Sorceror build Opinions Wanted Please

Waffennacht · December 2015

So I have been going back and forth between what kind of build, what kind of stats and what weapons should I be running with?

I would like both suggestions for new choices and opinions on old choices.

First Ill list my build, why some moves are there, what im contemplating, and then would love to hearwhat YOU have to say

My build: "Oblivion Sorcerer "

x5 julianos set,
x4 Twilight's Embrace
x3 willpower (would like spell dmg glyphs)
- all divines, except head chest legs infused. All max magicka glyphs

Mundus: the apprentice

First Bar: DW

Crystal Fragment
Hardened Ward
Velacious Curse
Tangling Webs
Shattering Prison
Ult: Overload

Back up: Resto Staff

Power Surge
Hardened Ward
Dark Conversion
Streak
Blessing of Restoration or Healing Ward
Ult: Overload

Overload bar:
Encase
Hardened Ward
Streak
Power Surge
Velacious Curse

Notice, all but overload are "magic" based or Oblivion in nature, so the thermatuge CP has the most effect.

Now some reasoning: First bar has the standard attacks and ward...

Tangling Webs - as DW I have limited choices of ranged moves, tangling allows for a spammable move that deals damage, mostly used to proc frags while still having an effect.

Shattering Prison - fabulous PvE move, auto win against any melee based mob. I found it very useful against nbs, though they go invis you know where they are. It allows puts your opponent into a defensive mode as they gotta roll and not attack. Would rather this than the snare version as tangling gives the snare effect as well. Sometimes actually deals damage. Too me, an nderrated move.

Why overload on both bars? Because I wanna be able to go into heavy damage mode in an instant (that and when I ran atro I got very unhappy when I wanted overload and accidentally used all my ult on him...)

Second bar:

Blessing is my "oh no!" Heal, this is primarily a PvE move as if I get too low on health im usually dead pvp. Healing Ward, I can't seem to be as effective with this as I should be. Usually the only time I would need it is against a NB or someone dealing 10k hits... both of which kill me despite healing ward anyway... but I really want to be just as hard to kill.

Streak is pretty much just anti NB, sometimes used for a move to hit a DK. However I find myself just streaking and dark conversion to get around the map quickly.

Dark Conversion. Again its primarily PvE, as PvP doesn't last long enough to need its use.

As you can tell I have a lot of PvE moves. This is because most of my PvP takes place while im trying to complete dailies in Cyrodiil or grind in the IC, both being PvE and PvP mix. Many times I think about going pure PvP, but I just can't help getting items or gold...

Now for things I've been considering

No longer DW, I have considered switching to destro staff:
Drawbacks: Reduced spell damage, only x3 set instead of x4
Advantages: using destro will give access to more spammable moves to theoretically replace tangling webs and weave light/heavy attacks

Daedric Mines/Tombs : This is a heavy hitter, I have used the more defensive mines, however it seems more players will move around them or past them rather than be hit, I have had it used decently against me. Tombs, seems themore offensive move, very useful against DKs (you can hit with two mines insantly if placed correctly.
Drawbacks being: limited range, heavy cost, possibility of having no effect if opponent moves out of the way
Advantages: Heavy Damage, applies passive Sorc perks.
Could replace tangling webs or possibly shattering prison.

Innerlight/bound aegis: Both give alright boosts, however, I have fallen in love with no toggles. Do you think max stats worth the loss of utility from moves?

Mage's Wrath: its weak, it when procced still only does as much as any Overload light attack or non procced frag, however, it does cost little and can be used to proc frag. Possibly replace webs with this.

I want Magicka Detonation and caltrops (if just to try) however Im only alliance 5 level.

Now that you read my opinions, I would absolutely love to hear your opinions and suggestions

lolo_01b16_ESO · December 2015

What is the purpose of this build? As you stated that you don't pvp much and it's clearly not a group pve build I'd assume it's for vmsa, am I correct?

FriedEggSandwich · December 2015

It's tricky to stack crit and spell damage. If you're going for a crit build then you'd be better off with 5x twice born star with thief and shadow mundus. If you want a spell damage build then lose the twilight's embrace and pick up arch mage or anything else really. I prefer destro staff over dual wield. I can still hit 3k spell damage buffed but have 36k magicka and 2k regen. Medium attack weave ftw.

Additionally it's my opinion that 5x kagrenacs hope is better than 5x julianos for a PvP focused spell damage build. It just has more sustain with not much less spell damage. Julianos is objectively better for pve though.

Mages Wrath can be reflected. It's still one of my favourite skills though, I use it as a dps "filler" instead of crushing shock. By this I mean I use it when curse is already up and I'm waiting for a frag proc. Because of the way wrath works you can use it to pre-proc an execute. That is to say you hit your opponent with wrath and then within 4 seconds you or an ally take your opponent below 20% hp and boom - dead. For this reason it's good to hit them with wrath a few times during a fight, which is why it makes a good dps filler imo.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Good question! I only touched on that, it's kinda weird lol.

It's for solo PvP/PvE build. I have done large group PvP. In my humble opinion, in such large numbers, you don't need the build to be all out focused on PvP.

So I almost always go solo, im always in Cyrodiil or IC. So iuse the PvE to grind mobs, and usually get some 1v1 action.

Not a clear answer but I dunno how to be more clear

Edit: should i focus on PvP? I prefer it, and if so, how or what should i do?

ToRelax · December 2015

1.) This build is incomplete as it is missing your Overload bar. You even argue about what skill to replace with Mines, yet they are a perfect candidate for an Overload skill.

2.) As said already, this is kinda missing a purpose. The PvE in Cyrodiil doesn't require any adjustments for a PvP build, it's just simple quests. Build against the largest threat on the field, enemy players.

Now about actual tips/suggestions I can already give.
You are wasting a slot by using Hardened Ward on both bars. Try to replace the Hardened Ward on the resto bar with Healing Ward and free a slot for something else. Shuffle, Detonation, Mines, Harness, Boundless Storm, Purge are some candidates. If you want to keep the stam regen passives on both bars, have Hardened Ward on one and Curse on the other (or Atro).

However you seem to not put a lot emphasis on stam regen anyway, decreasing it's effectiveness.
While we're there. For PvP use some stam regen glyph(s), set bonuses (5 willow with DW, otherwise you can also use 3 willow without losing one bonus on hp regen), drinks/smoothies or whatever flat stam regen bonus you can get. Alternatively Arena set for heavy cost reduction, though I'd not recommend it now with the dodge roll nerf (higher stam pool less relevant).

Overload on both bars... not a good idea unless you center your build around Overload (y'know, so your argument to have an instant heavy hitter makes sense. But you focus on magic dmg).
Dawnbreaker, Soul Assault, Atronach, Meteor are all good choices depending on your playstyle.
You'd want to be able to defend yourself in Overload mode, so you Hardened Ward on that bar, but to heal you need to switch to resto. Therefore I strongly recommend keeping Overload on your resto bar if you don't wanna die because you couldn't deal with execute damage.
If you use Overload a lot, Degeneration would be a good skill there. Otherwise, long time effects like Mines, Surge or even Proximity Detonation on that bar free you slots elsewhere.

Since you are mentioning a possible switch to destro. Destro staff gives you better magicka management, a counter to defensive stance and does not really decrease your damage a lot, if at all, with weaving. However, it requires a balanced approach or focus on elemental damage and costs you a possible set bonus.
Also, I'd use Eyes of Mara or Magnus' Gift instead of Twilight's Embrace.

Overall I think you're going to have severe issues with this build, both magicka and stamina, while not being able to make very good use of your damage because of the lack of both delayed burst (detonation, meteor, endless fury) and instant dmg ultimate (dawnbreaker).

Edit: almost forgot the mundus, that's a big one - thief or atronach are miles ahead of apprentice since the latter only gives some spell damage now, yet is far less efficient compared to other means to obtain that

Waffennacht · December 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's tricky to stack crit and spell damage. If you're going for a crit build then you'd be better off with 5x twice born star with thief and shadow mundus. If you want a spell damage build then lose the twilight's embrace and pick up arch mage or anything else really. I prefer destro staff over dual wield. I can still hit 3k spell damage buffed but have 36k magicka and 2k regen. Medium attack weave ftw.

Additionally it's my opinion that 5x kagrenacs hope is better than 5x julianos for a PvP focused spell damage build. It just has more sustain with not much less spell damage. Julianos is objectively better for pve though.

Mages Wrath can be reflected. It's still one of my favourite skills though, I use it as a dps "filler" instead of crushing shock. By this I mean I use it when curse is already up and I'm waiting for a frag proc. Because of the way wrath works you can use it to pre-proc an execute. That is to say you hit your opponent with wrath and then within 4 seconds you or an ally take your opponent below 20% hp and boom - dead. For this reason it's good to hit them with wrath a few times during a fight, which is why it makes a good dps filler imo.

Great feedback. The reason for Twilight Embrace is for the spell crit, im trying to get to 50% and honestly I don't know how without Embrace or inner light. Is there more ways outside of mundus?

Yeah I really wanna run Twice born, im getting close to being able to make it, just not yet.

Archmage ill look into it, im very much lacking in non craftable sets (which is amazing to me how much there is in this game

)

Thanks for the insight guys

Also edited for overload bar and wrath

Curragraigue · December 2015

If you want to retain spell damage but swap to a destro then you could use Arch Mage or Torug's Pact sets. You have all three sources of your heals on one bar and the same shield on both bars. I'd recommend taking hardened ward off your second bar and using healing ward as your shield on your second bar.

Daedric Mines is great both for PvE and PvP. In PvE it is great for slowing enemies down and getting the passive bonus and in PvP it is good for defence by denying ground or the same as PvE if your enemy is melee range. Personally I would swap Daedric Mines for shattering prison. Although if you are swapping to destro you could put reach for the knock back on and put mines on your defence healing staff weapon swap.

I would also put endless fury on in place of webs. It is an execute so wait until you have them down to 20% before using it. It should do a lot of damage in the execute stage. If you want more damage for it add some CPs to elemental.

If you can live without hardened ward on both bars then I would put lightening flood on your healing staff. It would work well with mines if you put them on your healing staff. I would drop dark conversion for it. Healing ward is faster and if you keep surge up you should be getting heals from your crits. Just make sure to have pots for those oh no situations.

I also like having an AoE ult option so I personally would put Negate or Meteor on your healing staff.

It has to work for you so try things out on some lower mobs to get comfortable with changes. If you are planning on PvP'ing more I would consider adding in the skills mentioned by ToRelax when you are able to, would probably go Thundering Presence as although stam cost the movement speed is great. Immovable can also be helpful for assaults to stop knock downs when going through a breach.

Good luck with your build.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Absolutely wonderful, exact stuff I was looking for.

Im gonna try out pretty much every idea thrown out, just to see at least!

Thank you!

Waffennacht · December 2015

@ToRelax very nice post, been mulling over it a while now, real quick is there a difference between eyes of mara set and magnus? (Except the 5 pc perk?)

Curragraigue · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

@ToRelax very nice post, been mulling over it a while now, real quick is there a difference between eyes of mara set and magnus? (Except the 5 pc perk?)

No the 2-4 trait bonuses on both sets are the same.

ToRelax · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

ToRelax very nice post, been mulling over it a while now, real quick is there a difference between eyes of mara set and magnus? (Except the 5 pc perk?)

The first and second bonuses are switched around, so it doesn't matter wich you have if you always have exactly 3 or 4 pieces equipped.

You can look it up here: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets

Trihugger · December 2015

Disregard everything if my initial assumption is wrong with regards to your play style.

From what I gleaned you're mostly focused on PvE and want the ability to defend yourself as you play primarily in IC and Cyrodiil.

If that is indeed the case I recommend doing the following:

As far as gear is concerned you're probably fine with whatever you do outside the 5 Juli and 3 Willpower. My personal preference is to craft Torug Staves/helmet and then use a Molag Kena shoulder.

Now the real meat. My personal experience is that magic damage is bursty but on the whole it falls quite a bit behind elemental damage overall for a sorc. In your situation I would make Overload my go-to for dealing with PvP. It's not such a terrible setup either as overload with elemental CP's is pretty devastating. Unless you're actively looking for PvP, it's not so common to pose a problem with ult consumption.

Destro Bar:
Crushing Shock/Force Pulse. I prefer crushing.
Crystal Frags
Inner Light
The last two skills can be whatever you deem most preferable for your playstyle
Ult- Energy Overload. Power Overload is bugged and does 3% less damage instead of 3% more.

For the resto bar just nuke something for Inner light. 10% crit and 7% magicka is better than any 2 skills especially since you're not using the Thief mundus.

Overload Bar:
Put utility stuff in this bar. Overload does so much more damage than any other ability that in most cases there's no reason to use them. An exception might be Velo curse if you're trying to get some burst going, but that's pretty much it. As with the resto bar make sure inner light also comes here.

In this fashion you can safely put your CP's into elemental damage and get a much better overall return.

Curragraigue · December 2015

Trihugger wrote: »

Disregard everything if my initial assumption is wrong with regards to your play style.

From what I gleaned you're mostly focused on PvE and want the ability to defend yourself as you play primarily in IC and Cyrodiil.

If that is indeed the case I recommend doing the following:

As far as gear is concerned you're probably fine with whatever you do outside the 5 Juli and 3 Willpower. My personal preference is to craft Torug Staves/helmet and then use a Molag Kena shoulder.

Now the real meat. My personal experience is that magic damage is bursty but on the whole it falls quite a bit behind elemental damage overall for a sorc. In your situation I would make Overload my go-to for dealing with PvP. It's not such a terrible setup either as overload with elemental CP's is pretty devastating. Unless you're actively looking for PvP, it's not so common to pose a problem with ult consumption.

Destro Bar:
Crushing Shock/Force Pulse. I prefer crushing.
Crystal Frags
Inner Light
The last two skills can be whatever you deem most preferable for your playstyle
Ult- Energy Overload. Power Overload is bugged and does 3% less damage instead of 3% more.

For the resto bar just nuke something for Inner light. 10% crit and 7% magicka is better than any 2 skills especially since you're not using the Thief mundus.

Overload Bar:
Put utility stuff in this bar. Overload does so much more damage than any other ability that in most cases there's no reason to use them. An exception might be Velo curse if you're trying to get some burst going, but that's pretty much it. As with the resto bar make sure inner light also comes here.

In this fashion you can safely put your CP's into elemental damage and get a much better overall return.

While I don't disagree that elemental damage can be devastating when you put CPs into it, other than overload all the other skills you have referred to are magicka damage. If you go elemental you are better off focusing on having more elemental damage attacks to pair with overload in your set up.

Waffennacht · December 2015

Great food for thought. It seems that destro staff is something i gotta try

Elemental vs Magic damage: as I lack destro knowledge, what are the best moves?

Also is Pulsar magic or elemental?

Oh and about crushing shock, does this move stun someone using an instant cast ability?

About Overload bar: when you guys suggest overload, what kind of utility moves should I be looking into?

With wards is boundless still useful? If i go elemental should I consider it?

@Trihugger way to put it so correctly, yeah PvE with the ability to survive PvP, is Liquid Lightning something I should be considering? It's great PvE and elemental?

I really appreciate all the help, I can tell you guys know your stuff!

One more thing, what kind of regen numbers should I be aiming for?

Trihugger · December 2015

Liquid lighting is ... problematic. It's a great skill and I do use it, but mob AI has been tweaked that many things just move right out of it. Players will naturally sidestep it. It's one of those skills that's really good in dungeons and on boss fights but for solo'ing I keep it on the bar but usually don't use it outside of being able to clump quite a few mobs together and impulse them down.

Mana regeneration should pretty well solve itself with destruction abilities. Things you kill with your destruction staff abilities/Light & Heavy attacks will restore quite a bit of Magicka. That should be more than sufficient for soloing things and if needed you can Energy Overload as that will restore magicka when you hit things. In addition, there is a support destruction staff ability called Elemental Drain which restores magicka every time you hit something affected by the debuff. For reference, I have zero added magicka regeneration from gear, but I am an Altmer.

@Curragraigue, while there may be more magical damaging abilities here, make no mistake that the bulk of the damage will come from Crushing Shock and the Medium Weave associated with it, not even mentioning overload and liquid lightning should it be used. If we add in Mage's Fury then even frags will only account for 10% of the damage done. For reference, my Shock+Weave are typically 14-16k damage depending on how resistant whatever I'm shooting is. A crit Frag will do 17k damage after the proc. There isn't a single other skill here that you'd actually use without some outside factor coming into play as they would all lead to doing less overall damage and as such it's clearly elemental love all the way.

To give you an idea of what I run with a solely PvE mindset @Waffennacht is as follows:

Destro Bar:
Crystal Frags
Impulse/Elemental Drain/Velocious Curse (Never cast curse but keep it for the bonus 2% spell damage if I don't need the other two)
Crushing Shock
Inner Light
Bound Aegis

DW Bar:
Power Surge
Liquid Lightning
Mage's Wrath
Inner Light
Bound Aegis

Energy Overload Bar:
Unbound Storm
Liquid Lightning
Hardened Ward
Inner Light
Bound Aegis

The DW bar gets a freebie 5% damage bonus in addition to some extra spell damage, but I lose the ability to weave in heavy attacks. So to use it I have my one-and-done type abilities that I will cast while on that bar and quickly return to my destruction staff bar. This build is horrific for PvP and you'd be fresh meat for anyone that has a clue what they're doing, but this is generally accepted as "the overload" build you'll read referenced on the forums. You might experiment by dropping bound aegis and adding in some abilities you like first just to get a general feel for it.

You absolutely must animation cancel (weave) your light/medium attacks with this setup though. Results will be meager at best if you don't want to do that.

aLi3nZ · December 2015

I have also been switching builds trying to decide what to roll with. I tried twilight but ended up deconing it. I was running dw as my primary attack bar for some time but without Magika detonation Unlocked, I don't think the build is good enough.

Currently running primary attack as destro staff. Having frags on both bars helps it proc very often.

Staff Has some downsides compared to dw like losing 380 spell damage and another set item peice. But crashing shock is pretty awesome for sustained dps and a ranged interrupt.

3x seducer, (4x seducer on dw bar)
5x julianos
3x willpower, I use 2x spell damage, 1x Magika recovery enchants to get my Magika recover up to 1800. That also isn't necessary when running dw as primary attack bar due to set item bonus. recovery To aim for depends if with group or solo. For my play style I aim for 1800 recovery for solo pvp and taking v16 pve mobs.

1-destro
Crystal frags
Hardened ward
Crushing shock
Curse
Streak

2-dw

Power surge
Boundless storm
Shuffle
Crystal frags
Deadric mines

overload - only activated under dw bar

Shuffle
Power surge
Mage light or deadric mines
Hardened Ward
Streak

FriedEggSandwich · December 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Great food for thought. It seems that destro staff is something i gotta try

Elemental vs Magic damage: as I lack destro knowledge, what are the best moves?

Also is Pulsar magic or elemental?

Oh and about crushing shock, does this move stun someone using an instant cast ability?

About Overload bar: when you guys suggest overload, what kind of utility moves should I be looking into?

With wards is boundless still useful? If i go elemental should I consider it?

@Trihugger way to put it so correctly, yeah PvE with the ability to survive PvP, is Liquid Lightning something I should be considering? It's great PvE and elemental?

I really appreciate all the help, I can tell you guys know your stuff!

One more thing, what kind of regen numbers should I be aiming for?

As a sorc you can't really spec into just magic or elemental damage as you can't avoid using skills of both types. Eg. curse, frags and mines are magic damage, whereas streak, boundless storm, mages wrath are elemental. I split my cp equally between elemental expert and thaumaturge.

Pulsar is elemental. Crushing shock doesn't stun targets who insta-cast. If you can bash it to interrupt then you can use crushing shock to interrupt.

I don't use overload light attacks on players, never have cos I think it's pure cheese. I do slot overload though and use it purely as a utility bar. I have siege weapon shield, efficient purge, and retreating maneuver on my overload bar. I switch to this bar to mount so I can utilise maneuver while in transit.

I also slot no destro skills despite using destro staff. I use the staff purely for medium attack weaving. Skill>medium attack>skill>medium attack etc. This way you keep up a barrage of attacks on your opponent therefore keeping pressure on them. Dual wielding sorcs give experienced opponents a lot of time to think and act simply because there is more time between each attack.

Fwiw here is my gear/loadout:

5x kagrenacs hope, 3 arch mage, 3 willpower, atronach mundus.
5x light, 2 heavy.

Bar 1:
Curse
Wrath
Frags
Power Surge
Streak
Atro

Bar 2:
Healing Ward
Rapid Regen
Daedric Minefield
Boundless Storm
Hardened Ward
Overload

6 sorc skills on my offensive bar grants me 12% more spell damage from expert mage passive. Not suggesting you go for this loadout but it works very well for me.

Regen really depends on how much cost reduction you have but is also more of a personal thing. If you're regularly having to stop to regain magicka then you need more regen. With little to no cost reduction you will probably need 2k regen to keep fighting. If you have cp in arcanist and a cost reduction glyph then 1.6-1.7k is probably enough.

Edit: with regards to boundless storm; I love it, but then I wear 2 pieces of heavy armour to begin with. The damage sucks, the speed boost is nice, but the best thing is getting hit by wrecking blow with no ward and taking significantly less damage than I used to. At the very least boundless storm completely negates the major breach and major fracture debuffs, and it will occasionally proc disintegration. So yeah it's good

Waffennacht · December 2015

@FriedEggSandwich @Trihugger @ToRelax and to everyone else

Thanks guys so much, I've only had limited time to play since I've had your gent's wonderful advice, but what I've noted is a marked improvement.

What I did was very limited (I like to do one change at a time or just the right combos to get a feel of what I have changed.)

But what I have atm is:

DW still (a few reasons, like a lvl 40 destro staff and No skill points left or in it)

Switched Mundus to thief (also made me feel good about dropping innerlight)

Still x5Julianos (i like power and it's my all gold set)

But x4. Seducer now (figured I already have it made and a bit more regen is cool)

Dw bar:
Daedric Tomb (it has replaced shattering prison, deals huge damage) Im liking this especially now that I have enough CPs to reduce it's cost to manageable amounts.
Curse
Frag
Hardened
And Mage's Wrath

Overload:
Mage's Wrath
Streak
Power Surge
Hardened
And I forgot

(could put in any suggestions)

Resto staff:
Healing Ward
Blessing of Restoration
Dark Conversion
Power Surge
Streak

Unfortunately I ran outta skill points before I remembered to get another Ult. Would You gents suggest Dawnbreaker or Soul Assault? Once I have access to meteor ill do that but not for a bit.

Mage's Wrath on my main bar, im waffling, its great for a frag proc, however that's not constant. I do love the all sorc skillz bar, and I think ive melted a few peeps cuz of it. But tangling webs can hit for x3 more without a proc and has a snare. Ill test more.

Backup bar is still pretty much same, testin out healin ward, seems to at least Not hinder me lol.

Whatcha gents think my next move or change be?

ToRelax · December 2015

When you are comfortable enough with the Overload bar, I'd try removing Surge from the Resto bar. It takes some practice to remember refreshing the buff that way and use the free moment you have to go into Overload, use any buffs there and out again, but it's worth it.

As for your second ultimate, I'd use Dawnbreaker over Soul Assault for more burst, and it doesn't make you as vulnerable. Once you can land it fast and reliably, Soul Assault doesn't really have much of an advantage.