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Role balance suggestion

shugg
shugg
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Hello

Quick reason for this post:
I enjoy the game, both PVE and PVP and like many have I understand that there is imbalance in the game. I’m not talking Class as this is another subject that @Wrobel is dealing with. The issue is Role balance.

The imbalance comes with champion points. This is because you can have the skill points to select pvp skills and pve skill, lets face it attribute points are normally all in stam or magic (maybe 10 in health) even for end game tanks like myself.

There is 3 aspects to the game PVP, PVE group and PVE solo:
As a DPS you can do all three aspects without any champ changes and still be competitive.
As a healer you can do PVE group and PVP as a healer but will struggle in PVE solo such as vet maelstrom arena, and as the game progress mobs will get tougher or dps will be one shot everything soon..
As a tank you can do PVE group only.

Now I’m not saying all should do the same damage as that would be stupid, what I am suggesting is re balance mechanic around the rolls.

What I suggest:
To make this work there has to be a cost in some way, a trade off or it will make pvp more directed towards damage.
We use the role selection to lock in a role with bonus:

Tank – while being hit by spells or physical attacks you gain 5% weapon/spell damage. This stacks 5 times and lasts for 10seconds. While in combat all regen is halved (this should not effect pve as we don’t rely on it and should put of dps from selecting this roll)

DPS – While in combat all regen is increased by x% and after each kill you perform yourself you recover x% of your highest attribute. (I didn’t want to put anything down to increase damage as that would stop the value of this post; however I wanted to focus on sustained dps)

Healer – After a healing yourself or others from below 50% to above the targets health with a direct heal you gain increase Spell damage of 25% for 5 seconds. (With is I wanted to play to a healers strength and not have dps cast ward then dps, hence the short time and the 50%. Im also on PS4 so dont see numbers incase the 50% is not right)

All values can be changed they are just place holders as i dont know value of the impacts (again on PS4 so dont see numbers :))

Now there has to be a cost – to switch roles it costs maybe 3000g each time or a cool down of x amount of time.
There are bound to be better ideas but I wanted to stay away from having these roles linked to armour or weapons, for example a healer temp can still pick healer role and wear 5 heavy and use s&b.
Summary
Tank and healer damage goes up so the can enjoy all the game has to offer and not just bits. DPS gets an attractive increase (this may change as I don’t dps and you may have a better balance suggestion).

People will be able to have more commitment to there role the enjoy and not get punished for a choice the game needs to function. (please dont suggest just role a dps. Some of us enjoy tanking but also want to experiance the whole game) - this also may be detrimentle when pvp arena comes out or mobs get buffed in future dlc to such a degree that tanks and healers carnt even pve solo

I have also asked zos in Ask us anthing to see if this is being worked on, hoping @ZOS_GinaBruno will pass it on.
This post was inspired by @HeroOfNone for his feed back he is giving.

Thanks for reading.
Necrosis
  • HeroOfNone
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    It's not a bad though, but you're going to lose folks that want to saddle more than one role. A similar idea to this though would be passive slots in you champion tree, so you can add or remove certain champion point passives without cost. Minģmaxing though you'll probably still see a lot of DPS builds doing everything.
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  • shugg
    shugg
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    yer the cost idea was in there to stop people switching to tank just for the dps bonus in pvp - but if the regen debuff stops them and they go for the dps role then there is no reason to put a cost on it. its trying to get more sustain for dps rather than bust.
  • Lightninvash
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    I like the idea but I feel like you will get hit with negativity due to the Play as you want idea everyone has. some want to be a tank/dps or healer/dps. By focusing on one role some peoples set ups will have to change and they probably will not like that. But that's the only thing I can see wrong with the idea.
  • shugg
    shugg
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    I like the idea but I feel like you will get hit with negativity due to the Play as you want idea everyone has. some want to be a tank/dps or healer/dps. By focusing on one role some peoples set ups will have to change and they probably will not like that. But that's the only thing I can see wrong with the idea.

    I was thinking that through out writing it or at least people saying go roll a dps. however with this u can still be 100% tank or healer but will also, if you choose too be able to tank in pvp (with a buff to HA) or complete vet arena as a healer- at the moment we dont have that choice which is a shame.

    in pvp with this i dont expect to kill a skilled dps but be able to hold my own against some one with equal skill or be able to get past some of vet arena stages without having to redo all my champ points from tanking. And with future dlc the speed mobs will die to dps will be rediculas meaning zos will need to buff mobs health which then means tanks and healers will sturggle. :)

  • lolo_01b16_ESO
    lolo_01b16_ESO
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    I don't see your idea working.
    For my healer I'd choose the dps role for more magicka reg.
    For my tank I'd choose healer or dps, depending on the fight.
    For my stamina dps I'd choose tank for all fights.
    For my magicka dps I'd choose either tank or healer, depending on which heals are working.
  • shugg
    shugg
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    I don't see your idea working.
    For my healer I'd choose the dps role for more magicka reg.
    For my tank I'd choose healer or dps, depending on the fight.
    For my stamina dps I'd choose tank for all fights.
    For my magicka dps I'd choose either tank or healer, depending on which heals are working.

    but can you see what i was trying to get at, I dont play a dps or healer so i found it difficult to judge how i would get the damage to increase with out increasing the attraction to dps.

    I was looking at doing a trade off with each one but as u mentioned you would go for the tank one as a stam dps? why would you do that with low regen or dont stam dps care about regen?

    i geuss when writing this i considered people using regen more than stacking pure stam/magic - so how would you make each more attrackive to the role?

  • eliisra
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    No, we dont need that. I could picks healer on my nightblade and get 25% more power when sneak attacking. It's a system with to many potential flaws for abuse.

    What we need desperately is dual talent specialization or dual spec's. Most urgent when it comes to CP.

    Why is there no save function for example? Let me at least save my CP settings for PvP, vMA, dps, healing and tanking. I dont mind paying to respec, but doing roughly 2500 manual mouse clicks a week only to do content, where is the user friendly in that?

    Right now I have to change all 501 CP 4-5 times a week. I'm blaming my sore tennis elbow on this crap exclusively.

    There's no way around it either. If I dont run high resistant + blessed in PvP I fricken' explode as a templar healer. If I dont max thaumathurge and go for hardy, elfborn and elemental defender I wont get past stage 5 in vMA. I cant help guild tank more challenging PvE content with any of those setups, so need to change CP all over again because block expertise.

    At least let us have two different CP setups to switch between. This would benefit the entire community, considering how hard it is to find tanks(something I partly blame on CP). Where's the harm in it. More active PvX is a good thing. Right now I have PvP guildies not doing PvE at all, because to poor or cant be bothered to change CP all over again.
  • shugg
    shugg
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    but you only get the +damage as a healer if you heal some one with a direct heal and then it only lasts for 5 seconds, i get what you mean about explotation and i agree its a cp issue - duel spec would fix all this but then u still dont have any tanks in pvp or vet arena.

    we would need something like this or as you say duel spec for champion points before pvp arena or there will be very few tanks around to even do dailies.
  • Defilted
    Defilted
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    Cant this be solved with duel spec option?
    Spec 1 saved for your group PVE
    Spec 2 for your PVP or Solo PVE if you are not a PVPer.
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  • WalkingLegacy
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    First, in a Trinity system no one should be able to do everything.

    Pure dps should melt
    Pure tanks should be close to indestructible
    Pure healers should be able to have tools to heal but getting locked up melts them.

    ESO is a Trinity system gone bad. The devs don't know if they want an MMO or solo content. I mean someone that use to be on the team was quoted with saying that - but even if that was true its clearer than a beautiful day.

    The whole system needs a rework around and champion points need to bite the dust.
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    First, in a Trinity system no one should be able to do everything.

    Pure dps should melt
    Pure tanks should be close to indestructible
    Pure healers should be able to have tools to heal but getting locked up melts them.

    ESO is a Trinity system gone bad. The devs don't know if they want an MMO or solo content. I mean someone that use to be on the team was quoted with saying that - but even if that was true its clearer than a beautiful day.

    The whole system needs a rework around and champion points need to bite the dust.

    If that is what other MMOs are like, then I guess I'll only ever play ESO. I like being able to switch roles on my characters if necessary.
    The Moot Councillor
  • runagate
    runagate
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    HeroOfNone wrote: »
    Minģmaxing

    I agree with what you said, but also love the neologism coinage. This is my word of the day.

  • RAGUNAnoOne
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    No definitely not with that balance almost everyone would max a stat with low regen stat and choose DPS in a sense everyone will have the 25% buff all the time and use the DPS role to make up for lack of regeneration yet healers can still heal and tanks still tank.
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  • shugg
    shugg
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    So its to be dps or nothing to enjoy all content, current state a tank carnt pvp... And alot of focus on the bonus i have suggested, why not look at what we could change it too rather than just saying no
  • WalkingLegacy
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    AlnilamE wrote: »
    First, in a Trinity system no one should be able to do everything.

    Pure dps should melt
    Pure tanks should be close to indestructible
    Pure healers should be able to have tools to heal but getting locked up melts them.

    ESO is a Trinity system gone bad. The devs don't know if they want an MMO or solo content. I mean someone that use to be on the team was quoted with saying that - but even if that was true its clearer than a beautiful day.

    The whole system needs a rework around and champion points need to bite the dust.

    If that is what other MMOs are like, then I guess I'll only ever play ESO. I like being able to switch roles on my characters if necessary.

    Switching roles is great. I didn't say anything about being stuck in a role. I hate to say this, it kills me a little, but it should be more like WoW where we can have one other spec to switch to on the fly with an auto gear swap.

    One spec to rule them all though? Not for MMO games...
    Edited by WalkingLegacy on December 31, 2015 5:06PM
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    shugg wrote: »
    So its to be dps or nothing to enjoy all content, current state a tank carnt pvp... And alot of focus on the bonus i have suggested, why not look at what we could change it too rather than just saying no

    Why do you say a tank can't PvP? Are you talking about solo? I'm not too familiar with PvP yet, but I was running with my PvP guild the other day and they were talking about having tanks do certain things when they have them in the group.
    The Moot Councillor
  • shugg
    shugg
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    At the moment dps can ignore all ur armour and dps u down very fast. 1 v1 even against a standard player u will struggle and with cp and no soft caps damage dealers will just extend the gap. In a zerg u can try stun the healers but again soon as a dps focus u ur done.

    A dps should kill a tank but it should take some time or at least allow the tank to tank at the moment it feels like free ap for them, i have to switch to 2h and try dps people however again cp makes the difference.

    But also consider mealsorm arena, its great content however trying to do it as a tank in my v16 gear is like bashing my head against a wall, content shouldnt be dps only even when i had to pay for it. Love tanking and the guild has me tanking raids and daily pledges so respec every time is to much.
    Edited by shugg on December 31, 2015 5:47PM
  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    Nice. But what I see as a major problem is damage has no cap yet defense does. Like at most you can mitigate 30%-60% of the damage and that's top tier end game stuff with a shield and 400+ CP that does that. But for damage you can just stack on stack on stack attack buffs such as major and minor brutality weapon enchantments jewelry enchantments set bonuses and so on.

    Like I understand that a tank can't mitigate 100% damage cause then that be taking no damage and that be... well can't call it OP but call it divine tier powered which no programmer wants in a game other wise you end up with those modded spells you downloaded in Skyrim that allowed you to kill a entire town or city in 1 cast.

    But back on topic it's either defense (being mitigating and resistance) needs to buffed up (no not including damage shields or roll dodging cause there already OP as is) or damage needs a cap like defense. But then players would cry about "oh can't kill in VMA" or "can't one burst gank this guy" and so on.
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