Vet rank removal?

Uriel_Nocturne · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

At the moment, the way they're looking at the CP levels for gear is that 160 = VR16.

So basically those with higher CP will still be restricted to VR16 gear even with 500 CP? That leaves a huge hole between 160 CP and 500 CP, as far as gear is concerned.

Yes.

The cap they're putting in place is a "spending" cap. As in; you can only spend a certain number of those Cp's you've earned, but they're not stopping you from earning more CP past that. You can still earn CP, and have a massive "bank" of CP'd just waiting for the next cap raise.

Therefore; that huge gulf between new players and seasoned players will still be there as those seasoned players will always have a huge bank of Cp's ready to apply to the constellations as soon as the cap is raised.

New players will still be grinding and grinding, trying to close that gap, but the seasoned players will just be ever adding onto that bank of spare CP's.

Basically; everyone championing the removal of Vet Ranks is really championing the renaming of the system, and Zeni making the inexorable grind a bit more visible for what it is.

This is nothing more than a band-aid to appease a very vocal minority, and to apply some cover-up to a leveling system that sorely needs some in-depth work.

Even the "catch-up" mechanic that Zeni instituted a month back will only carry new players so far. To think that they'll ever get anywhere close to the number of CP's that the veteran players have accumulated is a naivety born of not understanding how percentages work. Sure; you gain CP's at a lightning-pace once you hit lvl 50, but once you get within a certain number of the average amount of CP's that the seasoned players have attained, that CP gain will drastically slow down.

And then the gulf between "end-game hardcore players" and new players will still remain. The new players will have to grind twice as hard for twice as long if they're ever going to close that CP gap.

The Veteran Ranks just need to stay in the game. There's really no good reason to remove them.

Ruben · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

LostRedden wrote: »

I say just keep the veteran ranks in the game as is. They're not really fixing anything, they're just repackaging. *shrugs* Just how I see it though.

Just makes me wonder if they had been calling Champion Points "Veteran Points" instead, if you'd still have these complaints about VR. Because, as you said, all it is is repackaging the same concept. But because some people choose to believe it is something different, they'll like it... until reality sets in.

Imagine a different world where you can have 8 different characters in your account.

Are you done?

Ok, now imagine having I don't know, let's say... 4 max level characters. Now the level is raised from VR16 to VR18! What happens?

Before: You go on each character and grind each and every single one of them from VR16 to VR18.
After: Do you have at least 180 Champion points? All your characters are still max level and/or can equip top level gear. You don't? Do the grind once and they will all be max level.

One day, you people will see how this will change things.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

At the moment, the way they're looking at the CP levels for gear is that 160 = VR16.

So basically those with higher CP will still be restricted to VR16 gear even with 500 CP? That leaves a huge hole between 160 CP and 500 CP, as far as gear is concerned.

Yes.

The cap they're putting in place is a "spending" cap. As in; you can only spend a certain number of those Cp's you've earned, but they're not stopping you from earning more CP past that. You can still earn CP, and have a massive "bank" of CP'd just waiting for the next cap raise.

Therefore; that huge gulf between new players and seasoned players will still be there as those seasoned players will always have a huge bank of Cp's ready to apply to the constellations as soon as the cap is raised.

New players will still be grinding and grinding, trying to close that gap, but the seasoned players will just be ever adding onto that bank of spare CP's.

Basically; everyone championing the removal of Vet Ranks is really championing the renaming of the system, and Zeni making the inexorable grind a bit more visible for what it is.

This is nothing more than a band-aid to appease a very vocal minority, and to apply some cover-up to a leveling system that sorely needs some in-depth work.

Even the "catch-up" mechanic that Zeni instituted a month back will only carry new players so far. To think that they'll ever get anywhere close to the number of CP's that the veteran players have accumulated is a naivety born of not understanding how percentages work. Sure; you gain CP's at a lightning-pace once you hit lvl 50, but once you get within a certain number of the average amount of CP's that the seasoned players have attained, that CP gain will drastically slow down.

And then the gulf between "end-game hardcore players" and new players will still remain. The new players will have to grind twice as hard for twice as long if they're ever going to close that CP gap.

The Veteran Ranks just need to stay in the game. There's really no good reason to remove them.

i agree with most of what you just said in the above but whether or not VR are removed there will still be that CP gap. and with that i do agree that they need some work with the percentages. maybe increase it once cap is hit then slow it down once the cp start to bank

ADarklore · December 2015

Ruben wrote: »

Imagine a different world where you can have 8 different characters in your account.

Are you done?

Ok, now imagine having I don't know, let's say... 4 max level characters. Now the level is raised from VR16 to VR18! What happens?

Before: You go on each character and grind each and every single one of them from VR16 to VR18.
After: Do you have at least 180 Champion points? All your characters are still max level and/or can equip top level gear. You don't? Do the grind once and they will all be max level.

One day, you people will see how this will change things.

WHAT exactly does this have to do with removing VR? They could have simply added this feature while keeping the VR system as is.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

There's a bunch of topics on this that can be found.

But the short version is;

Vet ranks being removed sometime next year, champion points replacing them as the progression system, higher level items will be champion level based as opposed to VR level based.

i heard that they were looking into implementing it sometime in first quarter. im just more curious that if our current gear will be updated to work with the new system or will be rendered obsolete

No, they do not plan to remove then Q1. There is still a lot of kinks to work out before they can do this and it's going to take them a good while. I wouldn't expect any sooner than Q3 if anything.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Ruben wrote: »

Imagine a different world where you can have 8 different characters in your account.

Are you done?

Ok, now imagine having I don't know, let's say... 4 max level characters. Now the level is raised from VR16 to VR18! What happens?

Before: You go on each character and grind each and every single one of them from VR16 to VR18.
After: Do you have at least 180 Champion points? All your characters are still max level and/or can equip top level gear. You don't? Do the grind once and they will all be max level.

One day, you people will see how this will change things.

hes saying that with the current system you will have to level individual character levels each time the cap is raised but with the cp system you can level your cp accross the board using one character

LostRedden · December 2015

Ruben wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

LostRedden wrote: »

I say just keep the veteran ranks in the game as is. They're not really fixing anything, they're just repackaging. *shrugs* Just how I see it though.

Just makes me wonder if they had been calling Champion Points "Veteran Points" instead, if you'd still have these complaints about VR. Because, as you said, all it is is repackaging the same concept. But because some people choose to believe it is something different, they'll like it... until reality sets in.

Imagine a different world where you can have 8 different characters in your account.

Are you done?

Ok, now imagine having I don't know, let's say... 4 max level characters. Now the level is raised from VR16 to VR18! What happens?

Before: You go on each character and grind each and every single one of them from VR16 to VR18.
After: Do you have at least 180 Champion points? All your characters are still max level and/or can equip top level gear. You don't? Do the grind once and they will all be max level.

One day, you people will see how this will change things.

Touché good sir. I see from that perspective where it's a good thing.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

There's a bunch of topics on this that can be found.

But the short version is;

Vet ranks being removed sometime next year, champion points replacing them as the progression system, higher level items will be champion level based as opposed to VR level based.

i heard that they were looking into implementing it sometime in first quarter. im just more curious that if our current gear will be updated to work with the new system or will be rendered obsolete

No, they do not plan to remove then Q1. There is still a lot of kinks to work out before they can do this and it's going to take them a good while. I wouldn't expect any sooner than Q3 if anything.

thats understandable, im sure that there will be plenty of content to keep us busy till that change

wayfarerx · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Ruben wrote: »

Imagine a different world where you can have 8 different characters in your account.

Are you done?

Ok, now imagine having I don't know, let's say... 4 max level characters. Now the level is raised from VR16 to VR18! What happens?

Before: You go on each character and grind each and every single one of them from VR16 to VR18.
After: Do you have at least 180 Champion points? All your characters are still max level and/or can equip top level gear. You don't? Do the grind once and they will all be max level.

One day, you people will see how this will change things.

WHAT exactly does this have to do with removing VR? They could have simply added this feature while keeping the VR system as is.

They did add this feature, it's called the champion system. Endgame progression shared between all characters on an account. The last step is removing the now-defunct VR system.

What exactly would they add to VR that would have the same effect without being exactly what they are planning now? Veteran ranks shared between alts? What's the difference and why do you care?

ADarklore · December 2015

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

hes saying that with the current system you will have to level individual character levels each time the cap is raised but with the cp system you can level your cp accross the board using one character

Ah... I get it... because XP determines VR now instead of CP. I do see his point.

Islyn · December 2015

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

There's a bunch of topics on this that can be found.

But the short version is;

Vet ranks being removed sometime next year, champion points replacing them as the progression system, higher level items will be champion level based as opposed to VR level based.

i heard that they were looking into implementing it sometime in first quarter. im just more curious that if our current gear will be updated to work with the new system or will be rendered obsolete

the best approximation so far is v14 gear like Martial Knowledge = 160cp to wear. V16 = 501 Max. So, v14 will not go above 160 and gear will be maxed at 501.

This is mainly conjecture, so don't put all your tomatoes in one basket (Or buy morag tong for 100k per piece because it'll be stronk later, for an example from stormhaven earlier today).

Supersomething · December 2015

I find it interesting that people criticizing those who support the removal of VR are countering with don't play MMO's if you do not like level grinding or acting like VR is worthwhile somehow. The VR system from its conception was an entirely awkward shoehorned form of progression that was really just another leveling system to make up for lack of endgame when the game first launched.

The Champion Point system works better and actually makes sense in regards to end game progression because of the ability to actually progress and customize your character. In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

There is a reason why this game went free to play so quickly and the VR system is certainly among them. I played this game in early access and through launch and left when I realized the quagmire that is VR leveling I would have to wade through and the utter meaningless purpose of it. I came back just last week actually, even reinstated my sub, because of the eventual removal of VR and because of the Champion Point system.

Point being is that the VR system is not widely popular because it serves no purpose other then being a tremendous time sink while at the same time providing nothing back to the player of real value. The Champion Point system does everything the VR system cannot, and that is why VR is and should be replaced.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

I find it interesting that people criticizing those who support the removal of VR are countering with don't play MMO's if you do not like level grinding or acting like VR is worthwhile somehow. The VR system from its conception was an entirely awkward shoehorned form of progression that was really just another leveling system to make up for lack of endgame when the game first launched.

The Champion Point system works better and actually makes sense in regards to end game progression because of the ability to actually progress and customize your character. In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

There is a reason why this game went free to play so quickly and the VR system is certainly among them. I played this game in early access and through launch and left when I realized the quagmire that is VR leveling I would have to wade through and the utter meaningless purpose of it. I came back just last week actually, even reinstated my sub, because of the eventual removal of VR and because of the Champion Point system.

Point being is that the VR system is not widely popular because it serves no purpose other then being a tremendous time sink while at the same time providing nothing back to the player of real value. The Champion Point system does everything the VR system cannot, and that is why VR is and should be replaced.

i applaude you good sir.

wayfarerx · December 2015

Islyn wrote: »

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

There's a bunch of topics on this that can be found.

But the short version is;

Vet ranks being removed sometime next year, champion points replacing them as the progression system, higher level items will be champion level based as opposed to VR level based.

i heard that they were looking into implementing it sometime in first quarter. im just more curious that if our current gear will be updated to work with the new system or will be rendered obsolete

the best approximation so far is v14 gear like Martial Knowledge = 160cp to wear. V16 = 501 Max. So, v14 will not go above 160 and gear will be maxed at 501.

This is mainly conjecture, so don't put all your tomatoes in one basket (Or buy morag tong for 100k per piece because it'll be stronk later, for an example from stormhaven earlier today).

They specifically said they won't be putting any gear at the CP cap for a long time. The actual best approximation is that VR 14 gear == 140 CP, VR 16 gear == 160 CP... since that is what they actually said.

Ruben · December 2015

Islyn wrote: »

the best approximation so far is v14 gear like Martial Knowledge = 160cp to wear. V16 = 501 Max. So, v14 will not go above 160 and gear will be maxed at 501.

This is mainly conjecture, so don't put all your tomatoes in one basket (Or buy morag tong for 100k per piece because it'll be stronk later, for an example from stormhaven earlier today).

They said that VR16 items would be CP160 and there would not be a sudden jump from CP160 to CP300 or CP400.

ADarklore · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

i think well be alotted 49 attribute points as apposed to 64. thats my guess, i may be wrong so dont take it as a fact lol

Supersomething · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

As far as I am aware you will earn 1 attribute point and skill point per 10 CP levels until 160 CP.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

As far as I am aware you will earn 1 attribute point and skill point per 10 CP levels until 160 CP.

was that something they mentioned or will the attribute points that went with the veteran ranks be removed also?

Supersomething · December 2015

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

As far as I am aware you will earn 1 attribute point and skill point per 10 CP levels until 160 CP.

was that something they mentioned or will the attribute points that went with the veteran ranks be removed also?

The attribute points that you earn per 10 CP make up for the removal of VR 1-16. In other words you are keeping the attribute points you earned when VR leveling, they are just earned every 10 CP levels up to CP level 160 which would still equal 16 points.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

Ok, so when they remove VR, I take it future attribute points are then going to be CP based? Because if there are no 'VR levels' as a reference point to assign attributes, then they must be working on specific 'CP levels' which will assign attributes?!?

As far as I am aware you will earn 1 attribute point and skill point per 10 CP levels until 160 CP.

was that something they mentioned or will the attribute points that went with the veteran ranks be removed also?

The attribute points that you earn per 10 CP make up for the removal of VR 1-16. In other words you are keeping the attribute points you earned when VR leveling, they are just earned every 10 CP levels up to CP level 160 which would still equal 16 points.

That's sounds even better than what I originally thought was going to happen

Pheefs · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

So how will this work with crafting materials exactly? Right now materials craft for various regular and VR levels, but once VR is removed, then how will crafting material levels be determined?

Crafting Level by number of champion points, so for example you'd have to have over 160 CP to make the top level gear.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

In contrast the Veteran Rank system currently gives you 16 more attribute points, gates gear, and serves no other purpose beyond that.

The attribute points that you earn per 10 CP make up for the removal of VR 1-16. In other words you are keeping the attribute points you earned when VR leveling, they are just earned every 10 CP levels up to CP level 160 which would still equal 16 points.

Also do you think they will increase the amount of xp needed to go from 1-50. I'm asking because I wanna level 2 Alts to v1 and leave them till the vr are taken out. Then technically they will be max level without the grind

Niaver · December 2015

Right now they think that you will get your attribute points with the help of achievment system. You just need to find the info which developers gave us and dig it through. Then you'll understand, why these changes are good.
It's pretty much the same as it is now, but you don't need to go vr1-vr16 for all your alts. I'm playing only one character right now, but after ZOS implements the new system, i'll start new character i suppose.

I also hope they'll make all "vet-zones" scalable so i can freely travel after lvl50.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Pheefs wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So how will this work with crafting materials exactly? Right now materials craft for various regular and VR levels, but once VR is removed, then how will crafting material levels be determined?

Crafting Level by number of champion points, so for example you'd have to have over 160 CP to make the top level gear.

Is that to just simply make it or to wear it?

Supersomething · December 2015

No clue, though I highly doubt they would since Champion Level progression gets slightly longer per level gained.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

No clue, though I highly doubt they would since Champion Level progression gets slightly longer per level gained.

That would be very reasonable in my opinion

Ruben · December 2015

Supersomething wrote: »

No clue, though I highly doubt they would since Champion Level progression gets slightly longer per level gained.

When the cap is raised, the XP required will be automatically lowered.

wigglesgaming26 · December 2015

Ruben wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

No clue, though I highly doubt they would since Champion Level progression gets slightly longer per level gained.

When the cap is raised, the XP required will be automatically lowered.

So in other word reaching level 50 (max level) will not change?

Ruben · December 2015

wigglesgaming26 wrote: »

Ruben wrote: »

Supersomething wrote: »

No clue, though I highly doubt they would since Champion Level progression gets slightly longer per level gained.

When the cap is raised, the XP required will be automatically lowered.

So in other word reaching level 50 (max level) will not change?

I was talking about the cost of Champion Points. Once the cap goes from 501 to something higher, all costs will be reduced.

The XP required to go from lvl 1 to 50 will most probably be exactly the same as it is now.