Animation improvements for Melee weapon abilities.

Kuroinu · October 2015

I recently started playing around with Stamina builds after using only Magicka builds for a very long time. Previously I used mainly Destruction and Healing Staves, but I've now been trying out Dual Wield, Two Handed and One Hand & Shield.

When I was using the Destruction staves, I liked the fact that depending on the element of the staff you had equipped the visual effect, sound effect and utility of the ability would change. However, what I've noticed with most Melee weapon abilities is that they are all correctly animated towards Blades(Daggers, Swords and Greatswords), but the other weapon types(Axes, Maces, Battleaxes and Mauls) also use these animations. The swing animations are fine and work for all weapons. But needless to say, it looks rather odd when I'm using an axe or mace type weapon and executing a skill that's motion is that of a thrust or stab.

After a little research, I was surprised to find that all Two Handed weapon abilities use the swing animation and thus don't really require any animation change. I believe it really comes down to at least 2 abilities looking odd when using axe and mace type weapons, and these abilities would be: Flurry from the Dual Wield skill line and Puncture from the One Hand & Shield skill line. Since I done most of this research as a Sorcerer, I cannot comment on abilities specific to other Classes.

I was originally only going to concern this thread with the animations of certain abilities when using certain weapons, but the idea to incorporate the Destruction stave system/style seems like a really interesting idea that could make these Skill lines more interesting to play around with. To be more clear, Destruction stave abilities change their visual effects, functionality and name depending on element. So perhaps with Melee weapons we could also have this type of system depending on weapon type.

For Example: The Sword, Axe and Mace types for Two Handed/Dual Wield*/One Hand & Shield Skill lines would almost mimic how Inferno Staves, Ice Staves and Shock staves effect the Destruction Staff Skill line.
*As for dual wielding different weapon types and so this doesn't get overly complicated. The weapon type in your main hand will be used to determine the Dual Wield Skill line type.

I hope I've been clear enough that people can understand the issues with some animations and the possible change to the way Melee weapons could work. Feel free to comment on anything I maybe have been unclear on, mistaken about or overlooked. Thanks for reading!

@ZOS_RichLambert

Darkeus · October 2015

imo melle skills and animations arent brutal enough! example: flurry is to slow , you look like a granny doin it, uppercut is so damn wierd, pls search nightmare/siegfried and cervantes (soul calibur 4 or 5) movelist and youll understand what i mean.

Harvall · December 2015

THIS !

first of all, the BASIC attack from right to left with the One hand and shield is wrong when using axes. Axes have only one side blade-edged. And if you look closely the attack from right to left is made with the non-edged part -_- it works for swords and maces but not axes.

Puncture is probably the most ridiculous. It only fits swords. I mean, come on.. thrust with a mace ? you will more liklely to push the guy than damage his armor or whatever. Axe does not fit almost in the same percent. Thrusting with the dull fromnt part of the axe... lol.

The flurry as said before is too slow.

My ideas ?

Just make the basic attack animation so the character just turns his wrist when changing the direction of the blow (right-left) so the blade of the axe fits it

The Puncture should be a blow from straight upwards to straight downwards. Fits, everything. Enormously strong blow with sword, Cracks armor with brute force with mace and head too if you are using axes

Flurry ? i kinda like the idea with diffrent animation depending on the weapon.
Daggers - thrusts with overgrip (normal)
Swords - could be thrusts with undergrip (keeping them higher) but the overgrip like with daggers works too
Axes/maces - attacks from the sides (you know, when right weapns blows the other hand goes backwards, then it blows and the first one backwards.

And for Mara's sake, speed it up !

Lenikus · December 2015

I do hope people don't even bring the topic of the actual stances the character takes, and everything wrong with posture, swings and all that...
Damm , animators.. get some HEMA instruction.

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2015

Realistically speaking the sword swings aren't really accurate either. If you're going to be realistic though the way you swing a sword also depends upon its weight and shape which again aren't realistic (a shamshir doesn't cut like a longsword which doesn't cut like a twohander). All of that being said I think the animations are generally 'good enough' for swords and can be nonsensical for maces/axes as you have described. I would love to see ransack look differently for mace/axe.

I've posted about this as well but while they're in the process of cleaning up the animations I really wish they would have the characters telegraph a little less, particularly with the head and eyes animation. The motion of the head and eyes are nonsensical based upon what a real soldier would do: You do not look down behind your ankles when you're swinging a sword in front of you. You do not fling your shield behind your back either. Sword and Shield combat involves moving around the shield to strike, not swinging the shield behind your back making it pointless. I don't like haymaker animations in any games, particularly when the "Hero" is supposedly a paragon of martial talent. Part of my distaste for these animations is the fact that I did Karate for 8 years, gracie jiu jitsu for a few years, and boxing for a couple of years. I've also had some experience with escrima/kali and I've toyed with fencing, aikido and kendo. I don't expect perfection in videogames or movies but some things done in either situation push the limits of credibility.

Kutsuu · December 2015

Even besides the animations, it would be neat if some of the abilities had different effects depending on weapon type (blunt/slash/pierce) like the Dstaves do.

Sentinel · December 2015

Yup. There are quite a few animations that should be cleared up and changed into an accurate, as well as loftier depiction of weapon-based combat. The basis of improvement should be this: Different weapons should provide different animations for light, heavy attacks and even skills. I have some examples below and some suggestions for how they might be improved.

First off: Two-Handers
Swords:
(Youtube is a good place for quick reference videos, I found this one and enjoyed the way he described how attacks might be carried out).
The animations are a bit funky. Sometimes they feel realistic, sometimes they do not. I suppose the light and heavy attacks are well off enough for a two handed sword, but these could be improved too. My suggestions is to provide a wide range of light attack animations possible using a two handed sword reference. Then, with that, make heavy attacks a continuation of a light attack's animation, starting with the initial thrust/swing, then continuing it in a more advanced & devastating way. Swords are fast, they do not need to have these slow wind-ups that are currently in place. Also the stationary stance might have a better animation, as shown in the video.
Sword Cleave: Using a reference to a defensive stance, an animation that provides a long arcing follow through would work especially well for this ability, the current animation is not terrible for swords however.
Sword Critical Charge: Charging at an enemy with your sword right over your head makes for an... interesting scene. I don't have any reference for changing something like this.
Sword Uppercut: This is rather slow for a sword user. One change I would make is a unique animation that begins with a quick uppercut that flows into an overhead slash. As a result, also changing the effect to a knock back & down stun in the ability for swords would fit quite well. I would like to see this as a series of maneuvers rather than a single stroke.
Sword Reverse Slash: I like the quick animation for a sword.
Rally is fine as it is.

Mauls:
Stance: The idle stance for mauls should have one hand close to the head of the maul, and the other further down, rather than holding the weapon like a greatsword.
Light and Heavy attacks: These should feel heavy and powerful for the Maul. The animations for these should be specific to how a maul is swung rather than any other weapon, but they might look and feel a lot slower than the other weapons even if the time is the same for each.
Maul Cleave: I think that a heavier swing should be in place, and a functionality that if it is being spammed, the weapon moves in opposite directions on each consecutive hit, still going left to right, but afterwards, going right to left, etc.
Maul Critical charge: Maybe, while holding it similarly to the idle stance, the follow through at the end is a side stepped swing.
Maul Uppercut: Hold the weapon with one hand near the head, and bring the maul down (maybe to the right), and quickly follow through with an animation that continues as a diagonal-upperswing. Still knocks back.
Maul Reverse slash: The animation and follow through is too fast and undermines the weight of the weapon. The animation as it is makes it appear almost as if is as light as a greatsword, which it is not.I would make the animation have more time spent on the build-up of the swing, and less on the swing itself. It might also be better as a interchangeable diagonal swing down. Think, almost, as it the maul is beating what is left of a tree stump into nothing more than crushed bark (but the animation shouldn't go too low).

Axes:
Stance: Similar to Mauls
Light and Heavy attacks: Also similar to the maul, but adjusted so that the axe has side cuts as a predominancy. Maybe the heavy attacks could be heavier, but followed through might like the sword heavy attacks (by starting out as a light attack animation, then progressing into a new swing).
Axe Cleave: Generally good as it is now really. The interchanging left to right should be applied though.
Axe Critical Charge: The character perhaps runs with the axe in a position similar to the maul, but the follow through is diagonally downward, as if slicing down across someones neck, shoulders, and clavicle.
Axe Uppercut: A much heavier built up sideswing, starting from lower down, the head of the axe still held near one hand.
Axe Reverse slash: Reverse slash animation, but adjusted to have the axe head closer to hands. Include the wind up slightly more than the follow through to make the animation a bit heavier.

.... And that's just for Two handed weapons. If they were given more unique animations, these weapons would definitely feel hard hitting, but requiring skillful techniques of the character.