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When will mages be using staffs like they were meant to be instead DW?
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Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?
Yes, the devs created the Meta by making something clearly stronger.
I could continue arguing, but having thought about it I think I realize I was just in the wrong actually. I'll bow down. You guys are right, it made no sense to write what I did.
Noooo, it's alright
Please have your opinion.
Yeah, well I thought I did, but reading you guys' comments and having thought about I have changed my opinion, straight up.2 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?
You can keep talking about meta. The only thing that matters to me here is that a magicka builds gets higher damage equipping a weapon, not due to any weapon skills, but simply because of poorly thought-out base damage and passives.
Sure, but isn't this starting to lean on the good old "working as intended" seeing as nothing has been done, or said, to change it? Maybe we need to come to terms with the fact that dw spell casting is a thing.
Now, buffing various aspects of destruction staff is a much more interesting discussion form my POV.1 -
Khaos_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agreed the, whole melee weapons being better for casters than staves is another bad design implementation from ZoS. There are many ways that staves can be more appealing. People using melee instead of staves says a few things...
1. The skill lines for staves aren't worth keeping over melee weapon use. The destroy line of spells is pretty terrible.
2. There is no benefit to staves white damage over using melee weapons for spell power
Be careful what you ask for though. I could see them simply change the spell power calculation on melee weapons to provide less spell damage than staves rather than making staves better.3 -
Spearshard✭✭✭✭Didn't the developers nerf that a few weeks back? I could be wrong but I just finished researching nirn on swords and got my magblade to 50 in dual wield so I equipped them instead of the gold destro staff I had been using. His spell dmg went up all of about 8 points. I believe they changed it so the only thing you get from dual wielding swords is the passive 6% (not sure of the exact number) dmg boost.
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BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭Lets not forget you have a ranged weapon to weave with using a staff which compensates some.
Swinging those swords at someone 20m way is not going to add to your overall damage the same way staff attacks would.
I do agree that staff weapon damage needs to be more, but for staff to give you the same base spell damage as DW and provide a ranged attack is probably expecting too much.
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Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should simply just make the passives work on their skill line skills only.
This is just a repeat of what we had when Restoration Staves would give you bonus damage and everyone used them to gain more damage for their class skills.
Zenimax would love to do this -.- Nerf something to make something else appealing. That's what they always did.
And I say NO to this. Just leave it as it is and finally give destruction staff good passive instead of this non-sense.
The problem is a good passive doesn't work unless it also brings holding a staff up to the same level of damage is two swords. Otherwise people will continue to hold two swords because they give better damage to class/guild/alliance war skill lines.
If you want a balanced game the all of the weapons need to play the same base damages when it comes to working with other skill lines (exception of sword and shield as the trade off is more defence).
People are not holding two swords with every build because they're a dual-weild build, they're holding them because they give more base damage than any other weapon in the game.
I am all for play the way you want and unusual builds, but weapon choice should be based on the skills you want to use weapon wise not what gives you the most raw damage for unrelated abilities.
@Wrobel@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."5 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Spearshard wrote: »Didn't the developers nerf that a few weeks back? I could be wrong but I just finished researching nirn on swords and got my magblade to 50 in dual wield so I equipped them instead of the gold destro staff I had been using. His spell dmg went up all of about 8 points. I believe they changed it so the only thing you get from dual wielding swords is the passive 6% (not sure of the exact number) dmg boost.
The base damage of 2 swords or one 2h-sword is also higher than staves, which adds to the passives. In my case, as I said, I get +15% spell damage with dual wielding.0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?
You can keep talking about meta. The only thing that matters to me here is that a magicka builds gets higher damage equipping a weapon, not due to any weapon skills, but simply because of poorly thought-out base damage and passives.
Sure, but isn't this starting to lean on the good old "working as intended" seeing as nothing has been done, or said, to change it? Maybe we need to come to terms with the fact that dw spell casting is a thing.
Now, buffing various aspects of destruction staff is a much more interesting discussion form my POV.
Agreed, I never asked for other stuff to get nerfed. I'd much rather see staves get a buff as well.0 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭i hypothesize they can't actually fix this. I think its buried in code so deep the man holding the dead canary in the cage has bailed, and even Alice would decided to take a sabbatical rather than push deeper.
But i do predict a ZOS band-aid fix "soon". Destruction starve passive to boost spell damage, resto staff to boost magicka regen, and likely some magicka based none lore breaking 1H weapon eg. spectral sword. (heavy attacks restore magicka).
PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7200 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Make two hand weapons count as two for sets or allow a small totem or orb to go in off hand with staff like in diablo 3Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.3 -
kupacmac✭✭✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?Edited by kupacmac on December 8, 2015 1:11PM1 -
Khaos_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭willymchilybily wrote: »i hypothesize they can't actually fix this. I think its buried in code so deep the man holding the dead canary in the cage has bailed, and even Alice would decided to take a sabbatical rather than push deeper.
But i do predict a ZOS band-aid fix "soon". Destruction starve passive to boost spell damage, resto staff to boost magicka regen, and likely some magicka based none lore breaking 1H weapon eg. spectral sword. (heavy attacks restore magicka).
Sure than can fix this. Buff Staves to provide equal or higher spell damage the DW and TH.
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
I would also like to know this... because most staff wielders use Force Pulse to proc Crystal Frag... so are they using Mage's Wrath instead? Also, what are they using for an AoE if not a morph of Impulse?CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
I use Staff/DW Sorc. The DW is for extra Overload damage and Execute damage. The rest of my rotation is Boundlesa Storm > Liquid Lightning > Curse > Force Pulse x3 > Curse > Force Pulse x3 > Curse > Liquid Lightning and then whenever Crystal Fragmenta procs, use it inbetween with Medium Weaves.Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Khaos_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
I would also like to know this... because most staff wielders use Force Pulse to proc Crystal Frag... so are they using Mage's Wrath instead? Also, what are they using for an AoE if not a morph of Impulse?
First, not all magicka users are sorcs. I use the dual wield setup on my magicka Templar and it generates far more DPS. My AoE with my Templar is puncturing sweep. In groups I generate Ultimate with resto staff skills or healing with BoL.
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Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
I would also like to know this... because most staff wielders use Force Pulse to proc Crystal Frag... so are they using Mage's Wrath instead? Also, what are they using for an AoE if not a morph of Impulse?
I am using a templar so I dont need procs, and for aoe I use spear shards, much better. Also the morph for the second dawn's wrath skill ( cant remember its name) makes it pretty simillar to force pulse
I have 1 bar with my healing and protection with resto staff also for magika refill and the other a DW with all my damage skills.
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khaos_Bane wrote: »First, not all magicka users are sorcs. I use the dual wield setup on my magicka Templar and it generates far more DPS. My AoE with my Templar is puncturing sweep. In groups I generate Ultimate with resto staff skills or healing with BoL.
Ah... that's true... I forgot some other classes also could use staff... including NB's.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~0 -
Khaos_Bane✭✭✭✭✭
✭Khaos_Bane wrote: »For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
I would also like to know this... because most staff wielders use Force Pulse to proc Crystal Frag... so are they using Mage's Wrath instead? Also, what are they using for an AoE if not a morph of Impulse?
First, not all magicka users are sorcs. I use the dual wield setup on my magicka Templar and it generates far more DPS. My AoE with my Templar is puncturing sweep/shards. In groups I generate Ultimate with resto staff skills or healing with BoL.
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NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wouldn't it cause everyone to then use staves over all other weapons. You're asking for double bonus with a ranged weapon
Kinda OP IMO if they do this-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P
This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't
This isnt lord of the rings. The rule that sorceror bears staff doesnt apply.
Glamdring anyone?This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!2 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khaos_Bane wrote: »
Not enough. If counting 2H weapons as 2 set items were the only change, 2H swords would still give greater spell damage than staves. Even 2 swords would, unless the additional set item specifically gives you a spell damage bonus.0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll start using a stave again, when 2H weapons and Staves count as 2 pieces of a bonus set and staves have more or equal bonus than using 2 swords.Far too many characters to list any more.0 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd think a better solution would be to disable a buff on off-hand items (shield/weapon)? Or keep the buff on a shield, but disable it for an off-hand weapon?Edited by AngryNord on December 8, 2015 3:07PM0 -
Diozaels✭✭They don't need to buff staves. Just normalize dw and 2h to give the same damage output.0 -
Lightninvash✭✭✭✭✭well you could just use a destroy staff and not use the dw. doing so or not is by choice not requirement. if you want to run destroy and resto then do it not follow the trends be different and proud of it 2 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭Resto Staff is for healing I'm okay with it doing less spell damage than DW or 2H
Destro Staff has poor passives, I'd modify the passives to grant a 10% Spell Crit for wielding a destroy rather than DW but that's it. The difference between Destro v. DW/2H is really quite close with Destro you get the following;
1. Ultimate generation
2. Better Sustain
3. Many useful abilities and set bonuses proc off of weapon attacks. For example Spectral Bow hits really hard and is resource free damage you can't do that while DW/2H.
My point is that its okay that spellpower is higher for DW/2H because Destro offers more utility the only thing I'd change is better passives perhaps a bonus to all spell crit.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I feel there needs to be more than 1 type of dmg magic weapon though, how about a wand and shield?
Or a summoned magic sword or such. Or even have orbs or elements act as a weapon e.g. light/ice/fire which shoots bolts of that type of element or such?
Just using the same weapon on 90% of magic charas is boring.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Resipsa131 wrote: »Resto Staff is for healing I'm okay with it doing less spell damage than DW or 2H
Destro Staff has poor passives, I'd modify the passives to grant a 10% Spell Crit for wielding a destroy rather than DW but that's it. The difference between Destro v. DW/2H is really quite close with Destro you get the following;
1. Ultimate generation
2. Better Sustain
3. Many useful abilities and set bonuses proc off of weapon attacks. For example Spectral Bow hits really hard and is resource free damage you can't do that while DW/2H.
My point is that its okay that spellpower is higher for DW/2H because Destro offers more utility the only thing I'd change is better passives perhaps a bonus to all spell crit.
Lol. Just lol.
You know that you can have 2 weapons equipped, don't you? Most magicka builds that go with dual wield or 2-handed already DO use a destro as their main weapon. That's where you do your weaving, ultimate generation, etc. But as it is, it's just silly to slot a destro as your off-weapon.
You don't need to weave on both bars, so you want to maximise damage for class/guild skills, executes (destro staff doesn't have one) and ultimates. And the way you get that is with dual wield or 2-handed. There is no other way around it. Having 2 staves as a DD is just silly.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For those of you using DW, what does your rotation look like? What is your DPS compared to Staff (with weaving)? How are you generating Ultimate?
jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab.
You gain can ultimate by healing (which jabs does) or blocking aside from light weaving (which is 100% feasible with jabs).
Also, people really need to stop and consider the whole DPS comparison, which is someone the justification for this absurd mechanic, makes zero consideration for healers. Elder Scroll Online is the only fantasy game ever where a blacksmith's steel weapons are superior healing instruments than magical weapons made for the specific purpose of restoration.
Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3
