AoE caps are currently crutches for baddies.

KenaPKK · January 2016

Just a friendly reminder that AoE caps are killing this game. I say this objectively. PvP would be in a wholly healthier place without them.

Zerg more, my friends. Zerg more.

Edit: also, proxy det is poor design and is unhealthy for PvP.

Iyas · January 2016

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

Jura23 · January 2016

If you mean organized 24 man ball groups by baddies, then yes. If you mean pugs, often not even grouped, then hardly.

PainfulFAFA · January 2016

Heres to another year of AoE caps!

:'(

Anzriel · January 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Just a friendly reminder that AoE caps are killing this game. I say this objectively. PvP would be in a wholly healthier place without them.

Zerg more, my friends. Zerg more.

Indeed. I don't have an issue with people zerging as much as stacking the deck in favor of zergs. It would be nice to hear SOMETHING our of Wroebel, but I suspect we won't hear anything until he will announce they're staying for whatever reason. Here's to hoping I'm wrong. Dx

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

Anzriel · January 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

Jura23 · January 2016

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

I'm also against protecting zergs this way. On the other hand, I would prefer if they find some solution that will not promote using of AoE at all.

Derra · January 2016

Iyas wrote: »

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

I would not say no one cares - it´s worse. They feel the need to have them but don´t want to admit it.

That´s why there is discussions on caps where @Wrobel does not come back to participate in a discussion he created himself. Instead he´s sending Gina to tell us they´ll eventually create another discussion when he´s truely ready to communicate about the topic.

I truely believe he´s miscast for the position he´s in. Someone who clearely has no clue about any form of pvp can´t be the lead of combat/ability design in a game that offers pve and pvp.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2016

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

Leandor · January 2016

I am sure that OP has a point, even though the first change to AoE caps didn't make a lick of a difference. I just don't know which one.

Jura23 · January 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

Yeah. As much as zergbombing is cool, it's not really skill based. It's about stat numbers and good timing, but I think if we want to see skilled gameplay in PvP, we shouldn't encourage excessive use of AoE abilities.

themdogesbite · January 2016

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Anzriel wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You guys say this until a group of organized proxy/bat group wipe out entire Zerg of 40 with just 10 people lol hell I can just imagine hitting someone with ice comet as emp with no caps , I already one shotted people with it

If a smaller group outplays a larger group, they SHOULD kill the larger one. The AoE caps don't protect good players. We're not asking to penalize large groups, we're asking to not have things in the game that FAVOR a zerg beyond the superiority of number that they already have. The 40 already have a massive advantage if they aren't a bag of potatoes against 10. They don't need AoE caps to protect them on top of it. Even if all it did was cause groups to spread out so they don't get bombed it'd be helpful.

lol no matter how good I am , I shouldn't be able to wipe 40 people with 3 guys. I've already been part of large wipes with just 3 people bombing a big group at once. Take away aoe caps this also will make the Zerg balls stronger that run around with proxy against pugs.

I don't know maybe you guys never seen good players actually decide to Zerg ball too lol which seems to be the new troll these days. It's really just a double edge sword you guys are asking for, instead of removing it, it should be raised/adjusted.

People blobbing and turteling are the only people that WONT benefit from no AoE caps.

Leandor · January 2016

Mate, what Banana Squad does is exactly the same as what the mass zergs do. There is zero difference between 10 people running prox, swarm and lolnado and 100 doing it. I know you guys are among the top players european PvP has to offer but you nonetheless cheese around.

Unless a defense against this meta is implemented, changing AoE caps will not eliminate the cheese at all. Every other game does that by making AoE do a fraction of the damage per target compared to what a single target attack delivers.

Every attack that does large area damage must have some kind of massive downside, e.g. immobility or preventing block, otherwise all these changes will only result in an adjustment of numbers, not a change of meta.

Psilent · January 2016

Remove AoE caps and my group of 2 will just meteor/dragonleap your group of 24+ and rake in the AP. Can already do it now with empowered leap and meteor, it'll be even more insane without AoE caps.

If they do remove AoE caps I fully expect AoE damage output to be decreased significantly in PvP; it'll feel like AoE caps were never removed.

themdogesbite · January 2016

Leandor wrote: »

Mate, what Banana Squad does is exactly the same as what the mass zergs do. There is zero difference between 10 people running prox, swarm and lolnado and 100 doing it. I know you guys are among the top players european PvP has to offer but you nonetheless cheese around.

Unless a defense against this meta is implemented, changing AoE caps will not eliminate the cheese at all. Every other game does that by making AoE do a fraction of the damage per target compared to what a single target attack delivers. Every attack that does large area damage must have some kind of massive downside, e.g. immobility or preventing block, otherwise all these changes will only result in an adjustment of numbers, not a change of meta.

I'm not sure many remember since most of the people that played back then probably quit, but until 1.4 we almost never went above 8 people groups, it was our max cap. And this was viable cause there was skills and mechanics in the game that allowed us to efficently zergbust close to everything with that size of a group.

Theese days we hardly have anything that helps you fight against larger numbers. Now we also have even more free mitigation from IC patch togheter with AoE caps and there is so much free damage reduction from turteling. Even if AoE was ineffefective running a larger group would be the strongest way to play.

No AoE caps is the best defense against the current disease ridden state PvP is in now, The AP changes are a good start but turteling for damage reduction needs to go. Having superiour numbers is already more then enough of a advantage you should'nt get your hand held aswell. A change in numbers is exactly what we need. If you can make more points with less people there will be smaller groups.

The best example ever in what would happen without AoE caps is what old fragmented shields did, that skill if anything punished turteling.

Leandor · January 2016

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Mate, what Banana Squad does is exactly the same as what the mass zergs do. There is zero difference between 10 people running prox, swarm and lolnado and 100 doing it. I know you guys are among the top players european PvP has to offer but you nonetheless cheese around.

Unless a defense against this meta is implemented, changing AoE caps will not eliminate the cheese at all. Every other game does that by making AoE do a fraction of the damage per target compared to what a single target attack delivers. Every attack that does large area damage must have some kind of massive downside, e.g. immobility or preventing block, otherwise all these changes will only result in an adjustment of numbers, not a change of meta.

I'm not sure many remember since most of the people that played back then probably quit, but until 1.4 we almost never went above 8 people groups, it was our max cap. And this was viable cause there was skills and mechanics in the game that allowed us to efficently zergbust close to everything with that size of a group.

Theese days we hardly have anything that helps you fight against larger numbers. Now we also have even more free mitigation from IC patch togheter with AoE caps and there is so much free damage reduction from turteling. Even if AoE was ineffefective running a larger group would be the strongest way to play.

No AoE caps is the best defense against the current disease ridden state PvP is in now, The AP changes are a good start but turteling for damage reduction needs to go. Having superiour numbers is already more then enough of a advantage you should'nt get your hand held aswell. A change in numbers is exactly what we need. If you can make more points with less people there will be smaller groups.

The best example ever in what would happen without AoE caps is what old fragmented shields did, that skill if anything punished turteling.

I remember some from good old Auriel's Bow campaign. That said, my opinion still is the same. 4, 8, 10, 100, numbers don't matter. Running together with rapids spam, precharged prox, lolnado, BoL and perfect ultimate placement takes a lot of training and discipline, but still is cheesecake.

Change all AoE (in Cyrodiil only!) to do 1/10 the damage but uncapped and you prevent blobbing. The fact that prox and lolnado are used 1v1 alone tells you that AoE is waaaaaay to strong for any kind of PvP to flourish.

BuggeX · January 2016

Derra wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

I would not say no one cares - it´s worse. They feel the need to have them but don´t want to admit it.

That´s why there is discussions on caps where @Wrobel does not come back to participate in a discussion he created himself. Instead he´s sending Gina to tell us they´ll eventually create another discussion when he´s truely ready to communicate about the topic.

I truely believe he´s miscast for the position he´s in. Someone who clearely has no clue about any form of pvp can´t be the lead of combat/ability design in a game that offers pve and pvp.

and some off you know the *** better? anyone wants to Change something and doesnt even think how it will end if anything will be changed.

anyone Claims it was better back then without caps, well mby, but back we also got softcaps and we didnt got insta prox.

if you remove the cap right now the game will end in a disaster.

just think about Shootingstar, you get 13 ulti for any target hit, with a cap of 6 it will be max 72 ulti, now think if you hit 15 Players. Shootingstar spam inc

Jura23 · January 2016

Leandor wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Mate, what Banana Squad does is exactly the same as what the mass zergs do. There is zero difference between 10 people running prox, swarm and lolnado and 100 doing it. I know you guys are among the top players european PvP has to offer but you nonetheless cheese around.

Unless a defense against this meta is implemented, changing AoE caps will not eliminate the cheese at all. Every other game does that by making AoE do a fraction of the damage per target compared to what a single target attack delivers. Every attack that does large area damage must have some kind of massive downside, e.g. immobility or preventing block, otherwise all these changes will only result in an adjustment of numbers, not a change of meta.

I'm not sure many remember since most of the people that played back then probably quit, but until 1.4 we almost never went above 8 people groups, it was our max cap. And this was viable cause there was skills and mechanics in the game that allowed us to efficently zergbust close to everything with that size of a group.

Theese days we hardly have anything that helps you fight against larger numbers. Now we also have even more free mitigation from IC patch togheter with AoE caps and there is so much free damage reduction from turteling. Even if AoE was ineffefective running a larger group would be the strongest way to play.

No AoE caps is the best defense against the current disease ridden state PvP is in now, The AP changes are a good start but turteling for damage reduction needs to go. Having superiour numbers is already more then enough of a advantage you should'nt get your hand held aswell. A change in numbers is exactly what we need. If you can make more points with less people there will be smaller groups.

The best example ever in what would happen without AoE caps is what old fragmented shields did, that skill if anything punished turteling.

I remember some from good old Auriel's Bow campaign. That said, my opinion still is the same. 4, 8, 10, 100, numbers don't matter. Running together with rapids spam, precharged prox, lolnado, BoL and perfect ultimate placement takes a lot of training and discipline, but still is cheesecake.

Change all AoE (in Cyrodiil only!) to do 1/10 the damage but uncapped and you prevent blobbing. The fact that prox and lolnado are used 1v1 alone tells you that AoE is waaaaaay to strong for any kind of PvP to flourish.

Exactly. I'm saying this for a while, but nobody seems to get it.

themdogesbite · January 2016

Leandor wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Mate, what Banana Squad does is exactly the same as what the mass zergs do. There is zero difference between 10 people running prox, swarm and lolnado and 100 doing it. I know you guys are among the top players european PvP has to offer but you nonetheless cheese around.

Unless a defense against this meta is implemented, changing AoE caps will not eliminate the cheese at all. Every other game does that by making AoE do a fraction of the damage per target compared to what a single target attack delivers. Every attack that does large area damage must have some kind of massive downside, e.g. immobility or preventing block, otherwise all these changes will only result in an adjustment of numbers, not a change of meta.

I'm not sure many remember since most of the people that played back then probably quit, but until 1.4 we almost never went above 8 people groups, it was our max cap. And this was viable cause there was skills and mechanics in the game that allowed us to efficently zergbust close to everything with that size of a group.

Theese days we hardly have anything that helps you fight against larger numbers. Now we also have even more free mitigation from IC patch togheter with AoE caps and there is so much free damage reduction from turteling. Even if AoE was ineffefective running a larger group would be the strongest way to play.

No AoE caps is the best defense against the current disease ridden state PvP is in now, The AP changes are a good start but turteling for damage reduction needs to go. Having superiour numbers is already more then enough of a advantage you should'nt get your hand held aswell. A change in numbers is exactly what we need. If you can make more points with less people there will be smaller groups.

The best example ever in what would happen without AoE caps is what old fragmented shields did, that skill if anything punished turteling.

I remember some from good old Auriel's Bow campaign. That said, my opinion still is the same. 4, 8, 10, 100, numbers don't matter. Running together with rapids spam, precharged prox, lolnado, BoL and perfect ultimate placement takes a lot of training and discipline, but still is cheesecake.

Change all AoE (in Cyrodiil only!) to do 1/10 the damage but uncapped and you prevent blobbing. The fact that prox and lolnado are used 1v1 alone tells you that AoE is waaaaaay to strong for any kind of PvP to flourish.

Uhm no if people use AoE in a duel then they probably have no idea what they are doing. If they get cought open world and AoE is their only damageing abbility then they probably have a very bad setup, thats not AoEs beeing to strong. Proxdet beeing to strong single target is beeing changed aswell.

I can assure you there is a big diffrence between running 10 players and 24 players "cheesing" The latest GvG event we had should prove that. Otherwise you would see more smaller "cheeseraids" then you do now. (Also that running more people gives you more AP for free which is thankfully beeing changed.)

Your singletarget skills only utopia would never work in Cyrodiil ever. Im sorry.

BuggeX wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

I would not say no one cares - it´s worse. They feel the need to have them but don´t want to admit it.

That´s why there is discussions on caps where @Wrobel does not come back to participate in a discussion he created himself. Instead he´s sending Gina to tell us they´ll eventually create another discussion when he´s truely ready to communicate about the topic.

I truely believe he´s miscast for the position he´s in. Someone who clearely has no clue about any form of pvp can´t be the lead of combat/ability design in a game that offers pve and pvp.

and some off you know the *** better? anyone wants to Change something and doesnt even think how it will end if anything will be changed.

anyone Claims it was better back then without caps, well mby, but back we also got softcaps and we didnt got insta prox.

if you remove the cap right now the game will end in a disaster.

just think about Shootingstar, you get 13 ulti for any target hit, with a cap of 6 it will be max 72 ulti, now think if you hit 15 Players. Shootingstar spam inc

And then you could spam meteors on that turteling group until they got forced to spread out from the AoE OR until they die. I dont see a ptoblem with that. Besides, its not like full groups of 24 already rely on fall damage from meteors as their only win condition. lol.

Takllin · January 2016

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

themdogesbite · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly not "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

Takllin · January 2016

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

Jhunn · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

People are pissed because a 60 man zerg won't only get a statistical advantage (numbers, more damage, healing, ultis) but also an advantage in damage reduction just because they're more people. It doesn't make sense.

themdogesbite · January 2016

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

Sorry, i meant to write; "not "the" solution". My bad. ungrouped players / PuGs usualy dont turtle up much, its guild groups that do that.

Takllin · January 2016

Jhunn wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

People are pissed because a 60 man zerg won't only get a statistical advantage (numbers, more damage, healing, ultis) but also an advantage in damage reduction just because they're more people. It doesn't make sense.

Because they can't wipe that group anymore...

I agree with you that you shouldn't have this huge artificial mitigation by having more numbers, but like I said it's only an issue now because of healing and the damage nerf.

I'm for the removal/change of AoE caps, let's just not hide the reasons why people want them removed.

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

AoE caps are only an issue because of how powerful healing is, and the Battle Spirit changes.

I think it's funny that some people act like it's the end all be all solution, and that they will automatically wipe anyone who uses the ball method. It's as if they think that if you are balled up, you have zero skill and are a pug...

This stuff was all used far before anyone ever started this crusade against AoE caps, the only problem now is that pugs aren't straggling around as much, no dynamic ulti gen and the damage mitigation nerfs make it a lot harder to kill numbers larger than your own. So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

It's also funny when people *** about AoE caps run single target builds.....and the people that used to run in these so called ball groups and now act like they are somehow superior and above it all....

It's definetly "the" solution, but it will help togheter with other changes. Honestly i still think no caps and dynamic ultimate regen would be the fix.

It's "the" solution if your looking to wipe bad players.

I don't think there should be completely uncapped damage, but I'd like to see AoE caps changed to the first 12 or so take full damage instead of 6, and something other than this *** poor excuse for an ulti gen system as well.

Sorry, i meant to write; "not the solution". My bad. Bad players usualy dont turtle up much, its guild groups that do that.

Ah alright, I gotcha. Yeah the good guilds that use the ball method will not be affected by any of this, they always figure out the new "meta" and progress forward.

Manoekin · January 2016

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

I would not say no one cares - it´s worse. They feel the need to have them but don´t want to admit it.

That´s why there is discussions on caps where @Wrobel does not come back to participate in a discussion he created himself. Instead he´s sending Gina to tell us they´ll eventually create another discussion when he´s truely ready to communicate about the topic.

I truely believe he´s miscast for the position he´s in. Someone who clearely has no clue about any form of pvp can´t be the lead of combat/ability design in a game that offers pve and pvp.

and some off you know the *** better? anyone wants to Change something and doesnt even think how it will end if anything will be changed.

anyone Claims it was better back then without caps, well mby, but back we also got softcaps and we didnt got insta prox.

if you remove the cap right now the game will end in a disaster.

just think about Shootingstar, you get 13 ulti for any target hit, with a cap of 6 it will be max 72 ulti, now think if you hit 15 Players. Shootingstar spam inc

And then you could spam meteors on that turteling group until they got forced to spread out from the AoE OR until they die. I dont see a ptoblem with that. Besides, its not like full groups of 24 already rely on fall damage from meteors as their only win condition. lol.

This, if they ever fix fall damage. Wayyyy back like 1.1 or 1.2 Dyvith used the Shooting Star morph before I had seen anyone really using it. It didn't do great damage back then like it did now, but he was able to spam it on groups because the ulti gain wasn't capped. He wiped a full raid because they stayed stacked long enough for 5+ meteors to get dropped on them from one guy. I don't agree with it being uncapped, or any secondary effects being uncapped though.

What the game had back then and is missing now is area denial. Ever since no ground oils I've been asking for something back in the game either via siege or ability where the enemy goes, "okay, we don't want to run through that gauntlet let's take a different approach". Instead now you just rapids and move through whatever is in your way until you get to where you want to be. Ground oils were tough to deal with but at least there was a strategy to deal with them, and anything that comes next has to be that way also.

Takllin · January 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Everyone knows it and no one cares :'(

I would not say no one cares - it´s worse. They feel the need to have them but don´t want to admit it.

That´s why there is discussions on caps where @Wrobel does not come back to participate in a discussion he created himself. Instead he´s sending Gina to tell us they´ll eventually create another discussion when he´s truely ready to communicate about the topic.

I truely believe he´s miscast for the position he´s in. Someone who clearely has no clue about any form of pvp can´t be the lead of combat/ability design in a game that offers pve and pvp.

and some off you know the *** better? anyone wants to Change something and doesnt even think how it will end if anything will be changed.

anyone Claims it was better back then without caps, well mby, but back we also got softcaps and we didnt got insta prox.

if you remove the cap right now the game will end in a disaster.

just think about Shootingstar, you get 13 ulti for any target hit, with a cap of 6 it will be max 72 ulti, now think if you hit 15 Players. Shootingstar spam inc

And then you could spam meteors on that turteling group until they got forced to spread out from the AoE OR until they die. I dont see a ptoblem with that. Besides, its not like full groups of 24 already rely on fall damage from meteors as their only win condition. lol.

This, if they ever fix fall damage. Wayyyy back like 1.1 or 1.2 Dyvith used the Shooting Star morph before I had seen anyone really using it. It didn't do great damage back then like it did now, but he was able to spam it on groups because the ulti gain wasn't capped. He wiped a full raid because they stayed stacked long enough for 5+ meteors to get dropped on them from one guy. I don't agree with it being uncapped, or any secondary effects being uncapped though.

What the game had back then and is missing now is area denial. Ever since no ground oils I've been asking for something back in the game either via siege or ability where the enemy goes, "okay, we don't want to run through that gauntlet let's take a different approach". Instead now you just rapids and move through whatever is in your way until you get to where you want to be. Ground oils were tough to deal with but at least there was a strategy to deal with them, and anything that comes next has to be that way also.

It's gotten progressively worse with this too. A few updates ago you might lose half your group doing that, but now you'd be hard to find a time when you lose more than three or four.

CtrlAltDlt · January 2016

I'm sure they will stay in place, Mr. Wrobel's failure to respond to our petition to remove them confirms this. It doesn't even make sense why the cap is there in the first place. That's why I'm looking forward to other games coming out soon.

Zheg · January 2016

Jhunn wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

So people are pissed they can't wipe what they could before, and they chose AoE caps as the target for their anger.

People are pissed because a 60 man zerg won't only get a statistical advantage (numbers, more damage, healing, ultis) but also an advantage in damage reduction just because they're more people. It doesn't make sense.

I play every night, for almost all of the night, on the main NA campaign and legitimate 60 man zergs are NOT common. Yes, every alliance has reached that once in a while, but this is not the norm, it really isn't - and if you can't believe that, you need to go learn how to count.

Furthermore, the times when I do see 60+ people in a monster zerg, they are usually in a clustereff and just inundate the keep, you don't get 60 people in an 8 meter radius any more, it just doesn't happen. The last time I saw keep fights like that was back in 1.5 when we had a different kind of lag where skills wouldn't fire off and everyone and their mother just stacked on the flags because no one could die.

People keep saying, 'oh, without aoe caps, my one ult bomb would wipe all of them' - yeah, maybe if your ult bomb had a 40 meter radius.

I don't have a much better solution, but I see aoe cap removal and dynamic ult gen return being a disaster simply because I'd expect people to spec even further into damage and the TTK would just disintegrate. Dynamic ult gen right now would also probably just end up with everyone running bats, and I already feel obligated to run that as an ult because of how good it is. With dynamic ult gen, other than the token barrier/negate/nova, everyone would probably be forced to run bats. That doesn't sound like a solution to me, that sounds like a new problem.

Jhunn · January 2016

@Zheg Wha? Where did I say they were common? 60 was used as an example because that's the maximum for the current AOE 6/24/30 sh*t thing.