Why am I being out-damaged by Templars against PvE mobs?

SecretAtoz · January 2016

I am playing as stamina build Nightblade at lvl 45 and I've seen a lot of Templars out damaging me against PvE mobs; they kill mobs faster than I do. I don't know much about Templar, but Nightblade supposed to deal a lot of damage no? Is it because Nightblade is not that good in PvE content compared to other classes?

If I am getting out-damaged by tanks and healers, I feel like I picked the wrong class and should of created Templar instead. I didn't feel like maining a tank or a healer at first and want a class to deal a lot of damage, but I guess I made a mistake. I don't have time to create a second class, so I will stick to Nightblade for now. I am kind of frustrated that I am getting out-damaged by a healer.

Sykotical · January 2016

This game would be so much better if everyone would stop worrying about which class or build is op and focused, instead, on creating a character that fits your personal style. It seems everyone would be satisfied with smashing one "I win button."

I don't know why it took so long, but I'm starting to see it isn't ZOS's fault when a class is op. It's the community and every damn soul who would give up their identity just to jump on the latest FOTM bandwagon than take pride in their creation and fight with dignity.

NinjaMyk · January 2016

They could be better geared than you or have alts that mean they have access to champion points increasing their damage. On another note your playing this game wrong if you have pigeon holes Templars as being healers and nightblades as damage dealers.for example Nightblades can be healers and tanks also and bloody good ones at that.

Rather than me just telling you to learn to play if you posted you current attribute and skills set up along with the gear you use I may be able to offer some advice on how to increase your damage

Dexter411 · January 2016

SecretAtoz wrote: »

I am playing as stamina build Nightblade at lvl 45 and I've seen a lot of Templars out damaging me against PvE mobs; they kill mobs faster than I do. I don't know much about Templar, but Nightblade supposed to deal a lot of damage no? Is it because Nightblade is not that good in PvE content compared to other classes?

If I am getting out-damaged by tanks and healers, I feel like I picked the wrong class and should of created Templar instead. I didn't feel like maining a tank or a healer at first and want a class to deal a lot of damage, but I guess I made a mistake. I don't have time to create a second class, so I will stick to Nightblade for now. I am kind of frustrated that I am getting out-damaged by a healer.

1. What equipment do you have?
2. What skill are you using?
3. What level are "Templars"?
4. If you do not have any Champion Points(you do not have any Vr1+ character) you will be weaker then people with 200+
Next time give us more information then just babling around with "i am frustrated" and "i think i picked wrong class"
P.S. Do not forget those can be really good players while you could just spam famious ambush on mob.
Why so many people think that the problem is class not themselves.

Deandril · January 2016

I can tell you from my experience leveling my stamblade that they can do tons of damage. If you mean all the main story/cadwell's pve content then yes a stamina nightblade is extremely powerful. As far as running vet dungeons I can see your point.

SecretAtoz · January 2016

@Sykotical Nah, I won't be satisfied with an "I win button." When I first play ESO, I wanted to create a character that dual wield weapons (I didn't know you can use any weapons on any class at that time), quick on it's feet, a class role I haven't play for while from other MMOs, and that deal damage at the same time and it seems to me nightblade fits that role. I didn't picked a class based on being OP or not, I just picked a class I thought could fit that role (without doing research which I regret not doing). I am asking and wondering why my nightblade as a dps role being out-damaged by templar class, which I thought would be a healer/supportive class, that is all.

Dexter411 wrote: »

1. What equipment do you have?
2. What skill are you using?
3. What level are "Templars"?
4. If you do not have any Champion Points(you do not have any Vr1+ character) you will be weaker then people with 200+
Next time give us more information then just babling around with "i am frustrated" and "i think i picked wrong class"
P.S. Do not forget those can be really good players while you could just spam famious ambush on mob.
Why so many people think that the problem is class not themselves.

I am only using lvl 40-45 equips from drops and quests. For skills, I wasn't really spamming the same skill much and use couple of skills, but the Templars I've seen spam this spear flashy skill over and over again and kill mobs in matters of seconds (responding to your P.S.). I use quick cloak to reduce damage and increase movement speed. I am currently lvling up hidden blade and ambush is maxed out, so I left it out so i can lvl other skills. I use Steel Tornado for AoE. I use killer's blade when mob is at low hp. I use Blood Craze to heal me over time. I use Shallow Soul to heal myself over time.

For battle leveling, I am not really sure how strong a low level battle leveled character compared to vet levels, but I read somewhere here that a battle leveled character is a bit stronger than Vr1+, but not really sure about that. I saw couple Templars around my level when doing 30-40 normal content and another at vet level on Orsinium DLC while killing mobs using the flashy spear skill. Champion Points would make sense, since I know nothing about it and how it works. Question, if I were to create a second character and my first character is at Vr1+, will that second character gain any benefits/bonus?

Thanks for everyone's input, I think I found my answer.

Whitebrad25 · January 2016

Because Templars are awesome.

Brrrofski · January 2016

For starters, they provably have champion points. Yes, all characters can use the champion points. Say you got to vet 16 and earned 160, you could apply them to him. Every new character you make will also have 160 champion points. Everytime your bet 16 earns a new one, you can apply to all.

Secondly they're probably using set items. Most likely crafted. These five damage/resource bonuses.

Also, Nightblades are very buff heavy. Rally, Grim focus, attacking from stealth all add a lot of damage. Keeping those buffs up at all times helps.

Dexter411 · January 2016

I am assuming you are stamina build.
You need to focus on stamina abilites, those that cost magicka will do much less damage.(and will heal you for less)
If something cost stamina it scales with stamina and weapon damage, that means it will do more damage or more heal(bigger numbers).
Same goes for magicka abilites but some of them have great utility, like cloak.
I will not tell how you should play but...
The spear flashy skill was propably puncturing sweaps. This is spammable ability, bread and butter of any templar.
If you want to kill mobs fast like them use Veiled Strike moprhed into Surprise Attack.
I would forgot, use medium armor, at least 5 pieces
TL;DR
You are using a lot of utility abilities not like them pure damage spam.

UrQuan · January 2016

You know that a Templar isn't necessarily a tank or a healer, right? Class does not determine role in ESO - your build determines your role. The Templars who are taking down PVE mobs faster than you are probably ones with strong DPS builds. They may have better gear than you, they may have CPs to help them out, or they may just have a more effective set of skills on their bars (although if that's the case it probably means that the skills you've got slotted probably aren't the best combination to maximize your DPS).

Nestor · January 2016

SecretAtoz wrote: »

I don't know much about Templar, but Nightblade supposed to deal a lot of damage no? Is it because Nightblade is not that good in PvE content compared to other classes?

I have all 4 classes and a DPS meter so I have a pretty good idea of what each class can do. I do not min max or anything, just make efficient builds.

Couple of thoughts: Night Blades have an insane initial Burst Damage (sneak attacks from behind with Daggers using Cloak and Veiled Strike iirc the name of the skill) but then the DPS falls off after that. Templars and Sorcerers have a good sustained DPS over time as long as resources don't run out but they do the same damage throughout the fight. DK's, well I am still trying to figure out my DK, but he does not do as well as the other 3 do.

I find my Templar to be more survivable simply because the main attack also heals me. This main attack is pulling 10K to 11K DPS on a single target. I could do a lot more but I don't have the optimized gear for her and with the insane VR16 requirements it will be longer before I can get her geared up. Just for comparison, my Sorcerer using Willpower Jewelry, Julianos and Torugs with VR15 armor and VR16 Nirn Staff can sustain 12K to 16K against a single target, but I have seen 32K+ against squishy targets.

Didgerion · January 2016

SecretAtoz wrote: »

I am playing as stamina build Nightblade at lvl 45 and I've seen a lot of Templars out damaging me against PvE mobs; they kill mobs faster than I do. I don't know much about Templar, but Nightblade supposed to deal a lot of damage no? Is it because Nightblade is not that good in PvE content compared to other classes?

If I am getting out-damaged by tanks and healers, I feel like I picked the wrong class and should of created Templar instead. I didn't feel like maining a tank or a healer at first and want a class to deal a lot of damage, but I guess I made a mistake. I don't have time to create a second class, so I will stick to Nightblade for now. I am kind of frustrated that I am getting out-damaged by a healer.

I can assure you that a well played dps-nighblade will always out-dps a well played dps-templar.

NB is all about using combos - self Bufs and target debufs. At level 45 you might experience a lower DPS because you don't have all passives and all abilities yet.

Danikat · January 2016

There's a lot of good info in this thread, but IMO the main thing to remember is that classes don't have strict roles in ESO.

It's easier to make a Templar into a dedicated healer, or a Dragonknight into a dedicated Tank, or a Nightblade into a dedicated DPS (I've not played a Sorcerer so I'm not sure how they fit in), but that doesn't mean they are the only class that can fill that role or that they are automatically better at it than anyone else attempting the same thing.

A well designed Nightblade healer can out-heal most Templars, and a well designed Templar DPS can out-damage most Nightblades, it all depends on the skills, attributes and equipment you pick and knowing how to use it effectively.

(Which also means it's possible to create decent hybrid builds using any class, but those are less popular, or at least it seems that way on the forum.)

Daveheart · January 2016

SecretAtoz wrote: »

@Sykotical Nah, I won't be satisfied with an "I win button." When I first play ESO, I wanted to create a character that dual wield weapons (I didn't know you can use any weapons on any class at that time), quick on it's feet, a class role I haven't play for while from other MMOs, and that deal damage at the same time and it seems to me nightblade fits that role. I didn't picked a class based on being OP or not, I just picked a class I thought could fit that role (without doing research which I regret not doing). I am asking and wondering why my nightblade as a dps role being out-damaged by templar class, which I thought would be a healer/supportive class, that is all.

Dexter411 wrote: »

1. What equipment do you have?
2. What skill are you using?
3. What level are "Templars"?
4. If you do not have any Champion Points(you do not have any Vr1+ character) you will be weaker then people with 200+
Next time give us more information then just babling around with "i am frustrated" and "i think i picked wrong class"
P.S. Do not forget those can be really good players while you could just spam famious ambush on mob.
Why so many people think that the problem is class not themselves.

I am only using lvl 40-45 equips from drops and quests. For skills, I wasn't really spamming the same skill much and use couple of skills, but the Templars I've seen spam this spear flashy skill over and over again and kill mobs in matters of seconds (responding to your P.S.). I use quick cloak to reduce damage and increase movement speed. I am currently lvling up hidden blade and ambush is maxed out, so I left it out so i can lvl other skills. I use Steel Tornado for AoE. I use killer's blade when mob is at low hp. I use Blood Craze to heal me over time. I use Shallow Soul to heal myself over time.

For battle leveling, I am not really sure how strong a low level battle leveled character compared to vet levels, but I read somewhere here that a battle leveled character is a bit stronger than Vr1+, but not really sure about that. I saw couple Templars around my level when doing 30-40 normal content and another at vet level on Orsinium DLC while killing mobs using the flashy spear skill. Champion Points would make sense, since I know nothing about it and how it works. Question, if I were to create a second character and my first character is at Vr1+, will that second character gain any benefits/bonus?

Thanks for everyone's input, I think I found my answer.

Okay, for single target attacks, you'll want to start using surprise attack. It'll by far be your best single target ability and will far outpace anything from the dual wield skill line. Ambush is okay, but will have less of a place on your bar for a pve setup.

You should strongly consider leveling the two handed skill line. Even if you don't want to use the damage abilities, rally (morph of momentum) will be your strongest stamina based heal. It also makes for a good bar to place your buff skills like grim focus. The other thing that looks weak in your build is using dropped items. The other players you see playing with more ease than you are likely using crafted gear sets. I'd suggest picking up a 5pc set of night mother and 4 morkuldin or ashen grip.

redspecter23 · January 2016

If the templar is out dps'ing you, he has better gear, skill rotations or play experience. Any class can pump out respectable, comparable dps. Just simply being a nightblade does not entitle you to awesome dps. Put in some research, level up, gear up and practice your skill rotations and you can match or beat that templar.