of potentially less danger. It doesn't require a target, it's an AOE stun that does damage and can execute.

Escape also doesn't mean "get away." It means "get free" from. You can escape a head-lock and still be with in striking distance. There is a reason why the spell was designed with the range it has and why it's cost increases when spammed. It was not intended to be spammed and therefore was made to discourage spamming. As far as gap closers, only Ambush can be spammed as it requires no distance. If you create a gap it should be able to be closed. Ambush should require a distance do to the mini-stun that all gap closers have and NB abusing or misusing the lack of distance required. There is a change coming for gap closers to help with the issue. Well see when PTS goes live if it actually works.

I'm not a fan of Vigor either. Stam heals are a stupid concept, especially when the Templar has no stam heal option but a full tree dedicated to healing. Stam is used for things u do with your body. Swing a weapon, dodge, block ... they cost stam cause they would fatigue you. Healing comes from magicka or potions. Rally doesn't make sense either. Did 2 handed weapon really need a heal to go with the gap closers, execute, and crazy powerful DD, double CC? 2 hander has more to offer then most classes.

Every class has some heals, some mitigation and some damage. If they balance the game right we wouldn't need these non-class skill that are just another variable to be worked in. I get that they are supposed to create the opportunity for unique builds but that's not happening. Removal of hard/soft caps and CP have killed unique builds. Hybrids are all but dead and they were they special snowflakes. We're all using the same 13 skills and 3 gear sets and calling them "our" builds. They are all so similar they're not much point to calling "our" builds.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

The last thing we need is another nerf to defense and healing which is where this thread is going. use a defile move like most good players do and boom not full health or zero resources trying. I am sick of people wanting this game to be a "be a DPS or eat ***" type of game it is already dangerously close.

acw37162 · January 2016

So much bad information here.

Vigor is the only stamina heal available outside of the 2 H tree. It is a HOT and does not "take you to full health"

Bolt escape is ridiculously good, like game breaking good, with 40 K plus magica pools you can still bolt escape 5 times before you run into regen issues.

The only issue with gap closers is the side CC root especially is you get multiple night blades hitting you wth ambush or effin lotus fan.

Sorcs shield staking is beyond good, they are crit resistant so you can't trait your gear however you want and can 15 K health with effective health of in the neighborhood of 40 K is you stack right.

I'm not feeling sorry for magica sorcs you can tank better then tank classes, have all the mobility in the world, and can dish out ridiculous damage. No sympathy here

maxjapank · January 2016

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

LegendsNeverDie · January 2016

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Did you even try to read the tool tip of the skill before making the post?

silky_soft · January 2016

"ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc"

"because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc"

"i am magicka sorc"

Ahahahahahhh

willymchilybily · January 2016

I was agreeing with op till he said vigor full health and running impenetrable on sorc......you know shields can't be crit right you just made some duff gear for a sorc? To over come your failing to re apply shield,

gap closer is a little too powerful imo, ps if its one guy prison and streak. And or lightening form, because break free is still expensive for stam users. If it's multiple guys on you its death unless you can line of sight or cloak.

lolo_01b16_ESO · January 2016

Vigor heals for about the same amout per second as one cast of healing springs with similar stamina / magicka and costs about the same (considering you get back ressources when you heal someone). So if you think vigor is too cheap, you also need to increase the costs of healing springs.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

Axorn wrote: »

ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc without any stam reduce cost effect for me its only 3k stamina and noob NBs just spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

Bolt escape is very expensive especially when spammed and its range only few meters compared to other gap closers like teleport strike or critical charge vs. and every other class uses those gap closers and they just spamm behind you non stop cuz their cost very cheap and their range is more than 25 meters. Also their damage is way higher than Streak damage.

I ask you ZOS whats the point of having bolt escape since useless for escaping especially noob spammer NBs just jumping on you from all directions non stop ? just increase their cost like bolt escape or reduce their range under the bolt escape's range. Or increase streak damage and make it equal to critical charge or teleport strike.

And for who having trouble againts CHEAT like stamina builds like noob NBs or WBers here some tips ;

Use 2 heavy armor pieces (one chest and pick one of these helm,legs,shoulder) craft every gear with impenetrable trait and invest 100 points to RESISTANT star in the steed constallation. Use Radiant Magelight from mages guild. And you will see those noobs couldnt hurt you any more. I crafted full legendary v16 gear with divines and it performs poorly then i crafted full epic v15 full impenetrable result was awsome just try it. I was getting 10-12k hits from cyrstal fragments, ambush and surprise attack now with full impenetrable and wit full resistant star i get 2-3k max 6k from crystal fragments very rarely good luck.

Sweet Nightmother where to start 4.2k weapon damage maxed out both Heals taken and healing done Argonian (9% heals taken) my Vigor crits for 2.5k Spamming Vigor is only okay to share with a friend resetting the HoT timer does nothing but waste Stamina.

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

I fought Templar that spam Clease Mark even after I stop marking them.
Dragon Knight Root spamming long after I stop roll dodging.
Nightblades hitting with Ambush as I melt face with Suprise Attack.
And Sorcerers that spammed Overload as I One Hand and Shield reflect them. Spamming happens. Those of us with sense use three buffs/heals and two attacks you have to spam one on them cause the others a DoT and why spam DoTs

Xjcon wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Because that's now how Vigor works. It's a HoT, so you don't get all your health in one go. You can't spam it to go heals unlike other skills, compared to (say) Rally. Rally is a great skill to spam heals in the midst of combat, and does wonders. Not to mention Rally gives you a 20% boost to damage.

Vigor is good, but it's not the end-all, be-all, especially after the 50% reduction.

Truth
Vigor, Dodge roll, Dodge roll. FULL HEALTH.

I don't think you know how HoTs work

Axorn wrote: »

For magicka builds, break free very expensive ,roll dodge very expensive ,heals are reduced ,no working escape mechanics,no decent protection from light armor, low spell power with staves , expensive abilties...

This game's pvp soooo unbalanced.

Yea it's like way can't they add something in the Champion System to reduce the cost of Rolling and Breaking free oh wait.

maxjapank wrote: »

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

Kammakazi · January 2016

Essiaga wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not a gap closer. its an escape. Its used to move you from a place of potential danger to a place of potentially less danger. It doesn't require a target, it's an AOE stun that does damage and can execute.

Escape also doesn't mean "get away." It means "get free" from. You can escape a head-lock and still be with in striking distance. There is a reason why the spell was designed with the range it has and why it's cost increases when spammed. It was not intended to be spammed and therefore was made to discourage spamming. As far as gap closers, only Ambush can be spammed as it requires no distance. If you create a gap it should be able to be closed. Ambush should require a distance do to the mini-stun that all gap closers have and NB abusing or misusing the lack of distance required. There is a change coming for gap closers to help with the issue. Well see when PTS goes live if it actually works.

I'm not a fan of Vigor either. Stam heals are a stupid concept, especially when the Templar has no stam heal option but a full tree dedicated to healing. Stam is used for things u do with your body. Swing a weapon, dodge, block ... they cost stam cause they would fatigue you. Healing comes from magicka or potions. Rally doesn't make sense either. Did 2 handed weapon really need a heal to go with the gap closers, execute, and crazy powerful DD, double CC? 2 hander has more to offer then most classes.

Every class has some heals, some mitigation and some damage. If they balance the game right we wouldn't need these non-class skill that are just another variable to be worked in. I get that they are supposed to create the opportunity for unique builds but that's not happening. Removal of hard/soft caps and CP have killed unique builds. Hybrids are all but dead and they were they special snowflakes. We're all using the same 13 skills and 3 gear sets and calling them "our" builds. They are all so similar they're not much point to calling "our" builds.

It is a gap closer what are you talking about...

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

Kammakazi wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not a gap closer. its an escape. Its used to move you from a place of potential danger to a place of potentially less danger. It doesn't require a target, it's an AOE stun that does damage and can execute.

Escape also doesn't mean "get away." It means "get free" from. You can escape a head-lock and still be with in striking distance. There is a reason why the spell was designed with the range it has and why it's cost increases when spammed. It was not intended to be spammed and therefore was made to discourage spamming. As far as gap closers, only Ambush can be spammed as it requires no distance. If you create a gap it should be able to be closed. Ambush should require a distance do to the mini-stun that all gap closers have and NB abusing or misusing the lack of distance required. There is a change coming for gap closers to help with the issue. Well see when PTS goes live if it actually works.

I'm not a fan of Vigor either. Stam heals are a stupid concept, especially when the Templar has no stam heal option but a full tree dedicated to healing. Stam is used for things u do with your body. Swing a weapon, dodge, block ... they cost stam cause they would fatigue you. Healing comes from magicka or potions. Rally doesn't make sense either. Did 2 handed weapon really need a heal to go with the gap closers, execute, and crazy powerful DD, double CC? 2 hander has more to offer then most classes.

Every class has some heals, some mitigation and some damage. If they balance the game right we wouldn't need these non-class skill that are just another variable to be worked in. I get that they are supposed to create the opportunity for unique builds but that's not happening. Removal of hard/soft caps and CP have killed unique builds. Hybrids are all but dead and they were they special snowflakes. We're all using the same 13 skills and 3 gear sets and calling them "our" builds. They are all so similar they're not much point to calling "our" builds.

It is a gap closer what are you talking about...

Gap closers need a target and can only put you in Melee range Bolt needs no target making it a gap maker.

Xjcon · January 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc without any stam reduce cost effect for me its only 3k stamina and noob NBs just spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

Bolt escape is very expensive especially when spammed and its range only few meters compared to other gap closers like teleport strike or critical charge vs. and every other class uses those gap closers and they just spamm behind you non stop cuz their cost very cheap and their range is more than 25 meters. Also their damage is way higher than Streak damage.

I ask you ZOS whats the point of having bolt escape since useless for escaping especially noob spammer NBs just jumping on you from all directions non stop ? just increase their cost like bolt escape or reduce their range under the bolt escape's range. Or increase streak damage and make it equal to critical charge or teleport strike.

And for who having trouble againts CHEAT like stamina builds like noob NBs or WBers here some tips ;

Use 2 heavy armor pieces (one chest and pick one of these helm,legs,shoulder) craft every gear with impenetrable trait and invest 100 points to RESISTANT star in the steed constallation. Use Radiant Magelight from mages guild. And you will see those noobs couldnt hurt you any more. I crafted full legendary v16 gear with divines and it performs poorly then i crafted full epic v15 full impenetrable result was awsome just try it. I was getting 10-12k hits from cyrstal fragments, ambush and surprise attack now with full impenetrable and wit full resistant star i get 2-3k max 6k from crystal fragments very rarely good luck.

Sweet Nightmother where to start 4.2k weapon damage maxed out both Heals taken and healing done Argonian (9% heals taken) my Vigor crits for 2.5k Spamming Vigor is only okay to share with a friend resetting the HoT timer does nothing but waste Stamina.

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

I fought Templar that spam Clease Mark even after I stop marking them.
Dragon Knight Root spamming long after I stop roll dodging.
Nightblades hitting with Ambush as I melt face with Suprise Attack.
And Sorcerers that spammed Overload as I One Hand and Shield reflect them. Spamming happens. Those of us with sense use three buffs/heals and two attacks you have to spam one on them cause the others a DoT and why spam DoTs

Xjcon wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Because that's now how Vigor works. It's a HoT, so you don't get all your health in one go. You can't spam it to go heals unlike other skills, compared to (say) Rally. Rally is a great skill to spam heals in the midst of combat, and does wonders. Not to mention Rally gives you a 20% boost to damage.

Vigor is good, but it's not the end-all, be-all, especially after the 50% reduction.

Truth
Vigor, Dodge roll, Dodge roll. FULL HEALTH.

I don't think you know how HoTs work

Axorn wrote: »

For magicka builds, break free very expensive ,roll dodge very expensive ,heals are reduced ,no working escape mechanics,no decent protection from light armor, low spell power with staves , expensive abilties...

This game's pvp soooo unbalanced.

Yea it's like way can't they add something in the Champion System to reduce the cost of Rolling and Breaking free oh wait.

maxjapank wrote: »

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I know exactly how it works. I've got my ass handed to me over and over to players I couldn't finish simply because they could cast vigor dodge roll a few times hit rally and be topped off. That whole time I'm trying to kill them i'm using resources too.

It's all part of what brought stamina to the best choice for pvp aside for magicka sorc.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc without any stam reduce cost effect for me its only 3k stamina and noob NBs just spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

Bolt escape is very expensive especially when spammed and its range only few meters compared to other gap closers like teleport strike or critical charge vs. and every other class uses those gap closers and they just spamm behind you non stop cuz their cost very cheap and their range is more than 25 meters. Also their damage is way higher than Streak damage.

I ask you ZOS whats the point of having bolt escape since useless for escaping especially noob spammer NBs just jumping on you from all directions non stop ? just increase their cost like bolt escape or reduce their range under the bolt escape's range. Or increase streak damage and make it equal to critical charge or teleport strike.

And for who having trouble againts CHEAT like stamina builds like noob NBs or WBers here some tips ;

Use 2 heavy armor pieces (one chest and pick one of these helm,legs,shoulder) craft every gear with impenetrable trait and invest 100 points to RESISTANT star in the steed constallation. Use Radiant Magelight from mages guild. And you will see those noobs couldnt hurt you any more. I crafted full legendary v16 gear with divines and it performs poorly then i crafted full epic v15 full impenetrable result was awsome just try it. I was getting 10-12k hits from cyrstal fragments, ambush and surprise attack now with full impenetrable and wit full resistant star i get 2-3k max 6k from crystal fragments very rarely good luck.

Sweet Nightmother where to start 4.2k weapon damage maxed out both Heals taken and healing done Argonian (9% heals taken) my Vigor crits for 2.5k Spamming Vigor is only okay to share with a friend resetting the HoT timer does nothing but waste Stamina.

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

I fought Templar that spam Clease Mark even after I stop marking them.
Dragon Knight Root spamming long after I stop roll dodging.
Nightblades hitting with Ambush as I melt face with Suprise Attack.
And Sorcerers that spammed Overload as I One Hand and Shield reflect them. Spamming happens. Those of us with sense use three buffs/heals and two attacks you have to spam one on them cause the others a DoT and why spam DoTs

Xjcon wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Because that's now how Vigor works. It's a HoT, so you don't get all your health in one go. You can't spam it to go heals unlike other skills, compared to (say) Rally. Rally is a great skill to spam heals in the midst of combat, and does wonders. Not to mention Rally gives you a 20% boost to damage.

Vigor is good, but it's not the end-all, be-all, especially after the 50% reduction.

Truth
Vigor, Dodge roll, Dodge roll. FULL HEALTH.

I don't think you know how HoTs work

Axorn wrote: »

For magicka builds, break free very expensive ,roll dodge very expensive ,heals are reduced ,no working escape mechanics,no decent protection from light armor, low spell power with staves , expensive abilties...

This game's pvp soooo unbalanced.

Yea it's like way can't they add something in the Champion System to reduce the cost of Rolling and Breaking free oh wait.

maxjapank wrote: »

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I know exactly how it works. I've got my ass handed to me over and over to players I couldn't finish simply because they could cast vigor dodge roll a few times hit rally and be topped off. That whole time I'm trying to kill them i'm using resources too.

It's all part of what brought stamina to the best choice for pvp aside for magicka sorc.

Have you tried NOT attacking rolling targets they roll 2-3 times in a row anyways let them burn stamina as you recover

acw37162 · January 2016

Xjcon wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc without any stam reduce cost effect for me its only 3k stamina and noob NBs just spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

Bolt escape is very expensive especially when spammed and its range only few meters compared to other gap closers like teleport strike or critical charge vs. and every other class uses those gap closers and they just spamm behind you non stop cuz their cost very cheap and their range is more than 25 meters. Also their damage is way higher than Streak damage.

I ask you ZOS whats the point of having bolt escape since useless for escaping especially noob spammer NBs just jumping on you from all directions non stop ? just increase their cost like bolt escape or reduce their range under the bolt escape's range. Or increase streak damage and make it equal to critical charge or teleport strike.

And for who having trouble againts CHEAT like stamina builds like noob NBs or WBers here some tips ;

Use 2 heavy armor pieces (one chest and pick one of these helm,legs,shoulder) craft every gear with impenetrable trait and invest 100 points to RESISTANT star in the steed constallation. Use Radiant Magelight from mages guild. And you will see those noobs couldnt hurt you any more. I crafted full legendary v16 gear with divines and it performs poorly then i crafted full epic v15 full impenetrable result was awsome just try it. I was getting 10-12k hits from cyrstal fragments, ambush and surprise attack now with full impenetrable and wit full resistant star i get 2-3k max 6k from crystal fragments very rarely good luck.

Sweet Nightmother where to start 4.2k weapon damage maxed out both Heals taken and healing done Argonian (9% heals taken) my Vigor crits for 2.5k Spamming Vigor is only okay to share with a friend resetting the HoT timer does nothing but waste Stamina.

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

I fought Templar that spam Clease Mark even after I stop marking them.
Dragon Knight Root spamming long after I stop roll dodging.
Nightblades hitting with Ambush as I melt face with Suprise Attack.
And Sorcerers that spammed Overload as I One Hand and Shield reflect them. Spamming happens. Those of us with sense use three buffs/heals and two attacks you have to spam one on them cause the others a DoT and why spam DoTs

Xjcon wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Because that's now how Vigor works. It's a HoT, so you don't get all your health in one go. You can't spam it to go heals unlike other skills, compared to (say) Rally. Rally is a great skill to spam heals in the midst of combat, and does wonders. Not to mention Rally gives you a 20% boost to damage.

Vigor is good, but it's not the end-all, be-all, especially after the 50% reduction.

Truth
Vigor, Dodge roll, Dodge roll. FULL HEALTH.

I don't think you know how HoTs work

Axorn wrote: »

For magicka builds, break free very expensive ,roll dodge very expensive ,heals are reduced ,no working escape mechanics,no decent protection from light armor, low spell power with staves , expensive abilties...

This game's pvp soooo unbalanced.

Yea it's like way can't they add something in the Champion System to reduce the cost of Rolling and Breaking free oh wait.

maxjapank wrote: »

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I know exactly how it works. I've got my ass handed to me over and over to players I couldn't finish simply because they could cast vigor dodge roll a few times hit rally and be topped off. That whole time I'm trying to kill them i'm using resources too.

It's all part of what brought stamina to the best choice for pvp aside for magicka sorc.

You stack three shields.

Can camp your mines.

Can streak away, plus streak wil hard stun though dodge, plus a morph will eat projectiles being thrown at you.

Can run an effective health pool of around 40K with 15K actual health.

You can't be critically hit unless you mess up your shield rotation.

And your irritated at Vigor and its cost and a dodge roll?

If you think it's so damn cheap and a "I win" button slot it on your bar and use it yourself. You said it yourself it's so good and so cheap.

If you think vigor irritates you I can't wait to read your reviews of a nightblade using vigor with shield breaker.

Sorc's are literally at the top of the PVP food chain, Vigor is not a problem if there is a problem with vigor it's that there are not enough stamina based heals in the game

MrDerrikk · January 2016

Wow, I haven't seen a troll thread this bad in a while. Reminds me of that found guys posts...

I disagree completely with the OP, and the only char I take to PvP is my Magicka DK. L2P.

maxjapank · January 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I guess based on the defensive answer that you then...can...use Vigor while stealthed or while using Dark Cloak. And that is a problem as it's the only heal that won't break you out of stealth. I asked because I saw a NB do this. He used dark cloak then spammed Vigor till he was full health. I was surprised when I saw it. Now I know that Magicka NBs can also do this by equipping a Resto staff...shield...dark cloak a couple of times...and come back full health. But..they do have to devote a weapon slot for this. So there is a trade off of sorts. But Vigor just seems unbalanced.

Kammakazi · January 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

Bolt Escape is not a gap closer. its an escape. Its used to move you from a place of potential danger to a place of potentially less danger. It doesn't require a target, it's an AOE stun that does damage and can execute.

Escape also doesn't mean "get away." It means "get free" from. You can escape a head-lock and still be with in striking distance. There is a reason why the spell was designed with the range it has and why it's cost increases when spammed. It was not intended to be spammed and therefore was made to discourage spamming. As far as gap closers, only Ambush can be spammed as it requires no distance. If you create a gap it should be able to be closed. Ambush should require a distance do to the mini-stun that all gap closers have and NB abusing or misusing the lack of distance required. There is a change coming for gap closers to help with the issue. Well see when PTS goes live if it actually works.

I'm not a fan of Vigor either. Stam heals are a stupid concept, especially when the Templar has no stam heal option but a full tree dedicated to healing. Stam is used for things u do with your body. Swing a weapon, dodge, block ... they cost stam cause they would fatigue you. Healing comes from magicka or potions. Rally doesn't make sense either. Did 2 handed weapon really need a heal to go with the gap closers, execute, and crazy powerful DD, double CC? 2 hander has more to offer then most classes.

Every class has some heals, some mitigation and some damage. If they balance the game right we wouldn't need these non-class skill that are just another variable to be worked in. I get that they are supposed to create the opportunity for unique builds but that's not happening. Removal of hard/soft caps and CP have killed unique builds. Hybrids are all but dead and they were they special snowflakes. We're all using the same 13 skills and 3 gear sets and calling them "our" builds. They are all so similar they're not much point to calling "our" builds.

It is a gap closer what are you talking about...

Gap closers need a target and can only put you in Melee range Bolt needs no target making it a gap maker.

The term gap closer in the universe of all gaming means to move/jump/dash/teleport from point A to point B.

It doesn't matter if it requires a target or not, if it moves you from point A to point B, then it is a gap closer.

MrDerrikk · January 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I guess based on the defensive answer that you then...can...use Vigor while stealthed or while using Dark Cloak. And that is a problem as it's the only heal that won't break you out of stealth. I asked because I saw a NB do this. He used dark cloak then spammed Vigor till he was full health. I was surprised when I saw it. Now I know that Magicka NBs can also do this by equipping a Resto staff...shield...dark cloak a couple of times...and come back full health. But..they do have to devote a weapon slot for this. So there is a trade off of sorts. But Vigor just seems unbalanced.

But Stam NB's can only cloak a couple of times, as they don't have piles of magicka. It's a balancing thing.

maxjapank · January 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I guess based on the defensive answer that you then...can...use Vigor while stealthed or while using Dark Cloak. And that is a problem as it's the only heal that won't break you out of stealth. I asked because I saw a NB do this. He used dark cloak then spammed Vigor till he was full health. I was surprised when I saw it. Now I know that Magicka NBs can also do this by equipping a Resto staff...shield...dark cloak a couple of times...and come back full health. But..they do have to devote a weapon slot for this. So there is a trade off of sorts. But Vigor just seems unbalanced.

But Stam NB's can only cloak a couple of times, as they don't have piles of magicka. It's a balancing thing.

Balance is made from wearing Medium armor vs. Light which gives you greater damage mitigation. Stam-based builds are already benefitting from higher weapon dmg as compared to spell dmg.

Van_0S · January 2016

@Axorn
OP its not vigor but vigor+rally that gives good heal.

Vigor is useless. It heals minimum at that instant when you need a good heal that badly but once you escape from battle *cough* cloak *cloak* then vigor is usefull but again not that efficient compared to rally.

This is what NB does, before the battle they use vigor then ambush+surprise attack then cloak+rally(when they fail to kill the enemy in less than 1sec) then repeat it again.

DurzoBlint13 · January 2016

Gonza wrote: »

Have you ever played with a stamina build? You should try before asking for nerfs.
Dont wait a month for your request, leave now please

Good luck!

This! Play a stam based toon before you call for nerfs. Any class that can spam a 30K damage shield anytime they get low on health has no room to talk about someone using Vigor.

f4naticb16_ESO · January 2016

@Axorn L2P

Cinnamon_Spider · January 2016

They don't need to increase the cost if vigor, but the cost of bolt escape should be reduced. It's pretty bad when a sorc can't close the gap against a stamina build that is sprinting away from them. Every change they make just goes too far,

daswahnsinn · January 2016

The QQ'ing and nerf threads need to stop. This is not the community I remember in beta nor six months ago. When threads like this keep popping up something gets nerfed or stealth nerfed in the dirt. Threads like this is why I don't log in as much anymore, I don't wanna play with %#%^$#.

Jaronking · January 2016

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

They don't need to increase the cost if vigor, but the cost of bolt escape should be reduced. It's pretty bad when a sorc can't close the gap against a stamina build that is sprinting away from them. Every change they make just goes too far,

No they shouldn't reduce the cost of Bolt Escape its not a Gap Closer,It's a escape abilities.I . I would think it's pretty obvious when the name of the ability is Bolt Escape you should escape with it.The ability isn't called Bolt get closer.So when you use it to Gap close on a stam build your not using the ability as intended.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I guess based on the defensive answer that you then...can...use Vigor while stealthed or while using Dark Cloak. And that is a problem as it's the only heal that won't break you out of stealth. I asked because I saw a NB do this. He used dark cloak then spammed Vigor till he was full health. I was surprised when I saw it. Now I know that Magicka NBs can also do this by equipping a Resto staff...shield...dark cloak a couple of times...and come back full health. But..they do have to devote a weapon slot for this. So there is a trade off of sorts. But Vigor just seems unbalanced.

Been a Stamina Nightblade since year one beta back when Nightblades and all Stamina sucked Alien Balls

Vigor is a Six seconds HoT that gives no other bonuses as a HoT spamming only resets the timer wasting stamina if I hit Vigor before the heal is done it's to heal someone else.

As to the heal from stealth it's a AoE that comes off of you Healing Springscsn be cast at a distance stealth Springs on a Group is OP. Rapid 20 seconds HoT, Wards long ranged Shields you can have restro heals keep you in stealth. All that sad I wouldn't care if vigor broke stealth no need to once you can stealth or before a fight and Nightblades can still cast and cloak like I do I my MageBlade.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

Xjcon wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

ZOS you need to increase Vigor's stamina cost because its very cheap, i am magicka sorc without any stam reduce cost effect for me its only 3k stamina and noob NBs just spam that and get full health even first thick is enough to get full health when spammed.

Bolt escape is very expensive especially when spammed and its range only few meters compared to other gap closers like teleport strike or critical charge vs. and every other class uses those gap closers and they just spamm behind you non stop cuz their cost very cheap and their range is more than 25 meters. Also their damage is way higher than Streak damage.

I ask you ZOS whats the point of having bolt escape since useless for escaping especially noob spammer NBs just jumping on you from all directions non stop ? just increase their cost like bolt escape or reduce their range under the bolt escape's range. Or increase streak damage and make it equal to critical charge or teleport strike.

And for who having trouble againts CHEAT like stamina builds like noob NBs or WBers here some tips ;

Use 2 heavy armor pieces (one chest and pick one of these helm,legs,shoulder) craft every gear with impenetrable trait and invest 100 points to RESISTANT star in the steed constallation. Use Radiant Magelight from mages guild. And you will see those noobs couldnt hurt you any more. I crafted full legendary v16 gear with divines and it performs poorly then i crafted full epic v15 full impenetrable result was awsome just try it. I was getting 10-12k hits from cyrstal fragments, ambush and surprise attack now with full impenetrable and wit full resistant star i get 2-3k max 6k from crystal fragments very rarely good luck.

Sweet Nightmother where to start 4.2k weapon damage maxed out both Heals taken and healing done Argonian (9% heals taken) my Vigor crits for 2.5k Spamming Vigor is only okay to share with a friend resetting the HoT timer does nothing but waste Stamina.

Axorn wrote: »

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I think you need to do some research on vigor before you attempt to make a thread like this.

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

I fought Templar that spam Clease Mark even after I stop marking them.
Dragon Knight Root spamming long after I stop roll dodging.
Nightblades hitting with Ambush as I melt face with Suprise Attack.
And Sorcerers that spammed Overload as I One Hand and Shield reflect them. Spamming happens. Those of us with sense use three buffs/heals and two attacks you have to spam one on them cause the others a DoT and why spam DoTs

Xjcon wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

why ? i saw many times people just spamming vigor and get full health noone waits for the hot

Because that's now how Vigor works. It's a HoT, so you don't get all your health in one go. You can't spam it to go heals unlike other skills, compared to (say) Rally. Rally is a great skill to spam heals in the midst of combat, and does wonders. Not to mention Rally gives you a 20% boost to damage.

Vigor is good, but it's not the end-all, be-all, especially after the 50% reduction.

Truth
Vigor, Dodge roll, Dodge roll. FULL HEALTH.

I don't think you know how HoTs work

Axorn wrote: »

For magicka builds, break free very expensive ,roll dodge very expensive ,heals are reduced ,no working escape mechanics,no decent protection from light armor, low spell power with staves , expensive abilties...

This game's pvp soooo unbalanced.

Yea it's like way can't they add something in the Champion System to reduce the cost of Rolling and Breaking free oh wait.

maxjapank wrote: »

A few questions. Can you use Vigor when in stealth? Will it break you out of stealth? Will it reveal you if you use it during Dark Cloak?

You can use a lot of powers in Stealth also if you're in stealth do you need a heal unless your a Nightblade even then cast then cloak

I know exactly how it works. I've got my ass handed to me over and over to players I couldn't finish simply because they could cast vigor dodge roll a few times hit rally and be topped off. That whole time I'm trying to kill them i'm using resources too.

It's all part of what brought stamina to the best choice for pvp aside for magicka sorc.

You stack three shields.

Can camp your mines.

Can streak away, plus streak wil hard stun though dodge, plus a morph will eat projectiles being thrown at you.

Can run an effective health pool of around 40K with 15K actual health.

You can't be critically hit unless you mess up your shield rotation.

And your irritated at Vigor and its cost and a dodge roll?

If you think it's so damn cheap and a "I win" button slot it on your bar and use it yourself. You said it yourself it's so good and so cheap.

If you think vigor irritates you I can't wait to read your reviews of a nightblade using vigor with shield breaker.

Sorc's are literally at the top of the PVP food chain, Vigor is not a problem if there is a problem with vigor it's that there are not enough stamina based heals in the game

People that exaggerate sorc's so much annoy me. I get that you have trouble with them but can you stop spreading misinformation?

DurzoBlint13 · January 2016

you play as a magica sorc and you are complaining about Vigor? Seriously? What is your Hardened Ward at, 25K? 30K? If they increase the cost for Vigor they should TRIPLE the cost of Hardened ward and give it a cool down timer