Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• [IN PROGRESS] PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [IN PROGRESS] PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
ZOS ... Is this the reason for AOE caps and the removal of Blinding Light (Templar Nerf)?
Essiaga
✭✭✭✭
@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_RichLambert, @wrobel
Where AOE caps added and Blinding Flashes removed for the same reason the 666 Deer were removed from Cyro?
Brian Wheeler stated (with the assistance of his white board) on ESO Live that all the additional calculations from skills being unlocked at the time of the lighting patch are the cause of lag issues in Cyro, but not the lighting patch its self. Those would be Alliance Skills, Undaunted skills, Mages Guild Skills, and Fighters Guild skills. That must be why BWL seems to performs better then Vet. That and the limited CP.
Why not just remove these skills (and reintroduce them later) rather then screwing with class skills and play the juggling act for the rest of the games existence? Those are also the skills, imo, that unbalance the classes as well. ZOS added Legerdemainan passives ... next we'll have Dark Brotherhood skills coming that are just going to add to the mix. Hence the adjustment to DOTs and AOE skills, etc.
From the 2 Guild trees only Expert Hunter, Entropy and the 2 ultimate are typically used in PVP. Of the Alliance skills only Vigor and Magica Det are typically used out side the mass groups. Why not just consolidate these trees and reduce the passives, nerfing the ball groups in the process?
Performance and balance need to be priority 1. Class skills should be sacred above and beyond all other skills as they are the IDENTITY of the character.
Champion points and non class skils and passives can and should be sacrificed to fix the lag. Dumb down the game for the sake of all of us and then reintroduce stuff as you work things out. Siege should not replace skills in PVP to buy time for more tinkering.
Where AOE caps added and Blinding Flashes removed for the same reason the 666 Deer were removed from Cyro?
Brian Wheeler stated (with the assistance of his white board) on ESO Live that all the additional calculations from skills being unlocked at the time of the lighting patch are the cause of lag issues in Cyro, but not the lighting patch its self. Those would be Alliance Skills, Undaunted skills, Mages Guild Skills, and Fighters Guild skills. That must be why BWL seems to performs better then Vet. That and the limited CP.
Why not just remove these skills (and reintroduce them later) rather then screwing with class skills and play the juggling act for the rest of the games existence? Those are also the skills, imo, that unbalance the classes as well. ZOS added Legerdemainan passives ... next we'll have Dark Brotherhood skills coming that are just going to add to the mix. Hence the adjustment to DOTs and AOE skills, etc.
From the 2 Guild trees only Expert Hunter, Entropy and the 2 ultimate are typically used in PVP. Of the Alliance skills only Vigor and Magica Det are typically used out side the mass groups. Why not just consolidate these trees and reduce the passives, nerfing the ball groups in the process?
Performance and balance need to be priority 1. Class skills should be sacred above and beyond all other skills as they are the IDENTITY of the character.
Champion points and non class skils and passives can and should be sacrificed to fix the lag. Dumb down the game for the sake of all of us and then reintroduce stuff as you work things out. Siege should not replace skills in PVP to buy time for more tinkering.
6
-
Essiaga✭✭✭✭... doesn't animation canceling also add to this? More calculation is shorter period of time.3
-
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
you have to admit tho that extra calc for showing it's sent off earlier than intended, recieved earlier, etc adds up when many do it.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.1 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭
you have to admit tho that extra calc for showing it's sent off earlier than intended, received earlier, etc adds up when many do it.
I'm all for faster skills or altering their animations to be 1 sec but its also registering a weapon attack and/or bash, bar swap, etc. Maybe its adding up on both ends, client and server. Might be a really small part of it but still.
Those animations are also being loaded, canceled, and loaded faster. I know when camo hunter procts (for me or someone else) I get a glitch as well. I think there are some animations that just are choppy and with canceling it's worse.
Regardless I'm more interested in class skills being nerfed due to performance issues rather then removing Alliance Skills that promote ball group pvp that ZOS says they don't want, etc. Seems like a possible fix is getting rid of Alliance skills. If that doesn't work get rid of guild skills. Then start working them back in as the issue are worked out.
Its been over a year and they just reduced the number of ticks DOTs do which directly effects how many times Burning Light has a chance to proct. Next thing we know Jabs will just be single poke.
Taking Purge away should help with Magicka DKs effectiveness. As would a temporary suspension of the CP system so that it could be rework to not smack crap of them more then all others. Elemental Defender, Thick skin, Spell shield, and Resistance coupled with purge and its no wonder everyone respected Stamina.)
Or what if you make it so siege doesn't deal damage to players? You can shrink the area of calculations way down as no skills travel more then 40ish yards. Seriously I've only experienced large groups using siege on players. Siege is slow and can be over run quickly if you're a small group.
These will directly address the points @ZOS_BrianWheeler made on ESO Live. Rather then changing how everything works and effecting the whole system.1 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Why not just make it so that whoever starts smashing their wrecking blow/ambush/jabs button first wins? That should be really easy to calculate. Oh wait...3 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.1 -
Tors✭✭✭✭✭
No, regardless of animation canceling, all abilities have a 1 second global cooldown where you cannot cast another ability until it is over regardless.
Which explains the ability to have someone hit you with 6 light attacks, 6 wrecking blows and 6 sheild bashes in 3 seconds (obviously).............
Or better the 4 focused aims in 2 seconds .........Better late Than Pregnant....
The shadow cabinet, a group of people who pretend to have jobs they do not actually have
EU PC - Azura's Star
Decimation Elite - Raid Jester2 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.
BS. Its a class skill. It doesn't unbalance the game. Now DW had a similar skill that was done away with as well. They replaced it with steel Tornado - spam-able HUGE AOE execute the breaks stealth in PVP
What did templar get? JamesBeam - The channel/DoT execute that can be interrupted and escaped and has been nerfed 3 times.
Destro staff started to simply stink around that point, while DW started giving more spell damage, and at the time hard caps were removed. That's an entire skill line that all but goes away in vet PVP. Accept maybe in ball groups.
Alliance skills unbalance the game. Having every class purge and vigor even when a stamplar can't utilize an ENTIRE skill line that's dedicated to healing ... unless there are corpses on the ground of course.
CP unbalanced the game. Ask a Magicka DK, but don't ask Magicka sorc or Stam builds, though. They like winning and don't want any more competition.
It was a hard calc and AOE so they nerfed Templars. It wasn't replaced with a more simple buff like Evasion, or a Debuff like Maim, or both. They just took it away and increased healing and damage ... then nerf healing and damage and shields in PVP. They are working in circles rather then moving forward but the Templar and DK don't have the mobility so they're falling farther and farther behind with every adjustment they make to balance.
Changed to classes unbalanced the game, and still continue too.0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Why not just make it so that whoever starts smashing their wrecking blow/ambush/jabs button first wins? That should be really easy to calculate. Oh wait...
WB wins over jabs in a spaming contest. Does more damage, WAY stronger double CC (knockdown AND stun), shorter duration, and can't be interrupted. WB is OP which is why Stamplars and even night blades still utilize it dispite having class option. DK stam-whip would be the same things. Classes need stam attacks (like whips and jabs) but WB also needs a bit of nerf.
Take a way the knock down and Empower. Then when you CC break you won't have go through the knock down, get up, and break animations before getting CC immunity which often causes you be be CC while waiting for CC immunity to apply. It will still hit super hard and synergize well with Executioner. But the 2handed tree doesn't seem like an option for stam builds. Its seem like it IS the stam build. (Rally, Crit Charg, WB, Executioner).
Of course if the templar could cast Blinding Flashes (or even Evasion/Maim) or had an OK shield there would be at least a chance.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.
BS. Its a class skill. It doesn't unbalance the game. Now DW had a similar skill that was done away with as well. They replaced it with steel Tornado - spam-able HUGE AOE execute the breaks stealth in PVP
What did templar get? JamesBeam - The channel/DoT execute that can be interrupted and escaped and has been nerfed 3 times.
Destro staff started to simply stink around that point, while DW started giving more spell damage, and at the time hard caps were removed. That's an entire skill line that all but goes away in vet PVP. Accept maybe in ball groups.
Alliance skills unbalance the game. Having every class purge and vigor even when a stamplar can't utilize an ENTIRE skill line that's dedicated to healing ... unless there are corpses on the ground of course.
CP unbalanced the game. Ask a Magicka DK, but don't ask Magicka sorc or Stam builds, though. They like winning and don't want any more competition.
It was a hard calc and AOE so they nerfed Templars. It wasn't replaced with a more simple buff like Evasion, or a Debuff like Maim, or both. They just took it away and increased healing and damage ... then nerf healing and damage and shields in PVP. They are working in circles rather then moving forward but the Templar and DK don't have the mobility so they're falling farther and farther behind with every adjustment they make to balance.
Changed to classes unbalanced the game, and still continue too.
It was removed because miss chance was removed. DW got blade cloak, the AOE damage reduction skill, not steel tornado. If you didn't notice the skill before that point then its likely no one used it because it was not as powerful before zos's changes. But miss chances as a whole were removed since it is a pain to balance, either requiring some mobs being completely immune or having very odd resist to an otherwise insanely powerful debuff.0 -
MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.
BS. Its a class skill. It doesn't unbalance the game. Now DW had a similar skill that was done away with as well. They replaced it with steel Tornado - spam-able HUGE AOE execute the breaks stealth in PVP
What did templar get? JamesBeam - The channel/DoT execute that can be interrupted and escaped and has been nerfed 3 times.
Destro staff started to simply stink around that point, while DW started giving more spell damage, and at the time hard caps were removed. That's an entire skill line that all but goes away in vet PVP. Accept maybe in ball groups.
Alliance skills unbalance the game. Having every class purge and vigor even when a stamplar can't utilize an ENTIRE skill line that's dedicated to healing ... unless there are corpses on the ground of course.
CP unbalanced the game. Ask a Magicka DK, but don't ask Magicka sorc or Stam builds, though. They like winning and don't want any more competition.
It was a hard calc and AOE so they nerfed Templars. It wasn't replaced with a more simple buff like Evasion, or a Debuff like Maim, or both. They just took it away and increased healing and damage ... then nerf healing and damage and shields in PVP. They are working in circles rather then moving forward but the Templar and DK don't have the mobility so they're falling farther and farther behind with every adjustment they make to balance.
Changed to classes unbalanced the game, and still continue too.
It was removed because miss chance was removed. DW got blade cloak, the AOE damage reduction skill, not steel tornado. If you didn't notice the skill before that point then its likely no one used it because it was not as powerful before zos's changes. But miss chances as a whole were removed since it is a pain to balance, either requiring some mobs being completely immune or having very odd resist to an otherwise insanely powerful debuff.
Theres still a very low level set (can't remember what it was though) that has the 100% blindness effect. I have found a couple of pieces just before ICI have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Akatosh Blessing set, my tank is still running it (even now that its outleveled) because of that. I'm guessing it was forgotten about, like most sets that only fall in a single non-vet level range.1 -
MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Akatosh Blessing set, my tank is still running it (even now that its outleveled) because of that. I'm guessing it was forgotten about, like most sets that only fall in a single non-vet level range.
That's right, I'm just hoping they keep it in and add the ability to upgrade the level of sets...I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.1 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭
No, regardless of animation canceling, all abilities have a 1 second global cooldown where you cannot cast another ability until it is over regardless.
Which explains the ability to have someone hit you with 6 light attacks, 6 wrecking blows and 6 sheild bashes in 3 seconds (obviously).............
Or better the 4 focused aims in 2 seconds .........
That's lag, not animation cancelling, lol1 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.
BS. Its a class skill. It doesn't unbalance the game. Now DW had a similar skill that was done away with as well. They replaced it with steel Tornado - spam-able HUGE AOE execute the breaks stealth in PVP
What did Templar get? JamesBeam - The channel/DoT execute that can be interrupted and escaped and has been nerfed 3 times.
Destro staff started to simply stink around that point, while DW started giving more spell damage, and at the time hard caps were removed. That's an entire skill line that all but goes away in vet PVP. Accept maybe in ball groups.
Alliance skills unbalance the game. Having every class purge and vigor even when a stamplar can't utilize an ENTIRE skill line that's dedicated to healing ... unless there are corpses on the ground of course.
CP unbalanced the game. Ask a Magicka DK, but don't ask Magicka sorc or Stam builds, though. They like winning and don't want any more competition.
It was a hard calc and AOE so they nerfed Templars. It wasn't replaced with a more simple buff like Evasion, or a Debuff like Maim, or both. They just took it away and increased healing and damage ... then nerf healing and damage and shields in PVP. They are working in circles rather then moving forward but the Templar and DK don't have the mobility so they're falling farther and farther behind with every adjustment they make to balance.
Changed to classes unbalanced the game, and still continue too.
It was removed because miss chance was removed. DW got blade cloak, the AOE damage reduction skill, not steel tornado. If you didn't notice the skill before that point then its likely no one used it because it was not as powerful before zos's changes. But miss chances as a whole were removed since it is a pain to balance, either requiring some mobs being completely immune or having very odd resist to an otherwise insanely powerful debuff.
I did cite the wrong skill. It was replaced with Blade Cloak. Still some mitigation there, though just AOE. Anyone use this skill?
There were and are a lot of things mobs were and are immune to. Lots of CC simply didn't work. As I recall fear didn't really work at all and today is the most powerful CC in PVP, but many mobs are still immune. We're as Blind did work and then it was gone. It balanced out with the utter lack of DPS the Templar class did at the time and compared to the top dog in PVP continues to do. It hurt the class and ZOS never tried to fix it. They've increased healing over all and nerf it in PVP. They nerfed our shields in pvp with out recuducint the cost. They replaced Blinding with a single target channel/dot/execute.
Why not reduce the enemies damage with Maim, and AOE debuff? Mass Hysteria gets it on top of Fear and snare.
Seems like a lot of AOEs effects have been nerfed and are either not used or removed and the lag is still there. Templar and DKs ... Casualties of the war I guess.0 -
Essiaga✭✭✭✭
No, regardless of animation canceling, all abilities have a 1 second global cooldown where you cannot cast another ability until it is over regardless.
Which explains the ability to have someone hit you with 6 light attacks, 6 wrecking blows and 6 sheild bashes in 3 seconds (obviously).............
Or better the 4 focused aims in 2 seconds .........
That's lag, not animation cancelling, lol
WB applies damage, knock down and stun, and empower. This skill creates a glitch for me regardless if its me or someone else casting. Perhaps its to many calculations for the servers to handled and should be replaced with crappy skills too.
I think you're exaggerating but its not hard to get off 3 light attacks, 3 WB, and 3 shield in time it takes to pay just the WBs animations.
How does lag cause more damage in less time and what is that lag caused by?Edited by Essiaga on December 9, 2015 11:29PM0 -
Ryuho✭✭✭✭
No, regardless of animation canceling, all abilities have a 1 second global cooldown where you cannot cast another ability until it is over regardless.
Which explains the ability to have someone hit you with 6 light attacks, 6 wrecking blows and 6 sheild bashes in 3 seconds (obviously).............
Or better the 4 focused aims in 2 seconds .........
That's lag, not animation cancelling, lol
WB applies damage, knock down and stun, and empower. This skill creates a glitch for me regardless if its me or someone else casting. Perhaps its to many calculations for the servers to handled and should be replaced with crappy skills too.
I think you're exaggerating but its not hard to get off 3 light attacks, 3 WB, and 3 shield in time it takes to pay just the WBs animations.
How does lag cause more damage in less time and what is that lag caused by?
WB must be adjusted.. Whats most broken is the range of it!! Sometimes its so hard to predict that u will be hit or not, also u can charge ur heavy attack while casting wrecklin blow, same goes with executioner, its to much dmg with one skill, just sick.. and boom u are hit by wrecklin + heavy att which is empowered in same second.. It should be interruptable like it was b4!The Farron family team (EU)
sorcerer - Rubeus Farron AR31
templar - Selene Farron AR27
nightblade - Ryuho Farron AR25
stamplar - Nura Farron AR10
stamsorcerer - Kitty Farron AR14 (adopted member)
DK - Ryu Farron AR17
RETIRED
CU - next mmo0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blinding flashes was removed because miss chance was not something that could be balanced well in the game.
BS. Its a class skill. It doesn't unbalance the game. Now DW had a similar skill that was done away with as well. They replaced it with steel Tornado - spam-able HUGE AOE execute the breaks stealth in PVP
What did Templar get? JamesBeam - The channel/DoT execute that can be interrupted and escaped and has been nerfed 3 times.
Destro staff started to simply stink around that point, while DW started giving more spell damage, and at the time hard caps were removed. That's an entire skill line that all but goes away in vet PVP. Accept maybe in ball groups.
Alliance skills unbalance the game. Having every class purge and vigor even when a stamplar can't utilize an ENTIRE skill line that's dedicated to healing ... unless there are corpses on the ground of course.
CP unbalanced the game. Ask a Magicka DK, but don't ask Magicka sorc or Stam builds, though. They like winning and don't want any more competition.
It was a hard calc and AOE so they nerfed Templars. It wasn't replaced with a more simple buff like Evasion, or a Debuff like Maim, or both. They just took it away and increased healing and damage ... then nerf healing and damage and shields in PVP. They are working in circles rather then moving forward but the Templar and DK don't have the mobility so they're falling farther and farther behind with every adjustment they make to balance.
Changed to classes unbalanced the game, and still continue too.
It was removed because miss chance was removed. DW got blade cloak, the AOE damage reduction skill, not steel tornado. If you didn't notice the skill before that point then its likely no one used it because it was not as powerful before zos's changes. But miss chances as a whole were removed since it is a pain to balance, either requiring some mobs being completely immune or having very odd resist to an otherwise insanely powerful debuff.
I did cite the wrong skill. It was replaced with Blade Cloak. Still some mitigation there, though just AOE. Anyone use this skill?
There were and are a lot of things mobs were and are immune to. Lots of CC simply didn't work. As I recall fear didn't really work at all and today is the most powerful CC in PVP, but many mobs are still immune. We're as Blind did work and then it was gone. It balanced out with the utter lack of DPS the Templar class did at the time and compared to the top dog in PVP continues to do. It hurt the class and ZOS never tried to fix it. They've increased healing over all and nerf it in PVP. They nerfed our shields in pvp with out recuducint the cost. They replaced Blinding with a single target channel/dot/execute.
Why not reduce the enemies damage with Maim, and AOE debuff? Mass Hysteria gets it on top of Fear and snare.
Seems like a lot of AOEs effects have been nerfed and are either not used or removed and the lag is still there. Templar and DKs ... Casualties of the war I guess.
Lots of players use quick cloak. 20% mitigation against steel tornado, prox det, bats, nova crushes, etc is huge in pvp.0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
No, regardless of animation canceling, all abilities have a 1 second global cooldown where you cannot cast another ability until it is over regardless.
Which explains the ability to have someone hit you with 6 light attacks, 6 wrecking blows and 6 sheild bashes in 3 seconds (obviously).............
Or better the 4 focused aims in 2 seconds .........
That's caused by the lag you (and others) create with their multiple raid groups.
But why am I not surprised that someone from Decimation Elite doesn't even know the slightest bit about the game mechanics?
Anyway, back to topic, I agree OP, fixing performance should be the main priority, but ZoS prefers making small changes to abilities instead of trying out something new (like removing AoE caps) or they just ignore it (like they've done for over a year) and release more unfinished crap.
Lag is here to stay till Cyrodiil is dead.Susano'o
Zerg Squad0
