Anyone feel that Keeps are flipped far to Quickly? (and other thoughts)

revonine · December 2015

My thoughts from lying here unable to move after a large Christmas dinner:
Honestly I think in it's current state keeps are flipped quick, too quick. For a quick example AD flipped one of our keeps and we quickly gathered ourselves rode out and before they even had a chance to repair the walls we forced ourselves in and flipped the keep back within TWO minutes.

Keeps FEEL like they have little value at the moment and I fear with the re-introduction of forward camps they will be flipped even quicker than they were before. For a start FIRE every single NPC guard in Cyrodill for their utter incompetence. The second a keep get's flagged the guards patrolling the perimeter and along the outer walls should flock to the point where it is seiged and attempt to defend it. I also feel keep walls should be strengthen somewhat especially with the upcoming siege buff. If the walls aren't adjusted too the time it takes for a breach to form is only going to get shorter.

WHO designed the landscape for Cyrodill especially around Rayles, Glademist and Chalman? I'm so sick of the enemy firing siege from cliffs a half a mile away completely immune to counter siege. While it is cool and somewhat strategic, why don't more keeps have this because it's pretty unfair to DC. All the while keeps like Arrius are very easily heavily defend-able positions.

Lastly, Cyrodill BADLY needs more objectives. The most entertaining battles I've ever had were at Alessia Bridge. Its' designed to be a natural chokepoint and a strategic position to try and hold. Why not go one step further and make it so you can actually capture it? Why not the milestone gates aswell? Make holding them contribute towards the campaign. I'm also hoping something PvP related comes to the existing towns in Cyrodill too, make them capturable. How about the longer you hold the towns the greater the rewards you can receive from doing the quests there?

Thanks for reading.

Valencer · December 2015

The whole alliance war thing feels pointless at the moment.

Used to hide in the non-veteran campaign because of that back in 1.6. People couldn't stack damage like crazy so NPCs weren't the pushovers they are right now. Keeps (and even resources/outposts) were highly defensible with strong NPC support and defenders could hold them even while outnumbered. It made the whole campaign feel a lot more meaningful, and taking a keep actually felt like it meant something... not a "Oh well, it might flip back in 2-5 minutes anyway" moment like it is now.

It also made nightcapping really difficult, because defenders (again) actually had a chance when outnumbered. Imagine nights devolving into small skirmishes and duels, because keeps are too hard to take when there's even a few defenders online. That's what it was like and it was beautiful. You could go to bed at 12 and in all likelihood the map would still be the same when you woke up at 8, if you cared enough to log in that much.

Fast forward to today, the non-veteran alliance war is exactly the same thing as vet. 2 people can flip a keep when left unchecked so off-hour capping is through the roof. Any decent group just blows through the keep's defenses in record time. NPCs drop dead in seconds because it's the same burst meta as vet. It's really difficult to give a damn about any of it anymore.

My point is, defending keeps and other objectives is hilariously pointless at the moment because there's no real advantage to doing so anymore. Buffing NPCs by a fuckton and maybe re-evaluating some of the keep lay-outs (including NPCs) would go a long way to helping make it more worthwhile. Im sure some people will get their jimmies rustled by the thought of some PvE in their PvP but the truth is it created an unique, stable experience in the old Blackwater Blade that the game just doesn't offer anymore.

CatchMeTrolling · December 2015

Keeps have worth the imperial keeps that is, what I do think is they should buff the npcs and make them get a temporary buff when you're outnumbered by a certain amount. Plus their mechanics need to be changed such as being attacked but Sir Brandon is patrolling the castle like nothing is happening.

revonine · December 2015

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Plus their mechanics need to be changed such as being attacked but Sir Brandon is patrolling the castle like nothing is happening.

This irks me to such an extent that I had to specifically mention it in the OP. Perimeter guards patrolling past a massive breach and they just stroll past like nothing is wrong lol.

Valencer · December 2015

It's kind of the same thing with the gate guards, honestly. Massive battle in the courtyard around the corner and they just stand there looking pretty guarding the gate unless an enemy player gets too close.

The thing is, it doesnt really make a difference if all of the keep guards rush into battle when a decently sized enemy group is near because theyll be dead in seconds anyway with a bit of AoE spam.

Cathexis · December 2015

Actually keeps lasted much much longer with forward camps because FCs did two things:

(1) They allowed you to reinforce burst keeps by putting them down within the outer walls.

(2) Both sides would have infinite defenders and attackers based on the number of FCs they could put down.

Jade1986 · December 2015

Honestly the NPC guards need a little buff in my honest opinion, they are pretty much useless at the moment. Maybe even add in some npc siege protection, or some more archers along the walls, or SOMETHING to make it more difficult, right now they will just wander around aimlessly if you stay away instead of going after the attacking force. I mean, you THINK they would attack all at once to pressure the attackers, but no, they act like everything is peachy and just lolligag around.

AshTal · December 2015

I agree with OP. I don't know the solution but right now the big issue is keeps falling before defenders get there, a small group of players who fight and win 1 v 10 and can't be killed. Would like it if keeps are better, harder to take and worth more.

Jura23 · December 2015

I think, as a first step, they should seriously buff NPCs of the last two keeps closest to base for each faction so it's easier to defend them even being outnumbered. I hate it when one side flips the entire map and keeps it that way. Happened on my home campaign recently, 6 days before end, so obviously nobody's gonna switch, but most enemies are gone and there is nothing to do.

Tomato · December 2015

Yes. It's a joke now in cyrodil with how quickly they flip.

ChrisXO · December 2015

revonine wrote: »

WHO designed the landscape for Cyrodill especially around Rayles, Glademist and Chalman? I'm so sick of the enemy firing siege from cliffs a half a mile away completely immune to counter siege. While it is cool and somewhat strategic, why don't more keeps have this because it's pretty unfair to DC. All the while keeps like Arrius are very easily heavily defend-able positions.

See also: Faregyl from the lumbermill, and Alessia from the farm. Looks like all the factions had the same short-sighted designer!

At least the postern doors are well made. Those things are unbreakable.

SmalltalkJava · December 2015

Keeps drop way easy. There is very little siege action really going on. I was expecting long battles with ebb and flow. that is not what i found in eso.

Zyle · December 2015

laced wrote: »

Honestly the NPC guards need a little buff in my honest opinion, they are pretty much useless at the moment. Maybe even add in some npc siege protection, or some more archers along the walls, or SOMETHING to make it more difficult, right now they will just wander around aimlessly if you stay away instead of going after the attacking force. I mean, you THINK they would attack all at once to pressure the attackers, but no, they act like everything is peachy and just lolligag around.

They should make the NPCs ball up together on the flag while spamming purge and steel tornado! Also, fully upgraded keeps mean NPCs dragon leap at you in unison.

Master_Fluff · January 2016

Yes, keeps flip too easy these days. As do resources. I still remember my first resource capture back in March. Tower mages hit like an 88 mm anti-tank gun in those days and you needed loads of players to take them down. Now? You can solo them. Not all that exciting anymore. Resource capturing feels more like something we have to do just for the transit to work.