Should ZOS Give Execute Ability to Dragonknights ?

danno8 · December 2015

Yes

Junkogen wrote: »

So many people just want all the classes to be cookie cutter.

Maybe we should just remove all the classes and have one build for all.

What people want are different ways of doing the same thing, but to be overall as effective as the next class in doing it.

For example Radiant Destruction was highly effective when it first came out (a bit over-tuned but very good). It was a high damage execute, but had the drawbacks of being channeled, leaving you open to attacks/cc/interrupts etc.. It was great at range, but a pretty bad idea in melee. In a nutshell it was different but just as effective at other executes in the overall picture.

Then the nerfs came and now it is just a shadow of it's formal self. First the nerf to execute range (2x), then the nerf to damage above execute range, then the nerf to 1/s tick from 1/.5s tick, further nerfing the proc chances on other passive skills. It still has all the drawbacks, but little to no advantages anymore over an instant execute.

My point is that when it came out it was a good example of different but comparable skills.

For DK's they have to make Molten do something more for it to be different but comparable. For example make it so that heavy attacks charge faster while it is active, or subsequent heavy attacks get an increasing bonus beyond the standard 300% bonus. Molten + HA has so many drawbacks but no advantages currently.

Kova · December 2015

Yes

DK deserves a class execute. Maybe something like endless fury, so it has a 50/50 chance of working. Can we also have a non-class magicka execute too? That would be nice.

But yeah, DKs should have an execute.

Malmai · December 2015

Yes

Stamina DK is fine, Magicka DK is the one that needs EXECUTE and BUFF !

Refuse2GrowUp · December 2015

Yes

While I agree that DKs should have a better execute, I do not agree the whip should be it. That seems akin to making Crystal Frags and execute. It is most DKs (mag ones at least) spam ability and our hardest hitting one. No reason for it to be an execute.

It would seems devs envision DKs as more of a tanky, survival class (even tho the myriad of recent nerfs completely nullify this); just as it would seem they envision mag Templars as more of a utility and heal class more so than a DPS class. So, I do not see them giving DKs and extremely hard hitting, effective execute.

I think them reworking Molten Weapons would be more than sufficient (although admittedly not ideal for most DKs wanting to do heavy DPS). The skill should last longer, the base skill should be an execute (vice just the Molten Armaments morph), and it should be reverted back to not requiring a fully charged heavy attack for the added damage. Molten Armamentsmorph could be the magica morph and also give a damage increase to the next attack conducted (thus increasing it's effectiveness as an execute ability)...similar to how the 2H passive gives extra damage to the next attack after a fully charged heavy. The Igneous Weapons Morph should scale to stamina/weapon damage.

Just my 2 cents, but I think this would be a middle ground compromise so that the devs could maintain their view of the DK role while still making their current class execute more viable and useful.

Joy_Division · December 2015

Praeficere wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

When someone is actually playing it doesn't work like that? You mean when a Nightblade cloaks while playing and wipes away the dot immediately? Yeah, that's fair. I've never liked that, and anyone would find it hard to convince me otherwise.
No one said Igneous shield was bad. Just pointing out it sucks as a mitigation ability is all. I'll always use it just because of how useful it can be.

And that's a NB (DoTs making fighting NBs very nice). If a NB keeps having to cloak, you're on the upper hand. If they stay cloaked for a long time, they aren't worth fighting. DoTs are crazy good in PvP and it's simple, if you say it's not worth using, you haven't explored your Magicka DK enough. Without using the two DoTs, a Magicka DK is subpar - it creates so much pressure and a nice bit of additional damage. Try it.

No they aren't.

Take a careful look at this video and the combat log and you will see why DoTs are terribly inefficient in Cyrodiil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4

Refuse2GrowUp · December 2015

Yes

Praeficere wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

When someone is actually playing it doesn't work like that? You mean when a Nightblade cloaks while playing and wipes away the dot immediately? Yeah, that's fair. I've never liked that, and anyone would find it hard to convince me otherwise.
No one said Igneous shield was bad. Just pointing out it sucks as a mitigation ability is all. I'll always use it just because of how useful it can be.

And that's a NB (DoTs making fighting NBs very nice). If a NB keeps having to cloak, you're on the upper hand. If they stay cloaked for a long time, they aren't worth fighting. DoTs are crazy good in PvP and it's simple, if you say it's not worth using, you haven't explored your Magicka DK enough. Without using the two DoTs, a Magicka DK is subpar - it creates so much pressure and a nice bit of additional damage. Try it.

DoTs are horrible in the current state of PvP, especially DK DoTs. Everyone is running purge, and cloak allowing the removal of four DoTs at a time pretty much nullifies any DoT attack and renders it useless.

Prior to the IC patch, DKs had just enough burst that the DoTs where an extremely effective finisher and could keep pressure on targets. That is certainly not the case now. Even without the ability to purge, DK burst and DoT being 30% less than what it was is enough to render the damage quite sub-par. And saying that causing a NB to cloak is somehow putting them on the defensive makes me question your knowledge of NB mechanics. Forcing them out of stealth is putting them on the defensive. Making them cloak, even stam NBs with a limited magica pool, is merely going to help them do the ninja NB type attacks that make NBs what they are. You force their cloak, they simply get a guaranteed crit when they hit you again, and you have little burst now-a-days, and a lot less survivability than you used to, to counter their burst. In a ttk battle lasting minutes, sure, forcing their cloak might put them at a disadvantage. But forcing them to cloak in a 10-15 second, or less, ttk battle will do little. Of course, this discussion is limited only to PvP and only relevant to DoTs and DK burst damage.

PBpsy · December 2015

Yes

Where the snip is the : "Yes ,I am a troll option."?

Catblade · December 2015

Nope DK meant to be the scrub class. Also lol at the guy saying use DOTS against NB dark cloak anyone?

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

Ruben wrote: »

DKs need an execute with a stamina morph.

If you run Two-Handed then you have a Stamina finisher: Reversal Slash.

RoamingRiverElk · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

Axorn wrote: »

Every Class has an execute ability. Sorcerer have mage's fury, nightblade have assassin's blade and templar have radiant destruction but there is no any execute ability for dragonknights. Its not fair especially for magicka dragonknights like me.

My suggestion is make the lava whip execute for under %25 health targets without reducing its damage. It would be fair.

Way to make a neutral poll...

No, I don't think DKs should have an execute. Have them be able to do constant, good pressure damage over time. And give them more survivability. Not all classes should be the same.

RoamingRiverElk · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

Alucardo wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

DKs have great sustained dps, resource management and damage mitigation.

OK, I can probably agree with resource management, but when DoTs can be purged in a second, the sustained DPS you mention is pretty much no longer valid. Damage mitigation? You mean hardened armour and Igneous shield?
Hardened armour provides the same benefits as, say, Boundless storm, but that also gives them major expedition. So in reality, it's just so much better.
Igneous shield as a shield is a joke. I use it for major mending for my rally burst heals and Vigor, but that's about it.
Really the best line of defence we have is scales.

I read that quote as, that's what DKs *should* have. ^^ They don't have good survivability and DK skills cost a lot too. Resource management was good when ultimates could be used more often. Not so now.

Matherios · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

Dk don't need executioner they need mobility!

Huxide · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

i am a troll ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2015

Let's try not to repeat history here.

Templars didn't have an execute at the beginning of the game. During the blazing shield days, they didn't need one. Then Templars got an execute. In exchange, they lost one of their best tanking abilities . But they lost more than that. So many Templar abilities were (and still are) bugged and useless before radiant was given to them.

But after radiant, it was impossible start a templar discussion thread without at least five thread hijackers coming in to say templars were fine and even OP because of "Jebus beam" and dont need any buffs or fixes.

Then radiant was nerfed and now only marginally useful and nearly ALL of the bugs and problems for templar remain.

Executes are very hard to balance. If mages fury worked like it should (based on the tooltip), it would be considered OP too.
I would hate for DKs to get an execute, (while something else gets replaced or nerfed) then the execute gets nerfed too after the crying begins. This happens all too frequently.

altemriel · December 2015

Axorn wrote: »

Every Class has an execute ability. Sorcerer have mage's fury, nightblade have assassin's blade and templar have radiant destruction but there is no any execute ability for dragonknights. Its not fair especially for magicka dragonknights like me.

My suggestion is make the lava whip execute for under %25 health targets without reducing its damage. It would be fair.

DK has Executioner skill, if that is what you mean

hammayolettuce · December 2015

Yes

DoTs used to be good in pvp, however with all of the damage reductions in pvp and healing as well the magicka dots are terrible. Good luck using the DK fail execute on any player who has more than 1 days of pvp experience. By the time you use the skill then charge a full heavy attack your opponent is at full health already.

Magicka DKs need lots of love given to them in the next update.

*

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2015

Not voting in a biased poll, but the answer is none of the above. Not every class needs every ability. Otherwise, what's the point of classes. That being said, we used to have an execute. They just made it impractical to use. Fix Molten Armaments and you solve the problem. Buff duration and have it apply to Weapon Attacks. The strength might need adjustment as to not make it too OP, but it needs changed.

Edziu · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

I am for no because I saw much films where dk has much more dps (single target boss on melee) without finisher than nb, templar or sorc with finishers (before overloadbuff)

MaxwellC · December 2015

Yes

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Defeats the purpose of the tank class. Plus you kind of need a full bars worth of life sustaining abilities. Reflective scales can work as am execute lol I've meteored myself to death countless times.

@DRXHarbinger sorry mate but I'd like a break from being the tank from time to time. You can't tank in PvP btw as NBs face roll while Sorcs hide behind shields n mines and Templars just heal Jab all day. Too bad Stam regen with blocking is gone as the heavy armor passives are complete garbage to begin with; at least I'm comparison to light/medium.

Edziu · December 2015

No (i am a troll)

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@DRXHarbinger sorry mate but I'd like a break from being the tank from time to time. You can't tank in PvP btw as NBs face roll while Sorcs hide behind shields n mines and Templars just heal Jab all day. Too bad Stam regen with blocking is gone as the heavy armor passives are complete garbage to begin with; at least I'm comparison to light/medium.

but for what you need finisher on pvp? you just need maybe stamina whip morph lol, sorc using finisher only for cryst. frag. proc and cheap cos, magica temp....because you cant dodge this s... and nb..ehh...sometime only magic nb using it because has range, and ok, finisher from 2h...you can start spamming it when your enemy has 50% health to fast finish him lol, better than other finishers on melee...oh wait, only nb stamina has class melee finisher so dk...if you look on his skills finisher for dk be only for melee range.

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Yes

Katinas wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

you mean DK already have an execute ? lol where ?

Sorc's mage's fury does insane damage under %20

Molten Armaments? Somehow people refuse to accept heavy attacking as a proper execute. I have seen Molten Armaments with a good build hitting for much, much, much more than an averagely built sorc, nightblade or templar execute.

That's my point cause I compared it to reverse slash the 2H execute and I did more damage using molten armaments and another bonus you can gain even more damage from the expert CP passive that increases light and heavy attacks damage. So more damage and resource regen from heavy attacks how is that bad?

Artjuh90 · December 2015

Yes

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Ruben wrote: »

DKs need an execute with a stamina morph.

If you run Two-Handed then you have a Stamina finisher: Reversal Slash.

reversal slash has same damage at execute range as WB has normal lolz

hammayolettuce · December 2015

Yes

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

you mean DK already have an execute ? lol where ?

Sorc's mage's fury does insane damage under %20

Molten Armaments? Somehow people refuse to accept heavy attacking as a proper execute. I have seen Molten Armaments with a good build hitting for much, much, much more than an averagely built sorc, nightblade or templar execute.

That's my point cause I compared it to reverse slash the 2H execute and I did more damage using molten armaments and another bonus you can gain even more damage from the expert CP passive that increases light and heavy attacks damage. So more damage and resource regen from heavy attacks how is that bad?

The 2h execute passively increases your 2h skills damages, so it still has to be slotted.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2015

Yes

The other classes have executes, so a DK should have one too.

So simple...

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Yes

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

Axorn wrote: »

you mean DK already have an execute ? lol where ?

Sorc's mage's fury does insane damage under %20

Molten Armaments? Somehow people refuse to accept heavy attacking as a proper execute. I have seen Molten Armaments with a good build hitting for much, much, much more than an averagely built sorc, nightblade or templar execute.

That's my point cause I compared it to reverse slash the 2H execute and I did more damage using molten armaments and another bonus you can gain even more damage from the expert CP passive that increases light and heavy attacks damage. So more damage and resource regen from heavy attacks how is that bad?

The 2h execute passively increases your 2h skills damages, so it still has to be slotted.

Right for dat WB spam. Like yes executioner gives a passive increases to damage when fighting low health enemies but reverse slash just seems better to me cause it deals half the damage it deals to 2 near by enemies. Like that is just hellavu useful for CC and fighting 1v2.

wrathofrraath · December 2015

Magicka DKs have an execute

MrDerrikk · December 2015

Yes

To those people saying that DK's can just use Weapon Executes, firstly no. Every class should have a viable ultimate, as it's not a class kind of mechanic but a game mechanic, as shown by the fact that all 3 other classes have one.
Secondly, what about Magicka DK's? There is no viable execute for these poor souls, not even in the weapon lines.

willymchilybily · December 2015

Yes

1). whip as execute is bad there is allreay so much going on with it. cant have 1 button to do everything
2). all weapons/stamina do have execute options. but it would be nice to have a dedicated class execute, not a morph that can execute that only one set up (magicka/stam) can use, but I would say priority is for a magicka execute. but no reason cant both have one.
3). stone fist does physical damage and is magicka cost doesnt synergise well with stam or magicka DK and so would make a weak execute and ranged executes dont fit with DK imo
4). whip stam morph is not the topic of discussion, but if they gave the 10% buff from molten whip to something like inferno, it would free up that version of the ability for a stam morph and not affect PvE. but it would suck hard, flame damage based stam whip would be terrible. why does every one have a hard on for something that would be genuinely terrible?

anyway yeah execute would be nice, They did try to give us one with molten weapons, and in principle its a nice skill. but realistically with it now only working on fully charged attacks its really not useful unless on specially set up builds

bertenburnyb16_ESO · December 2015

Yes

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Defeats the purpose of the tank class. Plus you kind of need a full bars worth of life sustaining abilities. Reflective scales can work as am execute lol I've meteored myself to death countless times.

u can play sorc or nb as tank to
DK isnt a 'tank' class, it has some nice tank options, but any class can do about anything in this game

Tankqull · December 2015

actually DKs have with molten armaments the hardest hitting(DPS wise) finisher existing if CP points are spend accordingly to support it - but nearly no one is doing so with only 501 CP points as it significantly hurts your overall DPS.