When will mages be using staffs like they were meant to be instead DW?

Bigevilpeter · December 2015

Currently as a mage or any class for that matter needs to have DW in one of the sets, for no other reason than just damage buffing and crit, even though you never really use it.

I have a healer templar and I wanted one set to be destruction staff and the other resto staff, but I have to give up one for DW, of course as usless as destro staff skills are I chose to keep the resto staff.

I really hate being a mage running with two swords that I will never use.

Either the excessive boost from DW should be reduced or the staff boost should be higher.

Oh and plz make destro staff skills better.

Jura23 · December 2015

Personally I dont think this issue is very high on ZOS priority list. I could be wrong of course.

daemonios · December 2015

Agreed on all counts. Staves should always give higher spell damage than dual wield/2H.

Dracane · December 2015

As long as Eric Wrobel is in charge, we won't.

Jitterbug · December 2015

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

Bigevilpeter · December 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Personally I dont think this issue is very high on ZOS priority list. I could be wrong of course.

I don't think its that hard to do, just make staffs increase spell damage and crit while DW increase weapon damge and crit.

Destrostaff would raise a bit higher than Resto and DW raise a bit higher than 2h and 2h a bit higher than Sword and shield.

It would take just 1 min of coding from ZOS.

Dracane · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

Jitterbug · December 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

No, I can't

But I can't explain how you can even use magic either. And why, by some weird design, you are born with the ability to cast Crystal Fragments, but you can't cast a Flame Whip.
Actually, people have been whining about not being able to play their "battlemage" they loved so much in Oblivion, and now they sort of can. As I've said many times before, we have to be careful what we ask for

Jura23 · December 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

This isnt lord of the rings. The rule that sorceror bears staff doesnt apply.

daemonios · December 2015

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

It would take just 1 min of coding from ZOS.

Careful what you wish for. While I do want to see staves buffed, fiddling with these numbers can have far-reaching consequences. I'd rather wait and have it done right than get a rushed fix that breaks something else.

Dracane · December 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

This isnt lord of the rings. The rule that sorceror bears staff doesnt apply.

Leave me alone !!!

Stop destroying my life, okay ?
Okay nevermind, you already destroyed it. /Suicide

Bigevilpeter · December 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

This isnt lord of the rings. The rule that sorceror bears staff doesnt apply.

That not the rule of lord of the rings, its in ever single fantasy world game or movie ever, even eso btw since mages don't really use their DW to attack but use thier staffs.

Also staff skills use magika mages resource while weapons use stamina. So even in ESO mages are meant to use staffs, but this weird mechanics just ruins it.

Bigevilpeter · December 2015

daemonios wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

It would take just 1 min of coding from ZOS.

Careful what you wish for. While I do want to see staves buffed, fiddling with these numbers can have far-reaching consequences. I'd rather wait and have it done right than get a rushed fix that breaks something else.

Lol like the game is balanced now anyways and this will actually ruin the balance

Jitterbug · December 2015

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

This horse can be reasoned at least. It was cursed by Mehrunes Dagon.
Can you explain why holding 2 steel daggers makes my magic stronger than wielding a magical staff ? No, you can't

This isnt lord of the rings. The rule that sorceror bears staff doesnt apply.

That not the rule of lord of the rings, its in ever single fantasy world game or movie ever, even eso btw since mages don't really use their DW to attack but use thier staffs.

Also staff skills use magika mages resource while weapons use stamina. So even in ESO mages are meant to use staffs, but this weird mechanics just ruins it.

Every fantasy setting except the Elder Scrolls

In neither Oblivion nor Skyrim did you need a specific weapon to cast a spell.

Dracane · December 2015

It's just a poor mechanic, that 2 weapons offer so much more spell damage than a 2 handed staff.
So dual wield not only offers an additional set piece, as if this wasn't unfair enough, it also offers more base damage.

The least thing they could do, is offering some kind of glove for 2handed weapons. So that we can at least have this additonal set piece to make it at least somewhat fair.

BalticBlues · December 2015

It is also weird that DW brings more spell damange than 2H or 1H&SH.
Why is that? Make NB with DW even more OP?.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

make staffs increase spell damage and crit
while DW increase weapon damge and crit.

Indeed, this would be the plausible and balanced approach.

Turelus · December 2015

They should simply just make the passives work on their skill line skills only.

This is just a repeat of what we had when Restoration Staves would give you bonus damage and everyone used them to gain more damage for their class skills.

Jitterbug · December 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

It is also weird that DW brings more spell damange than 2H or 1H&SH.
Why is that? Make NB with DW even more OP?.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

make staffs increase spell damage and crit
while DW increase weapon damge and crit.

Indeed, this would be the plausible and balanced approach.

Would have to be by a lot though, seeing as you will also be missing out on the extra set piece bonus from having two weapons.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

You know you don't have to use Dual Wielding right? The metagame always goes for the highest extremes so much that they feel it is necessary, but it really isn't. If you want to use a Staff, use a Staff. I do on my Sorcerer, and it works just fine!

Dracane · December 2015

Turelus wrote: »

They should simply just make the passives work on their skill line skills only.

This is just a repeat of what we had when Restoration Staves would give you bonus damage and everyone used them to gain more damage for their class skills.

Zenimax would love to do this -.- Nerf something to make something else appealing. That's what they always did.
And I say NO to this. Just leave it as it is and finally give destruction staff good passive instead of this non-sense.

WillhelmBlack · December 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know you don't have to use Dual Wielding right? The metagame always goes for the highest extremes so much that they feel it is necessary, but it really isn't. If you want to use a Staff, use a Staff. I do on my Sorcerer, and it works just fine!

Pretty much, for DPS in dungeons DW is better. For kiting around players in Cyrodiil, a staff will be better for landing more damage and superior sustain.

Jitterbug · December 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know you don't have to use Dual Wielding right? The metagame always goes for the highest extremes so much that they feel it is necessary, but it really isn't. If you want to use a Staff, use a Staff. I do on my Sorcerer, and it works just fine!

It's not often Joe and I see things eye to eye, but here I have to agree whole heartedly. The meta is only strong if we let it be strong.

Islyn · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

I agree it's weird, but I'm shrugging it off. It's not as weird as a black, burning horse with pretty leather saddle bags anyway :-P

you can turn those off.

Dymence · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know you don't have to use Dual Wielding right? The metagame always goes for the highest extremes so much that they feel it is necessary, but it really isn't. If you want to use a Staff, use a Staff. I do on my Sorcerer, and it works just fine!

It's not often Joe and I see things eye to eye, but here I have to agree whole heartedly. The meta is only strong if we let it be strong.

This is absolutely nonsense to be honest and it's nothing more than trying to deny the reality you don't like.

daemonios · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You know you don't have to use Dual Wielding right? The metagame always goes for the highest extremes so much that they feel it is necessary, but it really isn't. If you want to use a Staff, use a Staff. I do on my Sorcerer, and it works just fine!

It's not often Joe and I see things eye to eye, but here I have to agree whole heartedly. The meta is only strong if we let it be strong.

I disagree entirely. On my Sorc, dual wielding nets me a full 15% more spell damage than my staff. I can get even more if I go with a 2-handed sword, but I'd have to switch one of my Molag Kena pieces for Torug.

This isn't small. 15% or more is a huge difference. By your reasoning, we might as well not care about anything in the way of damage, because "the meta is only strong if we make it strong".

Dracane · December 2015

The Meta is not strong, because we make it strong. It's strong, because it's strong

The Meta is the way to go for the best results and Dual wield offers by far the best results.

Jitterbug · December 2015

Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?

Dracane · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?

Yes, the devs created the Meta by making something clearly stronger.

Jitterbug · December 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?

Yes, the devs created the Meta by making something clearly stronger.

I could continue arguing, but having thought about it I think I realize I was just in the wrong actually. I'll bow down. You guys are right, it made no sense to write what I did.

daemonios · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?

You can keep talking about meta. The only thing that matters to me here is that a magicka builds gets higher damage equipping a weapon, not due to any weapon skills, but simply because of poorly thought-out base damage and passives.

Dracane · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Yeah yeah, I know guys. My point was just that if you really enjoy using a staff more nothing is stopping you. I realize that the big pot of spell power is hard to turn down, and I sure didn't, but with weaving, and the added sustain, my DPS in normal play hovers around the same number with DW and staff.
I'm just trying to make a case for not pigeon holing our selves. You do realize who creates the meta, no?

Yes, the devs created the Meta by making something clearly stronger.

I could continue arguing, but having thought about it I think I realize I was just in the wrong actually. I'll bow down. You guys are right, it made no sense to write what I did.

Noooo, it's alright

Please have your opinion.