Temporary Small-Scale PvP Solution - Let's Agree to Make Haderus a Small Scale PvP Zone

Rylana · December 2015

Scamandros wrote: »

While I haven't been in haderus as much as usual last week it had appeared that DiG wasn't playing there as often as they used to. Not a part of the guild so not sure, maybe I just haven't seen them. But last time I talked to them a while back they seemed cool and wanting to respect the home keeps unofficial rule, however as I understand it there is quite a large collection of players not belonging to any major guild (PuGs) but are of the mentality that the map is not won until everything is gold and the enemy logs off.

I got on early today to play the opening hours the new campaign hoping it to be packed with action again, we had most of the map and there wasn't a whole lot of DC/EP pushing yet so I left and came back a few hours later. Things were looking better, both DC and EP had solid groups out and about doing stuff made for some fun fights.
For a good while there was no emperor on haderus and it was looking nicely balanced between all factions. People started logging off for the night and then DC made the push around the ring and took emp relatively easily. Funnily enough it wasnt long after they log off that GoS shows up to do the same, and currently still have the centre ring. I think the timing of both pushes were just coincidental so not complaining.

Was a rocky start but overall tuned out to be a fun day, I think AD still outnumbered for most of primetime but the other factions had the better coordinated groups. Looking forward to see what tomorrow brings

Yeah the GoS push wasnt pre-set or anything, Jam had decided to give up his emp attempt because he couldnt commit enough time. When zaz logged in after work (remember hes aussie) he saw jam was still somehow in the lead and decided to get him his first emperorship.

For my part of it, my motive was the same, but also because of this thread. it seems like when red controls haderus (lately) the map is more fair and even. Its when AD and co zergball it gets out of hand.

Didnt have a problem with a blue emp either, since they stayed to the ring, but ya know, guildie on his first time, had to pop that cherry. (when we recapped the ring after an emp push by AD this morning just now, we also left roe and ash intentionally, we took brindle to give the duelers a spawn point and because well, its BRINDLE)

But AD emps routinely ruin the campaign for days on end, e-peen i guess? So until AD agrees to the terms laid out by blue and red, GoS will attempt to "referee" by example, if that makes sense, as we are the largest organized guild on had currently.

Ring is full game, depose us if you can, but if AD starts the stuff where they push our gates OR blues gates, we will farm them for a whole night at bloodmayne/blackboot and i guarantee i wont feel guilty about it either. Thats kinda the veiled threat to try to get them to cooperate. I just want good fights, you know me

Rylana · December 2015

-sigh-

This is what I get for my trouble, but eh, ill share it. Blotted the name out per forum rules.

Psilent · December 2015

DC, going to need you to reign in the zergs. Looks like a few no names are high on the leaderboards and calling in massive amounts of players to cap the ring. We left Ash and your tri-keeps alone and the thanks we get is a massive zerg of DC.

Left the GoS group when it got to big and wasn't needed, but I won't be doing that if the thanks we get is a DC zerg train rammed down our throats.

AD was really good last night, lot fun fights.

Alucardo · December 2015

Rylana wrote: »

-sigh-

This is what I get for my trouble, but eh, ill share it. Blotted the name out per forum rules.

Hahaha that reply.. oh it seems you left his name uncensored in the "Tell to <name>" box. His name seems pretty appropriate.

Alucardo · December 2015

I'm really down for this idea. Of course not everyone uses the forums though, so awareness isn't going to spread to everyone.

Minno · December 2015

Psilent wrote: »

DC, going to need you to reign in the zergs. Looks like a few no names are high on the leaderboards and calling in massive amounts of players to cap the ring. We left Ash and your tri-keeps alone and the thanks we get is a massive zerg of DC.

Left the GoS group when it got to big and wasn't needed, but I won't be doing that if the thanks we get is a DC zerg train rammed down our throats.

AD was really good last night, lot fun fights.

At what time?I log on between 8pm and 12am est. and there's only just enough DC and zone chat not very active.

If its after 12, we may need a west coast/oceanic figurehead.

Also loved seeing that EP group come through the breach at ASH lol. Had to yell it out so we didn't get fully stomped lol.

Scamandros · December 2015

I didnt think there was an absurd amount of DC. Those forward camps being dropped tho lol

Jitterbug · December 2015

So... this is all PC/NA?

Minno · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

So... this is all PC/NA?

Yes. Should be lol

Jitterbug · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

So... this is all PC/NA?

Yes. Should be lol

KenaPKK · December 2015

You have my group's backing. I've attempted to do this before in Axe and Had and TF, but each attempt fizzled out after a while.

I believe in order to make it work, we'll need several of those 8ish man PUG leaders in each faction. If people would start doing more of that, the server could stick as a small group environment. However, we small groupers tend to resist playing with PUG players... It's a system that works against itself.

I and my guys have been leveling new characters lately, but I'll return to Had, which is my main campaign, to see how this effort goes.

Satiar · December 2015

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

OdinForge · December 2015

Satiar wrote: »

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

Zander98 · December 2015

Wow. I have to say reading through this thread...this is one of the most impressive things I've seen from ANY video game community. I would point out you shouldn't have to be doing this, but that would detract from this insanely heroic thing you are trying to do.
A list of what you are up against.....game mechanics, reward system, gamers ego's, trolling.... human nature honestly. And still working it. Enough to make a grown man weep.
Luckily not many grown men in this game.
I am seriously impressed. Only thing I wonder...."zerg" is kind of a nebulous term. One man's zerg is another man's group of friends. My favorite group size is 5-6, but I hardly consider 9 a "zerg". (Unless I am running solo in IC. Damn zergs!) To me small scale pvp *could be 24v24 if they were all spread out, not balled up, stacking shields, etc. But any experienced TS group literally can't do that because it goes against logic itself.
Also, at any time an unwitting group could bounce over from another server, or a pve guild could run in to blow off steam after a trial, causing innocent gamers unknowingly gum up the works in short time.
I think Ry is onto something though. Police action is only effective if there are punishments in place for breaking that which is being policed. If each faction had a strong guild willing to spend time for the good of small scale pvp, and every time one side wasn't playing by the rules would rush in and take all the guilty factions home keeps and scrolls, it COULD potentially incentivize each side to play by the rules. Something like that would be insanely hard to pull off though, since guilds have their own motives and goals they want to achieve, and players have only so much time they can spend working for free in a video game.
Regardless, anyone involved in this, mad respect.

mike.eso · December 2015

Zander98 wrote: »

Wow. I have to say reading through this thread...this is one of the most impressive things I've seen from ANY video game community. I would point out you shouldn't have to be doing this, but that would detract from this insanely heroic thing you are trying to do.
A list of what you are up against.....game mechanics, reward system, gamers ego's, trolling.... human nature honestly. And still working it. Enough to make a grown man weep.
Luckily not many grown men in this game.
I am seriously impressed. Only thing I wonder...."zerg" is kind of a nebulous term. One man's zerg is another man's group of friends. My favorite group size is 5-6, but I hardly consider 9 a "zerg". (Unless I am running solo in IC. Damn zergs!) To me small scale pvp *could be 24v24 if they were all spread out, not balled up, stacking shields, etc. But any experienced TS group literally can't do that because it goes against logic itself.
Also, at any time an unwitting group could bounce over from another server, or a pve guild could run in to blow off steam after a trial, causing innocent gamers unknowingly gum up the works in short time.
I think Ry is onto something though. Police action is only effective if there are punishments in place for breaking that which is being policed. If each faction had a strong guild willing to spend time for the good of small scale pvp, and every time one side wasn't playing by the rules would rush in and take all the guilty factions home keeps and scrolls, it COULD potentially incentivize each side to play by the rules. Something like that would be insanely hard to pull off though, since guilds have their own motives and goals they want to achieve, and players have only so much time they can spend working for free in a video game.
Regardless, anyone involved in this, mad respect.

Zane!!! Will you come join us tonight???

Mystikkal · December 2015

KenaPKK wrote: »

You have my group's backing. I've attempted to do this before in Axe and Had and TF, but each attempt fizzled out after a while.

I believe in order to make it work, we'll need several of those 8ish man PUG leaders in each faction. If people would start doing more of that, the server could stick as a small group environment. However, we small groupers tend to resist playing with PUG players... It's a system that works against itself.

I and my guys have been leveling new characters lately, but I'll return to Had, which is my main campaign, to see how this effort goes.

I'll help with PUG groups. Look, we run with Tamerlin, so it's basically like running with a PUG. Especially when he's on his Templar. So no loss here lol jk!!

Minno · December 2015

Mystikkal wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

You have my group's backing. I've attempted to do this before in Axe and Had and TF, but each attempt fizzled out after a while.

I believe in order to make it work, we'll need several of those 8ish man PUG leaders in each faction. If people would start doing more of that, the server could stick as a small group environment. However, we small groupers tend to resist playing with PUG players... It's a system that works against itself.

I and my guys have been leveling new characters lately, but I'll return to Had, which is my main campaign, to see how this effort goes.

I'll help with PUG groups. Look, we run with Tamerlin, so it's basically like running with a PUG. Especially when he's on his Templar. So no loss here lol jk!!

Mystikkal · December 2015

Minno wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

You have my group's backing. I've attempted to do this before in Axe and Had and TF, but each attempt fizzled out after a while.

I believe in order to make it work, we'll need several of those 8ish man PUG leaders in each faction. If people would start doing more of that, the server could stick as a small group environment. However, we small groupers tend to resist playing with PUG players... It's a system that works against itself.

I and my guys have been leveling new characters lately, but I'll return to Had, which is my main campaign, to see how this effort goes.

I'll help with PUG groups. Look, we run with Tamerlin, so it's basically like running with a PUG. Especially when he's on his Templar. So no loss here lol jk!!

That looks like Tamerlin!!!!

Erynyes · December 2015

AD trying to ruin the campain again atm, pvdoor the entire map and scrolls, gg killing a fun campain

Rylana · December 2015

Erynyes wrote: »

AD trying to ruin the campain again atm, pvdoor the entire map and scrolls, gg killing a fun campain

Go figure, its all they ever fricken do.

Its kind of blue's fault though, if they hadnt brought in that massive double raid and deposed the GoS emp last night, yellow wouldnt have emp now. Learn this lesson blue, stop just pushing red all the time if youre gonna guest over, OR DEFEND YOUR DAMN EMP WHEN YOU CROWN IT.

nine9six · December 2015

I'm down like 4 flat tires. Right now this is a joke. Help me help you. Small Scale FTW.

Rylana · December 2015

So be it AD. Next time you see a GoS raid led by me, youre going to be trapped at Mnem/Altadoon for a few days. I will make you quit the campaign out of frustration by the time I am done farming you for hours on end at your spawn.

Im literally sick of this, dont even bother crying to us in tells about getting zerged after the show you just put on.

As always, AD has to be the idiot of the family.

Galalin · December 2015

Rylana wrote: »

So be it AD. Next time you see a GoS raid led by me, youre going to be trapped at Mnem/Altadoon for a few days. I will make you quit the campaign out of frustration by the time I am done farming you for hours on end at your spawn.

Im literally sick of this, dont even bother crying to us in tells about getting zerged after the show you just put on.

As always, AD has to be the idiot of the family.

+1

DK SCRUB OUT

#swisscheesebloodmayneandblackboot

Psilent · December 2015

The moment you see Kro's, you know AD will be bringing 50+ to PvDoor the map.

Good luck making this small scale, was all for it, but it seems like AD/DC just want to zerg it down and ruin the fun.

_Chaos · December 2015

Satiar wrote: »

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

On the other hand, we could be the protectors of Small Scale Haderus and demoralize DiG so bad whenever they zerg the server that they quiver at the thought of coming back?

Also, I'd really really like to see a CKA vs Legion XIII skirmish.

@KenaPKK @OdinForge

OdinForge · December 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

On the other hand, we could be the protectors of Small Scale Haderus and demoralize DiG so bad whenever they zerg the server that they quiver at the thought of coming back?

Also, I'd really really like to see a CKA vs Legion XIII skirmish.

@KenaPKK @OdinForge

As I mentioned earlier CKA is always willing and we're just a friendly whisper away. We eagerly wait for a version of this game where small-scale PvP is truly viable again. At the moment I just don't see it being possible, been running larger groups (10-15, still usually outnumbered by AD) to get things done.

However.

Last night on Haderus was kind of an eye opener, I don't think any amount of player policing can fix this issue. There was one organized EP guild on Haderus around the start of prime-time, and a pug here and there around the map. Yet we faced AD in numbers greater than 35 plus their emperor, at one point tag teamed by DC at Chal. Anyone who knows me understands how much effort I put into trying to avoid pug groups, sometimes there is only so much that can be done though. Last night it simply didn't even matter. EP got zerged back to our home gate at Kingscrest and it was around 12AM so we disbanded for the night. My guild is never active past 12AM EST, so AD or DC is free to do whatever they want even past this time and I have to live with it. And it wasn't even the usual group of AD that zergs the server, so there is that.

If I showed up every night with only 8 people in my group, we would just get zerg rushed to our gates.

Rune_Relic · December 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

On the other hand, we could be the protectors of Small Scale Haderus and demoralize DiG so bad whenever they zerg the server that they quiver at the thought of coming back?

Also, I'd really really like to see a CKA vs Legion XIII skirmish.

@KenaPKK @OdinForge

As I mentioned earlier CKA is always willing and we're just a friendly whisper away. We eagerly wait for a version of this game where small-scale PvP is truly viable again. At the moment I just don't see it being possible, been running larger groups (10-15, still usually outnumbered by AD) to get things done.

However.

Last night on Haderus was kind of an eye opener, I don't think any amount of player policing can fix this issue. There was one organized EP guild on Haderus around the start of prime-time, and a pug here and there around the map. Yet we faced AD in numbers greater than 35 plus their emperor, at one point tag teamed by DC at Chal. Anyone who knows me understands how much effort I put into trying to avoid pug groups, sometimes there is only so much that can be done though. Last night it simply didn't even matter. EP got zerged back to our home gate at Kingscrest and it was around 12AM so we disbanded for the night. My guild is never active past 12AM EST, so AD or DC is free to do whatever they want even past this time and I have to live with it. And it wasn't even the usual group of AD that zergs the server, so there is that.

If I showed up every night with only 8 people in my group, we would just get zerg rushed to our gates.

Would it be better to spam in every factions zone chat.
"Haderus is a voluntary max 8 player group size. Please help to keep haderus fun for all. Have fun everyone"
There are many players that don't visit this forum.
There are many players not affiliated with any guilds.
At least then you can separate the oblivious players from the others.

Minno · December 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm fine with keeping VE away from Had for a month or so, see how the experiment goes.

Just stop telling me there's a GoS emp you know I want to come mess with that

On the other hand, we could be the protectors of Small Scale Haderus and demoralize DiG so bad whenever they zerg the server that they quiver at the thought of coming back?

Also, I'd really really like to see a CKA vs Legion XIII skirmish.

@KenaPKK @OdinForge

As I mentioned earlier CKA is always willing and we're just a friendly whisper away. We eagerly wait for a version of this game where small-scale PvP is truly viable again. At the moment I just don't see it being possible, been running larger groups (10-15, still usually outnumbered by AD) to get things done.

However.

Last night on Haderus was kind of an eye opener, I don't think any amount of player policing can fix this issue. There was one organized EP guild on Haderus around the start of prime-time, and a pug here and there around the map. Yet we faced AD in numbers greater than 35 plus their emperor, at one point tag teamed by DC at Chal. Anyone who knows me understands how much effort I put into trying to avoid pug groups, sometimes there is only so much that can be done though. Last night it simply didn't even matter. EP got zerged back to our home gate at Kingscrest and it was around 12AM so we disbanded for the night. My guild is never active past 12AM EST, so AD or DC is free to do whatever they want even past this time and I have to live with it. And it wasn't even the usual group of AD that zergs the server, so there is that.

If I showed up every night with only 8 people in my group, we would just get zerg rushed to our gates.

Ok I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.

Seems red + blue need to organize against yellow targets. (With 40 plus emp running around, its only way to return balance.)

I like the idea of each faction spamming "volentary 8 man groups only" into zone chat.

And as much as we want to push them back to the gates, we have to resist that urge. Gotta show how we want the server to run through action. Remember scrolls mean Jack for points, only buffs so you can ignore scrolls for a long time.

OdinForge · December 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Would it be better to spam in every factions zone chat.
"Haderus is a voluntary max 8 player group size. Please help to keep haderus fun for all. Have fun everyone"
There are many players that don't visit this forum.
There are many players not affiliated with any guilds.
At least then you can separate the oblivious players from the others.

Anything is worth a shot, I cannot see AD zone chat on Haderus. But in my experience on the EP side of things, it's easier said than done. The ones who really need to break down numbers are AD, and no one we talk too from AD seems interested.

Minno wrote: »

Ok I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this.

Seems red + blue need to organize against yellow targets. (With 40 plus emp running around, its only way to return balance.)

I like the idea of each faction spamming "volentary 8 man groups only" into zone chat.

And as much as we want to push them back to the gates, we have to resist that urge. Gotta show how we want the server to run through action. Remember scrolls mean Jack for points, only buffs so you can ignore scrolls for a long time.

Seems red + blue need to organize against yellow targets

Ironically DC was working with yellow last night at Chal, they had a comparable size group to us (or close). Twice they took us off siege, we wiped them once and maybe a second time not sure. But it was enough for AD to regather numbers and eventually push us off the keep. Then DC was nowhere to be seen while AD almost tripled their numbers and pushed east, there is no help from DC let's be realistic.

And as much as we want to push them back to the gates, we have to resist that urge. Gotta show how we want the server to run through action. Remember scrolls mean Jack for points, only buffs so you can ignore scrolls for a long time.

None of this actually matters to AD, they will never stop camping our gates and taking our scrolls.

Takllin · December 2015

Wasn't there only one bar of DC last night? Maybe two? I don't remember seeing anything more than that.

It's a great idea in theory, but like you've seen, it's terrible in practice.