Why I Think @ZOS Should Prioritize The Issues of the "Top 1%"

GnGEmpire · December 2015

Hi ZOS and everyone, here's my take on why you should listen to the "Top 1%", my intention being to provide constructive feedback:

Those people are often not only experienced gamers, but also streamers who represent a large portion of a games community and the opinions of their followers will usually be in line with theirs.

Your failure to take to heart and/or implement so far the issues/suggestions/requests of those people has resulted in the fact that they are now transitioning to a different game which answers the needs of their competitive nature, and it is likely that many of their 10's of thousands of followers, the majority of which are ESO players, will begin making that transition as well.

Additionally, I believe that heeding their advice as soon as possible will not only preserve them and their followers, but also draw in popular competitive streamers from other games which means their followers as well.

I truly believe that investing more resources and staff into this will be a smarter business decision that investing in bear mounts, cultural garbs and such.

What do you all think?

Sausage · December 2015

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Those people are often not only experienced gamers, but also streamers who represent a large portion of a games community and the opinions of their followers will usually be in line with theirs.

Guild Leaders has alot of responsibility, the plan was to give it to them. Who knows whats the plan is now, I dont think no-one knows really.

If the plan is to give OP gears to 1%, this game is going to die fast and gate all content behind max CP-gears.

JD2013 · December 2015

I think that's a load of rubbish. Sorry, but "Experienced gamers" are usually the biggest QQers. Nothing is ever right for them.

I say this as someone who has been playing video games since I was 5. I am now in my early 30's.

In my opinion, just listening to the "top 1%" of a player base would make this game much, much worse. To get things right, one must have a fair and varied range of opinions from a range of people.

ZOS have listened too much to the community. Hence endless nerfs and the such. They should get a clear vision for their game and stick to it. Because no matter what they do, they'll never get it right for everyone.

Ra'Shtar · December 2015

Yeah sure like that streamer who wants a nerf on BoL because he couldn't 1v2 against templars *eye roll*

Skiserony · December 2015

It's an interesting point you make, and I gotta agree to some extend with you.

However, you still need to fill the needs of the other 99% first. They are priority. None the less they should also focus at the 1%, because they do give really good feedback and know the game better than anyone else. But I think if they do everything the 1% says, they may be targetting a big majority of casual gamers. It's hard to combine this and the most safe way is to focus on the 99%. But they should definitely listen to the 1% feedback, no doubt.

Gidorick · December 2015

What issues are you talking about specifically?

From my perspective it seems like the only people in the community ZOS listens to are Streamers, Podcasters, and certain guild leaders.

Turelus · December 2015

From what I understand most of the issues and [snip] choices they have made are from listening to specific people. Like you know that time a streamer told them removing the starting islands from the order you plan in was a good idea.

Now most newbies joining the game never play them or don't understand the story...

[edited for bashing]

GnGEmpire · December 2015

Skiserony wrote: »

It's an interesting point you make, and I gotta agree to some extend with you.

However, you still need to fill the needs of the other 99% first. They are priority. None the less they should also focus at the 1%, because they do give really good feedback and know the game better than anyone else. But I think if they do everything the 1% says, they may be targetting a big majority of casual gamers. It's hard to combine this and the most safe way is to focus on the 99%. But they should definitely listen to the 1% feedback, no doubt.

You have an interesting point too, however I think that the "99%" will in most cases have less issues needing immediate care than the "top 1%", and I think the ZOS should try and calculate the potential effect that listening to the "1%" will have. Because if for example there are 50K active players in ESO, and 35K people following the "top 1%", it might actually end up being more beneficial to listen to those 1% first.

Ra'Shtar · December 2015

The truth is that 1% are all pvp players any suggestion or ''improvement'' that they have will be biased toward PvP i haven't seen a single popular stream that is about PvE since Deltia went on a break just because most of the PvE that is group based in this game is boring to watch like really boring, balancing the game around PvP only will make any group content a nightmare to do, gameplay is kind of stale in PvE because you spend so much time pressing the same ability we need something to make the rotation more fun and awesome.

I_killed_Vivec · December 2015

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

It's an interesting point you make, and I gotta agree to some extend with you.

However, you still need to fill the needs of the other 99% first. They are priority. None the less they should also focus at the 1%, because they do give really good feedback and know the game better than anyone else. But I think if they do everything the 1% says, they may be targetting a big majority of casual gamers. It's hard to combine this and the most safe way is to focus on the 99%. But they should definitely listen to the 1% feedback, no doubt.

You have an interesting point too, however I think that the "99%" will in most cases have less issues needing immediate care than the "top 1%", and I think the ZOS should try and calculate the potential effect that listening to the "1%" will have. Because if for example there are 50K active players in ESO, and 35K people following the "top 1%", it might actually end up being more beneficial to listen to those 1% first.

"Following" the top 1%?

I imagine most people (like me) don't even know (and still less care) who the "top" 1% might be. And we certainly don't "follow" them.

As for "knowing the game better", maybe the 99% have a better feel for the game. As mere mortals we have to struggle where others glide through: that struggle is a learning process. Also, if the 1% find the game so easy then what insight do they give for those of us who find it more of a challenge?

And how many of the fabled 1% actually "play as you want", instead of constantly searching for the "best" current solution? How many of them really want balance rather than best? How many drive a continual search for a single best solution rather than encouraging diversity?

pronkg · December 2015

depends on what these 1% want. They are all human beings, being a good gamer doesn't make you intelligent.
9 out of 10 times they are cocky and vain at best which means they usually don't care less about what the 99% needs as long as they will not be able to beat them in pvp or Pve.

ZoS needs to listen to pro players and mediocre players who have a right set of mind and to me it seems they are doing just that.

I've been around since beta and I've seen that the majority of decisions ZoS has made are based on player feedback and let's not forget making money.

Sausage · December 2015

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understand most of the issues and [snip] choices they have made are from listening to specific people. Like you know that time a streamer told them removing the starting islands from the order you plan in was a good idea.

Now most newbies joining the game never play them or don't understand the story...

I think exactly opposite, they are trying to please everybody. Thats why we have CP and VR system. Thats why theres crafting gears, BoP and BoE gears. Thats why theres dailies and grind like AP, TS grind, not to mention theres Gear Upgrade System but they still need to bring another CP-gear system. etc. They are trying to do everything. I blame Zen, they are too Amateur to make important decisions.

[edited to remove quote]

Ra'Shtar · December 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

It's an interesting point you make, and I gotta agree to some extend with you.

However, you still need to fill the needs of the other 99% first. They are priority. None the less they should also focus at the 1%, because they do give really good feedback and know the game better than anyone else. But I think if they do everything the 1% says, they may be targetting a big majority of casual gamers. It's hard to combine this and the most safe way is to focus on the 99%. But they should definitely listen to the 1% feedback, no doubt.

You have an interesting point too, however I think that the "99%" will in most cases have less issues needing immediate care than the "top 1%", and I think the ZOS should try and calculate the potential effect that listening to the "1%" will have. Because if for example there are 50K active players in ESO, and 35K people following the "top 1%", it might actually end up being more beneficial to listen to those 1% first.

"Following" the top 1%?

I imagine most people (like me) don't even know (and still less care) who the "top" 1% might be. And we certainly don't "follow" them.

As for "knowing the game better", maybe the 99% have a better feel for the game. As mere mortals we have to struggle where others glide through: that struggle is a learning process. Also, if the 1% find the game so easy then what insight do they give for those of us who find it more of a challenge?

And how many of the fabled 1% actually "play as you want", instead of constantly searching for the "best" current solution? How many of them really want balance rather than best? How many drive a continual search for a single best solution rather than encouraging diversity?

I agree with some of your points, taking advice from the 1% would make the game a cookie cutter build simulator, there are so many spells in this game that waste a space on your bars instead of being buffs that last 30 mins+ (Example you slot Mage Light you press the button and you get a 30 mins buff you then proceed to take away that spell from your bars leaving more space for a fun build, of course this will only work with toggle spells another example would be Flames of Oblivion. They would have to code this spells to not stack with each other so you can only get the + magicka of Mage Light and the crit increase from Flames of Oblivion)

Tandor · December 2015

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Hi ZOS and everyone, here's my take on why you should listen to the "Top 1%", my intention being to provide constructive feedback:

Those people are often not only experienced gamers, but also streamers who represent a large portion of a games community and the opinions of their followers will usually be in line with theirs.

Your failure to take to heart and/or implement so far the issues/suggestions/requests of those people has resulted in the fact that they are now transitioning to a different game which answers the needs of their competitive nature, and it is likely that many of their 10's of thousands of followers, the majority of which are ESO players, will begin making that transition as well.

Additionally, I believe that heeding their advice as soon as possible will not only preserve them and their followers, but also draw in popular competitive streamers from other games which means their followers as well.

I truly believe that investing more resources and staff into this will be a smarter business decision that investing in bear mounts, cultural garbs and such.

What do you all think?

I think that the top 1% is just that, 1% of the game's community, no more no less. Where you get the idea that 1% represents a large portion of the game's community I've no idea. Similarly, I haven't a clue why you should think that there are tens of thousands of followers all dependent on doing what the 1% do. The term "self-important" springs to mind but probably doesn't do the claims justice.

I also think that the developers would be better off listening to the other 99%.

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

You didn't even mention what the issues of the top 1% are lol. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

GnGEmpire · December 2015

Tandor wrote: »

I think that the top 1% is just that, 1% of the game's community, no more no less. Where you get the idea that 1% represents a large portion of the game's community I've no idea. Similarly, I haven't a clue why you should think that there are tens of thousands of followers all dependent on doing what the 1% do. The term "self-important" springs to mind but probably doesn't do the claims justice.

I also think that the developers would be better off listening to the other 99%.

To answer your question, I get the idea that the 1% represents a large portion of the community based on the numbers of followers that they have on Twitch and YouTube.

As to your second point about "10's of thousands of followers All dependent on doing what the 1% do".
You simply twisted my words. I did not say that and won't dignify this with an answer.

maxjapank · December 2015

Skiserony wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Hi ZOS and everyone, here's my take on why you should listen to the "Top 1%", my intention being to provide constructive feedback:

Those people are often not only experienced gamers, but also streamers who represent a large portion of a games community and the opinions of their followers will usually be in line with theirs.

Your failure to take to heart and/or implement so far the issues/suggestions/requests of those people has resulted in the fact that they are now transitioning to a different game which answers the needs of their competitive nature, and it is likely that many of their 10's of thousands of followers, the majority of which are ESO players, will begin making that transition as well.

Additionally, I believe that heeding their advice as soon as possible will not only preserve them and their followers, but also draw in popular competitive streamers from other games which means their followers as well.

I truly believe that investing more resources and staff into this will be a smarter business decision that investing in bear mounts, cultural garbs and such.

What do you all think?

[snip]

[snip]

Umm...maybe because the top 1% really don't represent the majority. I mean..honestly...just how many people follow streamers. Not that many really. Because most players are in the game playing rather than watching someone play. I do think that Guild Leaders are good players for the Devs to listen to...as they often hear what many in the guild are saying.

But I found the OPs whole idea so silly that I find myself surprised that some agree with him. But people have different thoughts. And I can live with that. But from what a few of the "streamers" have said at times, I can say that they don't always represent my thoughts.

[edited to remove quote]

Jura23 · December 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

I think that's a load of rubbish. Sorry, but "Experienced gamers" are usually the biggest QQers. Nothing is ever right for them.

I say this as someone who has been playing video games since I was 5. I am now in my early 30's.

In my opinion, just listening to the "top 1%" of a player base would make this game much, much worse. To get things right, one must have a fair and varied range of opinions from a range of people.

ZOS have listened too much to the community. Hence endless nerfs and the such. They should get a clear vision for their game and stick to it. Because no matter what they do, they'll never get it right for everyone.

I agree. This is my 3rd MMO and I didn't experienced so many rapid changes as I do in ESO before. Almost feel like the game is still in development. I think they need to try to find some long term solution asap and leave it alone. Neverending balancing process sucks.

Tandor · December 2015

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Because if for example there are 50K active players in ESO, and 35K people following the "top 1%", it might actually end up being more beneficial to listen to those 1% first.

70% of ESO players are following the top 1%? Too funny. I was right, the term "self-important" doesn't even begin to describe the delusion being shown in this thread.

By all means set out what you guys want addressed in the game, the same as everyone else can do, and then ZOS can make their own decisions based both on all those concerns, their data logs, and their own views on how they want the game to develop.

Nifty2g · December 2015

I guess I could consider myself a "Top 1%" and I disagree with this, too many of the top players will want things nerfed to be able to DPS them down or gear put behind extremely hard content only they are able to obtain, I mean some gear should be hard to get but it should be obtainable by the average player if they put the work in, I like it how it is now. We need more group content how VMA is and tone VMA down a little to make the casual gamer be able to practice builds and rotations inside there.

Just my thoughts, but if we follow the "Top 1%" the game will most likely take an ugly turn, there's a lot of garbage I hear some of the top players asking for

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I think that's a load of rubbish. Sorry, but "Experienced gamers" are usually the biggest QQers. Nothing is ever right for them.

I say this as someone who has been playing video games since I was 5. I am now in my early 30's.

In my opinion, just listening to the "top 1%" of a player base would make this game much, much worse. To get things right, one must have a fair and varied range of opinions from a range of people.

ZOS have listened too much to the community. Hence endless nerfs and the such. They should get a clear vision for their game and stick to it. Because no matter what they do, they'll never get it right for everyone.

I agree. This is my 3rd MMO and I didn't experienced so many rapid changes as I do in ESO before. Almost feel like the game is still in development. I think they need to try to find some long term solution asap and leave it alone. Neverending balancing process sucks.

Agreed. I also feel as if the game is still in development, especially defining the classes and the magicka/sta based system. It's almost as if they didn't clearly think out the classes, skills, resources, and combat system. Fortunately, the world is amazing.

ZoS does need to figure out the classes and skills, some of them need some serious work.

Armitas · December 2015

I don't think they have the time to listen to more than 1% of the population anyway so I would prefer that it consist of players that are knowledgeable and good at what they do. That said I would consider it a mistake if they ignored the forums or confused a streamers popularity with being knowledgeable and able to provide valuable forward looking information. The latter of which takes a lot of time, foresight, and consideration of multiple lines of consequences rather than gut instinctive feeling of what should be done.

Whoever the 1% is, they should be in communication with us on what they are communicating to ZOS. Similar to a republic. That way we can check and balance them and they can check and balance ZOS. In such a case the 1% will also represent far more than just 1%.

Khaos_Bane · December 2015

Armitas wrote: »

I don't think they have the time to listen to more than 1% of the population anyway so I would prefer that it consist of players that are knowledgeable and good at what they do. That said I would consider it a mistake if they ignored the forums or confused a streamers popularity with being knowledgeable and able to provide valuable forward looking information.

Whoever the 1% is, they should be in communication with us on what they are communicating to ZOS. Similar to a republic. That way we can check and balance them and they can check and balance ZOS.

Nobody even knows what issues the OP is talking about, because he doesn't mention EVEN ONE. Also, ZoS HAS listened to what I think this OP is referring to as the 1%. They have listened to the major streamers and community. ZoS has been accused of listening too much.

Armitas · December 2015

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I don't think they have the time to listen to more than 1% of the population anyway so I would prefer that it consist of players that are knowledgeable and good at what they do. That said I would consider it a mistake if they ignored the forums or confused a streamers popularity with being knowledgeable and able to provide valuable forward looking information.

Whoever the 1% is, they should be in communication with us on what they are communicating to ZOS. Similar to a republic. That way we can check and balance them and they can check and balance ZOS.

Nobody even knows what issues the OP is talking about, because he doesn't mention EVEN ONE. Also, ZoS HAS listened to what I think this OP is referring to as the 1%. They have listened to the major streamers and community. ZoS has been accused of listening too much.

Somehow I got it into my head that the block nerf came as the brain child of that private 1%. Even if I'm wrong it just was well could have. That sort of private communications scares me.

I don't think the problem is the amount of listening, but the gathering of information. If I post on the forums and I'm wrong you guys will make sure everyone knows I'm wrong. You can vet my comments. But the expertise on the forums is unreferenced with the exception of a few known posters. There are posters who are good that no one recognizes and posters who think they are good but have no idea how bad they are. The forum can filter logic but it can't create any bench marks when they are needed. Without those benchmarks things get nerfed by logic and debate that should never have been nerfed. This is where the 1% come in. They can show you where reality lies, but nothing they say is veted, or sharpened by debate when their communication is made privately.

Good information gathering should come from all relevant sources in a way that complements those different sources where their weaknesses lie.

GnGEmpire · December 2015

maxjapank wrote: »

Skiserony wrote: »

vyrusb23 wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Hi ZOS and everyone, here's my take on why you should listen to the "Top 1%", my intention being to provide constructive feedback:

Those people are often not only experienced gamers, but also streamers who represent a large portion of a games community and the opinions of their followers will usually be in line with theirs.

Your failure to take to heart and/or implement so far the issues/suggestions/requests of those people has resulted in the fact that they are now transitioning to a different game which answers the needs of their competitive nature, and it is likely that many of their 10's of thousands of followers, the majority of which are ESO players, will begin making that transition as well.

Additionally, I believe that heeding their advice as soon as possible will not only preserve them and their followers, but also draw in popular competitive streamers from other games which means their followers as well.

I truly believe that investing more resources and staff into this will be a smarter business decision that investing in bear mounts, cultural garbs and such.

What do you all think?

I think you're wrong.

There's no point in saying he is wrong without saying why he is wrong. Why do you think he is wrong?

Umm...maybe because the top 1% really don't represent the majority. I mean..honestly...just how many people follow streamers. Not that many really.

I never said that they do represent the majority of players as I don't have that facts to determine so, I merely speculated that based on the number of followers that those streamers have, they might be representing a significant amount of the player base, possibly majority.

You simply claim otherwise without basing your claim on facts

mlstevens42_ESO · December 2015

No I do not think they should listen more to the top 1% of players because this will not help the game for the majority of people it only helps that 1%. The 1% are not always the best judge of how playable a game is. The opinions of said like any other opinion is almost always tainted with self interest. For this reason they should take in a variety of opinions from a variety of players skill wise and such so they can gauge if a change or a new system or what not would be enjoyed by all if they are going to take any opinions at all.

I know I do not follow the crowd do not watch streamers could care less about their antics or in the main their great plans for what the game ought to be. In your so generous view nothing I would do or say would count since it did not go through the censure process of going through that 1% first. Since I do support the game with my cash and such my opinion should hold the same weight as any other person that pays for this service. This suggestion I feel is elitism at its best.

SemiD4rkness · December 2015

Lol, look what they have donde to templars and dks, these so called pros want even more nerfs to templars. Streamers are still around because they make money playing this game. What you think is gonna happen if they start playing some other MMO and get more viewers? Yes they will leave this game that they have ruined with their sugestions. They should listen to the 99% of us, we don't get any benefit from playing this game we just enjoy it.

GnGEmpire · December 2015

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

You didn't even mention what the issues of the top 1% are lol. What a lame thread.

If you need me to actually mention the issues, this thread is not for you and you should go back and enjoy the game.

Also, the fact that you don't understand something doesn't make it lame, but the fact that you think it makes it so is a little lame.

You create a thread about the issues of the top 1% which you don't even mention one of them. That is what I call lazy. Are you making up the issues of the top 1% or do you even have any? Do you even have one? Maybe it's an issue for everyone?

How do people even know what they are debating in here without even mentioning ONE ISSUE?

Put more effort into it, people don't even know what they are arguing about lol.

This thread isn't intended for those who don't understand what I'm talking about, but was created mainly for the eyes of Zenimax and the people who do.

No need to argue or debate just for the sake of arguing and debating my friend.

Artjuh90 · December 2015

listen to the 1% and this game is dead within 6 month i'm sure of it.
all content will be locked for max geared max cp players. hard time to keep up for newer or people who actually have a life.
you will get constantly killed by 1 vs x in pvp which will rui your experience and any chance to get any beter. because you can't do anything if the ttk is less then one second which those streamers think they should be able to pull off. they actually against everything this game was market at and try to force ZoS to make the game THEY want. but there is a larger player base who actually doesn't like most of the idea's they want to implement.
so please just ignore those preachers for own choir at every cost

kevlarto_ESO · December 2015

I do not want the 1% speaking for me is 1% enough to sustain the game when you tick off the 99% they have listened some of the things the 1% wants is coming I guess the problem now is not fast enough.

Islyn · December 2015

JD2013 wrote: »

I think that's a load of rubbish. Sorry, but "Experienced gamers" are usually the biggest QQers. Nothing is ever right for them.

I say this as someone who has been playing video games since I was 5. I am now in my early 30's.

In my opinion, just listening to the "top 1%" of a player base would make this game much, much worse. To get things right, one must have a fair and varied range of opinions from a range of people.

ZOS have listened too much to the community. Hence endless nerfs and the such. They should get a clear vision for their game and stick to it. Because no matter what they do, they'll never get it right for everyone.

I 100% agree with this. Well said.

I understand GnG's Point though, and why he would think that, but I would never stay or go from a game based on others and aside from Differently Geared and certain tactical videos I don't watch streamers.

I would think/hope that other people would also have some original thought and not be sheep, but you never know.