Sharkano wrote: »

Yup, sure it will all work just fine, like everything else here.

It sounds like you need to spend some time cooling down. Not trying to be condescending or anything, but when I catch myself saying such pessimistic things like this I know it's time to get off the forums for a break (or focus my anger towards something more worthy of it).

@Sharkano

when Vr was introduced it was with cadwells, vet dungeon? and VR10? then craglorn VR12? then VR14 dsa/trials? and VR16 IC. This is a year and a bit on? that rate of progression would put us to what VR 24 next year. This becomes a very daunting mountain for new players. I know a lot of console playes were put off when they hit Vet.

and what can they do constantly raise VR ranks and reduce Xp requirements so its not so daunting for new players but that just means each time the existing players get those 2 extra VR ranks even quicker. and new players get a larger and larger slog. The system was unsustainable, and bad for the games health.

The CP system change comes on the back of the catch up system. By removing Flat XP scaling and using a curve that scales based on the cap they can maintain player progression but also ensure the total XP to reach max gear requirements is kept at that constant 15 million XP mark. whether the gear requires 160CP or 240CP in a years time.

in addition to streamlining to one system using CP instead of balancing two mechanics VR rank and CP you get the added bonus of being able to create an alt and use it in much less time. which is of benefit, mroe people play other classes the less call there is for nerf this nerf that because people will actually see the skills and classes from first hand experience and not just when they die to it.

finally CP cap and catch up is necessary because to design challenging content for long term players (PC) and not impossible content for newer players (console) there needs to be a way to close the gap and restrict the disparity between new and old CP counts.

Frawr wrote: »

I haven't read all of the responses.

Op

The original game design was for it to end at 50. VR was an afterthought as an add on to satisfy the clamour for 2 things

1. We want to do everything on 1 char
2. We want to have stuff to do after we reach level 50

There are 2 games in eso: the single player/coop story game and the 'e-sports' pvp.

Changing the vr system to cp system means that the pvp players are only required to level an alt to 50 before they can be competitive. This means much shorter grind time than levelling the alt to vr16.

Changing the vr system has no material impact on the pve solo/coop game because everyone has CP as the alternative advancement from level 50.

In summary,

Removal of VR makes pvp/altoholics more accessible while making to real difference to pve.

Some win, no one loses. Good change.

Actually there are losers, notably those altoholics who want to level up their characters through individual advancement and not through the application of "account-wide leveling".

Frawr wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I haven't read all of the responses.

Op

The original game design was for it to end at 50. VR was an afterthought as an add on to satisfy the clamour for 2 things

1. We want to do everything on 1 char
2. We want to have stuff to do after we reach level 50

There are 2 games in eso: the single player/coop story game and the 'e-sports' pvp.

Changing the vr system to cp system means that the pvp players are only required to level an alt to 50 before they can be competitive. This means much shorter grind time than levelling the alt to vr16.

Changing the vr system has no material impact on the pve solo/coop game because everyone has CP as the alternative advancement from level 50.

In summary,

Removal of VR makes pvp/altoholics more accessible while making to real difference to pve.

Some win, no one loses. Good change.

Actually there are losers, notably those altoholics who want to level up their characters through individual advancement and not through the application of "account-wide leveling".

They have the same access to the same content and will experience progression for doing the contwnt. What have they lost?

In one sense you're right, in that they already have account-wide access to CPs, but that's only as a part of the leveling process and currently they still get leveled individually from 50 to VR16. Under the new system, they'll have the same content but the account-wide CPs will be the only form of leveling they will get. If the change benefits those who don't want to put in individual character leveling after 50 then by simple definition it must also disadvantage those who do want to do so.

Tandor wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I haven't read all of the responses.

Op

The original game design was for it to end at 50. VR was an afterthought as an add on to satisfy the clamour for 2 things

1. We want to do everything on 1 char
2. We want to have stuff to do after we reach level 50

There are 2 games in eso: the single player/coop story game and the 'e-sports' pvp.

Changing the vr system to cp system means that the pvp players are only required to level an alt to 50 before they can be competitive. This means much shorter grind time than levelling the alt to vr16.

Changing the vr system has no material impact on the pve solo/coop game because everyone has CP as the alternative advancement from level 50.

In summary,

Removal of VR makes pvp/altoholics more accessible while making to real difference to pve.

Some win, no one loses. Good change.

Actually there are losers, notably those altoholics who want to level up their characters through individual advancement and not through the application of "account-wide leveling".

They have the same access to the same content and will experience progression for doing the contwnt. What have they lost?

In one sense you're right, in that they already have account-wide access to CPs, but that's only as a part of the leveling process and currently they still get leveled individually from 50 to VR16. Under the new system, they'll have the same content but the account-wide CPs will be the only form of leveling they will get. If the change benefits those who don't want to put in individual character leveling after 50 then by simple definition it must also disadvantage those who do want to do so.

There is no direct link meaning that 1 persons advantage must be another's disadvantage.

In the new system, you can have 1 char or 8 chars and all benefit equally from the progress that you make on any of them.

If you only have 1 char and wish to experience all content on that one char then there is no impact on your game (except for 15 extra light shows).

If you have multiple, and you wish to run all of them through all of the (same) content then you are also free to do that, as you are now.

The key difference is that the group of players who wish to do the e-sports side of the game do not want to be forced to repeat the entire content each time. I am sure that you will agree that forcing them to do this adds absolutely nothing to the game.

Those who will benefit are those who don't want to repeat content (and currently get around it by grind mobs anyway).

Therefore, the only difference that I can really see is a time saving for some players.

Please tell me what you don't like about this because I am struggling to see a downside.

Tandor wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Removing VR because :
- Player base demanded it.
- It makes leveling easier and the whole game coding simpler long term (ie not having 2 level counts anymore, just Levels and one simple "veteran status" once you hit 50
- Did i mention that player base demanded it real hard back then ? Rly, search the forums

None of that explains why it wouldn't make more sense to call VR1-16 levels 51-66 instead, from either the players' or developers' point of view.

I understand the antagonism towards Cadwells, I share it, it makes no sense whatsoever and I don't have any wish to do it, but removing a seperate high-end leveling system entirely makes no more sense than having it in the first place, while replacing it with an extension of the standard leveling system makes far more sense - and provides proper scope for further extensions of the levels with future DLCs.

Level 51-66 = Alt Dependant
CS = Player dependant.

But yes.....if CS is just another power levelling (verical) rather than skill levelling (horizontal) exercise then you might as well just keep 51-66.

Sharkano wrote: »

It's level 50-66. The fact that levels require more xp (though nerfed) does not change it to level 210 lol. Just watch guys who have low cp scream when they change to a cp-based system and their gear won't work anymore. Then we will hear all the usual crap about how a guy who just started two weeks ago should be equal to those who played for a year, yada yada, yada. The whole thing is just one more buffoonery parade here . . . .

It's really not level 50-66. If that's you're understanding, I don't believe you'll be taken seriously in the VR removal discussions. No disrespect intended but it's not at all comparable or similar

I agree with this post 100 %. It's so confusing and it really holds me back in crafting my endgear. Because: For what?! I spent all these mats and gold on this 'endgear' just to deconstruct it later on again? Okay it's a bit 'early' to ring the bell for this and we better all just do our business in Tamriel. But yeah gearwise the vet removal has a lot of questions to be asked.

On the other hand though, I wish that they just keep the system how it is now. Keep the veteran ranks until 16 and focus on optimisation of the game and add new area's. Add new area's (that are level-scaled) or make Silver & Gold Cadwell level-scaled.

They are paying high price of not having anykind of endgame structure for the game at launch, but nevertheless I think they are taking this game forward pretty good. VRs were excellent idea at launch, they tripled their content.

The simple answer is they want to convulate levels and level caps with a point system that is suppose to make end game gear easier for them to design....

Instead of designing new end game gear for a higher level cap, let's say an increase from 50-60 - they want to make it so we're all still level 50, then put a Champion Point cap on new items while progressively making our characters slightly more powerful every CP point spent.

It's really the same system as increasing level caps, they just have to make it more complicated because well they're new at MMOs and maybe because they think their system will make designing new content easier.