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Champion Point Question about Diminishing Returns
So, saw a video online the other day on a stamina NB. The guy that posted the video mentioned in passing that the Champion Point ability "Warlord" in the thief constellation has diminishing returns after 6% stamina cost reduction (roughly 20 points into the trait). I was just wondering if this is true or not. If it is, I'll most likely put more into stamina recovery. Keep in mind, I only have 198 Champion Points, so I still have to be kind of picky about where I spend my points. Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, saw a video online the other day on a stamina NB. The guy that posted the video mentioned in passing that the Champion Point ability "Warlord" in the thief constellation has diminishing returns after 6% stamina cost reduction (roughly 20 points into the trait). I was just wondering if this is true or not. If it is, I'll most likely put more into stamina recovery. Keep in mind, I only have 198 Champion Points, so I still have to be kind of picky about where I spend my points. Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
It's true in cases where you have multiple instances of cost reduction. Say you have the full 25% from the tree, it will give you 25% if that is the only reduction you have. If you throw on a cost reduction enchant on your ring, you will not get the full benefit from the passive anymore because you lowered your cost another way. When you equip that ring, if it is supposed to reduce cost by 175 (just a number), you will only so it go down about 170-160 or so because the 25% reduction is from a lower total cost.
I'm unsure if it works this way with multiple % off bonuses(say medium armor and the CP passive), or if it's only when combining that enchant with % off bonuses.
I hope this helps you. Regen is pretty much widely recognized now as being the better stat, and as a NB with the regen bonus passive it makes it even better for you. However, this gives you the option of speccing into something else, as regen goals are easier to reach on a NB than some other classes. Especially since NB abilities are generally very efficient.2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Basically what Manoekin said above.
Every time you add reduction% you are reducing off of a smaller number. So it gets less effective as you go.
But for regeneration, every time you add more % regen you are adding to an even larger number than before, so it just gets better and better.
edit: It is for this reason also that racial/class passives that add % regen have become far better than racial/class passives that lower cost. This was an unfortunate side effect of removing stat caps, among other things.Edited by danno8 on December 28, 2015 5:44PM1 -
Asayre✭✭✭✭✭
✭I disagree that there is any diminishing returns at any point with the Warlord star. Every 1% increase in the tooltip value of Warlord will decrease your ability cost by the same amount. That is to say increasing it from 10% to 11% reduces the cost by the same amount as increasing it from 2% to 3%, bar the fact that it takes more points going from 10 to 11% than 2 to 3%. This is because the ability cost formula at V16 is
The Base Cost of an ability is the tooltip cost value, without any points in Warlord and without any equipment or skills that provide either a percentage or flat cost reduction, divided by 1.1625. For instance, the tooltip cost value for Fire Rune is 3654. The Base Cost for Fire Rune is then 3143. Flat Cost Reduction is typically in the form of enchantments on jewellery and % Cost Reduction comes from skills and passives.
If your question was actually about what is a good distribution between Warlord and Mooncalf, further information is required such as skills and passives that affect your regen, average ability cost, ability use per second, how many shards you can get, etc if you want a more accurate answer.Edited by Asayre on December 28, 2015 11:57PMReference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I disagree that there is any diminishing returns at any point with the Warlord star. Every 1% increase in the tooltip value of Warlord will decrease your ability cost by the same amount. That is to say increasing it from 10% to 11% reduces the cost by the same amount as increasing it from 2% to 3%, bar the fact that it takes more points going from 10 to 11% than 2 to 3%. This is because the ability cost formula at V16 is
The Base Cost of an ability is the tooltip cost value, without any points in Warlord and without any equipment or skills that provide either a percentage or flat cost reduction, divided by 1.1625. For instance, the tooltip cost value for Fire Rune is 3654. The Base Cost for Fire Rune is then 3143. Flat Cost Reduction is typically in the form of enchantments on jewellery and % Cost Reduction comes from skills and passives.
If your question was actually about what is a good distribution between Warlord and Mooncalf, further information is required such as skills and passives that affect your regen, average ability cost, ability use per second, how many shards you can get, etc if you want a more accurate answer.
I do believe they are referring to using warlord in conjunction with, as an example, a cost reduction glyph. The deminishing returns is in reference to the fact that cost reduction percentages are based on an already reduced number.
Example: cost is 1000, warlord reduces it by say 10%, making it 900, and now comes cost reduction glyph of 10%, reducing it by 90 to 810.
Even though warlord and glyph both stat reduce cost by 10%, one reduces cost by 100 and the other by 90. Thus the deminishing returns.
It works the same way with regen. Say you increase by 10% instead reduce in the above example, one inceases by 100 and the other by 110 (even though it states 10% on both)
They are not refering to the single reduction stat.0 -
Asayre✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am saying that Warlord does not reduce the flat cost reduction offered by jewelry enchantments.
Example: Base cost is 1000, warlord reduces it by 10% to 900. Flat cost reduction from jewelry reduces it by 203 to 697.
It doesn't matter whether Warlord reduces it by 10% or 15% the flat cost reduction is applied after.
I suppose you could view the %Cost reduction (left most term) from skills and passives to have diminishing returns but I see it as a fixed thing. If you have 5 pieces of medium armour you'll always have 5 pieces of medium armour so the term (1.1625-%Cost Reduction) will always be 1.0125 for you and can be treated as a constant.Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am saying that Warlord does not reduce the flat cost reduction offered by jewelry enchantments.
Example: Base cost is 1000, warlord reduces it by 10% to 900. Flat cost reduction from jewelry reduces it by 203 to 697.
It doesn't matter whether Warlord reduces it by 10% or 15% the flat cost reduction is applied after.
I suppose you could view the %Cost reduction (left most term) from skills and passives to have diminishing returns but I see it as a fixed thing. If you have 5 pieces of medium armour you'll always have 5 pieces of medium armour so the term (1.1625-%Cost Reduction) will always be 1.0125 for you and can be treated as a constant.
Good job walking us through this!
The way I understand it is as follows:
- start with base tool tip
- cost reduction Champion points reduce the initial tooltip cost with a percentage.
- jewelry cost reduction subracts the cost further. This cost reduction is a flat fee number and not a percentage.
Does the cost reduction in set gear work the same way as jewelry ?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭First with 100 points in cost reduction it's only 16 percent recovery goes to 25 what he was talking about is that each point in cost reduction starts at 1 percent then .6 the. Stays at .3 or .2 for a while then u only get .1 for the last 50 or 60 points. But it depends on your build I'm a stamsorc so I have reduced cost of abilities by 5 percent and then have my champion reduced cost maxed at 16 and my skills are so cheep it makes up for lower recovery. But if you have lots of recovery passives and have high recovery you get more benefit from more recovery from champion points0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So, saw a video online the other day on a stamina NB. The guy that posted the video mentioned in passing that the Champion Point ability "Warlord" in the thief constellation has diminishing returns after 6% stamina cost reduction (roughly 20 points into the trait). I was just wondering if this is true or not. If it is, I'll most likely put more into stamina recovery. Keep in mind, I only have 198 Champion Points, so I still have to be kind of picky about where I spend my points. Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
It's true in cases where you have multiple instances of cost reduction. Say you have the full 25% from the tree, it will give you 25% if that is the only reduction you have. If you throw on a cost reduction enchant on your ring, you will not get the full benefit from the passive anymore because you lowered your cost another way. When you equip that ring, if it is supposed to reduce cost by 175 (just a number), you will only so it go down about 170-160 or so because the 25% reduction is from a lower total cost.
I'm unsure if it works this way with multiple % off bonuses(say medium armor and the CP passive), or if it's only when combining that enchant with % off bonuses.
I hope this helps you. Regen is pretty much widely recognized now as being the better stat, and as a NB with the regen bonus passive it makes it even better for you. However, this gives you the option of speccing into something else, as regen goals are easier to reach on a NB than some other classes. Especially since NB abilities are generally very efficient.
@HickGamer @Manoekin @danno8
Warlord maxes out at ~16% not 25%. Mooncalf(Regen) Maxes out at 25%.
The only diminishing returns are on the benefit you get for each additional point you put into the ability just like every other ability (I.E 1% for the first point down to .1% for some of the last points).
Champion System Cost Reduction is *not* impacted by cost reduction enchants but it is reduced in effectiveness with the total other cost reduction percentages you have (Medium Armor, Set bonuses).
As Mano says, Mooncalf *is* more powerful but only if you take advantage of it. This is primarily because Warlord doesn't decrease the cost of Dodge Roll and Break free but Mooncalf regens all sources of stamina consumption.
If you're not running any stamina regen on your sets and you have low overall CPs then I would suggest Warlord over Mooncalf although you should put 5-10 points into Mooncalf regardless.I am saying that Warlord does not reduce the flat cost reduction offered by jewelry enchantments.
Example: Base cost is 1000, warlord reduces it by 10% to 900. Flat cost reduction from jewelry reduces it by 203 to 697.
It doesn't matter whether Warlord reduces it by 10% or 15% the flat cost reduction is applied after.
I suppose you could view the %Cost reduction (left most term) from skills and passives to have diminishing returns but I see it as a fixed thing. If you have 5 pieces of medium armour you'll always have 5 pieces of medium armour so the term (1.1625-%Cost Reduction) will always be 1.0125 for you and can be treated as a constant.
Good job walking us through this!
The way I understand it is as follows:
- start with base tool tip
- cost reduction Champion points reduce the initial tooltip cost with a percentage.
- jewelry cost reduction subracts the cost further. This cost reduction is a flat fee number and not a percentage.
Does the cost reduction in set gear work the same way as jewelry ?
@Asayre is correct.
If you want a laymans explanation of how the math works it is like this.
Start with the base cost.
It is reduced directly by cost reduction jewelry.
Non-champion point cost reduction reduces this (and is thus made less effective by cost reduction enchants).
Champion System Cost reduction reduces the remainder by a percentage of what the cost would be if you had no cost reduction enchants. It makes no sense why it works this way but it does.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, saw a video online the other day on a stamina NB. The guy that posted the video mentioned in passing that the Champion Point ability "Warlord" in the thief constellation has diminishing returns after 6% stamina cost reduction (roughly 20 points into the trait). I was just wondering if this is true or not. If it is, I'll most likely put more into stamina recovery. Keep in mind, I only have 198 Champion Points, so I still have to be kind of picky about where I spend my points. Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
It's true in cases where you have multiple instances of cost reduction. Say you have the full 25% from the tree, it will give you 25% if that is the only reduction you have. If you throw on a cost reduction enchant on your ring, you will not get the full benefit from the passive anymore because you lowered your cost another way. When you equip that ring, if it is supposed to reduce cost by 175 (just a number), you will only so it go down about 170-160 or so because the 25% reduction is from a lower total cost.
I'm unsure if it works this way with multiple % off bonuses(say medium armor and the CP passive), or if it's only when combining that enchant with % off bonuses.
I hope this helps you. Regen is pretty much widely recognized now as being the better stat, and as a NB with the regen bonus passive it makes it even better for you. However, this gives you the option of speccing into something else, as regen goals are easier to reach on a NB than some other classes. Especially since NB abilities are generally very efficient.
@HickGamer @Manoekin @danno8
Warlord maxes out at ~16% not 25%. Mooncalf(Regen) Maxes out at 25%.
The only diminishing returns are on the benefit you get for each additional point you put into the ability just like every other ability (I.E 1% for the first point down to .1% for some of the last points).
Champion System Cost Reduction is *not* impacted by cost reduction enchants but it is reduced in effectiveness with the total other cost reduction percentages you have (Medium Armor, Set bonuses).
As Mano says, Mooncalf *is* more powerful but only if you take advantage of it. This is primarily because Warlord doesn't decrease the cost of Dodge Roll and Break free but Mooncalf regens all sources of stamina consumption.
If you're not running any stamina regen on your sets and you have low overall CPs then I would suggest Warlord over Mooncalf although you should put 5-10 points into Mooncalf regardless.I am saying that Warlord does not reduce the flat cost reduction offered by jewelry enchantments.
Example: Base cost is 1000, warlord reduces it by 10% to 900. Flat cost reduction from jewelry reduces it by 203 to 697.
It doesn't matter whether Warlord reduces it by 10% or 15% the flat cost reduction is applied after.
I suppose you could view the %Cost reduction (left most term) from skills and passives to have diminishing returns but I see it as a fixed thing. If you have 5 pieces of medium armour you'll always have 5 pieces of medium armour so the term (1.1625-%Cost Reduction) will always be 1.0125 for you and can be treated as a constant.
Good job walking us through this!
The way I understand it is as follows:
- start with base tool tip
- cost reduction Champion points reduce the initial tooltip cost with a percentage.
- jewelry cost reduction subracts the cost further. This cost reduction is a flat fee number and not a percentage.
Does the cost reduction in set gear work the same way as jewelry ?
@Asayre is correct.
If you want a laymans explanation of how the math works it is like this.
Start with the base cost.
It is reduced directly by cost reduction jewelry.
Non-champion point cost reduction reduces this (and is thus made less effective by cost reduction enchants).
Champion System Cost reduction reduces the remainder by a percentage of what the cost would be if you had no cost reduction enchants. It makes no sense why it works this way but it does.
Thanks for clearing it up :P0 -
Hi everyone. Sorry for not re-posting for a while, been kinda busy lol. Thanks for all the advice. To clarify, the point of my original post was to figure out which I should spend my points on. After reading through, I think I'll just spend some gold and try all into Mooncalf, and see what happens. If you were curious about my specific build, I don't know how to link my build here, but I can give you a brief run down of some of my stats:
These are some of my un-buffed stats:
Max Stamina - 22350 (all 64 Attribute Points into Stamina)
Stamina Recovery - 781
Champion Points - Total-198, 66 into Warlord (12.5% cost reduction)
7 Pieces of Medium Armor and all Medium Armor Passives
Redgard Class with all Passives
All jewelry enchanted with 203 cost reduction glyphs
No stamina recovery or cost reduction on my armor
Hope this helps to give you a better idea of what I'm dealing with here. In a long fight, I run out of stamina pretty quick even with all the cost reduction, mainly because of all the dodge rolling, so, that's one big plus to Mooncalf. Like I said, I'll play around with it for a while and let you guys know what I find out. Thanks again for your help.
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hi everyone. Sorry for not re-posting for a while, been kinda busy lol. Thanks for all the advice. To clarify, the point of my original post was to figure out which I should spend my points on. After reading through, I think I'll just spend some gold and try all into Mooncalf, and see what happens. If you were curious about my specific build, I don't know how to link my build here, but I can give you a brief run down of some of my stats:
These are some of my un-buffed stats:
Max Stamina - 22350 (all 64 Attribute Points into Stamina)
Stamina Recovery - 781
Champion Points - Total-198, 66 into Warlord (12.5% cost reduction)
7 Pieces of Medium Armor and all Medium Armor Passives
Redgard Class with all Passives
All jewelry enchanted with 203 cost reduction glyphs
No stamina recovery or cost reduction on my armor
Hope this helps to give you a better idea of what I'm dealing with here. In a long fight, I run out of stamina pretty quick even with all the cost reduction, mainly because of all the dodge rolling, so, that's one big plus to Mooncalf. Like I said, I'll play around with it for a while and let you guys know what I find out. Thanks again for your help.
@HickGamer
With your stamina recovery so low I would advise against putting more than 5 or so points into Mooncalf as you'll actually become less efficient. Warlord in your case will benefit you the most.
I'm surprised that your Stamina and stats are so low to be honest. Are you using V15 blue Health/stam food? As a Redguard you'll benefit more by maximizing your stam since the stamina return for your passive is based on your stamina pool. Ensuring you're proccing that every 4 (or is it 5?) seconds will help supplement your lost stamina. Successive dodge rolls are prohibitively expensive. If you're running into issues with stamina using that build it is likely you've picked up some bad habits you need to break. I did the same thing on my NB in 1.6 and it took me awhile to adjust.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
@Ezareth
With the exception of my chest piece, I'm wearing all v14 epic gear. 5 piece Hunding's Rage, 4 piece Night Mother's. I use the Infused trait for my 3 big pieces of gear (head, chest, and legs) the rest I go devines. I do use v15 bi-stat food (health and stamina). I also use the Warrior Mundos stone for the weapon power. I know this my not be the best to use, but it works pretty well. The only other Mundus stone that may benefit me would be Shadow for the increased crit damage. I may try that later. For now, I guess I need to work on figuring out what "bad habits" I may be using, because that is very possible. I'm not a hardcore gamer, just casual for now, so I'm not trying to min max my character to death, just trying to get to where I can run non-vet Malestrum Arena without dying 100 times lol. Is there a way I can link my character to this forum? If so, I can do that, because honestly, I'm sure there's a lot I could be doing better. Thanks for the input about Mooncalf though, now that I think of it, that does make sense. I'm going to try to find a good CP grind spot and farm the hell out of it for a few days while I tweak my build.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Ezareth
With the exception of my chest piece, I'm wearing all v14 epic gear. 5 piece Hunding's Rage, 4 piece Night Mother's. I use the Infused trait for my 3 big pieces of gear (head, chest, and legs) the rest I go devines. I do use v15 bi-stat food (health and stamina). I also use the Warrior Mundos stone for the weapon power. I know this my not be the best to use, but it works pretty well. The only other Mundus stone that may benefit me would be Shadow for the increased crit damage. I may try that later. For now, I guess I need to work on figuring out what "bad habits" I may be using, because that is very possible. I'm not a hardcore gamer, just casual for now, so I'm not trying to min max my character to death, just trying to get to where I can run non-vet Malestrum Arena without dying 100 times lol. Is there a way I can link my character to this forum? If so, I can do that, because honestly, I'm sure there's a lot I could be doing better. Thanks for the input about Mooncalf though, now that I think of it, that does make sense. I'm going to try to find a good CP grind spot and farm the hell out of it for a few days while I tweak my build.
@HickGamer
The primary two bad habits to break are successive dodge rolls (2 in a row is OK when necessary but more than 2 is almost never worth it) and blocking when you don't need to block as if you are blocking when your regen tick happens then you lose that regen tick.
Good habits to form are weaving heavy/medium attacks into your damage rotations to help supplement your stamina gains. I'm a far better Magicka player than I am a stamina player as melee attacks have always been a somewhat uncomfortable concept for me.
I've had success on my Nightblade at ensuring I kill as many enemies as possible on my 2-hand bar so that I get the 30% Battle-frenzy stamina regen proc.
Obviously you know that V14 gear is non-optimal and there is a noticeable increase in stat points for using V16 over V14 gear. The same is true of your weapons...those at least must be V16. I know farming that Briarheart set would probably be a good thing for you to do. I use Hunter Leader and Shade for my own nightblade.
Warrior is definitely not a good Mundus for PvE. You're almost certainly better off going Thief.
How is your Warrior CP distribution?
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
@Ezareth
With the exception of my chest piece, I'm wearing all v14 epic gear. 5 piece Hunding's Rage, 4 piece Night Mother's. I use the Infused trait for my 3 big pieces of gear (head, chest, and legs) the rest I go devines. I do use v15 bi-stat food (health and stamina). I also use the Warrior Mundos stone for the weapon power. I know this my not be the best to use, but it works pretty well. The only other Mundus stone that may benefit me would be Shadow for the increased crit damage. I may try that later. For now, I guess I need to work on figuring out what "bad habits" I may be using, because that is very possible. I'm not a hardcore gamer, just casual for now, so I'm not trying to min max my character to death, just trying to get to where I can run non-vet Malestrum Arena without dying 100 times lol. Is there a way I can link my character to this forum? If so, I can do that, because honestly, I'm sure there's a lot I could be doing better. Thanks for the input about Mooncalf though, now that I think of it, that does make sense. I'm going to try to find a good CP grind spot and farm the hell out of it for a few days while I tweak my build.
@HickGamer
The primary two bad habits to break are successive dodge rolls (2 in a row is OK when necessary but more than 2 is almost never worth it) and blocking when you don't need to block as if you are blocking when your regen tick happens then you lose that regen tick.
Good habits to form are weaving heavy/medium attacks into your damage rotations to help supplement your stamina gains. I'm a far better Magicka player than I am a stamina player as melee attacks have always been a somewhat uncomfortable concept for me.
I've had success on my Nightblade at ensuring I kill as many enemies as possible on my 2-hand bar so that I get the 30% Battle-frenzy stamina regen proc.
Obviously you know that V14 gear is non-optimal and there is a noticeable increase in stat points for using V16 over V14 gear. The same is true of your weapons...those at least must be V16. I know farming that Briarheart set would probably be a good thing for you to do. I use Hunter Leader and Shade for my own nightblade.
Warrior is definitely not a good Mundus for PvE. You're almost certainly better off going Thief.
How is your Warrior CP distribution?
Yea, I had to break the dodge rolling and blocking habits quickly after the changes made to them. Now they are a non-issue. As for the medium/heavy weaving, I'm getting better at it, it is a little clunky, but it works well with my Redgard passive. Lastly, the gear...I just have gotten up to about 150 pieces of leather (forget the actual name). I know you can turn Tel-Var stones into leather, but I'm anti pvp, I'm terrible at it and hate being ganked, so I don't go into IC. I'm not sure how to get the leather I need, but my weapons are v16 epic quality. As for the mundus stone. I already have 65% crit without any buffs, would it be better to go with shadow for extra crit damage, or would you suggest going thief for even more crit chance?0 -
I forgot to mention my Warrior CP distribution. 33 points into Hardy and 33 points into Elemental Defender.Edited by HickGamer on December 30, 2015 2:38PM0
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I've developed a Character Builder spreadsheet that can help solve your problem.
see my previous post about it here forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/238604/new-character-builder-available-for-armor-champion-system#latest
With my character builder you can easily play with your champion points jewelry enchants and armor setups to see the direct impact on ability cost and recovery.
At the bottom of the build sheet look for your final stats and it will give you an idea of how many times you can use an ability until you are out of resources and the time it takes to recover enough to use the ability again.
For my build i've noticed an even split between Mooncalf and Warlord is the best option if i use only weapon damage enchants.
1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Ezareth
With the exception of my chest piece, I'm wearing all v14 epic gear. 5 piece Hunding's Rage, 4 piece Night Mother's. I use the Infused trait for my 3 big pieces of gear (head, chest, and legs) the rest I go devines. I do use v15 bi-stat food (health and stamina). I also use the Warrior Mundos stone for the weapon power. I know this my not be the best to use, but it works pretty well. The only other Mundus stone that may benefit me would be Shadow for the increased crit damage. I may try that later. For now, I guess I need to work on figuring out what "bad habits" I may be using, because that is very possible. I'm not a hardcore gamer, just casual for now, so I'm not trying to min max my character to death, just trying to get to where I can run non-vet Malestrum Arena without dying 100 times lol. Is there a way I can link my character to this forum? If so, I can do that, because honestly, I'm sure there's a lot I could be doing better. Thanks for the input about Mooncalf though, now that I think of it, that does make sense. I'm going to try to find a good CP grind spot and farm the hell out of it for a few days while I tweak my build.
@HickGamer
The primary two bad habits to break are successive dodge rolls (2 in a row is OK when necessary but more than 2 is almost never worth it) and blocking when you don't need to block as if you are blocking when your regen tick happens then you lose that regen tick.
Good habits to form are weaving heavy/medium attacks into your damage rotations to help supplement your stamina gains. I'm a far better Magicka player than I am a stamina player as melee attacks have always been a somewhat uncomfortable concept for me.
I've had success on my Nightblade at ensuring I kill as many enemies as possible on my 2-hand bar so that I get the 30% Battle-frenzy stamina regen proc.
Obviously you know that V14 gear is non-optimal and there is a noticeable increase in stat points for using V16 over V14 gear. The same is true of your weapons...those at least must be V16. I know farming that Briarheart set would probably be a good thing for you to do. I use Hunter Leader and Shade for my own nightblade.
Warrior is definitely not a good Mundus for PvE. You're almost certainly better off going Thief.
How is your Warrior CP distribution?
Yea, I had to break the dodge rolling and blocking habits quickly after the changes made to them. Now they are a non-issue. As for the medium/heavy weaving, I'm getting better at it, it is a little clunky, but it works well with my Redgard passive. Lastly, the gear...I just have gotten up to about 150 pieces of leather (forget the actual name). I know you can turn Tel-Var stones into leather, but I'm anti pvp, I'm terrible at it and hate being ganked, so I don't go into IC. I'm not sure how to get the leather I need, but my weapons are v16 epic quality. As for the mundus stone. I already have 65% crit without any buffs, would it be better to go with shadow for extra crit damage, or would you suggest going thief for even more crit chance?
If you're at 65% crit already then Shadow is likely better than thief. I'm assuming you're a nightblade? (I don't recall you mentioning it anywhere).
I made about 4K stones in 30-40 minutes a few nights ago on my sorc in IC doing strictly PvE. I doubt many players can pull that many but I think 2-3K an hour for a decent player is reasonable. In many low pop compaigns the risk of being ganked is minimal. 4K stones = 80 mats for an armor piece (plus disenchants).
I do daily writs as well which provide a net surplus in V15/V16 mats when you factor in the surveys you get. Those may be a better option if you don't like PvP that mcuh.I forgot to mention my Warrior CP distribution. 33 points into Hardy and 33 points into Elemental Defender.
Sorry I meant your mage, not Warrior. Your warrior distribution isn't bad for PvE. I'd consider putting a few points into thick skinned as well as well as few points into medium armor specialization.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
I may try farming some stones then. I don't know how successful I'm going to be, but everyone I've spoken with says that is by far the most efficient way to farm crafting materials, so, I'll see how it goes, hopefully I won't get torn up too badly
. I thought shadow would be better, will apply that stone as soon as I log on. My Mage distribution is simple; all 66 points go into Mighty for the weapon damage. 0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you're at 65% crit already then Shadow is likely better than thief. I'm assuming you're a nightblade? (I don't recall you mentioning it anywhere).
You do realize that if he drops Thief, his crit will reduce to 54%, right? And with recent changes, it is now said that Thief is better than Shadow above 50%. That whole 50% crit rule went out the window a couple of months ago.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Actually, I have 65% crit without the Thief stone. I posted that number before applying the Thief stone, while I still had Warrior stone.0
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Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you're at 65% crit already then Shadow is likely better than thief. I'm assuming you're a nightblade? (I don't recall you mentioning it anywhere).
You do realize that if he drops Thief, his crit will reduce to 54%, right? And with recent changes, it is now said that Thief is better than Shadow above 50%. That whole 50% crit rule went out the window a couple of months ago.
@Adarklore He would actually drop to @50% Crit if he were using Thief to achieve 65% crit since he is using 4 pieces of divines.
Regardless I don't follow "Rules" as I understand the math behind the game mechanics. Rules are for people who don't want to do the math on their own and I find that they often lead to mistakes, especially when they become outdated as that one has. The math was always different for Nightblades as they already receive a 10% Crit damage bonus passive. Additionally Thief was just nerfed another 1% in the last patch (to 11% base from 12%).
At 65% crit without Thief he's slightly better going with Shadow.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
I switched to shadow earlier today and can tell a decent improvement in small parse dps. I pulled a giant in Wrothgar and a few more mamoths and single target damage is at roughly 11k, just food buff and self buffs. Obviously this isn't accurate because it only took a few seconds to kill each mob, but its more than the 8 or 9k i did last night before switching. I also would rather do the math on my own, just don't know the equations. @ADarklore if you know where I can find them, please post it here or send me a pm with the info. No offense, but I'd much rather figure it out that way than have to ask people to figure it out for me. I appreciate the help all of you have given me on this thread.0
