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Let's talk damage modifiers and game balance (Snipe, Cfrags, Surprise Attack, oh my)

  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
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    Kutsuu wrote: »
    Agreed that this would have an effect on PVE dps and rotations. Surely there are ways to compensate for that.

    Name one.

    There is no separation of the two in this game one directly affects the other. The only viable solution ZOS had was the Battle Spirit.

    One shots happen. AOC didn't fail because of Game design. AOC stagnated because of Funcom,s Incompetence and insider trading.Crom and Fury servers are still up the Palace of Cetriss expansion is now online. My 1100 plus Guild Requiem Nex is still playing, Obsidian Dragon a 1400 plus guild is still playing and AOC is still a top moneymaker for Funcom, as is TSW and Anarchy Online. AOC is being slowly revamped as the company struggles to not go into bankruptcy. Currently the main creditor to Funcom extended the loan terms and even loaned them more money. You can get the facts just Google "Funcom investor relations"

    Get the facts straight.

    Assumptions about assumptions are invalid points.

    Edited by SeptimusDova on December 14, 2015 6:36AM
  • Alucardo
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    Alcast wrote: »
    With softcaps we had no such problems. Now it is Min/max or gtfo :(

    When people found out it was being removed

    vqhgs.jpg

    Bring back softcaps
  • potirondb16_ESO
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    *** I would even go as far as to say they should implement different PvP and PvE profiles as balancing skills for both PvP and PvE seems to be a big hurdle for the dev team. Skills can be buffed/nerfed in PvP and have no effect on PvE and this would allow players to set up skills, morphs, and equipment sets independent of each.


    I do agree with that at some point, being a PVE guy most of my mmo life, I recently discover the thrill of pvp in ESO and I love it despite the issue, but I do agree with Refuse2GrowUp, could the meta be adjust for pvp and for pve ?
  • MrDerrikk
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    Alucardo wrote: »

    Bring back softcaps

    #SoftcapSeason

    Edit: or #SeasonalSoftcaps
    or #CullCaps4Christmas
    Edited by MrDerrikk on December 14, 2015 9:04AM
    I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!

    DC - PC - EU - Australian
    VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB

    Oh look, Anook.
  • Artjuh90
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    strangest of softcap removal of damage but armor stil has stofcaps (physical and magic resistance)
  • MrDerrikk
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    Artjuh90 wrote: »
    strangest of softcap removal of damage but armor stil has stofcaps (physical and magic resistance)

    They only have Hardcaps now, so they just suddenly stop at...50%? I think it's that.
    I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!

    DC - PC - EU - Australian
    VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB

    Oh look, Anook.
  • Toc de Malsvi
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    "Snipe is still op"

    WTF? There is nothing OP about snipe, it has an insane flight time coupled with an interruptable 1 sec cast time. It requires you to not use dodge roll, reflect, interrupts, surroundings, or to just generally go AFK while playing in order for you to die from snipes. Do you know how hard it is to track 1 player with snipe when he is moving amongst even just 2-3 players, you will constantly end up swapping targets and sniping the wrong ones. I literally have never died to one player who is just sniping me.

    Too many players in this game want to stand in the middle of an open field without armor or health and then QQ about getting ganked. You're in a FRIGGIN WAR! You should not be standing alone in an open field unbuffed, and if you do YOU SHOULD DIE!
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • willymchilybily
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    I dont think people complain about these skills you mention because they are able to 1 shot but because they are strong in general and the people complaining rarely have used/played the class they complain against, but have died to it because its popular.

    There is only one skill in this game i think is OP and its so rarely mentioned i don't think anyone cares.
    silky_soft wrote: »
    If you are vamp or less then 20k HP with no heavy you deserve to insta die.
    having a glass cannon NB and a tanky DK I have to agree.
    on my low health Nb and i dont normally get 1 shot in PvP... literately not able to run certain PvE pledges health is that low (15k outside cyrodil). I have only been 1 shot 2 times & it was a focus aim from stealth where camo hunter proc'd but what do i expect as a vamp stam Nb with lowhealth, and no crit resistance.

    On my DK i have yet to see anything hit above 7-8k even ults. If you are dying quick you are doing it wrong. playstyle+build+you are not compatible.
    As such i am against the OP suggestion
    Edited by willymchilybily on December 14, 2015 12:29PM
    PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart Pact
    Dragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Night Blade [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Sorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless Conqueror
    Templar [Magicka] - 720 - Stormproof
    Dragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - Stormproof
    Night Blade [Stamina] - 720 - Stormproof
    Sorcerer [Stamina] - 720
  • dday3six
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    Kutsuu wrote: »
    Agreed that this would have an effect on PVE dps and rotations. Surely there are ways to compensate for that.

    Name one.

    There is no separation of the two in this game one directly affects the other. The only viable solution ZOS had was the Battle Spirit.

    Agreed.

    I'm getting a little sick of players making suggestion for PVP, while just not caring about the ripple effects they will have in PVE.

  • Tankqull
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    well for me its much more a problem of the disparity of offensive CP options vs defensive options, while(beside sorcs) you are perfect to go DPS wise with one star, defense is clustered over 5-6 different stars where allways 2 compensate one offensive star so to be on a equal footing defensive wise you need 5-6x as much CP to be spend than on your offense.
    wich is further increased by the fact all are tied into one constellation leading to the fact that you need tons of CP in total to gain the defense to compensate one offensive star.

    that is actually the problem.

    the entire CP system was obviously inteded with equaly spreaded CP allocation and not the minmaxing we are doing:
    a step into the right direction would be e.g. caping the constallations internally by having no single star of each can exceed 50% of the points spend in the 3 other stars.
    -> so lets say you are a stamina user wanting to max out mighty, you have to spend 200 points into precise strikes and piercing as thaumaturge probably doesn´t help you much (this would aswell require some overhaul of the representation of abilitys within a given star)
    MrDerrikk wrote: »
    Artjuh90 wrote: »
    strangest of softcap removal of damage but armor stil has stofcaps (physical and magic resistance)

    They only have Hardcaps now, so they just suddenly stop at...50%? I think it's that.
    ye-nope its a bit more complicated the dmg reduction is caped at 50% but you can compensate for armor/resi piercing by overcapping your values and piercing is quite excessive.
    Edited by Tankqull on December 14, 2015 1:46PM
    spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused

    Sallington wrote: »
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"


  • iamnotweakrwb17_ESO
    iamnotweakrwb17_ESO
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    Easier solution. Zenimax needs to stop introducing gear or mechanics that buff the *** out of weapon damage. It shouldn't be possible to stack 6k weapon damage and go around lol omg 1 - 2 shotting people.

    And here's another pro tip. Why the hell do all these massive damage attacks also CC the *** out of the target. You have frags, wrecking blow, stealthed concealed weapon and snipe all doing stupid CC. No hard hitting ability should be CCing anyone PERIOD! Hard CC should be on low damage or no damage attacks only.
    Edited by iamnotweakrwb17_ESO on December 14, 2015 3:21PM
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    The problem is not so much the damage that can be done. It's mostly a problem with the health nerf and it is not efficient to invest your resources into health, which makes glass cannon builds very appealing. Throw in multiple camo hunter procs from stealth and there you go.
    Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.
  • THEDKEXPERIENCE
    THEDKEXPERIENCE
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    There is a simple way to fix all these issues ... adjust your build. I went from a light armor magic Templar recently to a 7/7 heavy armor all stamina build. I used Willow's path to pump up my regens, and added both defensive stance and barrier. On Saturday I had my best PVP day since the radiant oppression nerf where 2 things stuck out.

    1) I was able to "tank" 3 plus opponents spamming projectiles often. At one point I held a bridge versus 8 people for a solid minute. I just absorbed a ton of damage, and self healed until my teammates showed up. I had no chance of this as recently as a week ago.

    2) I fought both a VR16 nightblade and a VR16 sorc to a 5 minute standstill where they ran away, did the universal sign of let's go our separate ways, and called it a draw.

    Yes, my DPS is lower than it used to be but things like Soul Assault and even RO still work when used properly, so really not a big deal. All in all my survivabilty is off the charts and I've been avoiding horse riding simulator 5000 way more than I used to.

    TLDR: Don't ask for nerfs. Adjust your build to something odd and make life hell for the standard PVP builds.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Easier solution. Zenimax needs to stop introducing gear or mechanics that buff the *** out of weapon damage. It shouldn't be possible to stack 6k weapon damage and go around lol omg 1 - 2 shotting people.

    And here's another pro tip. Why the hell do all these massive damage attacks also CC the *** out of the target. You have frags, wrecking blow, stealthed concealed weapon and snipe all doing stupid CC. No hard hitting ability should be CCing anyone PERIOD! Hard CC should be on low damage or no damage attacks only.

    No....just no....Snipe does not have a CC component it does not knock you down it does not knock you back it does not stun. Attacking from stealth stuns your target if you are behind them, you cannot perma CC someone with snipe the same way that you can juggle someone with WB. Players who stack weapon damage sacrifice a lot in CP's, Skills, armor options, this makes them more bursty especially from stealth but it really hurts their sustain. Asking you to not stand in the open unbuffed or to slot something as simple as Radiant Magelight or be near someone who has it or just be near people in general is a small price comparatively.

    Getting one shot occasionally because you are not watching your back or putting yourself in bad situations is not an issue and it reinforces a better understanding of PVP and war in general. I run a "one shot" build on my DK and I can tell you that I rarely if ever one shot good players, and when I do I often have to pop and invisibility pot immediately or die from his buddies. When I started pvping I got one shot constantly I learned how to counter it, you go to pvp to fight sometimes you die that's how it works.

    One shot mechanics help keep balance between lower players and higher players, yes lower characters will get killed more however the structure remains where you can plan and set up to kill significantly better geared/higher level characters. Introducing mechanics to stop these kills only serves to make the top tier even stronger. Imagine any first person shooter where you could not longer be killed by 1 sniper head shot, or one rocket the top players would become even more invincible than they were before, while the lower players will still die as often.

    I can tell you what is a lot more frustrating than getting one shot, when you go up against someone who is both eating you alive and you cannot touch their health pool that is infinitely more frustrating because you know there is nothing you can or could have done to kill them.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • SanTii.92
    SanTii.92
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    I don't think the problem is on the scaling of those abilities. Most if not all one shots are from stealth attacks + camo hunter agaisnt vamps OR Glass canon builds who think they shouldn't get one shot if you do not defend acordingly agaisnt certain attacks: Wb, Crystal Frags combos, etc. You can't expect not getting one-shotd if you can't even block or dodge a frag.

    There is room for counterplay, in my opinion some minor tweeks needs to be done about stealth dmge, and maybe camo procs / dawnbreaker are a bit too oppresive on vamps.
    Edited by SanTii.92 on December 15, 2015 12:52AM
    When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
    the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.

    Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.
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