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Arenas coming? Awesome, but maybe you should do this first..
Alucardo
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Fix the freaking combat.
This is going to be a rant. So if you don't like rants, please look away now. You've been warned.
At its base, ESO has the best combat I've seen in any MMO - it's amazing. Having said that, there's certain things that make it extremely rage quit worthy and unfair. I'm still not getting my full CC immunity from certain attacks, I'm still struggling because B.S nightblades can hide away in cloak while healing. I'm still raging when I get stopped in my tracks during an expensive roll dodge, or fling myself off a cliff when CCs bug out at resources and turns my DK into the fastest thing on the planet.
Please, just fix the combat mechanics before you do anything else. What's the point in adding new PVP content when combat is so broken?
As if Nightblades don't have enough CCs, I ran into one with reverberating bash which was bugging out and I couldn't break free. Then I couldn't break their fear. Don't get me wrong, it's great for saving your stamina, but it's a bit stupid.
Tell me, why would a Nightblade use reverb bash when Soul Harvest also has major defile along with other benefits? Because they know it's broken. They know with reverb bash and fear that's a lot of free hits I can't break from.
Magicka DK needs an execute, badly. I lost count the amount of times I got people down to 20% but couldn't finish them off. They will just cloak and heal. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Vigor should force Nightblades to lose cloak. Period. Now I don't want anything nerfed - I just want things balanced.
With the increased stamina cost on roll dodging, nothing should be going through that. I'm looking at you Templar abilities and magicka nightblades.
Don't even think about keeping snares on gap closers. Why can't they work like projectiles? I don't care if the charge misses and I land somewhere near my target. The idea is to close the gap, not necessarily land right on top of them.
If you hired someone who actually plays ESO to work on combat mechanics, this game would be a lot better. I'd do it for god damn free just to get some decent PVP and balance these classes better. Nightblades are a joke right now. DKs and Templars need to be brought up to speed to combat their bullsh*t.
Another thing that annoys me is the timeframe for these "fixes". We have to wait months and months just to find out it's somehow broken again. When we're talking about core combat functionality, that's a serious issue and needs to be addressed ASAP. Not just "yawn, we'll do it in the next major patch".
I don't care if I don't see new content for another 12 months, if you fix these pressing bugs you will have my respect completely, because then we can start enjoying this game again. Do you not understand how important it is?
STOP BREAKING MY HEART AND LET ME LOVE YOU.
This is going to be a rant. So if you don't like rants, please look away now. You've been warned.
At its base, ESO has the best combat I've seen in any MMO - it's amazing. Having said that, there's certain things that make it extremely rage quit worthy and unfair. I'm still not getting my full CC immunity from certain attacks, I'm still struggling because B.S nightblades can hide away in cloak while healing. I'm still raging when I get stopped in my tracks during an expensive roll dodge, or fling myself off a cliff when CCs bug out at resources and turns my DK into the fastest thing on the planet.
Please, just fix the combat mechanics before you do anything else. What's the point in adding new PVP content when combat is so broken?
As if Nightblades don't have enough CCs, I ran into one with reverberating bash which was bugging out and I couldn't break free. Then I couldn't break their fear. Don't get me wrong, it's great for saving your stamina, but it's a bit stupid.
Tell me, why would a Nightblade use reverb bash when Soul Harvest also has major defile along with other benefits? Because they know it's broken. They know with reverb bash and fear that's a lot of free hits I can't break from.
Magicka DK needs an execute, badly. I lost count the amount of times I got people down to 20% but couldn't finish them off. They will just cloak and heal. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Vigor should force Nightblades to lose cloak. Period. Now I don't want anything nerfed - I just want things balanced.
With the increased stamina cost on roll dodging, nothing should be going through that. I'm looking at you Templar abilities and magicka nightblades.
Don't even think about keeping snares on gap closers. Why can't they work like projectiles? I don't care if the charge misses and I land somewhere near my target. The idea is to close the gap, not necessarily land right on top of them.
If you hired someone who actually plays ESO to work on combat mechanics, this game would be a lot better. I'd do it for god damn free just to get some decent PVP and balance these classes better. Nightblades are a joke right now. DKs and Templars need to be brought up to speed to combat their bullsh*t.
Another thing that annoys me is the timeframe for these "fixes". We have to wait months and months just to find out it's somehow broken again. When we're talking about core combat functionality, that's a serious issue and needs to be addressed ASAP. Not just "yawn, we'll do it in the next major patch".
I don't care if I don't see new content for another 12 months, if you fix these pressing bugs you will have my respect completely, because then we can start enjoying this game again. Do you not understand how important it is?
STOP BREAKING MY HEART AND LET ME LOVE YOU.
5
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But fixing the combat would cause gankers, WB spammers, NBs, and pro-animation cancelers to flood the forums with QQ.2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »But fixing the combat would cause gankers, WB spammers, NBs, and pro-animation cancelers to flood the forums with QQ.
I know man. I'm willing to take the heat for that one when it comes.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree on almost all points (except the hiring part as I know Nothing about the development world)
I really do. The stun/root gap closer is pretty silly, wtf is the point of cc break or cc immunity when two players can permanently bind someone down (or just a huge advantage for the cc gap closer user)
I believe executes should be for each class, only with the class flavor.
I do wonder tho if these issues will be addressed, I mean if they were honest about the class rebalancing, then I could see all changes waiting for that moment to occur.0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm gonna try to reconstruct every I had before I deleted it. And yes, it comes to down to the same things I've been saying over and over again:
- Buff DK and Temps
- Replace Sorc pets with useful skills
- Leave NB untouched
Also, I can't rlly talk for the Templars out there since I never rolled one. But I think I have a pretty good idea of what each class should get and the tweaks they need
Nightblade
- CC fixes for certain skills (to prevent the infinite CC)
- Reduced (NOT 0%) Magicka Regen while Cloaked -> To prevent MagBlades from inf Cloaking
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
Dragonknight
- Turn Stonefist into an Execute ability and give it 1 Stamina and 1 Magicka Morph
- Undo the nerfs of several skills (back to pre 1.3)
- Fix the chains
- (Optional: give Lava Whip a Stam Morph)
Sorcerer
Only change the Sorc needs is the removal of the pet skills (except Atronach, but it'll need an extra effect or 2) and replace those skills with actual useful skills. Direct Damage skills would be a good option, but a Sorc could do with a few damage skills that can beat a DK's Scales.
The Stam Morphs that a Sorc received (Thunderous Presence, Dark Deal, Bound Arnaments) along with Critical Surge make a Stam Sorc viable. But if Mage's Fury received a Stam Morph (and optional Crystal Frags too), then the Sorc would be a truly well balanced class on the same lvl as NB
Templar
Don't know much about Templar, other than the fact that many skills need serious fixing. If someone could pitch in on this that would be muchos appreciatos
Edited by Tryxus on December 20, 2015 6:59PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU2 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have a hard time with rants, OP, so I got about half way through. I tried, I did! xD
But I think I agree with what you're saying. For me it's lag. Above all the other bugs. Can you IMAGINE a lag free Azura's on Friday night!? What joyous rapture there would be!0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
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Nightblade
- Change a few passives from the Assassination and Shadow Skill lines to be only active during stealth (like Pressure Points) but boost them as well to compensate. This to make the NB an actual Assassin/Gank Class
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
- Increase the effects of certain Magicka Morphs so MagBlades can gank on the same lvl as StamBlades (Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan,...)
I cut out everything but the points I'm going to address.
A couple of important things. Function and synergy are more important than feels. There are two game modes PVE and PVP. You have to consider the effect changes will have on both.
Nightblade is only a "gank" class in PVP, there is no direct and viable equivalent in group PVE. So resigning their general passive bonuses to stealth only is going to lower their DPS. Particularly in regards to Stamina builds as they have to focus crit to even try to compete with Magicka builds. It also pigeon holes NB's into a ganking role for PVP. Not all of them are gankers however.
Veiled Strike is a Shadow Skill so either morph can activate Shadow Barrier. It's a rather important synergy for NB's who choose to fight in melee range. Most often utilized by Stamina NB. Removing it will drastically lower a melee ranged NB's mitigation which already took a hit post-IC with the changes to dodge rolling and blocking.
Magicka NB's don't hit as hard as Stamina because their is no phyiscal resistance option from CP. Buff their skills is not going to address that overall imbalance.5 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
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Nightblade
- Change a few passives from the Assassination and Shadow Skill lines to be only active during stealth (like Pressure Points) but boost them as well to compensate. This to make the NB an actual Assassin/Gank Class
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
- Increase the effects of certain Magicka Morphs so MagBlades can gank on the same lvl as StamBlades (Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan,...)
I cut out everything but the points I'm going to address.
A couple of important things. Function and synergy are more important than feels. There are two game modes PVE and PVP. You have to consider the effect changes will have on both.
Nightblade is only a "gank" class in PVP, there is no direct and viable equivalent in group PVE. So resigning their general passive bonuses to stealth only is going to lower their DPS. Particularly in regards to Stamina builds as they have to focus crit to even try to compete with Magicka builds. It also pigeon holes NB's into a ganking role for PVP. Not all of them are gankers however.
Veiled Strike is a Shadow Skill so either morph can activate Shadow Barrier. It's a rather important synergy for NB's who choose to fight in melee range. Most often utilized by Stamina NB. Removing it will drastically lower a melee ranged NB's mitigation which already took a hit post-IC with the changes to dodge rolling and blocking.
Magicka NB's don't hit as hard as Stamina because their is no phyiscal resistance option from CP. Buff their skills is not going to address that overall imbalance.
1. Yeah, I'm kinda aware that if the NB's passives get more stealth oriented, that their PvE capacities will take a hit. Less crit, less regen etc will lower the DPS output. Not to mention it'll make the NB pretty one dimensional in PvP
The reason I made that suggestion was because the other classes or other skill line passives need certain requirements before the effect activates. I felt that if the NB gets an overhaul with the Major Rebalancing next month that a stealth approach might put us on equal footing with the other classes. Plus with the Thieves Guild and DB being released, it's possible that stealth gets some extra addition that could be of use in PvE too.
2. But if those skills are swapped, it does boost crit chance as well. I'm kinda thinking like: all out offense while ganking (+ crit % from Assassination passive) and if it fails then Cloak (+ get armor buff from Shadow). Personally I think this would make more sense.
3. So instead of that, CP needs a new perk?"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Nightblade
- Change a few passives from the Assassination and Shadow Skill lines to be only active during stealth (like Pressure Points) but boost them as well to compensate. This to make the NB an actual Assassin/Gank Class
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
- Increase the effects of certain Magicka Morphs so MagBlades can gank on the same lvl as StamBlades (Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan,...)
I cut out everything but the points I'm going to address.
A couple of important things. Function and synergy are more important than feels. There are two game modes PVE and PVP. You have to consider the effect changes will have on both.
Nightblade is only a "gank" class in PVP, there is no direct and viable equivalent in group PVE. So resigning their general passive bonuses to stealth only is going to lower their DPS. Particularly in regards to Stamina builds as they have to focus crit to even try to compete with Magicka builds. It also pigeon holes NB's into a ganking role for PVP. Not all of them are gankers however.
Veiled Strike is a Shadow Skill so either morph can activate Shadow Barrier. It's a rather important synergy for NB's who choose to fight in melee range. Most often utilized by Stamina NB. Removing it will drastically lower a melee ranged NB's mitigation which already took a hit post-IC with the changes to dodge rolling and blocking.
Magicka NB's don't hit as hard as Stamina because their is no phyiscal resistance option from CP. Buff their skills is not going to address that overall imbalance.
I agree.
My nbs are tank, stam werewolf and magicka dd. I like nbs for their versatility and dont want them to be reduced to typical rogue/ganker stereotype. Not to mention that stealth/ganking playstyle is absolutely useless in pve.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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But stealth is just one of nbs abilities, and not all nb players like it. They're also heavily based on siphoning magic. What about nb warlocks, healers and tanks?
Nightblade
- Change a few passives from the Assassination and Shadow Skill lines to be only active during stealth (like Pressure Points) but boost them as well to compensate. This to make the NB an actual Assassin/Gank Class
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
- Increase the effects of certain Magicka Morphs so MagBlades can gank on the same lvl as StamBlades (Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan,...)
I cut out everything but the points I'm going to address.
A couple of important things. Function and synergy are more important than feels. There are two game modes PVE and PVP. You have to consider the effect changes will have on both.
Nightblade is only a "gank" class in PVP, there is no direct and viable equivalent in group PVE. So resigning their general passive bonuses to stealth only is going to lower their DPS. Particularly in regards to Stamina builds as they have to focus crit to even try to compete with Magicka builds. It also pigeon holes NB's into a ganking role for PVP. Not all of them are gankers however.
Veiled Strike is a Shadow Skill so either morph can activate Shadow Barrier. It's a rather important synergy for NB's who choose to fight in melee range. Most often utilized by Stamina NB. Removing it will drastically lower a melee ranged NB's mitigation which already took a hit post-IC with the changes to dodge rolling and blocking.
Magicka NB's don't hit as hard as Stamina because their is no phyiscal resistance option from CP. Buff their skills is not going to address that overall imbalance.
The reason I made that suggestion was because the other classes or other skill line passives need certain requirements before the effect activates. I felt that if the NB gets an overhaul with the Major Rebalancing next month that a stealth approach might put us on equal footing with the other classes. Plus with the Thieves Guild and DB being released, it's possible that stealth gets some extra addition that could be of use in PvE too.
I'm starting to think that pvp system should use different damage/resist formulas than pve...
3. So instead of that, CP needs a new perk?Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
But stealth is just one of nbs abilities, and not all nb players like it. They're also heavily based on siphoning magic. What about nb warlocks, healers and tanks?
Nightblade
- Change a few passives from the Assassination and Shadow Skill lines to be only active during stealth (like Pressure Points) but boost them as well to compensate. This to make the NB an actual Assassin/Gank Class
- Swap Blur and Veiled Strike (Blur to Shadow and Veiled Strike to Assassination) since it makes more sense for an Evasion skill to be a Shadow ability and a Weapon skill to be Assassination
- Increase the effects of certain Magicka Morphs so MagBlades can gank on the same lvl as StamBlades (Concealed Weapon, Lotus Fan,...)
I cut out everything but the points I'm going to address.
A couple of important things. Function and synergy are more important than feels. There are two game modes PVE and PVP. You have to consider the effect changes will have on both.
Nightblade is only a "gank" class in PVP, there is no direct and viable equivalent in group PVE. So resigning their general passive bonuses to stealth only is going to lower their DPS. Particularly in regards to Stamina builds as they have to focus crit to even try to compete with Magicka builds. It also pigeon holes NB's into a ganking role for PVP. Not all of them are gankers however.
Veiled Strike is a Shadow Skill so either morph can activate Shadow Barrier. It's a rather important synergy for NB's who choose to fight in melee range. Most often utilized by Stamina NB. Removing it will drastically lower a melee ranged NB's mitigation which already took a hit post-IC with the changes to dodge rolling and blocking.
Magicka NB's don't hit as hard as Stamina because their is no phyiscal resistance option from CP. Buff their skills is not going to address that overall imbalance.
The reason I made that suggestion was because the other classes or other skill line passives need certain requirements before the effect activates. I felt that if the NB gets an overhaul with the Major Rebalancing next month that a stealth approach might put us on equal footing with the other classes. Plus with the Thieves Guild and DB being released, it's possible that stealth gets some extra addition that could be of use in PvE too.
I hate cloak. I use it because it works, but I would much prefer a shield. If the class were pigeonholed like this I would be upset to say the least...This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Outsider wrote: »I have a hard time with rants, OP, so I got about half way through. I tried, I did! xD
But I think I agree with what you're saying. For me it's lag. Above all the other bugs. Can you IMAGINE a lag free Azura's on Friday night!? What joyous rapture there would be!
Lol I appreciate you trying at least. I did leave the warning at the top for those who don't do well with ranting
Lag is an issue, yeah, but Brian has addressed it publicly, told us what's happening and that it is actively being worked on. That's really all we could ask for at this point.
The rant was about class balance and faulty mechanics, Wroble's area. We have no idea what he's planning to do, or if he's even working on it. We're completely in the dark. This is the problem. Things need to be fixed before they bother adding battlegrounds, arenas and duelling, because what's the point when we still have broken skills and classes that make you feel gimped (Mag DK for example) against stronger ones.0 -
ajwest927✭✭✭I don't care if I don't see new content for another 12 months, if you fix these pressing bugs you will have my respect completely, because then we can start enjoying this game again. Do you not understand how important it is?
STOP BREAKING MY HEART AND LET ME LOVE YOU.
I'm sure you and most people would stop playing, cancel their subscription, and complain if there is no new content release in a reasonable timely manner.0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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I can't vouch for "most people", but I wouldn't. Imperial City could use some tweaks, but overall I enjoy it. If anything is going to make me quit it would be if class balance wasn't addressed promptly.I'm sure you and most people would stop playing, cancel their subscription, and complain if there is no new content release in a reasonable timely manner.
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Barlthump✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »But fixing the combat would cause gankers, WB spammers, NBs, and pro-animation cancelers to flood the forums with QQ.
I totally agree. I'll add on to this as well. Don't allow shield stacking! Shields must be crit-able and dot-able. Max shield health cannot exceed 20% of your chars max HP. Bastion should not allow someone to have Shields more than their max HP. When all these are implemented, maybe then we can talk about balance.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
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2. But if those skills are swapped, it does boost crit chance as well. I'm kinda thinking like: all out offense while ganking (+ crit % from Assassination passive) and if it fails then Cloak (+ get armor buff from Shadow). Personally I think this would make more sense.
One of the Blur morphs (Mirage) gives you minor ward and minor resolve. Shadow barrier gives you major ward and major resolve. So the morph is pointless. Unless you change that morph, it cannot go to then shadow tree,Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »I thought you said this wouldn't be a rant..
I said the contrary actually
YOU WERE WARNED0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭So you think every class should have basically the same abilities like executes? I don't know. Then can other classes all have reflect abilities and self-heals? It's a slippery slope. How come DKs should get aspects of other classes, but other classes not get the advantages of DKs then?0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm going to use the term "spec". This defines the use of both magicka and stamina version of classes.So you think every class should have basically the same abilities like executes? I don't know. Then can other classes all have reflect abilities and self-heals? It's a slippery slope. How come DKs should get aspects of other classes, but other classes not get the advantages of DKs then?
Execute is a pretty standard feature of every single spec with the exception of Magicka DK. Considering they also have some of the lowest DPS in PVP, this is a huge issue. They have no way of "closing the deal".
Stamina DKs have access to Executioner, so it's a non-issue for them, but a Magicka DK really needs that final burst to help compete properly.0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeI should also add, @Wrobel why can't you do what Brian did? He answered many of the questions PVPers had about the Cyrodiil. Please, update us on class balance. What are you planning? Give us some hope for the future at the very least.
That would be a great idea, however, this would actually mean that he has to know what he is doing. Which he clearly does not.
I still laugh my ass off from last time "We got smth guuud for Stam Sorcs coming, Thundering Presence"
Now 90% of Stam Sorcs use the Magicka Morph hahahahahttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭If 4v4 and similar arenas launched today they would suck.
Would be nothing but a burst race, NB gank patrol, camo huntard spambush marathon.
Loads of rebalancing is needed for arenas to work well for different types of builds and classes. In other games with instanced PvP, the TTK is much higher and you also have defensive cooldowns when focused. You have viable sustain builds. You even have tank- and cc builds with a purpose.
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