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is armor useful in pvp?
Torbschka
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Hey guys,
im thinking about either getting arena master or reactive set for pvp, well, im just curious: is armor any useful in pvp? So i mean, if i have like 30k armor / magic resist, am I somewhat tanky without blocking, is 30k armor "same" like, lets say, 15% damage reduction or anything?
Or will I stillg et melted, bceause every1 has armor penetration etc.?
thanks guys, I just dont know if armor master for a "tanky-dmg-build" is useful or not
im thinking about either getting arena master or reactive set for pvp, well, im just curious: is armor any useful in pvp? So i mean, if i have like 30k armor / magic resist, am I somewhat tanky without blocking, is 30k armor "same" like, lets say, 15% damage reduction or anything?
Or will I stillg et melted, bceause every1 has armor penetration etc.?
thanks guys, I just dont know if armor master for a "tanky-dmg-build" is useful or not
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Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think 35k armor is like 50% physical damage reduction, but it's up to you and your personal preferences to decide whether it's "worth it". An issue with wearing heavy armor is the lack of regeneration of either magicka or stamina and a loss of straight up outgoing damage. The benefit is more survivability.
Personally, I prefer a raw damage output, but I know others feel differently.0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone with a Maul is going to ignore 20% of your armor. Anyone with 100 CP into piercing is going to ignore another 25% of your armor. Anyone with a Major Fracture debuff is going to reduce your armor even further. Anyone with a sharpened weapon is going to raise their base penetration.
Basically, forget about stacking armor in PvP right now. The opportunity cost is too damn high for the effective mitigation you will end up with.
Edited by Xeven on December 4, 2015 2:51PM5 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Anyone with a Maul is going to ignore 20% of your armor. Anyone with 100 CP into piercing is going to ignore another 25% of your armor. Anyone with a Major Fracture debuff is going to reduce your armor even further. Anyone with a sharpened weapon is going to raise their base penetration.
Basically, forget about stacking armor in PvP right now. The opportunity cost is too damn high for the effective mitigation you will end up with.
Pretty much this, for example my light armor templar has
15% spell penetration from cp passives
5500 spell pen from light armor passives
18% spell pen from nirnhoned swords
And I sometimes use purifying light for major armor debuff
Basically out of 30k resistance, 6k is gone immediately, then 5k is being penetrated from light armor passives, then I've got 37% from raw stats to go through your armor.
Or a medium armor user with dual sharpened maces has a base penetration or 32%, then add in just 18% from cp and 50% of your armor is being ignored.
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Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sadly with the balancing issue so to speak armor sets are useful but the actual armor no. From players having 50%+ penetration to damage shields being clearly broken.... it's just a whole lot of mess with armor in pvp right now.0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have to agree with every else regarding the value of armour at present.
I paid a token gesture to passive mitigation and went heavily into regens instead.
Is health regen more valuable than passive mitigation currently ?
I think so.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Have to agree with every else regarding the value of armour at present.
I paid a token gesture to passive mitigation and went heavily into regens instead.
Is health regen more valuable than passive mitigation currently ?
I think so.
Sound advice. The armor sets passives, and the armor passives themselves are the value. The armor ratings really don't matter.
As above, with so many passives (at no cost to damage or regen or anything, just pure benefit) decreasing armor rating, you end up losing damage for no reward.
Threads before go into the specifics of why, basically any benefit given by heavy armor can be achieved by light or medium armor. With a cap on resistance, light and medium armor end up benefiting you just as much resist.
Then you have how heavily slanted offensive attacks are. Even with max armor and no penetration, a single WB can deal 5k damage easily, that's at minimum 17% health. That's after mitigation! You may think 6 wbs is easy to deal with, but you can guarantee 2 of those to CC, more if the wb player is timing well.
Also, why would you want to give up stamina or magicka regen for health regen (armor passives) when stamina and magicka both give a higher survivability. As magicka has wards tied into it, it also usually provides healing spells at greater strength, and stamina has CC break, block, and dodge roll all imperative to survival.
I guess to sum up, you give up way too much utility aiming for resist over resource.0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Also, why would you want to give up stamina or magicka regen for health regen (armor passives) when stamina and magicka both give a higher survivability. As magicka has wards tied into it, it also usually provides healing spells at greater strength, and stamina has CC break, block, and dodge roll all imperative to survival.
I guess to sum up, you give up way too much utility aiming for resist over resource.
Only hardened ward is a viable shield in PVP as all shields are reduced 50% with out reducing the cost so you're spending 3k magicking for 3.5k shield that is gone in 1 hit. In the case of Blazing Shield the damage return is laugh able as well where Igneous Shield still gives a buff, though a weak one since healing is nerfed as well.
You have to stack 2 or more shields (which takes the place of other abilities) to have viable shields and still not enough reason to put points into bastion, unless you're a sorc. (25% of 4k is 1k ...25% of 12k is 3k.)
But all sound advice. Essentially high damage, high mobility is the name of the game unless your looking to do mass group PVP in which case armor/spell resist is even less valuable. Damage > mitigation and healing ... hence DK and Templars complaints.
Hell even in PVE tanks are getting away from heavy armor + sword and board and many groups are running with an extra dps rather then a "tank." It would be one thing if they were countering with mitigation, class skills like debuffs and shields, but It's mostly just raw damage and some mobility. 2 things that "tanks" don't typically do.0 -
glavius✭✭✭✭✭Armor is very useful. Champ Armor penetration only gives 3% at 100 points. Dont ever trust tooltips in eso....0
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hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fundamentally there is no balance between penetration potential from the attacker against the Reinforced trait of Armor.
If Reinforced would have the Armor Resistance values to counter Penetration at least PVP would be balanced.
There is however a big disconnect between PVP and PVE: The NPC's in PVE do not penetrate !
So simply increasing the Reinforced trait to much higher values (for PVP balance) would make HA OP in PVE.
Whereby noted that even in PVE the benefit of the Armor Resistance is underwhelming. And HA for certain a weak choice.
The simplest way I see to get out of this mess is to have an Armor trait countering Penetration directly instead of increasing Armor Resistance.
It would for example work if it has the same structure as the Impenetrable trait. Per trait on an gold Armor piece you get 10% reduction of all Armor penetrating effects.
That would balance PVP much better.
The Reinforced trait should IMO anyway be increased from 16% to something like 20-25%.
purely to make HA more viable, also in PVE.
Edited by hrothbern on December 5, 2015 8:47AM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU2 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭
The Reinforced trait should IMO anyway be increased from 16% to something like 20-25%.
purely to make HA more viable, also in PVE.
Wouldn't it be more beneficial for HA as a whole to have increased armor values rather then increasing reinforced trait?
They seem to want light/medium/heavy to be scaled off each other though, so this would make all armor values rise which would cause a nerfing of Stamina DPS. I'm a magick user so WOOT!
If you had more armor across all Hvy armor users and the reinforced values remained the same then reinforced would improve or you could use other Traits to try to improve your dps which is rather low compared DPS builds.
Hvy armor needs some love though. Tanks is dying and no one wants to be one as it's strictly a group dungeon build (crap in PVP, VSA, and even IC) and more and more groups are working around tanks.Edited by Essiaga on December 5, 2015 3:15PM0 -
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭remove resistance caps
let tanks actually tank
There is no wep dmg cap
There is no spell dmg cap
Why have resistance cap?
Also remove 5k HP from battle spirit. If people wanna build glass cannon dont give them free HP to compensate.Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.2 -
TheNephilimCrow✭✭✭I think it's always been recommended to run 5 of one armor trait and 1 each of the other two.
5 H, 1 M and 1 L for example.
I would recommend that you make the pieces of armor that give you the most Armor Value your heavy pieces and second highest armor value a medium piece and the lowest your light piece. It will help minimalize the AV you lose.PSN, Youtube & Twitch: TheNephilimCrow
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Steel_Brightblade✭✭✭✭Got an interesting death log tip the other that its either wrong, overly vague or means you may as well go pvp naked. It said "when you are marked your opponent ignores your armour."0
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Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep in mind with caps, you can often go over, and that can often be useful when facing opponents who pierce specific kinds of stats like resist or defense
I love heavy armor. Really getting into sheild/one hand too. The problem is in pvp is that it is hard to strike a balance between maxing out your defensive stats and increasing your damage.Edited by Cathexis on December 7, 2015 1:33PMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no balance between damage and armor. Pump your damage as high as possible.
For defense:
If you're a NB, cloak.
If you're a sorc, bolt.
If you're a DK (magicka), get rekt.
If you're a stam DK, WB-->take flight one hit kills.
If you're a mag Templar, spammmmmmm BoL.2 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭There is no balance between damage and armor. Pump your damage as high as possible.
For defense:
If you're a NB, cloak.
If you're a sorc, bolt.
If you're a DK (magicka), get rekt.
If you're a stam DK, WB-->take flight one hit kills.
If you're a mag Templar, spammmmmmm BoL.
If you're a stam Templar, ?0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no balance between damage and armor. Pump your damage as high as possible.
For defense:
If you're a NB, cloak.
If you're a sorc, bolt.
If you're a DK (magicka), get rekt.
If you're a stam DK, WB-->take flight one hit kills.
If you're a mag Templar, spammmmmmm BoL.
Quoted for the truth. And I want to add - if you are a stamina templar - get rect too.Because I can!0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭There is no balance between damage and armor. Pump your damage as high as possible.
For defense:
If you're a NB, cloak.
If you're a sorc, bolt.
If you're a DK (magicka), get rekt.
If you're a stam DK, WB-->take flight one hit kills.
If you're a mag Templar, spammmmmmm BoL.
Quoted for the truth. And I want to add - if you are a stamina templar - get rect too.
I knew it... xD0
