It would be easy to add both pools --> Divide by a certain factor and make it scale with that amount. but w/e

Lenikus wrote: »

Ultimates scale on the highest stat, be it stamina or magicka.
If they are both at 30, it'll scale to 30. If you have one of them at 64, it'll scale as 64. That simple.
You kinda might wanna run 50 or so points in one and invest the other stat wiht glyphs / jewelry.

That's the point.
Ultimate damage penalises hybrids.

If as @xantaria says ...
mean of 66 + 0 = 33
mean of 33 + 33 = 33
or...
mean of 30,000 + 10000 = 20,000
mean of 20,000 + 20,000 = 20,000

...we used this then there would be no problem.
Its just another obstacle in the way of people using hybrid builds.

Lenikus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

math

You're kinda nerfin' ultimates in general like that... Pure builds are supposed to be better, you know. The 'hybrids' would merely gain versatility. You know, " Jack of all trades, master of none " .

AND pure builds are better using single target and AoE stamina/magicka abilities.
BUT ultimate doesn't use stamina/magicka.
Ultimates are not typical spammable everyday skills.

Spottswoode wrote: »

You sacrifice pure dps by going hybrid. You know that up front. If you want high dps, you should have to spec for it.
Now if you asked if some ultimates should have less disparity between pure builds and hybrid builds, my answer would be yes.

You don't get high DPS with stamina/magicka skills.
You have already been penalised.
Ultimate doesn't use stamina/magicka and can not be spammed for DPS like magicka/stamina skills.

Hybrid builds do NOT pull off high DPS, they do NOT tank as nicely as a dedicated one, and god knows no one will trust an hybrid to heal. So they are the infamous 'second dps' guy. 'the support'. the one that uses veils / barrier / war horn as ultimate, and the ones that do the ress'in or spam fear / vigor in pvp. Honestly, given those are mostly buffs, there's no reason they need high numbers to begin with.

If you think you're gonna rock some fancy hybrid build and do wonders in solo pvp like some random streamer does in his (usually expensive) endgame build, i'm sorry, but you're wrong.

MrDerrikk wrote: »

Everything in this game penalizes Hybrids, so it doesn't really matter.

Lmao.... true true

Lenikus wrote: »

Hybrid builds do NOT pull off high DPS, they do NOT tank as nicely as a dedicated one, and god knows no one will trust an hybrid to heal. So they are the infamous 'second dps' guy. 'the support'. the one that uses veils / barrier / war horn as ultimate, and the ones that do the ress'in or spam fear / vigor in pvp. Honestly, given those are mostly buffs, there's no reason they need high numbers to begin with.

If you think you're gonna rock some fancy hybrid build and do wonders in solo pvp like some random streamer does in his (usually expensive) endgame build, i'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Honestly this has nothing to do with awesome solo builds.

This is about whether every player gets access to rare, one off, non-spammable, game changing ultimates.....or just DPS builds.

Its the very essence of what separates ultimates from everything else.
That is why Ultimates don't use stamina/magicka

The game mechanics pretty much favour stacking as much of either magicka or stamina as possible with the following caveats: you need enough health to survive your intended tasks, and enough of the other resource to perform the tasks.

Generally that means a little extra health is all most builds will have, everything else will go into their primary attribute.
This make pure hybrid impossible as it stands because the damage and defences of a pure build pretty much always out perform those of a hybrid (wards scaling off magicka, heals scaling off magicka, vigour / momentum scaling off stamina).

So unless something is done more generally, fixing ultimate scaling is basically pointless. I would therefore advocate for a more complete solution rather than a poor man's bandaid.

I want...

If an ultimate scales of stamina, say I use Soul Harvest on my stamina nb...it shouldnt deal magic dmg, it should deal physical dmg. With champion points, this is more important now. Atm stamina dks is the only class that has a physical dmg dealing ultimate, namely leap.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Its the very essence of what separates ultimates from everything else.
That is why Ultimates don't use stamina/magicka

Ultimates are NOT using Stamina or Magicka resources...

as a consequence Ultimates should not scale from either of them !

So is scaling Ultimates from Health too revolutionary?

No not revolutionary at all.
And those who spec health should be considered too.

That becomes a question of should defensive builds do the same ultimate damage as offensive builds ?
Possibly. Feel free to Argue away

I just wanted to throw the thought in the discussion, to free up the discussion...

So I do think that a build focused on DPS should also have an Ultimate that does considerably more Damage than his usual abilities.

That almost forces to take for a DPS build his highest Mag/Stam stat.

So more to the point.
IF a hybrid build has higher Health than either Magicka or Stamina, let the Ultimate scale from Health
Does not hurt anybody and not game breaking.

To be noted as well:
There are defensive Ultimates as well like Bolstering Darkness. But all classes have at least one.

Hybrid builds are a thing of the past. Gone with soft caps. I love the concept and it's cool to be a jack of all trades. But even if we were back in the "good old days," it should only scale to your highest stat. I would even argue they should have stat specific morphs like normal skills.

The price of versatility needs to be balanced.

By the way some ultimates can be spammed quite frequently depending on your build.

If ultimates scaled on Health, it would be a way to 'show hybrid builds some undeserved love', BUT it will totally break PvP to the point of a guy (likely a nb) will simlpy permablock his way to victory while spamming Soul Harvest and Shooting Star.

olsborg wrote: »

I want...

If an ultimate scales of stamina, say I use Soul Harvest on my stamina nb...it shouldnt deal magic dmg, it should deal physical dmg. With champion points, this is more important now. Atm stamina dks is the only class that has a physical dmg dealing ultimate, namely leap.

Thats also the main reason why stam DKs are dealing insane burst dmg in pvp.

The CPs heavily favor physical dmg builds, more/all ultimates dealing physical dmg would only make this difference bigger.


Its still strange that ultimates that scale of max stamina/weapon dmg are dealing magical/elemental dmg ofc.
Simply changing this would make the difference too big, I do agree that ultimate scaling/dmg-type balancing is needed.

hrothbern wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Its the very essence of what separates ultimates from everything else.
That is why Ultimates don't use stamina/magicka

Ultimates are NOT using Stamina or Magicka resources...

as a consequence Ultimates should not scale from either of them !

So is scaling Ultimates from Health too revolutionary?

No not revolutionary at all.
And those who spec health should be considered too.

That becomes a question of should defensive builds do the same ultimate damage as offensive builds ?
Possibly. Feel free to Argue away

I just wanted to throw the thought in the discussion, to free up the discussion...

So I do think that a build focused on DPS should also have an Ultimate that does considerably more Damage than his usual abilities.

That almost forces to take for a DPS build his highest Mag/Stam stat.

So more to the point.
IF a hybrid build has higher Health than either Magicka or Stamina, let the Ultimate scale from Health
Does not hurt anybody and not game breaking.

To be noted as well:
There are defensive Ultimates as well like Bolstering Darkness. But all classes have at least one.

Wont argue with that on the defemsive/offensives ultimates especially.
All the more reason to be resource neutral.
I will argue with the premise that people who stack health are hybrids though.
To me if you stack health or magicka or stamina then you are a pure build.
Scaling off of magicka only or stamina only or health only... merely scales pure builds and does nothing for hyrbids.

In contrast, scaling off of health/stamina parity or health/magicka parity or stamina/magicka parity only, allows hyrbrids to flourish exactly because they are NOT pure stamina or pure health or pure magicka based and scaled.
That's why I have been contrasting resource parity (hybrid) as opposed to resource purity (trinity).

Anyway, Ultimate uses none of this.
Ultimate has nothing to do with stamina/magicka/health.
It has everything to do with building ultimate over time.
vis-à-vis ultimate is not just another skill to be bundled with everything else.
Its ultimate. A thing in its own right. A thing with its own unique purpose.
IMHO.

To me ultimates were game-changers to stop the status quo of a perfectly balanced game.
As such they shouldn't be resource biased in any way shape or form.
Because that just means some players get game changers and the rest don't.
Not exactly fair or balanced.