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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Champion System Review- a Possibly Ridiculously Long Answer by Darlgon Telvanni
Darlgon
✭✭✭✭✭
✭
✭
Chapter One- Introduction
Greetings fellow amateur tactics theorists and scholars. I would like to thank the combined Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild committee for inviting me to this emergency conference. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend, due to being currently trapped in the Apocrypha. My acolyte has agreed to deliver this message orally in my place. He has also transcribed my message in written form and available for purchase at the doors. Special signed copies are available for @ZoS_RichLambert , @ZoS_Wrobel, @ZoS_JessicaFolsom, and @ZoS_GinaBruno.
As you know, scholars Tamriel-wide are convened due to a posting from Serjo Eric Wrobel, ESO Lead Combat Designer.
In a thread entitled, "Champion System Ability Review", he posted the following,
Later he wrote:
Now, later, Lady Gina Bruno had to add:
At the risk of offending the Eight and the current ninth Daedra Prince ZoS, the questions raised are outside of the constraints of the discussion, so we have expanded this information into a larger seminar, with many posts from players found in the main thread. (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237255/champion-system-ability-review/p1 ).
(Hmm.. isn't the ninth Celestial the Serpent? Wonder if they are related, maybe from the same Plane?....)
Anyways, many have suggested that my lectures are tiring and long winded, while others enjoy a different viewpoint than theirs and open discussion. For the detractors, grab the alcoholic libation of your choice from the drink vendors near the doors and get ready for a long read. For proponents, thank you for your support. First round of drinks are free, (/cheers) for ones showing their Fighters Guild or Mage's Guild membership cards.. ( a number of /cheers replaced by /grumbling.)
<After a short break>
Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:31PM Greetings fellow amateur tactics theorists and scholars. I would like to thank the combined Fighter's Guild and Mage's Guild committee for inviting me to this emergency conference. Unfortunately, I am unable to attend, due to being currently trapped in the Apocrypha. My acolyte has agreed to deliver this message orally in my place. He has also transcribed my message in written form and available for purchase at the doors. Special signed copies are available for @ZoS_RichLambert , @ZoS_Wrobel, @ZoS_JessicaFolsom, and @ZoS_GinaBruno.
As you know, scholars Tamriel-wide are convened due to a posting from Serjo Eric Wrobel, ESO Lead Combat Designer.
In a thread entitled, "Champion System Ability Review", he posted the following,
Calling all ESO forum posters! We are currently reviewing the Champion System bonuses and would love hear your feedback on them. Our goals for this review are:
- Ensure bonuses have a counter weight
- Improve infrequently selected bonuses
- Effectively communicate all bonuses so it’s easier to understand what they’re doing
Ensure every bonus has a counter weight:
For the Champion System, every offensive bonus should have a defensive counterpart and vice versa. For example: Offensive players can get increased spell penetration from Spell Erosion, while defensive players can get increased spell resistance from Spell Shield.
Improve infrequently selected bonuses:
Some of the Champion Point stars are much less popular than others. It’s not intended that all specs are equally useful, but they should be somewhat useful for some play style. Nourishing is a great example of a passive we are looking at in our review. It’s in the same constellation as Quick Recovery and gives a similar bonus of increased healing. However, Nourishing only works every 45 seconds when you can use a potion and Quick Recovery works all the time on all abilities, from both ally and self cast sources.
Effectively communicate all bonuses so it's easier to understand what they are doing:
It’s unclear exactly how some Champion passives work just by reading their tool tips. For example, Spell Erosion and Piercing are looking at the attackers stats instead of the defenders so the number don't end up being what you may expect. We’ll be cleaning up instances of tool tips like this so they are easy to understand.
We would love to hear what your top three changes would be to the Champion bonuses. Keep in mind the criteria above, and as always, please keep things constructive!
Later he wrote:
Guys, thanks for all the feedback thus far. Here are some suggestions we really like and are considering so far:There are also a bunch of cool ideas in here for new stars, which we’re keeping in mind!
- Ensuring equality between Stamina and Magicka users with the new counter weights in place
- Combining together some of the weaker Champion passives
- No longer requiring players to invest in multiple different stars if their build does more than 1 type of damage
We also want to make an edit to the original post. Befoul is currently working correctly, however we do want to ensure it's a proper counter weight to the increased healing passive. Apologies for the confusion. We've updated the last section on clarity and replaced the example so it now reads as follows:
“It’s unclear exactly how some champion passives work just by reading their tool tips. For example, Spell Erosion and Piercing are looking at the attackers stats instead of the defenders so the number don't end up being what you may expect. We’ll be cleaning up instances of tool tips like this so they are easy to understand.”
Now, later, Lady Gina Bruno had to add:
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »I wish ZOS would participate in these discussions
Keep in mind this thread isn't meant to be a discussion or Q&A, the goal is to gather feedback from everyone about the topic at hand.
With that said, please keep this thread focused on what Wrobel and his team are looking for: three changes you'd like to see with the Champion bonuses. This is not a place to discuss other systems. Thank you!
![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\"){kind=small}
At the risk of offending the Eight and the current ninth Daedra Prince ZoS, the questions raised are outside of the constraints of the discussion, so we have expanded this information into a larger seminar, with many posts from players found in the main thread. (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237255/champion-system-ability-review/p1 ).
(Hmm.. isn't the ninth Celestial the Serpent? Wonder if they are related, maybe from the same Plane?....)
Anyways, many have suggested that my lectures are tiring and long winded, while others enjoy a different viewpoint than theirs and open discussion. For the detractors, grab the alcoholic libation of your choice from the drink vendors near the doors and get ready for a long read. For proponents, thank you for your support. First round of drinks are free, (/cheers) for ones showing their Fighters Guild or Mage's Guild membership cards.. ( a number of /cheers replaced by /grumbling.)
<After a short break>
Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.
2
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Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Two- Perception vs Reality
Why talk about different views to start? Well.. for one thing, player's only have a surface view of things, while ZoS can see much deeper, if they choose to. Staff members have talked about the wonderful things the Accounting Department can produce, IF ASKED. That said, sometimes players feel that the designers are Deadric scamps from the Plane of ZoS, with lots of power, but not using it in the way that benefits denizens of Tamriel.. Let us see a couple examples:
Who remembers watching the video where Paul Sage launched the Champion System at Quakecon 2014? Does anyone remember the video at a conference before that, where one of the devs showed a preview of the constellation system to thunderous applause? (Sigh, could not find the one I was looking for. The pictures and speaker look right, but they seemed to have cut the audience out.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gNVxn80j4g
(Forward to time frame 43:21 for a nostalgic look at the vision of ZoS on the Champion System then...)
Pretty sure every cheering player in the room, and who watched the video after, upon seeing that celestial constellation system, envisioned system much like Skyrim's.. where you could place your points wherever you wanted, no restrictions. You want to level and get special skills in bows? You put points in and progressed along the Bow Constellation. You feel weak in your Light Armor? You spent perks in the Light Armor tree to get special skills and passives. Needless to say.. that perception was quickly dashed.
Or, how about this perception?
[*] Ensure bonuses have a counter weight
..........
[*] Ensuring equality between Stamina and Magicka users with the new counter weights in place
Now, players, from game launch, have had the perception that equality between Magicka, Stamina and Health users was a goal of the game. If the Lead Combat Designer is asking players to state where those things are not equal, that means
1.) They don't know from number crunching OR
2.) They want to know HOW PLAYERS PERCEIVE the disparity
Sadly, as you will see below, the information players has leans toward option 1.Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:11PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.4 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Three- An Overview
At first glance, the system seems easy.
The Champion System is divided into three main categories, characterized by the Celestial who "protects" the others beneath it.
-"The Mage"- Blue in color, indicating primarily Magicka. For players, perceived as being closely associated with Class Abilities, Spells, and Light Armor. This Celestial protects The Apprentice, The Atronach, and The Ritual.
-"The Warrior" – Red in color, indicating a leaning toward Health. For players, this is perceived as leaning toward increasing HP, AC, and defenses, primarily with Heavy Armor. This Celestial protects The Steed, The Lady and The Lord.
-"The Thief"- Green in color indicating a leaning toward Stamina. For players, this is perceived as a leaning toward Weapon Skills, DPS, and Medium Armor. This Celestial protects The Tower, The Lover and The Shadow.
OR, as the Patch notes for 1.6.5 said, at the launch of the Champion Point System:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154426/patch-notes-v1-6-5#latestZoS_GinaBruno wrote:
While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.
Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.
The ZoS reality vs player perception.
As players complete a "level" of XP, after hitting VR levels, they are given a point to put into one of the three Celestials, rotating around from The Mage to the Warrior to the Thief. (Basically players gain a level of experience, but, since they are at/near level cap, the points go into the Champion System instead of into a higher level character, instead of into skills in the base system plus an attribute point.) Under the current system, players are capped at 501 Points that they can use. (167 points into each of the Celestials.) This system will become MORE important, when the VR levels are taken away and things like the ability to equip gear is attached to them, but that is a worry for another day.Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:12PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.3 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Four- The next layer down...perception starts to fall apart
HOWEVER, closer examination says that the player perceptions are actually misconceptions. Even looking at the descriptions of the protected "minor" Celestials.
-"The Mage"--
-"The Apprentice "- "Under the Mage's influence, The Apprentice increases your Magicka and Empowers your spells " (OK, so far go good.)
-"The Atronach"- "Under the Mage's influence, The Atronach boosts your Magicka and trains your Skill-At-Arms " - (Err.. what? Skill at Arms? Isn't that Stamina based?)
-"The Ritual"- "Under the Mage's influence, the Ritual grants you Magicka and makes your attacks more Precise" (OK.. but Precise is a weapon skill, applies to both Staves for Spell Spell Damage and other weapons for Weapon Damage, I guess.)
-"The Warrior"-
-"The Steed"- "Under the Warrior's influence, The Steed boosts your health and shields you from damage" (Okay? Kinda implies both magicka and stamina by mentioning shields.)
-"The Lady"- "Under the Warrior's influence, The Lady gives you Health and protects you from Negative Effects"
(Err.. protection from Negative effects? Like DoTs from spells, Snares, Bleeds, etc.? I guess that is a HP/AC thing, right?)
-"The Lord" - "Under the Warrior's influence, The Lord grants you Health and improves your Vitality" (Finally, something purely for Health)
-"The Thief" --
-"The Tower" - "Under The Thief's influence, The Tower raises your Stamina and makes you more efficient with Spells and Abilities" (All Stamina, all right. Isn't a tower a protective building tho? Oh well.)
-"The Lover" - "Under the Thief's influence, The Lover gives you Stamina and accelerates your Regeneration" (More Stamina and more Sta regen... err wait.. it just said regen...)
-"The Shadow"- "Under the Thief's influence, The Shadow grants you Stamina and helps you Elude your enemies" (Awesome, something to affect my Sta pool and Dodge chance to help my Sta pool.. Hmm.. why didn't it say Dodge? Maybe it means sneaking.. dang it.. that's mainly Nightblades.. I am a DK.)
Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:14PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Five- The Death of Perception
At this point.. I will direct your attention to a Google Doc, especially prepared for this occasion. In it, you will find a description of each component of each celestial, both the "passive" ones you get as you level up that celestial, and the "Participating" ones you put points into.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bEnMf-3WPBoUorripNx_ltYTP7kerXf9LsYi5YSi-6g/edit?usp=sharing
It is a read only, but you should be able to download a copy for personal use.
Again, players have this concept that everything Magicka based should have something Stamina based.. We can call this "Parallelism". They also appear to think that Health should have counters to any damage, both spell and weapon based. We can.. call it "Counters", per Serjo Wrobel's request. That perception dies at the bottom levels, if we look at CP component placement. Lets take a look at each "participating" and "passive" perk, for lack of a better term, and stealing from Skyrim terms, in each of the main categories, and a couple of ways. "Participating" perks require the player to put points in and are percentage based from those points. "Passive" perks are gained thru spending x number of points on participating perks in a single celestial's tree. This discussion assumes that the Champion System is in a "bottle" with no outside contact, mostly. Frankly, if we went into how it affects all skills, we could be here months.Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:14PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Six- The BIG List- Magicka
Below is a rough list. Some perks appear in both, or all three. Following the name and description of the perk, you will find the Protector and the Lesser Celestial, (for example: (The Warrior, The Lady)). “Passive perks”, earned by putting points into a tree, are listed at the top, with “participating perks”, requiring putting Champion Points into are listed in the second part of that celestial. Numbers are based of a level 11 Nightblade with ( 9M/ 1H/ 0S, 3896M/ 3013H/ 2420S, holding level 8 Resto Staff at the bank in Davon's Watch). Numbers in <> are from a VR16 DK, with <23M/18H/23S, 13626M/12971H/20449, holding a 2H sword in bank in Wrothgar.>
Also, moving a copy of the Champ Points ZoS definition here for easy reference. However, this is based on player perception, so differences exist...:ZoS_GinaBruno wrote:
While there are many abilities in each of the three constellation groups, the groups each have a general theme.
Points spent in the Warrior will improve your health and overall defensive capabilities.
Points spent in the Thief will improve your stamina and provide an array of useful utility bonuses.
Points spent in the Mage will enhance magicka and provide bonuses to offense and damage dealing.
Magicka-
-"Arcane Well"- "Gives you a 20% chance when you kill an enemy of opening an Arcane Well, which restores 367 <1362> Magicka up to three allies within 2.5m of the enemy "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice) <Basically get 6% of magicka pool. Very conditional>
-"Windrunning"- "Increases your Movement Speed by 2%. This applies to all types of movement. Also increases Health and Magicka Regeneration by 10% while Sprinting "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover) <Movement speed from Stamina, Health and Magicka regen.. all three..>
-"Foresight"- "Reduces the Magicka cost of your next spell by 80% after you drink a potion "- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice) <Drinking potion required.. Wonder if Skooma counts?>
-"Butcher"- "Light and Heavy Weapon attacks deal 5% extra damage to targets below 25%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Staves use Magicka, other weapons use Stamina. However.. Weapon attacks means Stam.. SPELLS means staves.>
-"Exploiter"- "Increases your damage against off balance enemies by 10%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <This perk applies to both Magicka and Stamina users.>
-"Spell Precision"- "Increases your Spell Critical rating by 12% "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Infusion"- "Increases another players Magicka Recovery by 73 <272> for 8 seconds after you resurrect them"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord) <Magicka recovery.. do I really need to say more? But... 272M is 1.9% of my Stam based build on my DK.. PUNY.. almost MICROSCOPIC Hewmon. >
-"Vengeance"- "Guarantees your next spell will be a critical hit after you block three spells within 10 seconds of each other "- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Retaliation"- "Increases the damage of your next light attack by 30% after blocking a heavy attack"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Staves use Magicka, other weapons use Stamina.>
-"Spell Absorption"- "Restores 577 <3465> Magicka when you take Flame, Frost, Shock, Magic, Earth or Oblivion Damage equivalent to 30% of your Maximum Health. This can occur only once every 10 seconds."- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady) <Technically, this is Health pool based. HOWEVER, the damage is spell based, and the HEAL is Magicka, not Health..>
-"Blessed"- "Increases the effectiveness of any healing you cast by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice) <Also listed under Sta for Vigor, as a Sta heal.>
-"Elemental Expert"- "Increase your Flame, Frost and Shock damage by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Spell Erosion"- "Increases Spell Penetration by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Elfborn"- "Increases the damage and healing dealt by Spell Criticals by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Staff Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with Destruction and Restoration Staves by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Resto and Destro Staves use Magicka..>
-"Thaumaturge"- "Increases your damage with poison, disease, and magic by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Poison, Disease, Magic.. what about Fire? Frost? Lightning? Daedric for pets? >
-"Magician"- "Reduces the Magicka cost of Spells by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower) <Magicka, NOT Stamina>
-"Arcanist"- "Increases your Magicka Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Tenacity"- "Increases the amount of Magicka and Stamina your heavy attacks restore by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover) <Both Stamina and Magicka.>
10 Passive Magicka Perks
10 Participating Magicka Perks
(4 Passive, 2 Participating also in Stamina, 1 Passive is in all three)Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:17PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Seven- The BIG List- Stamina
Stamina-
-"Tactician"- "Sets enemies off balance when you successfully dodge roll to avoid their attack"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Dodge Roll takes Stamina, not magicka.>
-"Unchained"- "Reduces Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient or stagger."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady) <It takes Stamina to Break Free, and then this perk saves even more stamina.>
-"Windrunning"- "Increases your Movement Speed by 2%. This applies to all types of movement. Also increases Health and Magicka Regeneration by 10% while Sprinting "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover) <Movement speed from Stamina, plus Health and Magicka regen.. all three..>
-"Butcher"- "Light and Heavy Weapon attacks deal 5% extra damage to targets below 25%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Staves use Magicka, other weapons use Stamina.>
-"Exploiter"- "Increases your damage against off balance enemies by 10%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <This perk applies to both Magicka and Stamina users.>
-"Riposte "- "While blocking, grants a 15% chance to return 664 <3278> damage to the attacker when you block a melee attack. This can only happen once every 5 seconds "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Blocking takes Stamina, and this is a block of a MELEE attack. However, to be fair, the ZoS version of The Mage line makes this passive deal damage and do offense while on the defense.>
-"Perfect Strike"- "Increases your weapon critical by 12%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Staves use Magicka,, which would be Spell Critical, so other weapons using Stamina.>
-"Retaliation"- "Increases the damage of your next light attack by 30% after blocking a heavy attack"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Staves use Magicka, other weapons use Stamina.>
-"Opportunist"- "Increases the damage of your next physical attack by 15% after you interrupt a spell"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Physical attacks ONLY use Stamina.>
-"Ensnare"- "Grants a 33% chance to reduce an enemies Movement Speed by 20% for 3 seconds, any time you hit them with a Bash Attack"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower) <Snare, costs enemy Stamina, by Bashing, which costs the player Stamina>
-"Blessed"- "Increases the effectiveness of any healing you cast by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice) <Note: Placed here for Vigor, the Sta based AvA skill. Does it affect it? The description does not say magicka only..>
-"Heavy Weapon Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with maces and axes by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Maces and Axes use Stamina..>
-"Bow Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with bows by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Bows use Stamina..>
-"Blade Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with daggers, swords and two-handed swords by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach) <Daggers, 2H Swords and Swords use Stamina..>
-"Precise Strikes"- "Increases damage and healing dealt by Weapon Criticals by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Technically, the wording says Weapon Crits, which can only happen with melee Sta Weapons. If Staves, it would be Spell Crits.>
-"Piercing"- "Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Technically, the wording says physical attacks, which can only happen with melee Sta Weapons. If Staves, it would be spell damage.>
-"Mighty"- "Increase your physical damage by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <Technically, the wording says physical damage, which can only happen with melee Sta Weapons. If Staves, it would be spell damage.>
-"Block Expertise"- "Reduces the cost of blocking by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Steed) <This is Stamina Pool preservation..>
-"Sprinter"- "Reduces the (Stamina) cost of Sprinting by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Bashing Focus"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of Bash Attacks by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Warlord"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Mooncalf"- "Increases your Stamina Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Tenacity"- "Increases the amount of Magicka and Stamina your heavy attacks restore by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover) <Both Stamina and Magicka.>
-"Elusive"- "Reduces the duration of all snares, fear, and disorient effects on you by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Decreased Stamina drain>
-"Shade"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of moving while in Stealth by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Decreased Stamina drain>
-"Tumbling"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of Dodge Roll and Break Free by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Decreased Stamina drain>
10 Passive Perks
16 Participating Perks
(4 Passive, 2 Participating Shared with Magicka, 1 with Health also)Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:16PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Eight- The BIG List- Health
Health-
-"Last Stand"- "When you fall below 20% health, gain Major Heroism, which grants 18 Ultimate over 8 seconds. Can only occur once every 20 seconds "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual) <This perk has a health pool based activation, and "heals" Ultimate.>
-"Reinforced"- "When activating Block, gain a damage shield for 209 <1287> every 10 sec"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed) <Damage shields based off Health pool size..This is 6.435% of a 20K health pool. Is it really worth over 360 levels?>
-"Determination"- "Absorbs 214 <1320> damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord) <Damage shields based off Health pool size..This is 6.6% of a 20K health pool. Is it really worth over 360 levels?>
-"Windrunning"- "Increases your Movement Speed by 2%. This applies to all types of movement. Also increases Health and Magicka Regeneration by 10% while Sprinting "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover) <Movement speed from Stamina, Health and Magicka regen.. all three..>
-"Shield Expert"- "Increases the Armor of equipped Shields by 75%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed) <Note does NOT include shields from Spells.>
-"Critical Leech"- "After critically striking a target, restore 55 <330> Health. This can occur once every 5 seconds."- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady) <Technically, you cannot Crit Strike with a spell, so is this Sta only, or Spell Crit and Crit Strike? Either way, the heal is Health. Lets get real here tho.. with a health pool of 20K at VR16, 330 is 1.65%. That is less than a snowball in hell. Worth 225 Vet Levels? Get real.>
-"Revival"- "Absorbs 1705 <10,496> damage for 5 seconds after you are resurrected by another player"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord) <Damage shields based off Health pool size..And, a "real" number at VR16>
-"Mara's Gift"- "When killed, heal all allies in a(n) 8 meter radius for 550 <3300>"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower) <Heal allies.. by running out of health.. not Stamina. Sigh.. proof Mara REALLY dislikes fighting?>
-"Phase"- "After Dodge Rolling, your Armor is increased by 110 <660> for 3 seconds "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed) <Technically, Dodge Rolling is Stam based, but the AC increase is pure health>
-"Resilient"- "Restores 30 <129> Health when you are hit by a Critical Attack."- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady) <Technically, you cannot Crit Strike with a spell, so is this Sta only, or Spell Crit and Crit Strike? Either way, the heal is Health. Lets get real here tho.. with a health pool of 20K at VR16, 129 is 0.645%. That is a paragraph on a page in the Apocrypha..>
-"Synergizer"- "Grants 2 Ultimate any time you activate a Synergy"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover) <"Heals" Ultimate.>
-"Invigorating Bash"- "Gives you 20% chance to restore 150 <648> Health when you Bash an enemy."- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed) <Technically, Bashing is Stam based, but the Heal is pure health. On the other hand, a scamp in the starter area of Coldharbor has more HP than that heal, making up 4.9% of my glass cannon VR16 DPS build. >
-"Field Physician"- "Reduces damage received while resurrecting another player by 15%"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord) <Damage Reduction>
-"Medium Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped."- (Participating)-(The Warrior, The Steed) <Technically, player perception is this is a Sta based armor set. HOWEVER it is also an increase in Physical Resistance, which is Health..>
-"Resistant"- "Reduces the amount of damage you take from critical hits by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Spell Shield"- "Increases Spell Resistance by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Steed) - <A case can be made for this to be magicka, but, ultimately, it is a defense for the player.>
-"Thick Skinned"- "Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady) - <A case can be made for this to be magicka, but, ultimately, it is a defense for the player.>
-"Elemental Defender"- "Reduces Flame, Frost and Shock Damage dealt to you by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady) - <A case can be made for this to be magicka, but, ultimately, it is a defense for the player.>
-"Hardy"- "Reduces Poison, Disease and Magic Damage dealt to you by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady) - <A case can be made for this to be magicka, but, ultimately, it is a defense for the player.>
-"Light Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% while wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armor"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady) - <A case can be made for this to be magicka, but, ultimately, it is a defense for the player.>
-"Bastion"- "Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Quick Recovery"- Increases the effectiveness of healing received by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Nourishing"- "Increases the effectiveness of healing potions by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord) <Lolz, Argonian passives for EVERYONE...BTW.. Is this Health only? Or Sta and Magicka also?>
-"Heavy Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Healthy"- "Increases your Health Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Befoul"- "increases the effectiveness of Healing Reduction abilities by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Reduces incoming Healing.. from Magicka and Stamina>
14 Passive Perks
11 Participating PerksEdited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:17PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Nine- The BIG List- Other Stuff
Stuff- (Yeah, things that are not related to any of the above)
-"War Mount"- "Improves your mastery with mounts, removing all Stamina costs outside of combat"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower) <Lolz.. what? The Cyrodiil mount Stamina bug for all levels in PVE? Is this a troll for rank 120? I mean.. I guess a VR16 with 360 points could start an alt that needs to have this boost, but... REALLY..?? Probably just go spend Crowns and get it overwith.>
-"Shadowstrike"- "After killing a target with a Heavy Attack, enter stealth for 2.5 seconds. This can only happen once every 5 seconds."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Not really Stamina, or anything else..It sounds cool, but.. ONLY after a HEAVY ATTACK? Has anyone actually bought this?>
-"Master Gatherer"- "Reduces gather times by 50%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Treasure Hunter"- "Increases the quality of items you find in treasure chests"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Not really Stamina, or anything else..>
-"Inspiration Bonus"- "Increases Inspiration gains by 20%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower) <Again.. a person who has leveled to past 50 for 90 levels.. WHY do they need inspiration, unless they just totally ignored crafting? For an alt? Sigh.. So the alt can get to 50 in a week and not be able to do crafting writ turnins because they are too low for Craglorn? Who thinks of this stuff?>
-"Merchant Favored"- "Reduces the cost of armor repairs by 10%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
-"Plentiful Harvest"- "Grants you a 10% chance to double the yield from normal resource nodes"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Fortune Seeker"- "Increases the amount of gold you find in treasure chests and safeboxes by 50%"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow) <Does this stack with ESO Plus? So 20% more gold? If not.. totally worthless for subscribers.. Oh, wait.. ZoS does not care about them anyway.)
Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:18PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Ten Parallelisms and Counters
Now that we have defined each Champion perk, and put them into categories.. Lets look at where the attacking fall (Magicka for Spells and Stamina for Weapons) in parallel and where the Counters are (ideally in Health).
Resource Restoration: (one-time renewal of resource)
Magicka –-
-"Arcane Well"- "Gives you a 20% chance when you kill an enemy of opening an Arcane Well, which restores 367 <1362> Magicka up to three allies within 2.5m of the enemy "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Spell Absorption"- "Restores 577 <3465> Magicka when you take Flame, Frost, Shock, Magic, Earth or Oblivion Damage equivalent to 30% of your Maximum Health. This can occur only once every 10 seconds."- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady)
Stamina and Magicka-
-"Tenacity"- "Increases the amount of Magicka and Stamina your heavy attacks restore by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
Health-
-"Critical Leech"- "After critically striking a target, restore 55 <330> Health. This can occur once every 5 seconds."- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady) (Heal offsets damage, even if started by a crit weapon strike..)
-"Mara's Gift"- "When killed, heal all allies in a(n) 8 meter radius for 550 <3300>"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Resilient"- "Restores 30 <129> Health when you are hit by a Critical Attack."- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady)
-"Invigorating Bash"- "Gives you 20% chance to restore 150 <648> Health when you Bash an enemy."- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed)
Resource Conservation
Magicka-
-"Foresight"- "Reduces the Magicka cost of your next spell by 80% after you drink a potion "- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Magician"- "Reduces the Magicka cost of Spells by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
Stamina-
-"Block Expertise"- "Reduces the cost of blocking by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Sprinter"- "Reduces the (Stamina) cost of Sprinting by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Bashing Focus"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of Bash Attacks by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Warlord"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of spells and abilities by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Shade"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of moving while in Stealth by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
Resource Regeneration
Magicka-
-"Infusion"- "Increases another players Magicka Recovery by 73 <272> for 8 seconds after you resurrect them"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Arcanist"- "Increases your Magicka Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
Stamina-
-"Mooncalf"- "Increases your Stamina Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
Health-
-"Healthy"- "Increases your Health Recovery by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Lover)
Health and Magicka-
-"Windrunning"- "Increases your Movement Speed by 2%. This applies to all types of movement. Also increases Health and Magicka Regeneration by 10% while Sprinting "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
Increased Outgoing/Incoming Healing
Magicka and Stamina-
-"Blessed"- "Increases the effectiveness of any healing you cast by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice) (Outgoing, listed as offensive because it depends on Spell/Weapon Dmg.)
-"Elfborn"- "Increases the damage and healing dealt by Spell Criticals by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Quick Recovery"- Increases the effectiveness of healing received by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Nourishing"- "Increases the effectiveness of healing potions by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
Counter-
-"Befoul"- "increases the effectiveness of Healing Reduction abilities by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
Increase chance to Crit
Magicka-
-"Spell Precision"- "Increases your Spell Critical rating by 12% "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Vengeance"- "Guarantees your next spell will be a critical hit after you block three spells within 10 seconds of each other "- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
Stamina-
-"Perfect Strike"- "Increases your weapon critical by 12%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
Increased Damage Output
Magicka-
-"Elemental Expert"- "Increase your Flame, Frost and Shock damage by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Elfborn"- "Increases the damage and healing dealt by Spell Criticals by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
-"Staff Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with Destruction and Restoration Staves by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Thaumaturge"- "Increases your damage with poison, disease, and magic by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
Stamina-
-"Riposte "- "While blocking, grants a 15% chance to return 664 <3278> damage to the attacker when you block a melee attack. This can only happen once every 5 seconds "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Opportunist"- "Increases the damage of your next physical attack by 15% after you interrupt a spell"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
-"Heavy Weapon Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with maces and axes by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Bow Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with bows by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Blade Expert"- "Increases the damage of your light and heavy attacks with daggers, swords and two-handed swords by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Precise Strikes"- "Increases damage and healing dealt by Weapon Criticals by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) (Technically, the wording says Weapon Crits, which can only happen with melee Sta Weapons. If Staves, it would be Spell Crits.)
-"Mighty"- "Increase your physical damage by x% "- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual) (Technically, the wording says physical damage, which can only happen with melee Sta Weapons. If Staves, it would be spell damage.)
Stamina and Magicka-
-"Butcher"- "Light and Heavy Weapon attacks deal 5% extra damage to targets below 25%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Exploiter"- "Increases your damage against off balance enemies by 10%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
-"Retaliation"- "Increases the damage of your next light attack by 30% after blocking a heavy attack"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
Counter Magicka-
-"Spell Shield"- "Increases Spell Resistance by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Elemental Defender"- "Reduces Flame, Frost and Shock Damage dealt to you by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady)
-"Hardy"- "Reduces Poison, Disease and Magic Damage dealt to you by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady)
Counter General-
-"Resistant"- "Reduces the amount of damage you take from critical hits by x%"- (Participating)
-"Bastion"- "Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Thick Skinned"- "Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by x%"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady)
Counter Special Cases-
-"Reinforced"- "When activating Block, gain a damage shield for 209 <1287> every 10 sec"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Determination"- "Absorbs 214 <1320> damage for 15 seconds after drinking a potion."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Shield Expert"- "Increases the Armor of equipped Shields by 75%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Revival"- "Absorbs 1705 <10,496> damage for 5 seconds after you are resurrected by another player"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord)
-"Field Physician"- "Reduces damage received while resurrecting another player by 15%"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lord)
Decrease Enemy AC
Magicka-
-"Spell Erosion"- "Increases Spell Penetration by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Apprentice)
Stamina-
-"Piercing"- "Increases the amount of Armor your physical attacks ignore by x%"- (Participating)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
Counter-
-"Phase"- "After Dodge Rolling, your Armor is increased by 110 <660> for 3 seconds "- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Light Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% while wearing 5 or more pieces of Light Armor"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lady)
-"Medium Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped."- (Participating)-(The Warrior, The Steed)
-"Heavy Armor Focus"- "Increases your Physical Resistance by x% while wearing 5 or more pieces of heavy armor"- (Participating)- (The Warrior, The Lord)
Crowd Control-
-"Tactician"- "Sets enemies off balance when you successfully dodge roll to avoid their attack"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Atronach)
-"Ensnare"- "Grants a 33% chance to reduce an enemies Movement Speed by 20% for 3 seconds, any time you hit them with a Bash Attack"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower)
Counters-
-"Unchained"- "Reduces Stamina cost of abilities by 80% for 3 seconds after breaking free of a stun, knockdown, fear, disorient or stagger."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Warrior, The Lady)
-"Elusive"- "Reduces the duration of all snares, fear, and disorient effects on you by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
-"Tumbling"- "Reduces the Stamina cost of Dodge Roll and Break Free by x%"- (Participating)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
Other-
-"Last Stand"- "When you fall below 20% health, gain Major Heroism, which grants 18 Ultimate over 8 seconds. Can only occur once every 20 seconds "- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Mage, The Ritual)
-"War Mount"- "Improves your mastery with mounts, removing all Stamina costs outside of combat"- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Shadowstrike"- "After killing a target with a Heavy Attack, enter stealth for 2.5 seconds. This can only happen once every 5 seconds."- (Rank 120 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
-"Master Gatherer"- "Reduces gather times by 50%"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Treasure Hunter"- "Increases the quality of items you find in treasure chests"- (Rank 75 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
-"Synergizer"- "Grants 2 Ultimate any time you activate a Synergy"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Inspiration Bonus"- "Increases Inspiration gains by 20%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Tower)
-"Merchant Favored"- "Reduces the cost of armor repairs by 10%"- (Rank 30 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
-"Plentiful Harvest"- "Grants you a 10% chance to double the yield from normal resource nodes"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Lover)
-"Fortune Seeker"- "Increases the amount of gold you find in treasure chests and safeboxes by 50%"- (Rank 10 passive)-(The Thief, The Shadow)
Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:26PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Eleven Analysis of Parallelism and Counter, and introducing Conditional
At this point, we also need to introduce one other aspect to our analysis. Not all of these perks are “Always On”. A LARGE number of them require certain conditions to be met. So, in addition to summarizing Passive and Participating Perks, those with special conditions to be met will also be separated out. To be noted.. other than requiring a “Heavy Attack” most Participating Perks are not conditional.. but.. that IS a condition to be met, so they also are separate.
This translates into:
Resource Restoration
Magicka- 2 Conditional Passive Perks
Stamina- (WHERE IS THIS PARALLEL?)
Health – 4 Conditional Passive Perks
Stamina and Magicka – 1 Conditional Participating Perk
Resource Conservation
Magicka – 1 Conditional Passive, 1 Participating Perk
Stamina – 1 Participating Perks, 4 Conditional Participating Perks... (Pausing right here to say.. except one, EVERY ONE of the participating perks for this plus CC counters are conditional, based on Blocking, Sprinting, Bashing, Stealth, Dodge Rolling or Breaking Free. Combine them all and.. you get Warlord, the equal to Magician in Magicka.)
Health – IS THERE A HEALTH PARALLEL?
Resource Regeneration
Magicka – 1 Conditional Passive, 1 Participating
Stamina – 1 Participating
Health – 1 Participating
Health and Magicka – 1 Conditional Passive
Increased Outgoing/Incoming Healing
Magicka and Stamina – 2 Participating, 2 Conditional Participating
Counter – 1 Participating
Increase chance to Crit
Magicka – 1 Passive, 1 Conditional Passive
Stamina – 1 Passive
Increased Damage Output
Magicka – 3 Conditional Participating, 1 Participating
Stamina – 2 Conditional Passive, 4 Conditional Participating, 1 Participating
Stamina and Magicka – 3 Conditional Passive
Counter Magicka – 2 Conditional Participating, 1 Participating
Counter General – 3 Conditional Participating
Counter Special Cases – 5 Conditional Passives
Decrease Enemy AC
Magicka – 1 Participating
Stamina – 1 Participating
Counter – 1 Conditional Passive, 3 Conditional Participating
Crowd Control – 2 Conditional Passive
Counter- 1 Conditional Passive, 2 Conditional Participating Perks
Other – 3 Conditional Passive, 7 Passive
Summary of the Summary
So, basically, we have:
28 Conditional Passive Perks
8 Passive Perks
25 Conditional Participating
12 Participating
One question now arises... WHY IN OBLIVION DOES MOST OF THE CHAMPION POINT SYSTEM DEPEND ON SPECIAL CONDITIONS BEING MET? Does it really help players if the system is so complex it take a 16 page document to review it?
Sigh.. OK..more than one.. Lets move along then..And try to consolidate the questions..Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:27PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Twelve Wrobel Questions and Questions..
Again.. @Wrobel is looking for:Calling all ESO forum posters! We are currently reviewing the Champion System bonuses and would love hear your feedback on them. Our goals for this review are:- Ensure bonuses have a counter weight
- Improve infrequently selected bonuses
- Effectively communicate all bonuses so it’s easier to understand what they’re doing
Ensure every bonus has a counter weight:
For the Champion System, every offensive bonus should have a defensive counterpart and vice versa. For example: Offensive players can get increased spell penetration from Spell Erosion, while defensive players can get increased spell resistance from Spell Shield.
Improve infrequently selected bonuses:
Some of the Champion Point stars are much less popular than others. It’s not intended that all specs are equally useful, but they should be somewhat useful for some play style. Nourishing is a great example of a passive we are looking at in our review. It’s in the same constellation as Quick Recovery and gives a similar bonus of increased healing. However, Nourishing only works every 45 seconds when you can use a potion and Quick Recovery works all the time on all abilities, from both ally and self cast sources.
Effectively communicate all bonuses so it's easier to understand what they are doing:
It’s unclear exactly how some Champion passives work just by reading their tool tips. For example, Spell Erosion and Piercing are looking at the attackers stats instead of the defenders so the number don't end up being what you may expect. We’ll be cleaning up instances of tool tips like this so they are easy to understand.
We would love to hear what your top three changes would be to the Champion bonuses. Keep in mind the criteria above, and as always, please keep things constructive!
Lets see.. so.. we have missing counterweights for:
Magicka, Stamina and Health Restoration
Magicka, Stamina and Health Conservation
Magicka, Stamina and Health Regeneration
(No.. not really. These really dont need CP counters, they have plenty of other counters in-game.. but.. you asked which did not have a counter INSIDE CP..)
Damage Output
Need some more counters to Stamina/Weapon Dmg increases
Now.. thats just an overview.. So many of these perks have conditions to be met...How can you counter something that only happens when a player is at 20% health? Or when a player dies? How can you counter something that only happens when a player does a heavy attack? Counter it with something that only happens when the defender does a HEAVY BLOCK? (Wait, that does not exist.) How do you counter something that only happens on a spell crit? Have a reaction when the defender does a CRITICAL SPELL BLOCK? (That either.)
Sigh..too much of this system is conditional to make a consistent analysis of what is the same between Magicka and Stamina, and what is a TRUE counter, not just one on paper.
Also, looking at the over all system.. why are so many perks in the “wrong” celestial's area? Not all magicka skills are in The Mage, nor are all Stamina skills in The Thief.
Additionally.. a LOT of the higher level Passive Perks are.. well.. Weak.. as in.. “Why spend 360 levels to get THIS?”
(As a side note... @Wrobel The Celestials are all Deities. As such.. the definitive article “The” is capitalized. In every sentence, in every description of a perk, in everything related to them.. Please have your proof-reader check for that before your next iteration of the Champion System. Also, when using numbers, the “a” or “an” is based off the number after that article. So, if you have text that does not change, (excluding ones like the percentages do from Participating Skills), it is “AN 8 percent chance to crit”, or “A 9 percent chance to fail”. )Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:28PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.3 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter Thirteen One More Inconsistency
One last inconsistency to point out to players.. Not all Participating Perks are equal. One point in one perk does NOT always increase it as much as a point in another. With each point equaling a VR level, one must ask.. (A complete list found at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bEnMf-3WPBoUorripNx_ltYTP7kerXf9LsYi5YSi-6g/edit#gid=321501794 , in the second tab.) WHY NOT?
Below are the SIX different increase scales inside the Participating Perks.
Scale 1: Light, Medium and Heavy Armor Passives
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points = 1.5
3 Points = 1.8
4 Points = 2.2
5 Points = 2.5
6 Points = 2.7
7 Points = 3.0
8 Points = 3.2
9 Points = 3.4
10 Points = 3.6
30 Points = 6.6
40 Points = 7.8
Scale 2: Quick Recovery, Magician, Warlord, Tenacity, Shade
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points =1.5
3 Points = 1.9
4 Points = 2.3
5 Points = 2.6
6 Points = 2.9
7 Points = 3.2
8 Points = 3.5
9 Points = 3.8
10 Points = 4.0
30 Points = 7.8
40 Points = 9.2
Scale 3: Tumbling
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points = 1.5
3 Points = 2.0
4 Points = 2.4
5 Points = 2.7
6 Points = 3.1
7 Points = 3.4
8 Points = 3.7
9 Points = 4.0
10 Points = 4.2
30 Points = 8.5
40 Points = 10.1
Scale 4: Thick Skinned, Bastion, Sprinter, Elusive
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points = 1.6
3 Points = 2.1
4 Points = 2.6
5 Points = 3.0
6 Points = 3.4
7 Points = 3.8
8 Points = 4.2
9 Points = 4.6
10 Points = 4.9
30 Points = 10.5
40 Points = 12.7
Scale 5: Blessed, Elfborn, Elemental Expert, Spell Erosion, Heavy Weapon, Staff, Bow, and Blade Expert, Mighty, Piercing, Precise Strikes, Thaumaturge, Block Expertise, Spell Shield, Resistant, Elemental Defender, Hardy, Nourishing, Bashing Focus, Arcanist, Healthy, Mooncalf
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points = 1.6
3 Points = 2.2
4 Points = 2.6
5 Points = 3.1
6 Points = 3.5
7 Points = 3.9
8 Points = 4.3
9 Points = 4.6
10 Points = 5.0
30 Points = 10.8
40 Points = 13.2
Scale 6: Befoul
1 Point = 1.0
2 Points = 1.7
3 Points = 2.3
4 Points = 2.9
5 Points = 3.4
6 Points = 3.9
7 Points = 4.4
8 Points = 4.8
9 Points = 5.3
10 Points = 5.7
30 Points = 13.6
40 Points = 16.8
Concerning, is it not?Edited by Darlgon on January 8, 2016 3:18PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.2 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chapter 14 Conclusion
This concludes our look at the CURRENT Champion Point System. It is troublesome that such a conditional, erratic, inconsistent system is chartered to replace the current system of Veteran Ranks, WITH THINGS LIKE ACCESS TO ARMOR being tacked on.
Hopefully the Aedra will intervene on behalf of the players and do a revamp of a LOT of the systems. allowing MORE player freedom of choice, yet also preventing it from becoming MORE of a divisive influence between newer players vs older players than it is now..
To accomplish that? My scholarly opinion? Here are some suggestions:
1. Make each point available,, not on a screwed up, rotating circle, but directly to be used
2. Equalize the increases across the board for all perks, since they all take the same number of XP to get the point
3. More clearly define what each constellation member does, identify which skills REALLY belong under it and move them. Some constellations may have more.. SO? Room to put new perks in other areas.
4. Consolidate conditional perks into permanent, possibly even weaker at low level, perks that grow as a player puts more points in.. but, independent of the whole, so many points here will help you get THIS Passive perk
5. Place Offensive and Defensive Perks IN THE SAME TREE, so they are obvious. Then, when a player says.. “Hey, I am getting tired of getting hit with spell crits” They look in the Spell Celestial and find “Spell Critical Resistance.” Or.. “Hey, my health regen seems low” they look in the Health Celestial for “Health Regen”
6.Make it so, having a few points into a celestial unlocks a MEANINGFUL buff to that same area, but making the player spend points on it to improve.
7. Have many paths in each celestial to get to the best buff, so players don't feel forced to follow the same builds all the time.
OK.. Enough talking and dreaming.
Thank you for your time.. Please be constructive in your replies below. This is a WHOLE LOT of data to chew on, so note any errors and I will correct as I can.
Until next time, as I have run substantially overtime. Serjo Darlgon Telvanni.. Out.Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:28PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.3 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hold for future notes.
Edited by Darlgon on January 2, 2016 10:28PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.1 -
shugg✭✭✭Long read, had to go to the bathroom halfway through... Don't worry still read it in there.
Its a good right up and i agree but getting zos to change so much of the champ system will be hard, at this stage they prob have a plan for the cp version 1.0 .
However i hope they read this and its prompted them to re think or re look at the direction they are taking it.0 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭@Darlgon Nice read and a great way to show inconsistent the champion system is but I have a question about one of your conclusion suggestions.
1. Make each point available,, not on a screwed up, rotating circle, but directly to be used
The way the vet system worked was that with every rank we each get a little bit of health, stamina, and magicka. Since the champion system is suppose to replace this it seems they added this rotation to naturally increase our health, stamina, and magicka through progression.
How would you go by doing this without the rotation?0 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »@Darlgon Nice read and a great way to show inconsistent the champion system is but I have a question about one of your conclusion suggestions.
1. Make each point available,, not on a screwed up, rotating circle, but directly to be used
The way the vet system worked was that with every rank we each get a little bit of health, stamina, and magicka. Since the champion system is suppose to replace this it seems they added this rotation to naturally increase our health, stamina, and magicka through progression.
How would you go by doing this without the rotation?
@Darkonflare15 The same way we do attributes leveling up.. pick where you want it. Not a forced.. put x into Magicka, y into Health and z into Stamina. You want to build a glass cannon with all your points into Elemental Magicka DPS, its YOUR funeral, or theirs, if they dont have any points into resists.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.0 -
CaptainObvious✭✭✭✭Remember that the CP system was designed prior to the seasonal cap. Also remember that reworking this stuff is less time for new stuff. The greater the change the greater the time to implement and the shorter then runway before there is a better widget on the market.Due to a typo in the system, the area was accosted by the Daedric Prince Moar Lag Brawls.0
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Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good read OP and I agree that the current CP system needs a overhaul, that's for sure. I do have a question about Chapter 13. What's the difference between Scale 1 and Scale 5? They are both listed as Light, Medium, and Heavy armor passives.0 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good read OP and I agree that the current CP system needs a overhaul, that's for sure. I do have a question about Chapter 13. What's the difference between Scale 1 and Scale 5? They are both listed as Light, Medium, and Heavy armor passives.
@Ashtaris At 40 points in, they have at 7.8 and 13.2..
Oh.. wait.. reread question.You mean scale Six.. yeah.. sorry.. copy paste error there.. good catch.. Scale 6 is Befoul.. ONLY BEFOUL? Edited to fix.
Edited by Darlgon on January 8, 2016 3:21PMPower level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.0
