ralonasan wrote: »

NightRibon23444 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

More fun just to reflect and kill you with your own meteor via Scales!

To me that's more legitimate than just disappearing. If a DK reflects it back. That's a great job on timing. The escape Is ridiculous.

You can't just hit cloak and have meteor miss. Clearly you have never tried to cloak a meteor. It takes a lot better timing than spamming reflect. If a nightblade cloaks too early, or too late they still get hit.

Yup, that's true.

Prabooo wrote: »

1. If invisibility doesn't grant you single shot immunity... then what it is for? AoE's take you out from invisibility, so please: USE THEM.

2. Escaping is not the same as invisibility. When you Escape Bolt you still can be seen, and it is a means to escape. Dark Cloak grants invisibility but is a poor means to escape, if you know how to counter it. Then again, we come to the same point: EQUIP AoE's (at least one).

I play a NB, and Dark Cloak is not a "puss out" skill. The only useful ingredient, specially in PvP, are the morphs.

The main purpose of invisibility is not being seen. Single shot immunity doesn't have to be part of it. Being able to sneak away is enough. Invisibility also gives bonuses to attacks, so there is already plenty of benefit from it without any immunity.

Players should be able to use abilities without a target unless it is something like a gap close that makes no sense without a predetermined target. Unfortunately, that is not the way certain skills work. If they need a target, obviously they can't in practice work against someone who is invisible because you should not be able to target them. The problem is that such skills should not require a target.

For example, should WB have to have a particular target, or should I be able to just do WB into empty space such that it could hit an invisible player? Obviously it would be best if it could hit an invisible target as enemies being invisible should not stop me from being able to attack empty space with the hopes of hitting the hidden target. This becomes problematic with WB, for example, because if I swing it into an area with 2 targets, which would it hit? Normally it hits the target that was selected at cast time. If the target moves out of range, it will cancel WB, even if the other enemy is still in the location. If WB decided who the target was when it was about to make contact, it could make WB a bit too powerful when spammed into groups. But not letting me use such skills against invisible people makes invisibility too powerful.

One thing for sure -- invisibility should not interrupt any skill currently being cast, such as WB. You should have to move to get out of the way. The fact that WB has a clear direction and you often have to move while casting to maintain the proper distance means that invisibility should not matter so long as the NB remains in range.

I suppose the downside of WB into empty space is that you would be extremely vulnerable to counters -- but that seems like real combat to me.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

1. If invisibility doesn't grant you single shot immunity... then what it is for? AoE's take you out from invisibility, so please: USE THEM.

2. Escaping is not the same as invisibility. When you Escape Bolt you still can be seen, and it is a means to escape. Dark Cloak grants invisibility but is a poor means to escape, if you know how to counter it. Then again, we come to the same point: EQUIP AoE's (at least one).

I play a NB, and Dark Cloak is not a "puss out" skill. The only useful ingredient, specially in PvP, are the morphs.

The main purpose of invisibility is not being seen. Single shot immunity doesn't have to be part of it. Being able to sneak away is enough. Invisibility also gives bonuses to attacks, so there is already plenty of benefit from it without any immunity.

Players should be able to use abilities without a target unless it is something like a gap close that makes no sense without a predetermined target. Unfortunately, that is not the way certain skills work. If they need a target, obviously they can't in practice work against someone who is invisible because you should not be able to target them. The problem is that such skills should not require a target.

For example, should WB have to have a particular target, or should I be able to just do WB into empty space such that it could hit an invisible player? Obviously it would be best if it could hit an invisible target as enemies being invisible should not stop me from being able to attack empty space with the hopes of hitting the hidden target. This becomes problematic with WB, for example, because if I swing it into an area with 2 targets, which would it hit? Normally it hits the target that was selected at cast time. If the target moves out of range, it will cancel WB, even if the other enemy is still in the location. If WB decided who the target was when it was about to make contact, it could make WB a bit too powerful when spammed into groups. But not letting me use such skills against invisible people makes invisibility too powerful.

One thing for sure -- invisibility should not interrupt any skill currently being cast, such as WB. You should have to move to get out of the way. The fact that WB has a clear direction and you often have to move while casting to maintain the proper distance means that invisibility should not matter so long as the NB remains in range.

I suppose the downside of WB into empty space is that you would be extremely vulnerable to counters -- but that seems like real combat to me.

The only abilities that function as you say into "empty space" are light/heavy attacks and AoEs, and i guess defensive abilities. The rest require a pre determined target.

They designed the game to be a mixture of free ranged combat and classic tab target pre targeted combat.

They also designed cloak to avoid attacks - when timed correctly - and to buff and or remove debuffs.

A lot of players in this game complain about their sorc not being able to perform like a nightblade or their dk not performing like a sorc. This is a class based game, every class has their perks. Respect them.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

1. If invisibility doesn't grant you single shot immunity... then what it is for? AoE's take you out from invisibility, so please: USE THEM.

2. Escaping is not the same as invisibility. When you Escape Bolt you still can be seen, and it is a means to escape. Dark Cloak grants invisibility but is a poor means to escape, if you know how to counter it. Then again, we come to the same point: EQUIP AoE's (at least one).

I play a NB, and Dark Cloak is not a "puss out" skill. The only useful ingredient, specially in PvP, are the morphs.

The main purpose of invisibility is not being seen. Single shot immunity doesn't have to be part of it. Being able to sneak away is enough. Invisibility also gives bonuses to attacks, so there is already plenty of benefit from it without any immunity.

Players should be able to use abilities without a target unless it is something like a gap close that makes no sense without a predetermined target. Unfortunately, that is not the way certain skills work. If they need a target, obviously they can't in practice work against someone who is invisible because you should not be able to target them. The problem is that such skills should not require a target.

For example, should WB have to have a particular target, or should I be able to just do WB into empty space such that it could hit an invisible player? Obviously it would be best if it could hit an invisible target as enemies being invisible should not stop me from being able to attack empty space with the hopes of hitting the hidden target. This becomes problematic with WB, for example, because if I swing it into an area with 2 targets, which would it hit? Normally it hits the target that was selected at cast time. If the target moves out of range, it will cancel WB, even if the other enemy is still in the location. If WB decided who the target was when it was about to make contact, it could make WB a bit too powerful when spammed into groups. But not letting me use such skills against invisible people makes invisibility too powerful.

One thing for sure -- invisibility should not interrupt any skill currently being cast, such as WB. You should have to move to get out of the way. The fact that WB has a clear direction and you often have to move while casting to maintain the proper distance means that invisibility should not matter so long as the NB remains in range.

I suppose the downside of WB into empty space is that you would be extremely vulnerable to counters -- but that seems like real combat to me.

ZOS gave Cloak, single target immunity because IT broke on almost everything in the past and now breaks on AOE and it's other counters, so slot them and use them.

The game was not made so that "Players should be able to use abilities without a target.." not unless it is a AOE.

I understand your logic but this is a game, not real life, If you are using Wrecking Blow I can easily avoid you in-game by just walking through you as well as using Cloak.. players cant be solid in the game to each other as it will wreck the game engine (see what I did there lol) but they did make NPC's solid..

So learn the Game's Mechanic's and handle the situation.. don't make me state that 3 letter/number acronym again please...

NightRibon23444 wrote: »

ralonasan wrote: »

NightRibon23444 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

More fun just to reflect and kill you with your own meteor via Scales!

To me that's more legitimate than just disappearing. If a DK reflects it back. That's a great job on timing. The escape Is ridiculous.

You can't just hit cloak and have meteor miss. Clearly you have never tried to cloak a meteor. It takes a lot better timing than spamming reflect. If a nightblade cloaks too early, or too late they still get hit.

Thank you for enlightening us though. Now we know you're just bad and understand nothing about game mechanics.

To just hide and run is not legitimate. That's not timing. The DK can't run. Yes I have used it before. Hits the reason my nightblade is on the self. He is juck. He is op and until ZoS levels them out I am not touching him.

lolwut

/thread

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

1. If invisibility doesn't grant you single shot immunity... then what it is for? AoE's take you out from invisibility, so please: USE THEM.

2. Escaping is not the same as invisibility. When you Escape Bolt you still can be seen, and it is a means to escape. Dark Cloak grants invisibility but is a poor means to escape, if you know how to counter it. Then again, we come to the same point: EQUIP AoE's (at least one).

I play a NB, and Dark Cloak is not a "puss out" skill. The only useful ingredient, specially in PvP, are the morphs.

The main purpose of invisibility is not being seen. Single shot immunity doesn't have to be part of it. Being able to sneak away is enough. Invisibility also gives bonuses to attacks, so there is already plenty of benefit from it without any immunity.

Players should be able to use abilities without a target unless it is something like a gap close that makes no sense without a predetermined target. Unfortunately, that is not the way certain skills work. If they need a target, obviously they can't in practice work against someone who is invisible because you should not be able to target them. The problem is that such skills should not require a target.

For example, should WB have to have a particular target, or should I be able to just do WB into empty space such that it could hit an invisible player? Obviously it would be best if it could hit an invisible target as enemies being invisible should not stop me from being able to attack empty space with the hopes of hitting the hidden target. This becomes problematic with WB, for example, because if I swing it into an area with 2 targets, which would it hit? Normally it hits the target that was selected at cast time. If the target moves out of range, it will cancel WB, even if the other enemy is still in the location. If WB decided who the target was when it was about to make contact, it could make WB a bit too powerful when spammed into groups. But not letting me use such skills against invisible people makes invisibility too powerful.

One thing for sure -- invisibility should not interrupt any skill currently being cast, such as WB. You should have to move to get out of the way. The fact that WB has a clear direction and you often have to move while casting to maintain the proper distance means that invisibility should not matter so long as the NB remains in range.

I suppose the downside of WB into empty space is that you would be extremely vulnerable to counters -- but that seems like real combat to me.

ZOS gave Cloak, single target immunity because IT broke on almost everything in the past and now breaks on AOE and it's other counters, so slot them and use them.

The game was not made so that "Players should be able to use abilities without a target.." not unless it is a AOE.

I understand your logic but this is a game, not real life, If you are using Wrecking Blow I can easily avoid you in-game by just walking through you as well as using Cloak.. players cant be solid in the game to each other as it will wreck the game engine (see what I did there lol) but they did make NPC's solid..

So learn the Game's Mechanic's and handle the situation.. don't make me state that 3 letter/number acronym again please...

Use whatever acronym you want. I'm not saying anything needs to be changed. I don't really care about balance in PvP when I play my crappy DK tank. I'm just acknowledging the design problem. I guess I could level my NB and make my life faster and make my life easier, but I feel attached to my crappy DK.

And of course you should be able to avoid WB by getting out of range when you walk through me.

What about dodge roll? That would be at least somehow realistic - the thing isn't THAT big - equally useful for every class and all could be happy.
Maybe, that even works already, I haven't tried that. But if so, problem solved.

NightRibon23444 wrote: »

Or any damage being given to the enemy should not happen.

Well, I see you've removed any reference to invisibility from your title and original post. Since your concern now seems focused on meteor, I had to look up the specifics of that ability as I've never cared to use it.

I had thought it was a simple aim and drop AoE, but it turns out to be a single target ability, which falls prey to the aforementioned auto aim mechanic and the unfortunate workaround ZOS has implemented to make cloak functional.

So, the solution is simple. You should be lobbying to change meteor's required target lock deployment to an aim and drop AoE which will hit the invisible should they remain in it's blast radius. This should provide more satisfying results than complaining about a game mechanic that has no foreseeable alternative. It's not like they can remove auto aim and track every pc/npc location, projectile path, and melee hit zone, especially with all the lag at present.

In a GAME where an individual can summon a metor at will I guess its also acceptable for said metor to land right on a players head but do no dmg because said player was invisible.

Edit: Also, dont change the title of a thread to the point of making previous posts incomprehensible.