[Mag NB] Fire Staff vs 2H Sword

KYNG · December 2015

I already have DW for AoE bar.

I wana know if I'm better off with 2H Sword over a Destruction Staff since my single target bar spells do more damage with 2H.
This is for PvE. Also have passives for both weapons.

My ST bar is:
Merciless Resolve
Implale
Funnel Health
Inner Light
Cripple Grasp

I know I should use staff for MR proc (LA from a distance is safer) but with the guessing game with timers I end up just using MR for the buff. Maybe when lag gets fixed i'll use proc or we get timers.

I'm on console btw.

DannyLV702 · December 2015

Dual wield gives you more spell damage than 2h, so you can forget about 2h. For pve content, a destruction staff is usually preferred from what I've seen.

DannyLV702 · December 2015

Wait, I just re-read your post and now I'm confused lol. You're a magic NB, but you have dual wield for aoe?

ku5h · December 2015

If you go for staff option, my sugjestion is to go resto staff since it benefits form thaumaturge where you probably put most of your CP.

d8rmir · December 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Wait, I just re-read your post and now I'm confused lol. You're a magic NB, but you have dual wield for aoe?

Cool, like...all magicka NBs!

ku5h wrote: »

If you go for staff option, my sugjestion is to go resto staff since it benefits form thaumaturge where you probably put most of your CP.

This is not the first time I find this suggestion, but I see that inferno staff is used in the best builds around... does resto actually work? Can you medium weave with a resto staff?

Schemering · December 2015

I tried dw and 2hand on single target bar but i did more damage on single target light weaving with a resto torugs pact nirnhoned staff (about 2750 spelldamage unbuffed) Now i got a sharpened maelstrom frost staff (>3000spelldamage now) that does way more damage than dw/2h and also more that my torugs pact staff

btw you might consider putting impale on your aoe bar with more spelldamage, you wont be using the other skills while finishing as impale does more damage and it makes room for inner light in for 10pct crit and extra magicka twice (skill bonus and mages guild passive) so more damage

Schemering · December 2015

sry read too fast i also have entropy on st bar extra

Reorx_Holybeard · December 2015

I did a few quick tests on my Magicka Nightbuild to get a better sense of things. Basic method was using different weapons with the same skill rotation (unless noted): Merciless Resolve + LA + Funnel Health + LA + FH + LA + FH + LA + MR Proc on the Giants and Mammoths in Wrothgar. Keep in mind these are short fights (10 sec) so only enough time for one MR proc.

Inferno Destruction Staff

DPS: 14k
DPS with just FH + LA: 13k
DPS with just FH: 11k
Average LA Dmg: 4000
Full HA Dmg: 7200
FH Tooltip: 6793
Note: This is my usual setup and it is easy to maintain range and fight without getting hit.

Restoration Staff

DPS: 11k
Average LA Dmg: 0 (see below)
Full HA Dmg: 4000
FH Tooltip: 6793
Note: A restoration staff attacks differently than destruction staff so you can weave LA and proc Merciless Resolve without actually doing any damage with the LA.

2H Sword

DPS: 11k
Average LA Dmg: 1500
Full HA Dmg: 3500
FH Tooltip: 7426
Note: Noticeably hard to weave as you have to wait a bit longer for the attack.

Dual Wield

DPS: 13k
Average LA Dmg: 1100
Full HA Dmg: 3500
FH Tooltip: 7465
Note: Easier to weave than the 2H Sword due to quick attacks but for low damage.

In my book Destruction Staff is a winner not just due to more damage (twice the damage the other weapons give from LAs) but it lets you attack from range and is much easier to avoid damage. The 2H Sword and Dual Wield have higher tooltips but are harder to weave due to needing to be at melee range and do a lot less damage due to being a Magicka based build.

I would say if you can weave Light Attacks relatively well you should do better with the Destruction Staff. If you're lagged or cannot weave well it will probably be worth it to stick to 2H Sword or Dual Wield for the higher tooltips and stick to spell casting and not weave at all.

kaithuzar · December 2015

You have to have some type of defensive ability if you're going to pvp. In pve, you can rock duel wield + destro.
In pvp most people duel wield + resto, although I'm trying to make duel wield + s&b more viable but need more cp =/
Destro + resto is an old favorite being done back in the day but most people have chosen duel wield over destro due to the increase in spell dmg however I think destro gives increased pen or something via the passives.

Kutsuu · December 2015

I'd listen to what Mashinate has to say: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-magicka-dps-by-iwm/

DW/destro seems to be the go-to for PVE DPS.

KYNG · December 2015

Thank you for all the feed back guys.

KYNG · December 2015

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

I did a few quick tests on my Magicka Nightbuild to get a better sense of things. Basic method was using different weapons with the same skill rotation (unless noted): Merciless Resolve + LA + Funnel Health + LA + FH + LA + FH + LA + MR Proc on the Giants and Mammoths in Wrothgar. Keep in mind these are short fights (10 sec) so only enough time for one MR proc.

Inferno Destruction Staff
DPS: 14k

DPS with just FH + LA: 13k

DPS with just FH: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 4000

Full HA Dmg: 7200

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: This is my usual setup and it is easy to maintain range and fight without getting hit.

Restoration Staff
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 0 (see below)

Full HA Dmg: 4000

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: A restoration staff attacks differently than destruction staff so you can weave LA and proc Merciless Resolve without actually doing any damage with the LA.

2H Sword
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 1500

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7426

Note: Noticeably hard to weave as you have to wait a bit longer for the attack.

Dual Wield
DPS: 13k

Average LA Dmg: 1100

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7465

Note: Easier to weave than the 2H Sword due to quick attacks but for low damage.

In my book Destruction Staff is a winner not just due to more damage (twice the damage the other weapons give from LAs) but it lets you attack from range and is much easier to avoid damage. The 2H Sword and Dual Wield have higher tooltips but are harder to weave due to needing to be at melee range and do a lot less damage due to being a Magicka based build.

I would say if you can weave Light Attacks relatively well you should do better with the Destruction Staff. If you're lagged or cannot weave well it will probably be worth it to stick to 2H Sword or Dual Wield for the higher tooltips and stick to spell casting and not weave at all.

This is what I was looking for, consoles have ZERO addons so can only go off tool tips.

I got caught up in 2H Swords passive damage buff over destro, since all I can go off are tooltips, not like I can self test and get actual damage numbers.

But I agree, with the staff being safer and not getting hit since I spam FH.
Although I need to consider the lag on consoles, servers are pretty bad. Few things to ponder and consider.
Thanks again.

How does a destro staff benefit from magicka?

KYNG · December 2015

Kutsuu wrote: »

I'd listen to what Mashinate has to say: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-magicka-dps-by-iwm/

DW/destro seems to be the go-to for PVE DPS.

Is that still relevant even if its not up to date?

Reeko · December 2015

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

KYNG · December 2015

Still practicing my weaves. Hard to time properly all the time when ESO servers are garbage for people not playing in the US.

Need a latency meter.

Just did a few practice weaves now, lag is terrible atm.

Just to clarify, med weave is when I hold down melee button for chaarged attack, release before full charge is complete, then Funnel?
I need to see 2 fire balls shoot out. Correct ?

Eejit1331 · December 2015

ku5h wrote: »

If you go for staff option, my sugjestion is to go resto staff since it benefits form thaumaturge where you probably put most of your CP.

This is what I did, I only light weave and I have molag kena proc on, most of the time

Schemering · December 2015

correct you see two fireballs instead of one

KYNG · December 2015

Schemering wrote: »

correct you see two fireballs instead of one

Its actually not hard, only when the game lags. Which happens too often.

Trying to pratice kiting and weaving, not the easiest on a controller.
Face buttons take my finger off right stick.

KYNG · December 2015

ku5h wrote: »

If you go for staff option, my sugjestion is to go resto staff since it benefits form thaumaturge where you probably put most of your CP.

Destro doesnt benefit from thaum? Odd

Reeko · December 2015

KYNG wrote: »

Schemering wrote: »

correct you see two fireballs instead of one

Its actual not hard, only when the game lags. Which happens too often.

Trying to pratice kiting and weaving, not the easiest on a controller.
Face buttons take my finger off right stick.

I have FH on my R1 button. So its press R1 then immediatly hold R2 till FH animation is over. Then release and immediatly press R1. Repeat.

Put your most used skils on R1 and L1 so you dont have to lift your thumb for te face buttons

KYNG · December 2015

Thats

Reeko wrote: »

KYNG wrote: »

Schemering wrote: »

correct you see two fireballs instead of one

Its actual not hard, only when the game lags. Which happens too often.

Trying to pratice kiting and weaving, not the easiest on a controller.
Face buttons take my finger off right stick.

I have FH on my R1 button. So its press R1 then immediatly hold R2 till FH animation is over. Then release and immediatly press R1. Repeat.

Put your most used skils on R1 and L1 so you dont have to lift your thumb for te face buttons

Thats what i have done, but FH is L1.

Hmm, I was starting with hold R2, when i see start of charge animation release quickly followed by L1 for FH.

I'll try your way, was I doing it wrong?

Reeko · December 2015

KYNG wrote: »

Thats

Reeko wrote: »

KYNG wrote: »

Schemering wrote: »

correct you see two fireballs instead of one

Its actual not hard, only when the game lags. Which happens too often.

Trying to pratice kiting and weaving, not the easiest on a controller.
Face buttons take my finger off right stick.

I have FH on my R1 button. So its press R1 then immediatly hold R2 till FH animation is over. Then release and immediatly press R1. Repeat.

Put your most used skils on R1 and L1 so you dont have to lift your thumb for te face buttons

Thats what i have done, but FH is L1.

Hmm, I was starting with hold R2, when i see start of charge animation release quickly followed by L1 for FH.

I'll try your way, was I doing it wrong?

That works too i just like to start with FH to get that hot going immediatly. Or i'll open with a heavy atk from stealth.

KYNG · December 2015

Thanks again for all the feedback.
Very helpful community.
I recently turned vr 16, and the closer I get to getting materials needed for vr 16 gold gear the more I want to determine the most efficient way to play. Dont want to waste materials building test gold gear.

I only played around with weaving before since lag ruins the timing, but I'll try it out more.

d8rmir · December 2015

KYNG wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

I'd listen to what Mashinate has to say: http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-magicka-dps-by-iwm/

DW/destro seems to be the go-to for PVE DPS.

Is that still relevant even if its not up to date?

Yes.
The updated version is Blackrooxe's http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/magicka-nightblade-dps-for-2-2/ , since now Mashinate is playing DK, but they are basically the same...

mr_wazzabi · December 2015

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

I did a few quick tests on my Magicka Nightbuild to get a better sense of things. Basic method was using different weapons with the same skill rotation (unless noted): Merciless Resolve + LA + Funnel Health + LA + FH + LA + FH + LA + MR Proc on the Giants and Mammoths in Wrothgar. Keep in mind these are short fights (10 sec) so only enough time for one MR proc.

Inferno Destruction Staff
DPS: 14k

DPS with just FH + LA: 13k

DPS with just FH: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 4000

Full HA Dmg: 7200

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: This is my usual setup and it is easy to maintain range and fight without getting hit.

Restoration Staff
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 0 (see below)

Full HA Dmg: 4000

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: A restoration staff attacks differently than destruction staff so you can weave LA and proc Merciless Resolve without actually doing any damage with the LA.

2H Sword
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 1500

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7426

Note: Noticeably hard to weave as you have to wait a bit longer for the attack.

Dual Wield
DPS: 13k

Average LA Dmg: 1100

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7465

Note: Easier to weave than the 2H Sword due to quick attacks but for low damage.

In my book Destruction Staff is a winner not just due to more damage (twice the damage the other weapons give from LAs) but it lets you attack from range and is much easier to avoid damage. The 2H Sword and Dual Wield have higher tooltips but are harder to weave due to needing to be at melee range and do a lot less damage due to being a Magicka based build.

I would say if you can weave Light Attacks relatively well you should do better with the Destruction Staff. If you're lagged or cannot weave well it will probably be worth it to stick to 2H Sword or Dual Wield for the higher tooltips and stick to spell casting and not weave at all.

How are your cp's like?
100 tham and 30 elemental expert?

Maybe your destro light attacks are stronger because of elemental expert

Xvorg · December 2015

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

I did a few quick tests on my Magicka Nightbuild to get a better sense of things. Basic method was using different weapons with the same skill rotation (unless noted): Merciless Resolve + LA + Funnel Health + LA + FH + LA + FH + LA + MR Proc on the Giants and Mammoths in Wrothgar. Keep in mind these are short fights (10 sec) so only enough time for one MR proc.

Inferno Destruction Staff
DPS: 14k

DPS with just FH + LA: 13k

DPS with just FH: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 4000

Full HA Dmg: 7200

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: This is my usual setup and it is easy to maintain range and fight without getting hit.

Restoration Staff
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 0 (see below)

Full HA Dmg: 4000

FH Tooltip: 6793

Note: A restoration staff attacks differently than destruction staff so you can weave LA and proc Merciless Resolve without actually doing any damage with the LA.

2H Sword
DPS: 11k

Average LA Dmg: 1500

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7426

Note: Noticeably hard to weave as you have to wait a bit longer for the attack.

Dual Wield
DPS: 13k

Average LA Dmg: 1100

Full HA Dmg: 3500

FH Tooltip: 7465

Note: Easier to weave than the 2H Sword due to quick attacks but for low damage.

In my book Destruction Staff is a winner not just due to more damage (twice the damage the other weapons give from LAs) but it lets you attack from range and is much easier to avoid damage. The 2H Sword and Dual Wield have higher tooltips but are harder to weave due to needing to be at melee range and do a lot less damage due to being a Magicka based build.

I would say if you can weave Light Attacks relatively well you should do better with the Destruction Staff. If you're lagged or cannot weave well it will probably be worth it to stick to 2H Sword or Dual Wield for the higher tooltips and stick to spell casting and not weave at all.

How are your cp's like?
100 tham and 30 elemental expert?

Maybe your destro light attacks are stronger because of elemental expert

Yup, my resto does waaaaay more dmg than those 4k, because everything goes to thaum.

unless the test was done with 0 CP, and no set

Resipsa131 · December 2015

Reeko wrote: »

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

I cured my vampirism after 1.7 and run dawnbreaker on my single target bar but otherwise that's basically my set up. I have 5 pieces of TBS with Thief and Shadow mundus, Molag Kena Shoulders, Torugs Pact hat, Torugs pact inferno staff Nirn , Torugs Pact Swords Nirn

KYNG · December 2015

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

I cured my vampirism after 1.7 and run dawnbreaker on my single target bar but otherwise that's basically my set up. I have 5 pieces of TBS with Thief and Shadow mundus, Molag Kena Shoulders, Torugs Pact hat, Torugs pact inferno staff Nirn , Torugs Pact Swords Nirn

Why did you cure your vamp? I have it right now, was leveling it for pvp later.

Resipsa131 · December 2015

KYNG wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

I cured my vampirism after 1.7 and run dawnbreaker on my single target bar but otherwise that's basically my set up. I have 5 pieces of TBS with Thief and Shadow mundus, Molag Kena Shoulders, Torugs Pact hat, Torugs pact inferno staff Nirn , Torugs Pact Swords Nirn

Why did you cure your vamp? I have it right now, was leveling it for pvp later.

I have it maxed leveled but I got to the point where it was no longer useful with enough CP into reduced magicka cost and magicka regen the benefits no longer outweigh the costs of slotting a vampire abilities and taking more fire damage.

KYNG · December 2015

Resipsa131 wrote: »

KYNG wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

I cured my vampirism after 1.7 and run dawnbreaker on my single target bar but otherwise that's basically my set up. I have 5 pieces of TBS with Thief and Shadow mundus, Molag Kena Shoulders, Torugs Pact hat, Torugs pact inferno staff Nirn , Torugs Pact Swords Nirn

Why did you cure your vamp? I have it right now, was leveling it for pvp later.

I have it maxed leveled but I got to the point where it was no longer useful with enough CP into reduced magicka cost and magicka regen the benefits no longer outweigh the costs of slotting a vampire abilities and taking more fire damage.

How many cps we talking here?
Being a vamp is bad when i do undaunted dailies, so much fire damage even with cp and fire resist on neck. But bats are strong, nice sneak speed too

Resipsa131 · December 2015

KYNG wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

KYNG wrote: »

Resipsa131 wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

Put impale on your aoe DW bar.

When i pve on my magicka nb i use inferno/dw

Nirnhoned Inferno:
Structured Entropy
Inner Light
Crippling Grasp
Funnel Health
Mercilous Resolve (no guessing at timer just shoot and re-apply as soon as it procs)
Ult: Ice Comet

Nirnhoned DW:
Siphoning Attacks
Sap Essence
Twisting Path
Inner Light
Impale
Ult: Clouding Swarm or Veil of Blades

Buff up with resolve then open with entropy and cripple then medium attack weave FH till resolve procs. Shoot, med attack, re-apply, med attack, FH. After the second resolve proc re-apply entropy and cripple. Med attack weave everything! At 25% swap and spam impale till dead.

For aoe i usually open with resolve then entropy, swap, twisting, siphon, spam sap while holding block.

I am on PS4 EP msg Jomega1212 if you have more questions

I cured my vampirism after 1.7 and run dawnbreaker on my single target bar but otherwise that's basically my set up. I have 5 pieces of TBS with Thief and Shadow mundus, Molag Kena Shoulders, Torugs Pact hat, Torugs pact inferno staff Nirn , Torugs Pact Swords Nirn

Why did you cure your vamp? I have it right now, was leveling it for pvp later.

I have it maxed leveled but I got to the point where it was no longer useful with enough CP into reduced magicka cost and magicka regen the benefits no longer outweigh the costs of slotting a vampire abilities and taking more fire damage.

How many cps we talking here?
Being a vamp is bad when i do undaunted dailies, so much fire damage even with cp and fire resist on neck. But bats are strong, nice sneak speed too

300 or so